United doesn't have the financial ability to sign Osimhen this window, so they have to look at other options. We need bodies in, so spending all of the budget on one player won't work this summer.
Joshua Zirkzee | signed for Manchester United
- Thread starter Hansi Fick
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I'm happy for Hojlund to be the no 1 striker next season, thought he had a good season for his first in a side that didn't create a lot and scored 16 goals, if we improve our chance creating he will score more next season.
So if Hojlund is the no 1 striker then no I don't see a reason to spend 130m on a CF when we have so may holes and gaps in other areas of the side, we need to sign another young promising striker to compete with Hojlund.
I'm not sure Zirkzee is the player, I would have preferred Sesko we also need to add more goals/creativity from the wide areas (so a replacement for Greenwood/Sancho)
I am Nigerian and I like Osimhen a lot but I do not think he is an elite finisher who you should spend 130m on
If United hadn't been run so poorly by the Glazers and were, say, 1 big signing away from being a genuine title contender, and that player needed to be a striker, then I think yeah you're right, go and pay £120m for Osimhen or the like. Liverpool did that when they needed VVD and Allison, and it was the right thing to do.
As it is, our squad is a mishmash of players who are all suited to different styles of play. We're overburdened by expensive flops in some positions, and completely lacking depth of any kind in others. We need to fill too many gaps to make just one big marquee signing, and PSR is a thing now, so we're having to try and be more creative with who we sign
They aren’t for us, either. We sign Osimhen for that money we sign nobody else all season.
Hojlund and Zirkzee money could get us Lautaro, we just don't know what are we doing. Dude can't stop scoring and is enetering his prime, 27.
If we were linked with Gabriel Jesus, Matheus Cunha or Gakpo I wonder if the same people that are excited about Zirkzee would have the same level of enthusiasm for these signings.
I get the sense that because he plays in a different league and is somewhat of an unknown is exciting some and they are being wishful in their thinking in him being the proper CF this team needs.
The three players I listed above are actually good players but I’m sure if we were linked we’d hear that they are the type of striker we need despite not being that different to Zirkzee in how they operate and goal tally.
I get the sense that because he plays in a different league and is somewhat of an unknown is exciting some and they are being wishful in their thinking in him being the proper CF this team needs.
The three players I listed above are actually good players but I’m sure if we were linked we’d hear that they are the type of striker we need despite not being that different to Zirkzee in how they operate and goal tally.
I'd take Cunha he is brilliant
Your math makes no sense. So you think Hojlund will be down to 5 goals and Zirkzee needs to score 20?
In his first season, at the new club and new league?What? You would expect the team to add better options so we create more so Hojlund will score more goals than last season when he was starved of chances
It’s the caf, people will call him that within 12 mins of his debut.
Completely agree.
In a different summer, with different squad needs, then we could afford a huge big money #9 signing that takes up much of the budget.
But we have so many areas to address that we're going to have to spend sensibly with each addition. Sensibly obviously also means making the right call on the choice of player - so there's debate to be had as to whether we can find better players than Zirkzee and De Ligt for around similar prices. But there's no doubt that sensibly also means spending within our means, which at this stage doesn't allow us to spend big money on an elite #9 (should one even be available and willing to come!)
Hes an interesting signing because he was supposed to be a top level striker talent when he was at Bayern and he never kicked on.
Has he been capped for The Nederlands yet? Is he likely to see any action in the Euro's?
No. He wasn't in the original squad, and was only called up because of injuries after it was announced.
He hasn't played for them yet, and almost guaranteed he won't get any minutes this tournament without injuries or suspension to those ahead of him.
I'd say a lot of it is more realism, and understanding the budget we have and rebuild that's necessary, rather than excitement.
Zirkzee seems an acceptable addition given the money he's available for due to no English / PL Tax and the release clause meaning no United Tax. After years of poor negotiating, it's going to take INEOS a while to rebuild our respect in negotiations so they're going to come up against the United Tax a lot for a while yet, so targeting release clauses is sensible as that removes us being demanded a higher fee.
Yes, of course there's better strikers out there. But they'll command a much higher transfer fee that we can't pay this summer while having to also address so many other areas.
It's going to be a slow rebuild. The players we bring in this summer aren't going to be the ones to win the PL or CL for us, and we all know that. But if we start making sensible signings for solid footballing / tactical reasons, then hopefully we'll start building sides that are as good or better than the sum of its parts, not worse as for the last decade. And that's the way we'll start getting better and more consistent and competitive.
Your math makes no sense. So you think Hojlund will be down to 5 goals and Zirkzee needs to score 20?
If Hojlund plays less so that Zirkzee can get the 10-11 goals he got last season then yes obviously Hojlund is going to be down to a lot less than his 10. They wont be playing together from the start. If Zirzkee plays, Hojlund contributes less
If you dont understand this, give up
Agreed. People keep talking about getting proper strikers but having an effective attack is not just about the striker. If Garnacho, Rash and Hojlund are the starting attack next season Utd are going to run into many of the same problems, all 3 are one dimensional at this stage, lack creativity for others, no wonder there is so little synergy between them.
It Utd had Giggs/Beckham style wide players who were all about creating for others then an out and out 9 would be a reasonable option, though personally I would still prefer a rounded striker, don't need to add another one note player to the attack.
I am not saying we should buy him - too expensive - but if 41 goals in his last 57 Serie A-matches (2 seasons) isn't elite - you have huge demands
Granted it's not as good as Haaland or Mbappe - but they have played for the best team in their leagues the last 2 seasons - Osimhen played for a mediocre team this seasonI am not saying we should buy him - too expensive - but if 41 goals in his last 57 Serie A-matches (2 seasons) isn't elite - you have huge demands
I think he is great, I don't think he suits the way we want to play. If we massively improved the rest of the team and only needed a pure finisher fine, he missed quite a lot of chances too
The conversation about Zirkzee is less about budget or even how good he is and more about is he the right type of player to sign.
He is pretty much a false nine and one that isn’t really much of a goal threat. That is what the reservations are about.
It could make sense if we had a good attack and reliable scorers but we objectively have a bad attack for a team with top 4 hopes.
The only way this makes sense to me is if our plan is to play with two strikers or banking on us getting 30 goal a season Rashford again. Relying on either of these to happen would be foolish though as they won’t happen.
Playing with Bruno as a false 9 helped us get some results at the end of the season, and even win the FA Cup final. So, it can work.
(I don't necessarily subscribe to this viewpoint, but) The hope with signing Zirkzee, a purported false 9 type of forward who doesn’t score a large volume of goals himself, would surely be that he will help allow a platform for our previously proven goalscorers (Rashford and Fernandes) to find their feet in front of goal again.
Assuming we sign him, Zirkzee only scoring 10-15 goals next season is fine IF his general play works as a platform for others to progress their goal tallies. His goal tally won’t exist in a vacuum. In the same way Kai Havertz only got 13 and Jesus only got 4 (lol) but Arsenal still ended the season with 91 league goals.
Assuming we sign him, Zirkzee only scoring 10-15 goals next season is fine IF his general play works as a platform for others to progress their goal tallies. His goal tally won’t exist in a vacuum. In the same way Kai Havertz only got 13 and Jesus only got 4 (lol) but Arsenal still ended the season with 91 league goals.
Eventually he can, but he's not a very prolific goalscorer and I'm not sure he ever will be as he's not necessarily someone who misses a lot of chances, he just doesn't get into scoring positions as often as a more classical striker. He's very compatible with prolific wide attackers/ attacking midfielders who score a lot of goals (like Bruno or on form Rashford), but lacking that I'm not sure how much impact he will make.
There's also the league factor. He's big and strong and surprislingly agile for a big guy, but can he do it in the Premier League? Bit hard to say.
For 40 million he's definitely worth a shot though.
edit: @Andycoleno9 you asked as well, here you go. Don't take my word as gospel though haha.
Three games. I wouldn’t put much trust in that especially if teams can scheme for us playing that way.
I think the idea is that you have a Plan A with Højlund and trying to get him in behind and a Plan B with Zirkzee dropping off to link up with Bruno and co. He'd basically be replacing McT in that setup.
We’re not in the financial situation and more importantly squad situation to spend 130m on a single player. It doesn’t make logical sense when your squad is a mess. You have to first build the foundations then earn the right and comfort to spend lavishly. Our problem is that we always want to skip steps or take them backwards.
The change in our transfer strategy looks very clear. We are looking for value. Young players who are either, getable from smaller clubs (Zirkzee, Branthwaite, Todibo), or unwanted by their current club (Ugarte, deLigt). Whether that is an actual change in transfer strategy from Ineos going forward, or because we have so many positions to fill this summer, or the realities of our finances... only time will tell I guess. I think it's telling we haven't been linked with a bid over £40m.
Zrikzee's situation feels like the kind of things our fans would be screaming about 12 months down the line when we are trying to sign him from Milan for £80m, saying "we could have got him for half that a years ago". Now it feels like some are turning their nose up at him because he isn't already the creme de la creme.
I've no idea if he'll be a success or not, I also haven't seen much of him to offer too much insight, but I think he looks a good player, with good potential, who offers us something different at a decent price. From what I have read, the biggest issues with him is he doesn't score enough and his decision making can be a little suspect. However he looks pretty composed with good technique so I don't see why he can't improve upon that in a different set-up, with some more experience.
Last season Hojlund had a goal conversion rate that was higher then that of Haaland. What did we achieve out of that? Next to nothing. In fact we won the FA cup final with Bruno upfront as a false 9. You can have a hybrid of Shearer, Batistuta and RVN upfront but it means jack shit unless our wingers create chances for him. Our wingers don't do that. They cut inside and try to score goals. Hence why Zirkzee is a great fit for us. He'll drop deep, dragging defenders with him in the process and he'll create chances for others to score.
Who are these others and how many will they score?
You’ve said it yourself in your post that our wingers don’t create much so why aren’t we looking to sign a wide player who can do this and an actual striker that can score. How is signing a ‘striker’ that creates going to help in scoring more if our wide players aren’t reliable scorers. We are just conplicating things for no reason.
Signing Olise and Toney would make far more sense than whatever it is we seem to be doing in the attacking positions. The players listed here are just the easiest examples of what I’m trying to illustrate, I’m sure there’s a few other options that will work.
Presumably we are doing both which is why we were linked with Olise and still reportedly attempting to hijack that deal but we also need to shit Sancho/Greenwood.
Ivan Toney reportedly wants crazy wages so that's a non starter (even Arsenal walked away from that one)
Has United's interest been confirmed or is this just agent games to earn his commission?
I'm certainly not against signing a player who can provide assists and contribute goals, however there is definitely still a need to bring in a Fulkrug/Morata type striker as well. I would love Martinez but no way can we afford that in our situation.
Yeah, Ornstein has referenced our interest in him.
Selling our wingers is not easy. Most of them are on silly salaries and long term contract which makes it near impossible to get rid off. They all seem to have the same characteristics as well ie cutting in and then try to score which means that buying a goal poacher won't work.
But that's not all. Having a striker with a different skillset allows the manager to radically change the game with just 1 substitution. That can prove vital. Let's not forget that we won the treble precisely because we switched from Cole to Yorke to Teddy and Ole. That coupled by Bayern's complacency in substituting the extremely experienced Matthaus was enough to create chaos in Bayern's defence that United were able to exploit. We've seen that happening at the FA cup final with Bruno replacing Hojlund upfront. Zirkzee is a clear upgrade to Bruno in that false 9 role.
I think that Zirkzee will become a club favorite very quickly. He's a machine with great technique who'll drop deep, he'll work for the ball, and will involve everyone around him. He's also got a decent eye for goal as well, not to the extent to that of Hojlund but far better then Wout. Capello described him as the complete striker, his second favorite striker in the Serie A behind Lautaro.
Not true
1. Hojlund didn't play every minute of every game last season. Rashford was playing as a striker for many of them. Now Zirkzee will be playing those, so the amount of minutes Hojlund gets does not have to be half of what it was. That is simply incorrect
2. Hojlund's productivity needs to increase because he should play in better team and competition from Zirkzee needs to give him a needed kick up the ass to do better
Having two strikers and expecting both to net double digit goals is not anything wild in premiership where teams like us play in four competitions
we were a financial behemoth, not any more. Glazers squandered it all away.
Why do you think they sold so much of to the club to INEOS? They knew if they continued like this they might drive it to the ground.
The financial position we were in when Fergie retired and right now are extremely different.
I mean come on, I know Osimhen doesn’t make sense because of budget constraints.
But Osimhen is leagues ahead of Hojlund, and if we had the money, I would happily pay 130m for him.
He’s what like 24-25 as well, isn’t even in his prime yet
He is better than Hojlund never said he wasn’t. Thats not the point of the post. Osimhen is a limited footballer but a really good finisher for that money I would want a better player someone like Isak
Getting both De Ligt and Zirkzee for the price of 1 Branthwaite would be nice tbh
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