Jose Mourinho | Sacked by Roma

[shamans]

It’s no surprise to see many of the same people who hated Ole, complain about Ten Hag are all in here absolutely knee sliding with joy about daddy Jose.

You're trying to spin a narrative but I think Ole is a crap manager, Mourinho is a top class manager but was horrible for us due to his own doing and rightfully got sacked (should have been sacked earlier I even made a thread on it and it got locked for being ridiculous because we finished second). Ten Haag is a top manager and we need to persist.

The real lack of surprise is the usual bashing Mourinho's tactics when a second consecutive European final achieved by any other manager would be praised. The guy is a top class manager just because he failed at United (and other teams) wont change that.

 

[Siorac]

Because he wanted to win and that's what has set him apart from 95% of the managerial world out there.

You think 95% of managers don't want to win?

 

[shamans]

You think 95% of managers don't want to win?

The art of management is knowing what situation to play to and when. The most naive managers like Ole, or Lampard pick one style of play that's positive or attacking and just try and force that every game. Look at more mature managers like ETH, Mourinho or Ancelotti (yes he got it wrong recently) and they try and tweak for each game. There are exceptions like Klopp/Pep but that's a different story (maybe the other 5 percent of managers).

so 95% of managers don't know how to win. You can't be so good as Mourinho has been in cup/European competitions and call it all a fluke.

 

[Pintu]

That is a brilliant post. Joses magic only works at teams that perceive themselves as underdogs even if they are not actually. That is why he is doing a good job at Roma and would fail miserably at City for example..different perception of his methods..

Roma was the underdog yesterday though… They have too many injuries. And in general they should not be expected to make a final in a competition featuring so many clubs from the top 4 of the top leagues… I think among the quarter-finalists Roma was the only club that hasn’t been in its domestic top 4/5 for so long...


But still the way they did yesterday is quite repulsive. Not the bus parking. I mean the time wasting. Hearing it was on silly levels..

 

[roonster09]

Well, Ronaldo has a fan base too so.

At least with Ronaldo it's easy to see. He was exceptional player for us, won is league titles, CL and won best player award playing for us which is very rare. There was always a history with Ronaldo.

 

[Real Name]

At least with Ronaldo it's easy to see. He was exceptional player for us, won is league titles, CL and won best player award playing for us which is very rare. There was always a history with Ronaldo.

Maybe not the best comparison I agree. I meant in the sense after him having a poop on the club his fan base among United fans is still strong.

 

[roonster09]

It’s no surprise to see many of the same people who hated Ole, complain about Ten Hag are all in here absolutely knee sliding with joy about daddy Jose.

See @Real Name , @Judas is my favourite poster now. He can carry the mantle, call out these Jose boys.

 

[Chief123]

More than happy to have such stats if we can beat City in the FA Cup final with A lucky goal or own goal.

None of that “rather lose 3-4 playing exciting football than win 1-0 parking the bus” bs when it comes to trophies and cup competitions.

I’d take it for a one off but not a complete philosophy of how the team is drilled to play.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Because he wanted to win and that's what has set him apart from 95% of the managerial world out there.

They all want to win? I don’t think it’s a good tactic to rely on 1 shot and not conceding from 23 shots… why play like that when you have as much resources as Leverkusen. Also why couldn’t they have gone through without stopping from playing football either, they had a one goal lead from the first leg. Mourinho would convince people that’s the only way that was possible to win a game when it really isn’t.

 

[KD6-3.7]

All this revisionism about Mourinho lately is so strange. There's a reason he is at Roma and that's because no genuinely top club will touch him anymore. I still maintain the opinion something about that last season in Madrid broke him because he hasn't been the same since but it also could be he refused to keep up with modern football.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

The deep hatred for Mourinho is weird. If it was someone like Marco Silva or Allegri doing it at Roma, they would get the praises. So why not Mourinho?

Gotta admit, I'll always have a soft spot for Mourinho because of that Slippy Gerrard at Anfield.

 

[Licha M]

Deserves a stand named after him if he breaks Sevilla hearts.

 

[Ish]

Sure why not, Jose was winning countless CLs with Ronaldo, Modric, Ramos, Pepe, Varane, Di Maria, Ozil, Benzema. If only he made KdB and Haaland.

Yeah extremely weird how some think he’s still prime Mourinho and can’t accept that he’s past his prime.

I am a bit surprise just how many Utd fans still worship him after his miserable and toxic time here? He really does know how to charm people of a certain type.

Very weird indeed. And they’ve sort of vindicated themselves because “he was proven right about pogba/martial”….even though he signed the one for huge money and being right about some things doesn’t necessarily mean he still wasn’t a toxic twat who blamed everyone except himself….

Fecking weird bunch.

Basically this.

I actually don’t mind him and always liked Roma (thank you Totti) so wouldn’t mind him beating Sevilla. But the kind of worship he gets on here is a little crazy.

 

[Zehner]

The playacting and timewasting is really annoying and something should be done about it. But playing that negative is legit albeit very boring and I wouldn't want such a manager anywhere near the team I support. Still, I never really respect titles that are won this way. It's always a fluke and simply banking on your luck that no shot goes in and you hit a lucky punch. It's not really reproducable and only works in cups.

It's also a bit ambitionless if not to say embarassing that a club of Roma's size sets up like this against Leverkusen. If they played like this against us, how would Mourinho set up against City? Stabbing every ball in the stadium with a knife to win a draw at the green table?

 

[mu4c_20le]

Basically this.

I actually don’t mind him and always liked Roma (thank you Totti) so wouldn’t mind him beating Sevilla. But the kind of worship he gets on here is a little crazy.

Same. He may have acted like a cnut towards the end of his tenure, but iirc he never disrespected the fans so I have no hate towards the man. It's his acolytes that can be unbearable at times, almost as if they're living off of his successes.

 

[kolli]

The playacting and timewasting is really annoying and something should be done about it. But playing that negative is legit albeit very boring and I wouldn't want such a manager anywhere near the team I support. Still, I never really respect titles that are won this way. It's always a fluke and simply banking on your luck that no shot goes in and you hit a lucky punch. It's not really reproducable and only works in cups.

It's also a bit ambitionless if not to say embarassing that a club of Roma's size sets up like this against Leverkusen. If they played like this against us, how would Mourinho set up against City? Stabbing every ball in the stadium with a knife to win a draw at the green table?

It's not about the size of the club though, but about what the opposition's strengths and weaknesses are?
Looking at that Leverkusen team, the one thing you want to take away from them is Diaby and Frimpong getting any kind of space behind your defensive line.
The easiest way to make sure that doesn't happen is by sitting deep.
Not too different to what United used to do against Liverpool all these years trying to contain Salah and Alexander-Arnold

 

[Siorac]

The art of management is knowing what situation to play to and when. The most naive managers like Ole, or Lampard pick one style of play that's positive or attacking and just try and force that every game. Look at more mature managers like ETH, Mourinho or Ancelotti (yes he got it wrong recently) and they try and tweak for each game. There are exceptions like Klopp/Pep but that's a different story (maybe the other 5 percent of managers).

so 95% of managers don't know how to win. You can't be so good as Mourinho has been in cup/European competitions and call it all a fluke.

See, I kind of disagree about Mourinho tweaking for each game. (also about him being mature but that's a whole different discussion)

In his own way, he's as 'dogmatic' and stubborn as Guardiola. He doesn't want to play on the front foot ever, if he can avoid it. He wants to spoil the game first and foremost. Even when that's not the best idea - it's why he managed to crash out of the CL against a 10-man PSG, why he tried to sit on a 2-1 lead at the Bernabeu against Bayern and paid the price for it, it's why we got whacked by Sevilla at Old Trafford.

 

[Markolan]

Mourinho is an amazing manager, it's impressive how he managed to qualify to the final despite Roma desperate situation with injuries.

In both semifinals he was forced to start:
- A midfielder (Cristante) as CB given Smalling, Llorente and Kumbulla were injuried
- A "striker" (Belotti) who has scored ZERO goals in Serie A upfront because Dybala, El Shaarawy, Solbakken were all unavailable
- A kid (Bove) who just started 2 matches this season prior to last month because Gini Wijnaldum was unfit and Cristante had to play as defender..
And, on top of that, during yesterday's game he was forced to sub off the two WBs due to injury (with the potential replacement Karsdorp out since January).

Despite that unique, that incredible, that very unfortunate situation Mourinho did it. That's something only absolute top coaches would be able to do and he did. Mourinho showed the world, yesterday, he's STRONGER than bad luck.

In the final I expect a different Roma, a much stronger Starting XI with everyone fit.
Dybala alone will massively improve their attack.

 

[KC91]

I feel like people are focusing far too much on the quantity of shots that Leverkusen had last night vs the quality. Roma never really looked like being in danger, they were defending comfortably and there were maybe 2 out of those 23 shots that would be concerning for them. They’ve been doing this since last year in the Conference League really, they absolutely have the quality to be more expansive offensively, but if they get a lead to sit on, it is very very tough to break them down.

 

[Red the Bear]

The playacting and timewasting is really annoying and something should be done about it. But playing that negative is legit albeit very boring and I wouldn't want such a manager anywhere near the team I support. Still, I never really respect titles that are won this way. It's always a fluke and simply banking on your luck that no shot goes in and you hit a lucky punch. It's not really reproducable and only works in cups.

It's also a bit ambitionless if not to say embarassing that a club of Roma's size sets up like this against Leverkusen. If they played like this against us, how would Mourinho set up against City? Stabbing every ball in the stadium with a knife to win a draw at the green table?

I don’t particularly enjoy this brand of football either but to call it a fluke is a bit of a stretch, the constant success of the likes of peak mou Herrera and what someone like simeone did with atletico should dispel that notion.

It takes a lot discipline and defensive nuance to pull it off at a high level.

 

[TheLiverBird]

The playacting and timewasting is really annoying and something should be done about it. But playing that negative is legit albeit very boring and I wouldn't want such a manager anywhere near the team I support. Still, I never really respect titles that are won this way. It's always a fluke and simply banking on your luck that no shot goes in and you hit a lucky punch. It's not really reproducable and only works in cups.

It's also a bit ambitionless if not to say embarassing that a club of Roma's size sets up like this against Leverkusen. If they played like this against us, how would Mourinho set up against City? Stabbing every ball in the stadium with a knife to win a draw at the green table?

Such a bitter post

winning is winning

Wether you perceive that style of winning as fun or not is irrelevant.

But it should be respected….why? Because it worked?

you don’t have too enjoy things too respect them.

 

[Zehner]

It's not about the size of the club though, but about what the opposition's strengths and weaknesses are?
Looking at that Leverkusen team, the one thing you want to take away from them is Diaby and Frimpong getting any kind of space behind your defensive line.
The easiest way to make sure that doesn't happen is by sitting deep.
Not too different to what United used to do against Liverpool all these years trying to contain Salah and Alexander-Arnold

If you have greater individual quality, you make it count instead of betting on fortuna.

I don’t particularly enjoy this brand of football either but to call it a fluke is a bit of a stretch, the constant success of the likes of peak mou Herrera and what someone like simeone did with atletico should dispel that notion.

It takes a lot discipline and defensive nuance to pull it off at a high level.

It doesn't matter if it is difficult to pull off or not. You have to be lucky to get through. It's a decent way to fight uphill battles because in those cases betting on luck increases your chances to win.

Would you say Mourinho is a coach that makes a team punch above its weight?

Such a bitter post

winning is winning

Wether you perceive that style of winning as fun or not is irrelevant.

But it should be respected….why? Because it worked?

you don’t have too enjoy things too respect them.

Winning isn't winning. Or do you think Di Matteo's Chelsea was as good as Klopp's Liverpool?

 

[kolli]

If you have greater individual quality, you make it count instead of betting on fortuna.



It doesn't matter if it is difficult to pull off or not. You have to be lucky to get through. It's a decent way to fight uphill battles because in those cases betting on luck increases your chances to win.

Would you say Mourinho is a coach that makes a team punch above its weight?



Winning isn't winning. Or do you think Di Matteo's Chelsea was as good as Klopp's Liverpool?

How is winning not winning?
Is it not impressive that Otto Rehhagel won the Euro's with Greece because their brand of football was ugly?
Does anyone care why they won?

Did Inter not deserve to win the Champions League in 2010 by (according to your definition) fluking their way into the final?

 

[Sakura]

The Mou haters are just a weird bunch, always insisting that the man is a terrible manager despite boatloads of evidence of the contrary.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I'm really happy for him

There are reasons to dislike him, and I'm not sure he was the most professional in his final season here, but I only wish him well. I hope he wins in Europe again.

 

[Mercurial]

Hope he bag's it again! Well done Mou & Roma. Gotta be happy for the Roma fans.

 

[Red the Bear]

If you have greater individual quality, you make it count instead of betting on fortuna.



It doesn't matter if it is difficult to pull off or not. You have to be lucky to get through. It's a decent way to fight uphill battles because in those cases betting on luck increases your chances to win.

Would you say Mourinho is a coach that makes a team punch above its weight?



Winning isn't winning. Or do you think Di Matteo's Chelsea was as good as Klopp's Liverpool?

He certainly did so with Porto, an incredible achievement what he did with them but at his peak he also did prove capable of making a great team reach it's potential as he did so with Chelsea and almost did with Madrid not to mention what he did with inter do so again it didn't have much to do with luck and if anything he got mostly unlucky with Chelsea and Madrid in Europe.

 

[shamans]

See, I kind of disagree about Mourinho tweaking for each game. (also about him being mature but that's a whole different discussion)

In his own way, he's as 'dogmatic' and stubborn as Guardiola. He doesn't want to play on the front foot ever, if he can avoid it. He wants to spoil the game first and foremost. Even when that's not the best idea - it's why he managed to crash out of the CL against a 10-man PSG, why he tried to sit on a 2-1 lead at the Bernabeu against Bayern and paid the price for it, it's why we got whacked by Sevilla at Old Trafford.

I meant mature tactically not as a person.

We'll be splitting hairs here but what you point out is true for any big manager. They all get it wrong as Mourinho has as well but I don't see him as one to park the bus by default. If he is convinced the team needs to attack he will and up until his time at Madrid at times his teams were more than capable at scoring goals. I think the idea of him being some rich mans Tony Pulis is a bit exaggerated.

Mourinho is far from a perfect coach but I admire his strengths from a football perspective. Not sure if that makes me a Mourinho fanboy even though I celebrated so much the day he got sacked. He was terrible for us but as a tactician/manager I sure as hell appreciate him.

 

[Champ]

Why do people have to be labelled fans' of someone all the time just because they accept that what they are doing is pretty decent?

Can't people just accept that Jose is doing a decent job at Roma without bringing his United tenure or other tenures into account?

Why also feel the need to then 'call out' people as wanting him back, or being Jose fan boys for congratulating him on (yet) another European final?

Just sad really.

 

[Zehner]

How is winning not winning?
Is it not impressive that Otto Rehhagel won the Euro's with Greece because their brand of football was ugly?
Does anyone care why they won?

Did Inter not deserve to win the Champions League in 2010 by (according to your definition) fluking their way into the final?

Negative football =/= fluking. If you constantly create more chances than your opponent by playing negative football, it is indeed impressive albeit not entertaining. If you make a team punch above its weight by playing negative football it is also impressive. But neither is the case with Mourinho in the last 10 years or so. Roma was lucky to go through against an individually worse opponent.

And even if nobody wants to hear it, yes, Mourinho was indeed lucky to get past Barca with Inter. Would be curious how the xG values of those games would look like.

 

[shamans]

Very weird indeed. And they’ve sort of vindicated themselves because “he was proven right about pogba/martial”….even though he signed the one for huge money and being right about some things doesn’t necessarily mean he still wasn’t a toxic twat who blamed everyone except himself….

Basically this.

I actually don’t mind him and always liked Roma (thank you Totti) so wouldn’t mind him beating Sevilla. But the kind of worship he gets on here is a little crazy.

He was a toxic twat indeed and I have never seen a United manager throw players under the bus the way he did (or any top manager in a long while?) but what is wrong with saying he was 100% right about Martial and Pogba long before most of us were? I like to mention that because I myself was one of the pro Pogba/Martial fans but in the end Mourinho was right about that.

Things aren't black and white. Clearly Mourinho is a great coach if he's operating at the level he has been for decades but obviously he has his flaws. He is mentally very weak, can get rattled and act like a petulant child.

It's just today he won a game in classic Mourinho fashion and I genuinely see more people calling out said "worshipers" than those worshiping unless I missed it.

The playacting and timewasting is really annoying and something should be done about it. But playing that negative is legit albeit very boring and I wouldn't want such a manager anywhere near the team I support. Still, I never really respect titles that are won this way. It's always a fluke and simply banking on your luck that no shot goes in and you hit a lucky punch. It's not really reproducable and only works in cups.

It's also a bit ambitionless if not to say embarassing that a club of Roma's size sets up like this against Leverkusen. If they played like this against us, how would Mourinho set up against City? Stabbing every ball in the stadium with a knife to win a draw at the green table?

This is ridiculous. If you had said it doesn't play well with building a team as you can stagnate and constantly need a batch of fresh players, it would make sense but to call it a fluke?

Everything in football has an element of luck even Klopps side are banking on increasing their odds of scoring rather than conceding.

 

[Siorac]

We'll be splitting hairs here but what you point out is true for any big manager. They all get it wrong as Mourinho has as well but I don't see him as one to park the bus by default. If he is convinced the team needs to attack he will and up until his time at Madrid at times his teams were more than capable at scoring goals. I think the idea of him being some rich mans Tony Pulis is a bit exaggerated.

I should clarify: I agree that it's mostly post-Madrid Mourinho that is unreasonably stubborn and overly focused on being negative for the sake of it.

 

[shamans]

Why do people have to be labelled fans' of someone all the time just because they accept that what they are doing is pretty decent?

Can't people just accept that Jose is doing a decent job at Roma without bringing his United tenure or other tenures into account?

Why also feel the need to then 'call out' people as wanting him back, or being Jose fan boys for congratulating him on (yet) another European final?

Just sad really.

Mourinho does have his group of fans. Often casual fans online who like to throw the "he wasn't backed" narrative so I get some people get sensitive at any praise towards a manager who was spinning the whole narrative of his failures on anything but himself.

...but let it go. Who cares. We have a new top class manager now can we not praise a player/manager if we want! I even want to see Pogba, Lukaku, Lingard do well in their team and I'll praise them for their skills doesn't mean I want them here.

 

[shamans]

I should clarify: I agree that it's mostly post-Madrid Mourinho that is unreasonably stubborn and overly focused on being negative for the sake of it.

Well I'd argue to the extent of that. I think he was like that at United which is why it's fresh in our minds. I think he's not suited for a club like us at all but then again I thought he'd do well for someone like Totenham -- a club that's not so big but think they are. That didn't end up so well either.

 

[Ish]

Same. He may have acted like a cnut towards the end of his tenure, but iirc he never disrespected the fans so I have no hate towards the man. It's his acolytes that can be unbearable at times, almost as if they're living off of his successes.

Love that word . Yeah, i think the toxicity at the end of his tenure was just unbearable. Also, the only comment i think that really grated me was the "heritage" one, which was disrespectful to the club and fans - again absolving himself from any blame. Also the public Shaw comments about "his body, my mind" and stuff....just ridiculous really.

Anyhow i'm quite indifferent towards him. Found him entertaining at times - moreso when he trolled Liverpool but also never really wanted him at the club, albeit gave him a chance when he was first appointed. Oh well. Still hope they do Sevilla though.

 

[Ish]

He was a toxic twat indeed and I have never seen a United manager throw players under the bus the way he did (or any top manager in a long while?) but what is wrong with saying he was 100% right about Martial and Pogba long before most of us were? I like to mention that because I myself was one of the pro Pogba/Martial fans but in the end Mourinho was right about that.

Wadup sham? How you bud?

Think i explained it quite well in my post - unless of course, i didn't

I meant that "just because he was right about Pogba and Martial....doesn't quite vindicate their (his "fans") stance that he was somehow hard done by/a victim of his time wit us" - i.e. both could be true - he was right about that but he was also a toxic twat who deserved to get the sack.

Think we both agree on that, actually.

 

[shamans]

Wadup sham? How you bud?

Think i explained it quite well in my post - unless of course, i didn't

I meant that "just because he was right about Pogba and Martial....doesn't quite vindicate their (his "fans") stance that he was somehow hard done by/a victim of his time wit us" - i.e. both could be true - he was right about that but he was also a toxic twat who deserved to get the sack.

Think we both agree on that, actually.

Yep. He was definitely not hard done by and that's just what Mourinho has always been. He likes to play the victim card or call himself the underdog. I think Mourinho knows his "aura" is a big advantage to his managing style -- calling himself the special one and having this cult leader sort of personality. That's how he can get players that are extremely loyal to him: Zlatan, Lukaku, Matic, Terry, Lampard.

So when things at United went tits up because of his miserable transfers and decisions, he only wanted to protect himself and his image over the club. I think most fans saw through it but of course some (few on this website honestly) still claim "he wasn't backed!". His football heritage video is still one of the cringiest out there talking about how years from now we'll see Matic and Lukaku at the club...

Idea of vindication is silly. He failed at United even if he goes on to win 10 back to back CL's with Roma the United era will be a failure.

 

[Gandalf]

He should have done better at Serie A, this was the perfect season for a top 4 spot if you bare in mind the amount of points Inter and Milan lost this season.
Roma bottled it in Serie A but if they win Europa League the average domestic campaign will be forgiven.

That is a pretty harsh assessment considering that if you look at their respective squads the Milan clubs, Juve and Napoli undoubtedly have more talent at their disposal than Roma so 5th place would be about par which is likely where they will end up. If you add in that Roma have effectviely been decimated by injuries in the last two months they are doing pretty well to be where they are. Despite winning a trophy last season Roma have effectively had to go for loans and free signings in the last couple of windows due to FFP and overspending mostly in the years prior to Jose joining when they won the sum total of nothing.

Roma are doing well with that they have and Jose has been exactly what they needed after years of being beaten down, he has a knack for taking cast offs and also rans and forging them into a team. It is not a question of loving Jose to state a fact, he is doing a good job and if he wins back to back European trophies with the resources that he has at Roma he deserves to be recognized as a legend at that club. I also think it is fair to say he would struggle at a big club nowadays because his methods will not work with superstars and his ego will not allow any player to outshine him.

 

[giorno]

No he is not… He went out of Coppa Italia losing at home to Cremomese and he is 6 points behind the main objective of the season (top 4).

so did Napoli. The main objective of the season is qualifying for the CL. They're one win away from it

Given 5/6 years he would certainly have won it ultimately both for Madrid and for City… He got Madrid very close to the final after years of mediocrity in Europe.

this kind of talk is astounding to me. People really don't seem to realize just how hard it is to win the CL. Guardiola, coaching Barcelona, Bayern and City, hasn't won it in 10 seasons. SAF won it twice in 25 years with United. Capello won it once with Milan, Lippi won it once with Juventus, Mourinho himself won it twice while coaching Chelsea, Inter and Real Madrid over a span on 9 seasons, and with its 2 weakest teams to boot

I get it normalizing the exceptional is human nature, but seriously. The normal, even with the best team in the world, is you maybe win it once if you're lucky

If you remove the adrenaline that being in a European final gave to Roma fans, and make an objective evaluation, you can't really consider this season as good. They already failed one of the main goals (top 4 position and CL qualification), but if they make it via Europa League win then people will say it was an amazing achievement despite the fact that in domestic competitions the objectives were not completed.

The main goal is qualifying for CL and they're one win away from it. This is absolutely a great season so far. Their results have also generally been worse than they deserved, they had to deal with injuries to key players all season long and theit strikers couldn't score in a brothel

Roma was lucky to go through against an individually worse opponent.

How were Roma individually better exactly?

 

[Ish]

Yep. He was definitely not hard done by and that's just what Mourinho has always been. He likes to play the victim card or call himself the underdog. I think Mourinho knows his "aura" is a big advantage to his managing style -- calling himself the special one and having this cult leader sort of personality. That's how he can get players that are extremely loyal to him: Zlatan, Lukaku, Matic, Terry, Lampard.

So when things at United went tits up because of his miserable transfers and decisions, he only wanted to protect himself and his image over the club. I think most fans saw through it but of course some (few on this website honestly) still claim "he wasn't backed!". His football heritage video is still one of the cringiest out there talking about how years from now we'll see Matic and Lukaku at the club...

Idea of vindication is silly. He failed at United even if he goes on to win 10 back to back CL's with Roma the United era will be a failure.

Yep pretty much agreed