He could be let go from Spurs after five years of trophies and you’d still hear “I told you so”
Jose Mourinho Sack Watch | Sacked per 19-04
- Thread starter ArjenIsM3
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Spurs aren't really a big club though.
Why? I'm not saying compared to other clubs, but inside the club you have to sense that winning feeling right now? I assume you didn't hire Mourinho to not win you the league? You're definitely in a process, but a huge trophy would be nice wouldn't it? I've not been saying it's impossible, I'm saying if Mourinho was Man Utd manager right now in that position I would expect him to win the league considering his reputation. I know it's not that easy managing Spurs and the possibility to bottle any chance is quite high. However, if Mourinho isn't expected to win the league I don't know what he is even supposed to do with Spurs. Biggest chance he'll get is this season.
I don’t think anyone in their right mind expected Spurs to win the league this season. I certainly wouldn’t have them down as favourites even now.
I understand advocating that they have belief in themselves or those in leadership roles expressing belief as a possible way to improve their chances and increase confidence although taking pressure off and playing down one's chances is a viable psychological tool too.
Not sure where bottling it comes in unless they end up well clear and collapse as nobody really expects them to win it.
Not sure where bottling it comes in unless they end up well clear and collapse as nobody really expects them to win it.
I'm not putting them down as favourites over everyone else, I'm saying in the position they're in, with Mourinho, they should expect it. Totally different from saying they are big favourites and always was, they weren't. However, I would consider it a bottle job if they do drop off down the table eventually, and at that point I'd question what Mourinho can realistically do after that other than continue to be mediocre. The fans, the club should want to win it this season or come close enough to build on it the following season.
You claim a lot.
You claim that Spurs, a club which hasn't won the league in 60 years, which hasn't won a trophy for 12, which finished 6th last season and has the 6th biggest wage bill in the league should expect to win the league in the position we're in now.
This position is not with 3 matches left and 6 points ahead. Or even 15 matches left and 5 points ahead. It's 27 matches left and top only on goal difference, to a team that has in the last 2 seasons has won almost 100 points each season and won a league and CL.
And that if we don't win it from this position (cos we all know leagues are won after 11 games on goal difference) , the only explanation can, of course, be bottling it.
All the other stuff you've just said in that post wasn't in the prior one and not what I'm talking about in the slightest.
The last part is a totally fair point when you put it like that. I'm adding or explaining why the things I said wasn't ment to be that ridiculous. The things you read into my post is obviously not what I ment. From the position you're in you should expect to win the league, having Mourinho as a coach. If you want to break the cycle of 60 years without a league title you have to face reality that you can't bottle good positions like this forever. At some point you'll have to change your expectation. Obviously I agree it's too early to predict the league and nobody really think it's possible for Spurs to win the league under Mourinho also because of the shape you're in, but if you don't have faith in Mourinho at this point what was the point in acquiring him for the management position?
If Mourinho can't win the league with Spurs but just keeps them around top 6 that's perfectly acceptable, and honestly what I want to happen. However, I don't get why Spurs fans are so reluctant to put some shine on Mourinho's name. Does he need more time, a better squad?
I can understand how as a fan of the club (especially given the fact you guys still haven't won anything), you can tolerate or even admire this style of football, but the question though is if at the end you still end up not winning anything, will you continue supporting it ?
As for the big club argument, i guess it depends on one's definition of a big club. But one thing's for sure though, Spurs isn't as big as Chelsea, City, Arsenal, and certainly not Liverpool and United. I don't think Spurs is as big as Everton or Newcastle either (though Spurs have clearly been better than these 2 on the pitch for several years now).
There are only seven clubs world-wide with a larger income - and none of these have a better stadium or training centre. Do you think Mourinho would sign up with a club not seen as big? No, he wouldn't.
My god this board abuses the word bottling.
Considering there can only be a maximum of 2 winners of 'big' continental trophies per season across Europe and one league winner per season, that leaves a lot of clubs who are bottling it consistently.
No we shouldn't expect to win the league with Mourinho in the current position. We are literally less than a third of the way into the season. We don't know how far we'll go into Europe. We don't know what will happen with covid. We don't know what will happen with injuries. We don't know what will happen with other clubs. We've not steamed ahead, we are 0 points ahead of Liverpool, 2 ahead of Chelsea, 5 and 6 ahead of the two Manchester clubs, having played a game more. All of whom finished ahead of us last season.
Bottle situations like this forever? I think this is the first time we've been top of the table this far into the season since the 70s or 80s I think
. So nobody expects Spurs to win the league and its too early to predict the league but if we don't win, it's a bottlejob?
I think the issue, as usual, is a lack of nuance with discussions like this. I doubt Mourinho was hired explicitly to win the league, in a Real Madrid style 'if you don't win you're fired way'. But I imagine he was hired to win trophies and change the mentality at the club in general. If the trophies he (hopefully) ends up winning are more like EL/CL/PL, as opposed to FA or league Cup, then amazing.
There is of course also an in between between immediately winning the league in his first full season and just milling around the top 4. I loved Poch and I don't think he bottled it as such. But we had 3 opportunities I think across his tenure to go top of the table, even if only on a temporary basis and failed every time. The fact we've even made it to the top and stayed for a few weeks (whilst playing the games that would apparently sink us) is already progress.
That isn't to say I don't want the manager, the players and everyone else ah the club to currently be wanting to and thinking about winning every single trophy they can this season.
Totally fair points mate. I think my initial points had nuance to them though, which this actual response to it now showed.My god this board abuses the word bottling.
Considering there can only be a maximum of 2 winners of 'big' continental trophies per season across Europe and one league winner per season, that leaves a lot of clubs who are bottling it consistently.
No we shouldn't expect to win the league with Mourinho in the current position. We are literally less than a third of the way into the season. We don't know how far we'll go into Europe. We don't know what will happen with covid. We don't know what will happen with injuries. We don't know what will happen with other clubs. We've not steamed ahead, we are 0 points ahead of Liverpool, 2 ahead of Chelsea, 5 and 6 ahead of the two Manchester clubs, having played a game more. All of whom finished ahead of us last season.
Bottle situations like this forever? I think this is the first time we've been top of the table this far into the season since the 70s or 80s I think
So nobody expects Spurs to win the league and its too early to predict the league but if we don't win, it's a bottlejob?
I think the issue, as usual, is a lack of nuance with discussions like this. I doubt Mourinho was hired explicitly to win the league, in a Real Madrid style 'if you don't win you're fired way'. But I imagine he was hired to win trophies and change the mentality at the club in general. If the trophies he (hopefully) ends up winning are more like EL/CL/PL, as opposed to FA or league Cup, then amazing.
There is of course also an in between between immediately winning the league in his first full season and just milling around the top 4. I loved Poch and I don't think he bottled it as such. But we had 3 opportunities I think across his tenure to go top of the table, even if only on a temporary basis and failed every time. The fact we've even made it to the top and stayed for a few weeks (whilst playing the games that would apparently sink us) is already progress.
That isn't to say I don't want the manager, the players and everyone else ah the club to currently be wanting to and thinking about winning every single trophy they can this season.
That's exactly what I find funny.
"We've appointed Mourinho because he wins, we can play as boring as he likes aslong he gets the results"
"Fair enough, guess that means he has to actually win then or its failure"
"Um but, but, but, but........"
How is that funny? You realise there is something in-between winning a league title (and expecting to be a league winner after being top on GD after 11 games) or it being utter failure for a club that hasn't won a league title in 60 years and no trophies at all for 12?
Not to mention that most Spurs fans are pretty upfront about the fact that if Mourinho leaves after 3 years, having played shit on a stick football throughout all that time, and having won no trophies, it would be difficult to see his tenure as a resounding success?
Because when you appoint a manager like Mou, winning (and big) is literally the only trade off. With the way he plays and focus on the now at all costs there can't be any "we lost but...." like there could have been with Pochettino.
On paper you're right you shouldn't be "expected" to win it, but on paper Inter shouldn't have been "expected" to win the CL, but Mou was appointed to do just that and the success or failure of his tenure in Inter pretty much solely depended on him doing it. When you appoint a winner who's MO is win now the expectations naturally increase.
Are we going to have to listen to all this shit for a whole season? Opposition fans think he will do what he always does, Spurs fans happy at this moment in time, that's basically it.
Except as I've pointed out above, the average age of the players we've recruited so far goes against this idea that Mourinho will focus on the now at all costs.
Inter weren't expected to win the CL and its a ridiculous statement to say that the success or failure of his tenure at Inter depended on it. Its expected at Barcelona that they win la liga, its why a chain of highly forgettable managers have done just that and been moved on anyway. Its expected at Real Madrid that they win the CL, hence why they've fired managers who win the league. It is not expected at Inter to win the CL, as its not expected at Spurs to win the league.
It doesn't mean you don't aim for those things. It doesn't mean the expectations don't go up.
My own personal expectations: I want Mourinho to change the mentality at the club so that success is normal. I want him to win big matches, both in the league and in cup matches. I want to win a trophy or two, to get the winning attitude at this club. I wanted to move away from Poch's ridiculous policy of refusing loans to highly talented youth players.
My expectations differ based on the club I support. If I happened to support a club with Chelsea or Man Utd's much more substantial budgets, I would expect big trophies from a Mourinho appointment and anything else I'd class a failure.
If we do play nothing but negative football (we don't) for 3 years and win only 1 league cup or even 2 league cups, then I'd be pretty happy but I personally wouldn't class that a successful tenure.
Until today, I'd pretty much avoided the Spurs threads on here and stuck to the CE stuff. Which I find more interesting anyway....They can get strangely tetchy on here at the best of times and with the general attitude on here to Mourinho, I can't imagine there's going to be many positive comments for the next couple of years.
Pretty much. You'll find it similar with your fanbase if you stop winning. The way he plays, these days, people have very little patience for his style if you're not winning things.
He hasnt even been here for a full seaon though, we have played our biggest rivals recently but no one seems to see that. Its getting boring.
Hey, I'm with you. I think the stick Mourinho gets is completely unwarranted. Just he's an easy target these days.
As long as Mou delivers top 4, it is mission accomplished for Levy and Spurs. People underestimate the importance to establish as a top 4 club in terms of finance. Mou himself for sure want to win a trophy to keep his record going as well. There is only top 4, no top 6. the drop in revenue is huge outside of top 4.
What exactly does something like this mean?
(reading this while watching Utd down 2-0 in the CL and wondering what the trade off is in that game because so far we're not winning)
I could argue Reguillon is despite his youth basically a glorified loan, if he keeps this form up there's not a cat in hells chance Madrid don't activate his buy back clause unless Zidane survives which is looking unlikely. It's not even an insulting thing to Mou, he's incredible at bringing the quick success but his (lack of) ability to last beyond 2/3 season's was exposed to the world at Chelsea and too an extent United, so with that in mind, you surely look to squeeze everything you can out of him while you get his best self? He like every manager has his strengths and weaknesses, you wouldn't employ a manager (Klopp for example) known for needing time to build his team in his proper great imagine and expect him to win immediately, so why appoint a manager who's one of the best at getting success straight away and not demand it? I mean ofcourse it's technically possible he'll break the mould at Spurs, but history suggests it's highly unlikely.
Regarding Inter they were already smashing Serie A under Mancini and with a not so great squad (in the context of Europe) and would have likely carried on doing so regardless, so it made no sense to get in Mou and give him Eto'o, Milito, Lucio etc if they only planned to keep up their domestic dominance as they could have done that with a cheaper manager and players.
You could argue that all you wanted but it's irrelevant because I said recruited, not purchased. 3 of the (non Reguilon) players we've recruited since Jose has arrived have been loans. Include him as a loan if you want, it doesn't change the mean value at all.
You appoint a manager who's known for achieving success because Spurs have had no success in terms of trophies for a while. And when it comes to big trophies, even longer. I'm not saying we don't want him to win trophies, simply that deeming his tenure a failure if he doesn't win the title this season is reactive nonsense. We hired Mourinho to improve the team and hopefully to push us that final step to win trophies. I'm pretty sure Everton haven't hired Ancelotti to win the league or the CL only.
Not many managers last more than 3 seasons these days, Mourinho is not an outlier in that regard. If I'm remembering correctly, only Ranieri has lasted marginally longer than him under Roman.
God knows why Inter fans worship him them if he only met expectations to do what he did there.... You can do things to try to maximise your chance of achieving an aim... Without that being an explicit aim. And most importantly, without that aim being a failure if it isn't achieved.
Some of you lads don't half talk some shite when it comes to Jose.
Didn't crash down at Porto and Inter. Spurs situation and conditions are more similar to Porto and Inter rather than Sacking club like Chelsea / Madrid ( we all know fat frank & zidane is gone this season if they didn't win anything despite how harmless & pure they are ) or circus like United. He will be fine here and probably ends like he did at Porto / Inter, as a legend.
You have been playing dross football for the last 2 years and won nothing.
You can also say that Reguilon is a free player for 2 years if Madrid exercise their buy back clause. He isn't loan , he is free , Madrid will pay us 2x than what we paid for him which enough to cover all his salary for 2 years as well and we even still profitting from it. It's nice to have free players contributing week in week out , even nicer if he helped us winning the league.
I don't get this line of criticism. "If Mourinho doesn't win then things will go south" I mean, yeah? Is there any coach in the world who fans would tolerate if he's not winning? If Ole, Arteta, Lampard had their team playing the most beautiful football but finished 6th without a trophy they'd be out on their arse as soon as the season was over. And if they played the most tumescent football but won the league and did the double who of their fans would be calling for the sack? The same standard applies to any manager and people are kidding them if they think otherwise.
Mourinho will be a success if he gets Spurs their first trophy since 2008 plus top four, and then pushes on next season. Same as any manager. If we bomb out of the cups and fail to get CL football then he'll be facing questions about his job. Same as any manager. Results will decide everything: for Ole, Arteta, Lampard, Guardiola, Klopp and every other manager too.
I think at Spurs he has much more authority than he had at `united. The Spurs team is becoming very interesting to watch tactically. `it is serious business in how they play now. No more larking about as under `poch.
My point was if you go on a run mid season where results start to dry up, things go south very quickly with mourinho and people turn on him quicker, calling for him to go. Also you can't tell me that if mourinho was in arteta's position now, he'd be basically halfway out the door for some people.
I'm not agreeing with it, I think Mou gets a rough deal in that respect.
Liverpool gave Klopp 4 years before winning something and the fans never came close to turning on him.Same all those years ago with Fergie, and look how that turned out as well.
Too many clubs and their fans want almost instant success and expect managers to come into a club and wave a magic wand. Even Utd are falling for this mistake now.
Klopp showed a demonstrable improvement in results and performances through those 4 years though. And if I remember correctly, Liverpool had reached rock bottom before he rocked up so perhaps the fans were more forgiving generally. Ferguson was seemingly not far off getting fired at the time and, in the current climate, most likely would have been fired before getting to win all those trophies.
I agree that too many fans are stuck in this idea that success should come instantly now.
Anyone who is confident Spurs would win the title this season should put serious money on as the odds is still 6 right now. The bookies obviously don't think Jose can win the title with Spurs. I'll wait till Christmas to decide but I think top 4 is almost a lock for Spurs.
They are 100% working on it. Stadium incredible. Decent sized fan base. Best squad they have had in a long long time (ever in recent memory). A motivated mourinho... not saying they will win the league but they are really on to something. Also a tough owner who loves the club and has a long term strategy.
Thanks, I get so much sporting advice from bookies and now that you have re-affirmed that a betting agency puts out a market on a scenario I can sleep easy knowing they won't be winning the title.
Liverpool have a significantly better team than Spurs, so I think 6 -1 is actually pretty stingy. When Leicester won it was a perfect storm and all the top teams were pretty shite that year but still a huge achievement. For me, if this Spurs team were to finish above this Liverpool team, it would be as big a shock as Leicester's title win .
Don't forget out training ground as well which is the best training facilities all of teams in the league.
Literally our best chance of winning the league this year more so then the Leicester year... We have to win this league year for Harry's sake(Kane)
I agree with you. Love or hate levy, he is taking the club forward.
I don’t really want you to win it (I’m a United fan) and Jose would be unbareable.. however.. you are the lesser of two evils (Liverpool/city) and fair play to the club for overtaking Arsenal. I guess if you win it then it’s what you deserve
I know rival fans would prefer to credit Poch for Kane and Son being world class , but Spurs fans know better that they are world class because of Jose Mourinho. Harry Kane is now leading top assist all around Europe which he never did, and Son only need 4 more goals to match his best ever tally in EPL , with 27 games left. His best was 14 goals in the league , but under Mourinho you can bet your money that he can hit 25 at least , possibly more.
You could argue that Mourinho got a hold of them just as they entered their prime years. Son was 27 and Kane was 26. Good timing.
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