Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Womp]

I was addressing the missed chance…

Also with Pogba in team we still went back to ball hoofing in some matches.

Missed chance was a terrible finish as it was right at him, but I wasn't talking about that. I don't blame Lukaku for that chance, he was having a woeful game so it wasn't surprising he'd miss that. He should have been taken off and Jose was wrong to keep him on as long as he did. Not Lukaku's fault he wasn't taken off much earlier.

Everyone hoofballs at times, City were hoofballing today on several occasions. It's a quick way to bypass the press and midfield. How many times did walker bomb the ball up field today? Countless. The fact of the matter is that without Pogba our midfield gets overloaded, they crack under the press and we lose the game. In these big games the midfield battle is the decider and we simply just can't compete in that regard without Pogba.

 

[Viral United]

I'm not saying Perisic would have fixed that problem, I'm giving you possible proof as to why we maybe didn't have funds to buy a midfielder. Like I said, we had a lot of positions in the squad that needed to be improved, in fact I'd argue our fullbacks could still be improved, maybe a number 10 and a right winger too. We are playing Rashford out right who simply isn't ever going to be good there.

We don't have unlimited funds.

Yes we don't have unlimited funds, what I am saying he had enough fund to buy a players.
If he is still missing players than he has to find solutions, he has enough time here to do that.

 

[Fracture90]

Im also not being defeatist, rather realist, and wish all our fans had the maturity to accept such.

Being the best of the best takes a lot of hrs work and many year to achieve.

Facts are facts: we bungled the post SAF era, City got head and that gap is what’s keeping them ahead right now.

I refuse to believe that hoof the ball upfront is the only way forward against any opposition that is capable of stringing 2 passes together.

 

[MJJ]

Don't think he is to blame here.
He picked the best players and at the start of the game folks were happy with 4 attackers

We just played awful. 2 awful goals two mistakes terrible.

The problem was we had zero composure anywhere. We never played one good ball into the channels for any of our front 3 to run on to instead they were lofted balls up in the air with no threat. That's ok the players

Its not the players on the teamsheet, its the mentality.

 

[Fracture90]

The temp ban was probably automatic for an accumulation of points. He will be back in a couple of days.

Was it because he used the word "clown"?

 

[Kush]

There's literally nothing wrong with that being true.

I was happy with the line up. It also told me nothing about how we would play and how it seemed Mourinho had set us up. The line up is just a selection of your players (ideally your better players). We can criticise anything we like after kick off provided it's not the selection of players.

I’m genuinely curious what you expected after seeing the lineup?

I was worried immediately as I thought we’d struggle to cope with their midfield and 5 mins into the game I knew I was right. Also, we’ve struggled against press for as long as I’ve watched us. Having all those attackers is of little use if you can’t get the ball to reach them. Our CBs and CMs couldnt even keep ball for 5 seconds, anytime a blue shirt was near them it was an aimless long punt forward. Do people really think Mourinho is such a buffoon he specifically instructed them to blindly punt it long at every opportunity? Our players simply lack composure in key moments hence why I mentioned we are not ready yet because there are lots of holes to fix.

 

[Fracture90]

Missed chance was a terrible finish as it was right at him, but I wasn't talking about that. I don't blame Lukaku for that chance, he was having a woeful game so it wasn't surprising he'd miss that. He should have been taken off and Jose was wrong to keep him on as long as he did. Not Lukaku's fault he wasn't taken off much earlier.

Last year has taught us that he will never sub off his favorite player, even when that player is having an absolute stinker.

 

[MJJ]

Im also not being defeatist, rather realist, and wish all our fans had the maturity to accept such.

Being the best of the best takes a lot of hrs work and many year to achieve.

Facts are facts: we bungled the post SAF era, City got head and that gap is what’s keeping them ahead right now.

Both teams finished on similar points last season and according to most of our fanbase, we had the "better" season.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Love the guy but don't think he had the best of games today. Genuinely disappointed in that first half - entirely reminiscent of the last time he lost to Guardiola at Old Trafford. Second half was a big improvement and sure Pogba was always going to be a huge miss but that first half, man, that was some poor stuff.

 

[Trophy Room]

He's the second best manager in the world. Unfortunately, I have a feeling he'll be off soon. I still think he's the only one that can win a league against a peak Pep team.

 

[Womp]

Last year has taught us that he will never sub off his favorite player, even when that player is having an absolute stinker.

That's one thing that irks me. That being said, if he was to take Lukaku off after that performance any little confidence he still had left would be completely shot. So it's a double edged sword.

 

[Minimalist]

I’m genuinely curious what you expected after seeing the lineup?

I was worried immediately as I thought we’d struggle to cope with their midfield and 5 mins into the game I knew I was right. Also, we’ve struggled against press for as long as I’ve watched us. Having all those attackers is of little use if you can’t get the ball to reach them. Our CBs and CMs couldnt even keep ball for 5 seconds, anytime a blue shirt was near them it was an aimless long punt forward. Do people really think Mourinho is such a buffoon he specifically instructed them to blindly punt it long at every opportunity? Our players simply lack composure in key moments hence why I mentioned we are not ready yet because there are lots of holes to fix.

I expected us to play better when we did have the ball. I expected City to have more of the ball but not the huge domination (first half) that we saw.

I thought Herrera and Matic will sit and our wide players will take us up the pitch. We literally pumped it back to them over and over again from the back. I didn't expect us to play like we did at all.

 

[dichinero]

Both teams finished on similar points last season and according to most of our fanbase, we had the "better" season.

At the start of the each of the last 2 seasons, the tune has changed yet again.

 

[Raoul]

Mourinho is not to blame for today. City were simply better on a day when our best striker is well off form and our best player is out to suspension.

 

[Dobbs]

The fact is that City had won every single game bar one this season, and it's almost Christmas. Even a peak Fergie team would be struggling to keep up with that sort of pace. We are the best of the rest as it stands, and that's something to be pretty pleased with given our last few seasons.

Nah. If Fergie had the money our current and last manager had he'd be right up there with City.

Again though it comes down to the same old argument on here. It's not just the result, it's how we go about games. At some point Mourinho will have to realise this safety first approach doesn't work in the big games. You have to play some football.

 

[Womp]

Both teams finished on similar points last season and according to most of our fanbase, we had the "better" season.

We had the better season because we won more trophies, not because we were the better side.

 

[Fracture90]

That's one thing that irks me. That being said, if he was to take Lukaku off after that performance any little confidence he still had left would be completely shot. So it's a double edged sword.

Problem starts with our gameplan.

Get your team to play some attacking football, get them some possession, get your striker some touches that aren't just hoof ball scraps and his touch will improve, his confidence and ultimately his final product.

 

[Ace of Spades]

I think blaming the players can only go to a certain point. In the end, managers have far greater effect to their teams than players ever can.

If Jose managed this City team, would they be as good as they are under Pep, or play the type of football they have been playing. Can anyone really expect Jose to play a midfield three of KDB, Silva and Fernandinho ??

The Herrera-Matic partnership has not worked all season, so why not try something different instead of the same failed pairing and hoping they could suddenly produce something different.

We can improve our team with new players, but if we keep playing with such a negative mentality then we will just see more of the same.

 

[MJJ]

We had the better season because we won more trophies, not because we were the better side.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/do-we-have-the-best-xi-in-england-now.432101/

 

[Womp]

Problem starts with our gameplan.

Get your team to play some attacking football, get them some possession, get your striker some touches that aren't just hoof ball scraps and his touch will improve, his confidence and ultimately his final product.

Like I said - I don't think the issue was as much as the game-plan as the available personnel. City have the best midfield in the league, comparable to the best in the world. You're not going to be able to implement a positive gameplan when you're playing a midfield two of two holding midfielders. It's wishful thinking. Could we have been more positive? Absolutely, but we would have got trounced. I said as much the second Pogba saw red against Arsenal, we weren't winning against City. We just can't initiate anything without him. He carries the ball forward, he plays the balls into the channel, he's the one who can overcome the press and take create space for attackers with skill. He's the one who garners attention from defensive players due to his goalscoring threat.

Why we're so reliant on one player you could argue is down to Jose not buying a replacement playmaker, but that's a completely different argument.

 

[SAFicus]

We should remember we were without Pogba and Bailly today for what it's worth.

 

[Womp]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/do-we-have-the-best-xi-in-england-now.432101/

Go look at the threads in preseason. People were gutted with the transfer activity City were making. They thought we'd be close to them but that they'd win the title. Any other season we would have been close to them.

 

[prath92]

Are people expecting us to genuinely take our striker off when we are chasing a goal? Are you people for real?

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I think blaming the players can only go to a certain point. In the end, managers have far greater effect to their teams than players ever can.

If Jose managed this City team, would they be as good as they are under Pep, or play the type of football they have been playing. Can anyone really expect Jose to play a midfield three of KDB, Silva and Fernandinho ??

The Herrera-Matic partnership has not worked all season, so why not try something different instead of the same failed pairing and hoping they could suddenly produce something different.

We can improve our team with new players, but if we keep playing with such a negative mentality then we will just see more of the same.

Yeah I think Mourinho is obviously a very good manager, but it is hard to complain on the player when you look at the players Mourinho rejected. I think he is getting outdated with his lack of coaching attacking football in terms of movement, moves and ways to open up space.

He did let Salah and Kevin De bruyne go from Chelsea didn't he and also Lukaku. I thought it was very weird at the time as I thought Chelsea had a nice set of players for the future.

They might not have suited his style, but that defensive style is also a big problem for him in the big games these days.

If you give him Salah and De Bruyne we would still look the same or even worse maybe. He got the players he wanted as well. Maybe a winger over Martial would make us better, but it would be the same tactics and no revolution in the way we play.

 

[Garethw]

He’s been a major disappointment so far.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Jose won't ever change. It's clear. It's not about the players he has. This is how he coaches his teams in the big games and lately(despite some success vs Arsenal and Spurs), it barely gets him results.

The dour football without a league title again makes it hard to stomach.

 

[Kush]

Facts are facts: we bungled the post SAF era, City got head and that gap is what’s keeping them ahead right now.

This isn’t mentioned here enough, our squad consists of players accumulated under 4 managers with completely different philosophies. Yet people still use childish logic like Team X spent £200m Team Y also spent same amount so they should be equal or near equal, it’s baffling. Core of City’s team was more or less there before Pep stepped a foot in Manchester, he deserves huge credit for getting them to play according to his liking but attacking options at his disposal was already there.

I expected us to play better when we did have the ball. I expected City to have more of the ball but not the huge domination (first half) that we saw.

I thought Herrera and Matic will sit and our wide players will take us up the pitch. We literally pumped it back to them over and over again from the back. I didn't expect us to play like we did at all.

You expected us to play better but how can we play better if we’re so poor in possession? Build up starts with CBs and it’s midfield job to get the ball to our wide players to push us forward like you said but to do that you have to get basics right like keeping the ball for more than 5 seconds. How can a manager suddenly help them with that?

 

[James Peril]

He’s been a major disappointment so far.

He has not, give me a break man. Give him a window or two and then we're in business,

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Jose won't ever change. It's clear. It's not about the players he has. This is how he coaches his teams in the big games and lately(despite some success vs Arsenal and Spurs), it barely gets him results.

The dour football without a league title again makes it hard to stomach.

Yeah I guess we all know he is defensive, but maybe it feels even more so when we got him as a manager.

 

[Fracture90]

Like I said - I don't think the issue was as much as the game-plan as the available personnel. City have the best midfield in the league, comparable to the best in the world. You're not going to be able to implement a positive gameplan when you're playing a midfield two of two holding midfielders. It's wishful thinking. Could we have been more positive? Absolutely, but we would have got trounced. I said as much the second Pogba saw red against Arsenal, we weren't winning against City. We just can't initiate anything without him. He carries the ball forward, he plays the balls into the channel, he's the one who can overcome the press and take create space for attackers with skill. He's the one who garners attention from defensive players due to his goalscoring threat.

Why we're so reliant on one player you could argue is down to Jose not buying a replacement playmaker, but that's a completely different argument.

If you remember we played this same style of football against every better opposition so far under Mourinho.

 

[Irish Jet]

I love the guy but I have no idea what the plan was in that first half. Everything was awful - We were the home side who needed to win and to show no intensity or intent from the first minute was pretty inexplicable. That changed when we went a goal down but it shouldn't have taken so long.

Then you have the other issue of leaving on Lukaku whose confidence was shot. He was a liability, giving nothing to our play. He should have been taken off immediately after they got the second.

I think his downfall will he his indulgence of Lukaku. Similar to Van Gaal/Rooney he's simply not a good enough player to justify this special treatment.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

This isn’t mentioned here enough, our squad consists of players accumulated under 4 managers with completely different philosophies. Yet people still use childish logic like Team X spent £200m Team Y also spent same amount so they should be equal or near equal, it’s baffling. Core of City’s team was more or less there before Pep stepped a foot in Manchester, he deserves huge credit for getting them to play according to his liking but difference in quality of two respective squad was already there.



You expected us to play better but how can we play better if we’re so poor in possession? Build up starts with CBs and it’s midfield job to get the ball to our wide players to push us forward like you said but to do that you have to get basics right like keeping the ball for more than 5 seconds. How can a manager suddenly help them with that?

We're poor in possession, because Jose bypasses possession in big games. He goes direct as he can to bypass the midfield.

Look at what Napoli did to City a while back during the 1st half in Naples. You don't need Xavi-Iniesta-Messi to be able to keep the ball.

 

[Minimalist]

You expected us to play better but how can we play better if we’re so poor in possession? Build up starts with CBs and it’s midfield job to get the ball to our wide players to push us forward like you said but to do that you have to get basics right like keeping the ball for more than 5 seconds. How can a manager suddenly help them with that?

Well he coaches them. It's what he's paid for but seemingly this is given a complete by-ball by some of our supporters.

This isn't a new thing with Mourinho - we've played like this before against Liverpool and Chelsea as examples (this season, I'll not even go into last season). City just put a real amplifier on it.

 

[Bepi]

He's the second best manager in the world. Unfortunately, I have a feeling he'll be off soon. I still think he's the only one that can win a league against a peak Pep team.

pragmatist managers always morph into trapattoni or the late capello once they lose their swagger and jose is no different, unfortunately... he is building a steady foundational base, though, and united would be probably better appointing a younger manager before he breaks it all... the point is who you do call for carrying on without starting again from scratch

 

[shaky]

Mate, are you going to use number of points to cover the reality of the point difference? Whether we have 35 points or 15 points, the fact still remains that we are 11 points behind after 16 games. How can you paint this any other way?
Bloody hell, 12 points if we are going to add the crazy GD.

I'm not trying to deflect away from the point difference. City are storming away, fair play to them. 2 points dropped out of 48 is ridiculous. Never even been done before, it's so good. Look at other big teams across Europe. Juventus 38 points from 16 games. Bayern 35 points from 15 games. Madrid 31 points from 15 games. They would all be miles behind in their leagues too if they were up against a team crushing it like City are.

We could finish this season with more points than a Utd side has ever collected in the league before, and still end up 20 behind City. Would you still call that a failure and demand a managerial change?

 

[Fracture90]

I think blaming the players can only go to a certain point. In the end, managers have far greater effect to their teams than players ever can.

If Jose managed this City team, would they be as good as they are under Pep, or play the type of football they have been playing. Can anyone really expect Jose to play a midfield three of KDB, Silva and Fernandinho ??

The Herrera-Matic partnership has not worked all season, so why not try something different instead of the same failed pairing and hoping they could suddenly produce something different.

We can improve our team with new players, but if we keep playing with such a negative mentality then we will just see more of the same.

Exactly this.

 

[prath92]

Again the ‘we have played poorly all season’ guys come from under the rocks conveniently forgetting we scored 7 goals in our previous 2 games away from home

 

[notcool]

@Ace of Spades
Don't be silly, mate. Pep is only good because of unlimited money he has to spend.

Yeah I think Mourinho is obviously a very good manager, but it is hard to complain on the player when you look at the players Mourinho rejected. I think he is getting outdated with his lack of coaching attacking football in terms of movement, moves and ways to open up space.

I've heard this a lot and it's a complete 180 (feck, even a 360) to what people were saying about Van Gaal. The complaint then was that he didn't give the players enough freedom, that he shouldn't be coaching the attack. It's complete fickle, whimsical bullshit from the fans.

 

[FanBoyRed]

Where to start. Complained LVG left him a terrible unbalanced squad, yet he's done nothing to fix that. Basically we played with 3 strikers up front with 2 of them asked to play as wingbacks, a less talented park ji-sung, 2 defensive midfielders, and a back 4 with FB's who can't overlap and cross. And then the genius substitution move was to take our only link to midfield off, and play with 4 strikers hoofing the ball. I get that he wants to play on the counter, but if we don't have anyone like Mkhi, Mata, Pogba linking up the play you end up with the garbage we saw today. All that's left then is long ball football

If we are going to play this way might as well get Big Sam, because he for one actually knows how to play long ball. Basically all Mourinho does is organize his team defensively, and then hope Pogba and Co. can make something happen. If it doesn't well then i'm just going single out a player leave him out of the team, until he's willing to run around like a maniac.

Oversimplification, but craziness is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results. We watched this same crap football last year. From squad building, to man management, to tactics. Just so poor. I don't blame any player for this loss because it just looked like a bunch of pieces were thrown on to the field. Mourinho has officially sunk worse than LVG in my opinion. At least LVG had a philosophy, as shitty as it was. Mourinho just seems lost and conflicted. When its only the individual talent that's winning you games, you have to question what value your manager brings to the table?

Most realistic comment I have seen in a while, everything exactly on point.... im done with Jose and his tactics.

 

[Speedicut75]

We should remember we were without Pogba and Bailly today for what it's worth.

Too much kneejerk for such nonsense unfortunately