seems like there is a lot of smoke with this one.....young player for a nominal fee
Joshua Zirkzee | signed for Manchester United
- Thread starter Hansi Fick
- Start date
- Status
Fbref is just raw data without context, stats bomb is much better data and their data is far better and the chart customized for the position.
Also if you look at what is actually there on fbref...
11th percentile for non penalty xG, 26th when you add the xAssists, nothing crazy with progression... His green/high numbers are just involvement. He gets a lot of touches and passes for a forward (as he drops deep), but doesn't do much with them. Solid defensive numbers.
Basically, just get Wout Weghorst back at that point...
He's pretty spot on, although Motta forced Zirkzee into learning how to play as a lone 9 this season and he developed and excelled at it so the assessment is a bit outdated. Either way yeah he's sort of a giant Jesus, which is a freaky profile to speculate on if the goal scoring instincts improve.
Yeah that's my take too. I guess to play devil's advocate: Pass OBV is 68th percentile but maybe a function of him getting involved in everything and playing a bunch of back passes. AFAIK it's just a sum of all the different raw Pass OBV (both positive and negative) and if you're very involved in the game as an attacker it's hard to rack up OBV. Open play xG assisted looks decent at 84th percentile and as you say defensively very solid.
I'm surprised by the Carry OBV being 51st percentile for a guy that's so involved in the game and has high vol of carries.
I think there's some story that the radar is not telling that the raw data tells but I don't watch enough of the player to tell it.
I’ve seen nothing yet to suggest that we should be signing a striker who should only be satisfied to be Hojlund’s backup. This is Manchester United. If Hojlund has proven himself an automatic starter then dearie me.
34m is now seen as a nominal fee. How times have changed!
Either way, I like this potential signing a lot. He’s young, lots of potential upside, but is coming off the back of a very good season in a tough defensive league. Will provide genuine competition for Hojlund, as well as an excellent rotation option. Short of going for a major signing like Osimhen, this is exactly the sort of player we should be after. His relatively low cost, fee and wages, allows us to improve other areas of the squad. If we sell Greenwood, his fee and wages should cancel out this transfer cost, with a possible net gain. And that’s before we move on Sancho.
More just we may as well give him the fair shot to develop given we need a proper rebuild and it should be centered around Garnacho and Mainoo. Also Hojlund for a young striker has a better goal record than anybody we could sign for pretty much under 100mil.. we've invested loads, so may as well give him the time while we rebuild around.
Same don't get this fascination to get the backup striker. None of our forwards should be automatic starter from last season performance.
Was thinking the same
I think he compliments our attack well, and with a lack of real goal scorers out there I don't hate going down this route.
That is pretty freaky tbf. Heard he's experienced in getting on the end of a cross
Hojlund is a bad fit for hag ball, I don't see that changing anytime soon. If we do sign this guy, he might eventually replace him.
It's about realistic squad building and finances. We committed a lot to Hojlund and he had a good 1st season and has big potential. He'll get the time to develop. Garnacho is an elite level young winger. Mainoo is our young star in midfield. They are what we'll build around. If they stall in their development, then eventually we'll buy somebody else, but given the rest of the team is a disaster, we won't interrupt their development until the rest is addressed and they are the ones holding us back.
Zirkzee isn't a patch on Hojlund let's be real.
It may just be me but I notice when Arsenal or Pool are linked with a player the trend of the caf is to talk them up and moan about the probable losing out on the player. Contrast that to when we're linked to one and its just skepticism and doubt 
Nailed on success, then.
Really? What is this based on?
This is not a signing that moves the needle at all and in our situation, every dime needs to be spent on instant, club trajectory-altering talent. Neat little hold up player, barely does anything else. Striker who barely scores. Waste of time and resources. Channel that money into game changing midfielders that can finally get us to control games again for the first time in over a decade.
Wouldnt a striker who can hold up the ball also help a lot in controling a game?
Who cares if he's 2 years older? Progress isn't linear and when you're comparing hojlund to a 23 year old it's clutching at straws by citing age
. He has better dribbling, link up and balance. He can also beat a man. I think it's impressive we spunked >50% more on a relatively limited player.
What if next year Hojlund gets injured for four months?
We complain about Rashford not being a striker i guess
Arsenal have been linked to Zirkzee as wellIt may just be me but I notice when Arsenal or Pool are linked with a player the trend of the caf is to talk them up and moan about the probable losing out on the player. Contrast that to when we're linked to one and its just skepticism and doubt
The fundamentals of his game all seem really good. He just turned 23. He has a lot of improvement that could still happen. At 34m he seems like a really astute signing, because even if he isn't scoring goals, he seems to have enough about his all round game, that he'll be contributing to the build up and chance creation. He looks a powerful runner with the ball, which is always welcome, and seems pretty direct in his eye for goal, which is something I feel we often lack.
At his price tag, there is always likely to be some sort of trade off. We aren't getting the finished article for 34m at 23 years old. So we have to be realistic with our expectations, but this is exactly the sort of astute, budget friendly signing that we should be after. They aren't all going to work, but for 34m I struggle to think of a better CF signing we could make. And given that we need a LB, LCB, RCB, DM, and CM as well, we have to be smart.
At his price tag, there is always likely to be some sort of trade off. We aren't getting the finished article for 34m at 23 years old. So we have to be realistic with our expectations, but this is exactly the sort of astute, budget friendly signing that we should be after. They aren't all going to work, but for 34m I struggle to think of a better CF signing we could make. And given that we need a LB, LCB, RCB, DM, and CM as well, we have to be smart.
I hope we aren't just giving up on Hojlund. But I do love the signing as it gives us some choice
Is he at the Euros? If so, I'll have to look out for him, though I imagine any transfer would have to wait. If he's not at the Euros, why not?
Hojlund needs competition, not a backup so this makes sense. I don't think I'm massively impressed, but for the price, and the potential I can see why we're going for him.
What isn't it based on?? Hojlund is 2 years younger and has better numbers than Zirkzee does in Italy.
Hojlund in Italy had a 92nd percentile non-penalty xG (85th when you combine xG and xA), Zirkzee's is 41st percentile, 54th when you combine xG and xA (just among serie A forwards). Zirkzee improved from 2 goals in 21 games in his first season to being a 1 in 4 striker... Great. He's just an average player.
Hojlund when you watch him is far more explosive and effective, and the numbers back it up, and all the raw attributes are far better for Hojlund. They aren't on the same level as prospects or current ability players.
Who cares if he's 2 years older? Progress isn't linear and when you're comparing hojlund to a 23 year old it's clutching at straws by citing age
He has better dribbling, link up and balance. He can also beat a man. I think it's impressive we spunked >50% more on a relatively limited player.
Very much your opinion. Hojlund looks far better in all areas to me but then if we all saw the same things we would not need a discussion board. Personally I think they are both good young players and are infinitely preferable to the treadmill of over the hill veterans we signed under Woodward, if we are lucky the pair of them can compliment one another and set us up for a good few years in the forward department.
If we had managed to get Sesko I suspect that’s what would have happened within no time at all. With Zirkzee, we’ll see how it goes. But as far as I am concerned, it should be a genuine fight. No ‘Zirkzee is coming to be backup’. Hojlund is currently a long way from a top CF himself, and there are questions about a number of his attributes I think.
As I said, with Sesko, I think he’s simply a bigger talent than Hojlund and if we signed him I’d expect him to have been prioritised.
He's quite similar to Martial, technical forward who links the play well but doesn't score or press much. Not injury prone at least.
I haven’t seen much of Zirkzee if that’s true what’s the point? Let’s be real Hojlund has hardly been impressive there’s question marks over his quality for me and if this guy isn’t even at that level we’re just filling the squad with shite again
We still have to massively improve our creativity, or this lad isn't going to make a much difference to our ridiculous lack of goals.
He's at the Euros, but wasn't in the original squad. He was only added as a replacement after De Jong and Koopmeiners were injured. It's unlikely he'll see any minutes this tournament. He's currently yet to make his senior international debut.
He'd be a brilliant signing for that money, even if that numpty of an agent wants daft money (not saying we should pay it, just that it's still good value all considered).
The numbers don't tell the story with him I think due to his style of play. I wonder though, would he work in the following setup:
Zirkzee
Rashford - Bruno - Garnacho
And would it make sense to have our two main strikers be such contrasting styles, with Hojlund almost the opposite to Zirkzee?
The numbers don't tell the story with him I think due to his style of play. I wonder though, would he work in the following setup:
Zirkzee
Rashford - Bruno - Garnacho
And would it make sense to have our two main strikers be such contrasting styles, with Hojlund almost the opposite to Zirkzee?
It can only be a good thing to have a different kind of option. I think there'd be scope for them getting playing time together as well, either in the kind of two striker system we played in the last few games or with Zirkzee on the left or Hojlund on the right of the 4-2-3-1.
They seem like they'd be pretty complementary. Hojlund must be dying to have a less selfish forward than Rashford/Garnacho/Antony playing with him at times.
We're doing multiple deals at once. I'm on my knees crying and praying to god.
Not injury prone YET.
Judging by that video alone he’s like a carbon copy of Martial
- Status