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2014-15 Performances


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6.0 Season Average Rating
Appearances
35
Goals
10
Assists
4
Yellow cards
2
Status
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Another example hysterical twitter era "journalism", a player doesn't perform 10 points on a few games and his future in the club is instantly "doomed". We are just starting the season and players are just fitting in into the new system.

Mata is going to benefit from having Rooney back, still early days to say he doesn't have a future in the club. Mark Ogden is a clown.
 
I'm surprised at the stick he's getting for yesterday, I thought he did okay. Nothing special, but hardly worthy of the abuse. Its not easy in that midfield against the Prem's best side

He tormented us when we were the leagues best side at Chelsea. He can do a hell of a lot better than what he produced yesterday.
 
Any Chelsea fans/followers care to explain how Mata was one of your best players for two seasons? Not saying he's shite as he is clearly technically excellent, but I just genuinely don't know he was ever effective in the PL. Was the team built around him to an extent that it simply hasn't been or ever will be at United?

He just looks so ill-suited to English football, with regards to his lack of physicality and pace. It takes a pretty special player (the likes of David Silva) to succeed in the PL without being either quick or strong on the ball. It's frustrating too as he seems like a really likeable bloke and it isn't that he isn't putting in the effort.
 
So United have just played their best team performance and suddenly Juan Mata is done now.

Am I missing something here other than the fact Ogden and Jackson are turning the Telegraph and Guardian into rag level press?

If this is to be believed I have a few points to make:

Mata vs Chelsea:

1) He had 91% pass completion. The highest of anyone on the pitch. Continuation of possession and is key to Van Gaal's strategy. Pulling opponents side to side and finding openings.
2) He was always available for an outlet ball - left, right or central. Highest pass combinations to him were from ADM, DB, RVP, AJ and R.
3) His passes were mainly to spread the play. Highest combos from him were to ADM, DB, LS and AJ. A clear move and instruction likely given by the coach.

You know sometimes, to perform better in a team you don't always have to stand out as a goal scoring threat or be the man that plays the crucial final pass. He created 3 chances, sometimes it's just unlucky if an assist is registered or not because it relies on the striker finishing the move. All in all he had a solid game and was the fulcrum of our play being neat and precise, keeping the team moving, creating space and relieving pressure. His energy and movement were superb.

In relation to this Ogden nonsense:

1) Falcao is a far greater player than Rooney so he should be the first one to come back, captain or not.
2) With Mata our team performances have been better/good - a widely accredited comment by LVG and press.
3) Wayne Rooney is yet to display a run of form worthy of starting in an AM role. Right now he should only be in contention for a striker role.
4) There's a young Belgian kid that I'm getting sick to death of people giving a free pass too just because he has "hype". Judging him today and this year, Januzaj has not earned a free go in the team. You cannot blindly have faith in a kid that is failing to produce anything of note at this level. He's been poor for 3/4 of this year and nobody questions it, certainly on here. It's baffling, truly baffling.
5) Has Rooney's pre red card form magically been forgotten? He was awful before it. This captain benefit stuff grates me, if he wasn't English he'd have to earn a starting space again.

I imagine I'll be lynched for comment 4 but it's entirely contextual, it's ok for the press to pick Mata apart but Rooney and Januzaj's failings are so blindingly ignored by all media its ridiculous. Annoying Gary Neville is arguably the biggest culprit of this too.
 
I thought yesterday was his best game of the season when you take the quality of opponent into the equation. He still wasn't great though.
 
He was at least a 6/10 yesterday. Which was pretty much par for the entire team, Fellaini/Smalling aside (with Di Maria worse).

Not really sure why everyone seems to be turning on him. He's been very similar to the entire team this season in general, a couple of 8/10 performances, a couple of 6 or 7/10 performances and the West Brom 5/10 performance. I thought between him and Fellaini we kept Matic/Fabregas well occupied, which in turn limited their usual build up play. We also kept possession quite well, which Mata was a key part of.

He may be dropped for Rooney who will put in the same cluster of performances in the number 10 position and people will then say that Rooney should be up front, with Mata behind and RVP dropped (as was the general consensus 4 games ago). For some reason this forum has the bizarre belief that everyone who isn't playing is much better than those that are playing. It's some kind of strange nostalgic memory block.

As fans we should be championing the fact that we have quality player's like him that are part of our squad, rather than the previous batch of mediocre squad player's like Young, Kagawa, Valencia, Cleverley etc. The only shame of it is that we don't have 60 odd games this season whereby we can make the most of rotating between our attacking players. If we are where we should be next season player's like Mata will be invaluable.
 
Mata vs Chelsea:

1) He had 91% pass completion. The highest of anyone on the pitch. Continuation of possession and is key to Van Gaal's strategy. Pulling opponents side to side and finding openings.
2) He was always available for an outlet ball - left, right or central. Highest pass combinations to him were from ADM, DB, RVP, AJ and R.
3) His passes were mainly to spread the play. Highest combos from him were to ADM, DB, LS and AJ. A clear move and instruction likely given by the coach.

4) He was taken off with 25 minutes of a delicately poised game remaining, and replaced by a rookie 18 year old. That doesn't exactly suggest a great degree of faith in how he was playing from LvG.
 
4) He was taken off with 25 minutes of a delicately poised game remaining, and replaced by a rookie 18 year old. That doesn't exactly suggest a great degree of faith in how he was playing from LvG.

Or we just needed a body further forward and a more direct route given the fact we'd fallen a goal behind in a phase of play where Chelsea simply suffocated our midfield. Tactical in my eyes, apparently not in yours...
 
Loads of fans trying to defend mata now based on seeing fellaini finally start to turn it around. Mata is a wondeful player but his inability to get involved enough is down to a lack of mobility and players that are not mobile or dynamic enough don't usually last long at the elite clubs
 
Or we just needed a body further forward and a more direct route given the fact we'd fallen a goal behind in a phase of play where Chelsea simply suffocated our midfield. Tactical in my eyes, apparently not in yours...

'Tactical' it may have been, but the underlying logic is still that LvG thought we'd have a better chance of scoring with a rookie 18 year old on the pitch than with Mata. Which again, doesn't reflect particularly well on Mata.
 
I imagine I'll be lynched for comment 4 but it's entirely contextual, it's ok for the press to pick Mata apart but Rooney and Januzaj's failings are so blindingly ignored by all media its ridiculous. Annoying Gary Neville is arguably the biggest culprit of this too.

Rooney I'll leave aside, but Januzaj is certainly contextual. How can you ignore the context?

Januzaj is a 19yo with less than 40 senior club appearances to his name. Mata is a £40M, 26 year old Champions League winner with over 360 appearances. What constitutes good enough for one is not what constitutes good enough for the other, simple as. Over the last two games neither produced a MOTM performance, but for which player was that the greater disappointment? Mata, clearly.
 
He was at least a 6/10 yesterday. Which was pretty much par for the entire team, Fellaini/Smalling aside (with Di Maria worse).

Not really sure why everyone seems to be turning on him. He's been very similar to the entire team this season in general, a couple of 8/10 performances, a couple of 6 or 7/10 performances and the West Brom 5/10 performance. I thought between him and Fellaini we kept Matic/Fabregas well occupied, which in turn limited their usual build up play. We also kept possession quite well, which Mata was a key part of.

He may be dropped for Rooney who will put in the same cluster of performances in the number 10 position and people will then say that Rooney should be up front, with Mata behind and RVP dropped (as was the general consensus 4 games ago). For some reason this forum has the bizarre belief that everyone who isn't playing is much better than those that are playing. It's some kind of strange nostalgic memory block.

As fans we should be championing the fact that we have quality player's like him that are part of our squad, rather than the previous batch of mediocre squad player's like Young, Kagawa, Valencia, Cleverley etc. The only shame of it is that we don't have 60 odd games this season whereby we can make the most of rotating between our attacking players. If we are where we should be next season player's like Mata will be invaluable.

Really? I think I missed those.
 
Despite Januzaj's 'failings' he's done more in 2 starts from a creative point of view than Mata has done in the whole seaon.
 
What I want from Mata is creativity and control of the game - he offers neither. I'm totally ignoring the rest of his faults like not tracking back, being mobile or whatever. He just doesn't offer us any creativity or control of the tempo and he is practically invisible in most matches even when he scores.

We should just cut our losses and sell him. Take a look what Isco or Silva are doing in their respective teams and compare that to Mata. We paid 40 million, for feck's sake, what do we get from that?

EDIT: Mourinho was just bullshiting us about Mata not being able to track back, he was just not being influential enough. Totally fecked us over.
 
The weird thing is, at Chelsea it seemed like he could pick a run or pass out of thin air, now he is playing with the blinkers on. What's changed?, I don't think Chelsea's movement is THAT much better than ours, so perhaps he has just lost form?.

Any regular Chelsea watchers over the last few years, what were his assists generally from. Crossing/freekicks?, or defence splitting passes etc.
You can find videos of his assists on Youtube (one below).
A number were corners and free kicks (Chelsea have obviously always been great in the air), and the majority of the others required a degree of space in behind the opposition defence or an element of counter-attacking - which was how they played during his best period.

The deeper the defence sits, the less likely he is to set up a goal. Whether through running to the byline and cutting it back or dinking it over the top.
We've been gearing towards possession play in the past year and a half. So it follows that he wont look as good.

And if he's not setting up or scoring, he's not doing much else by the way of dictating or controlling.

 
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Great article from Michael Cox on the Guardian Football website about how/why Mata was unable to be as creative yesterday as everyone is seemingly expecting he should have been.

http://www.theguardian.com/football...r-united-chelsea-jose-mourinho-louis-van-gaal

Michael Cox said:
Louis van Gaal’s and José Mourinho’s caution comes at cost of creativity
Manchester United and Chelsea followed their managers’ instructions to a T and the match suffered for it

Former colleagues Louis van Gaal and José Mourinho are reactive managers, varying their approach for the specific task of particular opponents. Both reacted too much here, handing their creative players strict defensive tasks and nullifying their own attacking potential.

Van Gaal’s Manchester United started by man-marking in the centre of midfield. Daley Blind watched Oscar, while Juan Mata and Marouane Fellaini concentrated on stopping Nemanja Matic and Cesc Fàbregas respectively. This tight midfield marking was a feature of Van Gaal’s strategy with Holland during the World Cup and, when combined with a spare man at the back, is effective at stifling the opposition’s creativity.

United’s midfielders often found themselves in very defensive positions – at one point, Eden Hazard was dispossessed by a combination of Fellaini and Mata on the edge of their own box. This was effective in a purely defensive sense, but meant Robin van Persie was isolated throughout.

Chelsea were not using such strict man-marking tactics but Oscar, the most advanced midfielder, expended most of his energy helping Didier Drogba to press the centre-backs and Blind, United’s deep-lying playmaker. Fàbregas also got tight to opponents, and Chelsea ensured they got numbers around Ángel di María quickly, leaving Matic to patrol a large space in front of the defence. As a result Chelsea were not as structured or as compact as we have come to expect, and were forced into a succession of fouls – many simply clumsy, but some tactical, when players found themselves out of position.

50a5e1ab-9482-4568-a20e-3acfc5012860-460x363.png

Manchester United’s man-marking in midfield often created space for Gary Cahill to come forward with the ball.
Both sides’ determination to track opponents created a fast-paced midfield zone, based around constant movement, but no one had much time on the ball: by virtue of man-marking opponents, everyone found themselves closely tracked at turnovers of possession. The creative play of Oscar, Mata and Fàbregas was barely noticeable, and while space often opened up in the centre of the pitch, it relied on players in other zones to exploit it. Chelsea’s Gary Cahill, not particularly renowned as a creative centre-back, charged into that space three times in the first half.

Neither team created much following long passing moves, and chances came from relatively basic approaches: United looked dangerous when hitting the ball to Robin van Persie quickly, Chelsea were effective when pressing high up the pitch, while the goals came from set pieces. There were lots plenty of talented attackers on show, but all were preoccupied with their defensive tasks.

I thought he did his job pretty well yesterday... and I'd say he was the best out of the 3 centrally creative players that were on the field (Him, Fabregas and Oscar) - he kept the ball well, spread the ball nicely - all whilst being effective within the role for the team that he was asked to play. (he also played one of the passes of the game to ADM... beautiful knock that was).

Yeah he didn't set the world on fire, nor was he a creative "force" but part of me things the expectations of people for him in the game, didn't fit the actual characteristics of the game itself.
 
Really? I think I missed those.

He was certainly an 8/10 against QPR. He's also played well against Everton & Sunderland. Then there's the games where he's done fine given the context of the game (Chelsea & Swansea). The West Ham game was clearly a stinker.

I'd say it's a pretty standard mixture of performances for that type of player, particularly in a team that has ranged from brilliant to dreadful almost half to half this season. I'd say maybe only Rooney and Di Maria as attackers have been in better form this season?
 
So United have just played their best team performance and suddenly Juan Mata is done now.

Am I missing something here other than the fact Ogden and Jackson are turning the Telegraph and Guardian into rag level press?

If this is to be believed I have a few points to make:

Mata vs Chelsea:

1) He had 91% pass completion. The highest of anyone on the pitch. Continuation of possession and is key to Van Gaal's strategy. Pulling opponents side to side and finding openings.
2) He was always available for an outlet ball - left, right or central. Highest pass combinations to him were from ADM, DB, RVP, AJ and R.
3) His passes were mainly to spread the play. Highest combos from him were to ADM, DB, LS and AJ. A clear move and instruction likely given by the coach.

You know sometimes, to perform better in a team you don't always have to stand out as a goal scoring threat or be the man that plays the crucial final pass. He created 3 chances, sometimes it's just unlucky if an assist is registered or not because it relies on the striker finishing the move. All in all he had a solid game and was the fulcrum of our play being neat and precise, keeping the team moving, creating space and relieving pressure. His energy and movement were superb.

In relation to this Ogden nonsense:

1) Falcao is a far greater player than Rooney so he should be the first one to come back, captain or not.
2) With Mata our team performances have been better/good - a widely accredited comment by LVG and press.
3) Wayne Rooney is yet to display a run of form worthy of starting in an AM role. Right now he should only be in contention for a striker role.
4) There's a young Belgian kid that I'm getting sick to death of people giving a free pass too just because he has "hype". Judging him today and this year, Januzaj has not earned a free go in the team. You cannot blindly have faith in a kid that is failing to produce anything of note at this level. He's been poor for 3/4 of this year and nobody questions it, certainly on here. It's baffling, truly baffling.
5) Has Rooney's pre red card form magically been forgotten? He was awful before it. This captain benefit stuff grates me, if he wasn't English he'd have to earn a starting space again.

I imagine I'll be lynched for comment 4 but it's entirely contextual, it's ok for the press to pick Mata apart but Rooney and Januzaj's failings are so blindingly ignored by all media its ridiculous. Annoying Gary Neville is arguably the biggest culprit of this too.

He wasn’t terrible yesterday but he was our worst player and he hasn’t done enough in Rooney’s absence to keep his place, I agree Januzaj hasn’t been great in the last 2 games but he has outperformed Mata so I don’t see how that supports your argument. I feel a bit sorry for him as he was cast aside by Chelsea and he was a bit of a panic buy for Moyes who was desperate for a big name and didn’t really seem to have a plan for him other than trying to shoe horn him in. If he has a team built around him, takes every free kick, every corner and has players with pace around him he can be a wonderful player but he won’t get that here and he just looks lost at the moment.

If someone offers us £25m or so in January or the summer I think we will sell and replace him with someone a bit more dynamic, and personally I would like to see Januzaj or Herrera play centrally instead of him in future because they deserve a chance to see if they can do better.
 
Despite Januzaj's 'failings' he's done more in 2 starts from a creative point of view than Mata has done in the whole seaon.

Nah, Januzaj's not really been all that much better than Mata, who's largely been poor but had a very good game against QPR.
 
Nah, Januzaj's not really been all that much better than Mata, who's largely been poor but had a very good game against QPR.

Mata wasn't great against QPR, not for me anyways.

I prefer attacking players who try to make things happen rather than players who are happy enough to go with the flow. Januzaj is the former and so far has been better than Mata despite only starting 2 games.
 
So United have just played their best team performance and suddenly Juan Mata is done now.

Am I missing something here other than the fact Ogden and Jackson are turning the Telegraph and Guardian into rag level press?

If this is to be believed I have a few points to make:

Mata vs Chelsea:

1) He had 91% pass completion. The highest of anyone on the pitch. Continuation of possession and is key to Van Gaal's strategy. Pulling opponents side to side and finding openings.

2) He was always available for an outlet ball - left, right or central. Highest pass combinations to him were from ADM, DB, RVP, AJ and R.

3) His passes were mainly to spread the play. Highest combos from him were to ADM, DB, LS and AJ. A clear move and instruction likely given by the coach.

You know sometimes, to perform better in a team you don't always have to stand out as a goal scoring threat or be the man that plays the crucial final pass. He created 3 chances, sometimes it's just unlucky if an assist is registered or not because it relies on the striker finishing the move. All in all he had a solid game and was the fulcrum of our play being neat and precise, keeping the team moving, creating space and relieving pressure. His energy and movement were superb.

In relation to this Ogden nonsense:

1) Falcao is a far greater player than Rooney so he should be the first one to come back, captain or not.

2) With Mata our team performances have been better/good - a widely accredited comment by LVG and press.

3) Wayne Rooney is yet to display a run of form worthy of starting in an AM role. Right now he should only be in contention for a striker role.

4) There's a young Belgian kid that I'm getting sick to death of people giving a free pass too just because he has "hype". Judging him today and this year, Januzaj has not earned a free go in the team. You cannot blindly have faith in a kid that is failing to produce anything of note at this level. He's been poor for 3/4 of this year and nobody questions it, certainly on here. It's baffling, truly baffling.

5) Has Rooney's pre red card form magically been forgotten? He was awful before it. This captain benefit stuff grates me, if he wasn't English he'd have to earn a starting space again.

I imagine I'll be lynched for comment 4 but it's entirely contextual, it's ok for the press to pick Mata apart but Rooney and Januzaj's failings are so blindingly ignored by all media its ridiculous. Annoying Gary Neville is arguably the biggest culprit of this too.

I guess it depends how you want your AM to play. I would take someone who controls a game and generally makes some impact on the game ahead of the Mata type, who scores a lot, has high passing stats and assists every now and then. You seem to be happy that he makes a lot of simple passes wide or backwards to keep the ball moving, that’s fine. I demand more from Mata, or maybe he’s just not my type of a footballer- anyway, I think we have others in the squad who can do his job.

I admitted before that he was much better against Chelsea. He certainly wasn’t bad. However, he wasn’t that good either. He had a lot of chances this season and I don’t think he’s crucial (or ever will be) in our possession-based system. That’s not exactly his game.

Regarding point 3 and 5, I have not seen anything from Mata that would suggest he should start ahead of Rooney in the AM role (I suppose you’re talking about the tip of the diamond). Moreover, I really think this role suits Wayne to the ground, especially if we play Falcao plus RVP/Januzaj/Wilson up front. You must really hate Rooney to say he was “awful” before red card.

As far as Januzaj is concerned, he was good yesterday, poor in the previous games. Either way in my opinion he should be getting more time, just because he offers pace and dribbling ability.
 
The weird thing is, at Chelsea it seemed like he could pick a run or pass out of thin air, now he is playing with the blinkers on. What's changed?, I don't think Chelsea's movement is THAT much better than ours, so perhaps he has just lost form?.

Any regular Chelsea watchers over the last few years, what were his assists generally from. Crossing/freekicks?, or defence splitting passes etc.
I thought about that myself as well and I wonder if he was the focus of Chelsea's attack and everyone was positioning himself to receive a Mata pass (so he played in a system that really suited him perfectly) or if he's just out of form
 
What I want from Mata is creativity and control of the game - he offers neither. I'm totally ignoring the rest of his faults like not tracking back, being mobile or whatever. He just doesn't offer us any creativity or control of the tempo and he is practically invisible in most matches even when he scores.

We should just cut our losses and sell him. Take a look what Isco or Silva are doing in their respective teams and compare that to Mata. We paid 40 million, for feck's sake, what do we get from that?

EDIT: Mourinho was just bullshiting us about Mata not being able to track back, he was just not being influential enough. Totally fecked us over.

There was a few times yesterday I actually yelled at my television at Juan because a Chelsea player had the ball and he was the closest player to him and he bascially just jogged along with him and made no effort what so ever to pressure them. No wonder he didn't fit in a Mourinho team
This was his chance to make it difficult for Rooney to come back into the team....... Rooney will start against city.
 
Mata wasn't great against QPR, not for me anyways.

I prefer attacking players who try to make things happen rather than players who are happy enough to go with the flow. Januzaj is the former and so far has been better than Mata despite only starting 2 games.

Maybe not great as such, but it was a fairly good performance.

Januzaj hasn't been particularly great in his two games and hasn't made all that much happen. He was decent yesterday, and poor last Monday.
 
For all those referring to his time at Chelsea, did you really scrutinize him to the same extent that you do now he's at United? Plus that Chelsea team wasn't very good by the standards of the Abramovich era. He looks like a second Berbatov to me. Looked great in a side at a slightly lower level, will come up with moments of pure class and, less tangibly, is the type of player you'd like to see thrive at United given our tradition for flair. But, at the end of the day, he doesn't exercise enough influence on the attack to compensate for a complete absence of defensive presence.
 
As far as Januzaj is concerned, he was good yesterday, poor in the previous games. Either way in my opinion he should be getting more time, just because he offers pace and dribbling ability.

He's not particularly quick and his dribbling ability is vastly overrated. He got dispossed 95% of the time trying to dribble yesterday for instance.
 
It's starting to feel like the beginning of the end for Mata at United, in my opinion.

I can see him ending up at Napoli, for about half of what we paid for him.
A Benitez system would suit him to a t, and he'd probably be so useful there that his drawbacks wont be such an issue.
His numbers alone will benefit them more than his weaknesses will harm them.
 
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He's not particularly quick and his dribbling ability is vastly overrated.
The thing is we have nobody else who can carry the ball forward like he does, unless we want to play Valencia or Young. My point was that what Januzaj offers is valuable for us right now. What Mata offers we can get from others.

He got dispossed 95% of the time trying to dribble yesterday for instance.
I don’t think that’s true but thank god we don’t play the best team in league week in week out. Anyway I think he did quite well considering how many passing options he had. Don’t expect him to run a show against top clubs.
 
Rewatched the match yesterday and revised my opinion of his performance up a few notches. He wasn't that bad. If RVP had just seen the easy square pass after Januzaj's brilliant through-ball he'd have scored into an open goal and we'd be having a very different conversation about his performance.
 
Rewatched the match yesterday and revised my opinion of his performance up a few notches. He wasn't that bad. If RVP had just seen the easy square pass after Januzaj's brilliant through-ball he'd have scored into an open goal and we'd be having a very different conversation about his performance.

I'm not so sure about that. The whole issue about him has to do with his contribution to overall play, goals and assists notwithstanding. Mata is more of a stats player for us and disappointment is largely our fault for being ignorant as to what type of player he was and Moyes for panic buying. Already the debate over Mata is 101% like the one we had with Kagawa.
 
I'm not so sure about that. The whole issue about him has to do with his contribution to overall play, goals and assists notwithstanding. Mata is more of a stats player for us and disappointment is largely our fault for being ignorant as to what type of player he was and Moyes for panic buying. Already the debate over Mata is 101% like the one we had with Kagawa.

Disagree totally. He's already exceeded the contribution and consistency that Kagawa managed, and that's coming from one of those who really wanted Kagawa to work out. Whatever else he does you can rely on Mata's possession play and just generally being an asset when we're on the ball. The difference between his good games and his bad games is whether he looks a threat creatively. He didn't really against Chelsea, although as I say he can blame RVP for not getting his name on the scoreboard.

Matic was clearly tasked with marking him out of the game in exactly the same way Fellaini marked Fabregas out of it. Fabregas was totally ineffective, whereas Mata was only partially limited. It seems unfair to let Fabregas off any criticism by simply crediting Fellaini's man-marking, whilst ignoring the fact that Mata's limitations in the game were down to a similar (though less effective) job by Matic.
 
Disagree totally. He's already exceeded the contribution and consistency that Kagawa managed, and that's coming from one of those who really wanted Kagawa to work out. Whatever else he does you can rely on Mata's possession play and just generally being an asset when we're on the ball. The difference between his good games and his bad games is whether he looks a threat creatively. He didn't really against Chelsea, although as I say he can blame RVP for not getting his name on the scoreboard.

Matic was clearly tasked with marking him out of the game in exactly the same way Fellaini marked Fabregas out of it. Fabregas was totally ineffective, whereas Mata was only partially limited. It seems unfair to let Fabregas off any criticism by simply crediting Fellaini's man-marking, whilst ignoring the fact that Mata's limitations in the game were down to a similar (though less effective) job by Matic.

Except that I would argue that Mata's passing has been fairly limited for all previous games. There's a reason why we look better with Di Maria centrally; because he adds so much more pace to our attack. Mata slows down our play because he lacks the ability to hold up the ball under close pressure and doesn't have a quick turn to lose a man.
 
2) With Mata our team performances have been better/good - a widely accredited comment by LVG and press.
This isn't true. If this was the case, then Mata would have never lost his place to Falcao. This is what Van Gaal did say before the Leicester game:
‘I was not so satisfied with the performances of Rooney as a striker and Mata as a midfielder, and that’s why I have changed’

I want Mata to do well, but he hasn't had a positive impact on our game (bar the QPR game) which tells you everything you need to know about how he's played this season.

5) Has Rooney's pre red card form magically been forgotten? He was awful before it. This captain benefit stuff grates me, if he wasn't English he'd have to earn a starting space again.
Rooney, Van Persie, and Mata were all poor in their first few games of the season, but since the switch to the 4-4-2 diamond, Rooney has put in good/very good performances. Even after Mata's good performance against QPR, Van Gaal wasn't satisfied. Maybe that's to do with him being a problem defensively, not shielding the ball well, and playing the #10 role in a manner that causes problems for the team.

Had Rooney not gone into meltdown mode against Leicester and had he not stupidly got sent off against West Ham, I imagine there wouldn't be a debate over who should play behind the strikers. While he does have his limitations, such as inconsistent first touch, slowing play down, and not having the intelligence of Mata, I feel that Rooney's all-round game fits our system better.
 
I'm not so sure about that. The whole issue about him has to do with his contribution to overall play, goals and assists notwithstanding. Mata is more of a stats player for us and disappointment is largely our fault for being ignorant as to what type of player he was and Moyes for panic buying. Already the debate over Mata is 101% like the one we had with Kagawa.

There's some overlap there, insofar as we also didn't seem to buy Mata with a clear vision as how to use him.

However the key difference is that with Kagawa, his lack of goals or assists meant that we were sacrificing a lot more when we were trying him out.

With Mata there's a question mark about our overall direction and style of play and whether he's contributing to that. But his decent stats for goals and assists means that at least you're getting something while he's on the pitch. That makes it a hell of a lot easier to justify trying him out for a longer period.
 
There's some overlap there, insofar as we also didn't seem to buy Mata with a clear vision as how to use him.

However the key difference is that with Kagawa, his lack of goals or assists meant that we were sacrificing a lot more when we were trying him out.

With Mata there's a question mark about our overall direction and style of play and whether he's contributing to that. But his decent stats for goals and assists means that at least you're getting something while he's on the pitch. That makes it a hell of a lot easier to justify trying him out for a longer period.

We sold the wrong player imo, on the other hand i think we were forced to sell Kagawa as we just spunked 37m on Mata just 6 months ago. The few chances Kagawa got in the middle he was bright for us, he can do everything Mata does and has more pace, skill and can beat a player.

And people saying Rooney has been poor, what utter bollox he's been one of our best and productive players before the red card.
 
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