Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Ishdalar]

So true, the fact only seven days ago we went into a big game with almost identical counter/defensive tactics as today and played superbly well on the counter seems to have been erased from memory by a lot on here purely because today it was a bad result. I don't know, do people think Mourinho today deliberately instructed the players to pass the ball badly or to get rid of it as soon as possible? Do people think he said to the players "You know all that good counter attacking football you did at Arsenal last week, how about you not do that today?". People sees things way too black and white at times.

Yeah, and with his style when players perform bad, they really look awful, because they have smaller windows of opportunity to operate, and if they screw it they won't get another for maybe 10 or 20 minutes

In a Mourinho team, when defenders missposition long balls or strikers fail 3/4 of their 6 chances of hold up play "These guys had a stinker, should get rid of them"
In a Pep team (from experience) when Xavi and Iniesta had an off day and they fail to create more than a couple chances vs defensive teams "well, that just happens, they're still trying, is just that the other team was better"

As if the guy kicking lobs or the other jumping and fighting with two defenders isn't trying as hard as a creative midfielder when he jogs around asking for the ball and missing passes, but one looks worse to our eyes than the other.

 

[Fracture90]

Don't know why we'd focus on last season when we are a different side. We have Matic who has improved us immensely, not to add Pogba has settled and has played a bigger role and been more influential this season.

We are not focusing on the last season as you claim, we are counting in the last season because Mourinho was our manager, we had a strong side as well, our opposition was worse and we still played cowardly in big games with or without Pogba.

 

[Giggs86]

Spot on.

I won't put all the blame on Mourinho though when our players treated the ball like a ticking bomb that needs to be hoofed as far as possible in the first half.

I think it's some of our gutless players that panicked like sheep before slaughter who should be blamed here.

 

[Womp]

We are not focusing on the last season as you claim, we are counting in the last season because Mourinho was our manager, we had a strong side as well, our opposition was worse and we still played cowardly in big games with or without Pogba.

We were also not as good a side last season, it was Jose's first season, Pogba was still settling and it was his first season here, Martial admitted his personal issues severely affected his form, we had a 35 year old striker who couldn't make runs off the ball or in behind defences, Pogba has looked better alongside a proper defensive midfielder in Matic etc. etc. there's so many variables.

I'm judging us on this season as last season is irrelevant now. Fact of the matter is when taking into account this season, the results speak for themselves. In one game we played fast, quick, intricate passing (away from home, might I add) in the other games we hoofed it (some of them being played at home)

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Napoli’s team is literred with small nimble players who can dribble through the press, we don’t have the same luxury.



I was talking about composure in pressure situations, not ability to pass the ball. I’m sure our CBs and mids do fine in passing drills in training but they can’t execute that in matches. Ignore today’s match, why were we making hash of clearances against Arsenal? Why were we unable to hold the ball and kept panicking even though we had Pogba in the XI? It can’t be just instructions from the manager.

Look I’ll be first to admit our attacking patterns as in off the ball running leaves a lot to be desired which makes it difficult to create chances but there is no excuse for bunch of pro footballers to toss the ball like grenade under slightest bit of pressure.

Our main problem in all those matches which you’ve discussed stems from midfield, we’ve lost midfield battle in each and every game hence why we’ve looked so limp. This can only be sorted by buying better quality or changing formation to add another body.

We have nimble players too. Jose is buying/favoring too many physical bullies though.

 

[Pyroblazer]

Mourinho has always and will always play counter attacking football against a top side with a possession football style. The sooner you lot realize it the better. We are going to win some like the Arsenal game and Chelsea last season and lose some like this game. Get over it ffs. Simeone does it as well - SAF did it numerous times

I would love us to play counter attacking football, but we are not doing it either. Jose from some years ago was way more aggressive in his counter-attack approach, now it's really only park the bus and no idea how to create and attack. We only beat Arsenal thanks to De Gea and them gifting us goals. Even after 0-2 they could have won the game 5-3 if it wasn't for De Gea's record amount of saves.

Simeone these days is a modern version of Jose. More aggressive, more technical, higher workrate, pressing, movement and positioning. I don't see that from Jose at all and in comparison to Mourinho Simeone has an underdog side in competition with Barca and Real. No one complains if Everton or Leicester parking the bus against City. But we are United, we have one of the richest squads in Europe and still play cautious everytime we face a team who can play football and it doesn't even deliver results, our big game record (especially away from home) is pretty bad.

 

[Fracture90]

I won't put all the blame on Mourinho though when our players treated the ball like a ticking bomb that needs to be hoofed as far as possible in the first half.

I think it's some of our gutless players that panicked like sheep before slaughter who should be blamed here.

So you think it's down to players and not coaching?

 

[dichinero]

So you think it's down to players and not coaching?

It amazes me. It's almost as if we've never seen these players play any other way.

 

[breakout67]

Have people forgotten what our team is like? Our back up midfielders are Hererra and Fellaini. We have two old wingers that have been converted into full backs. We have no recognized right winger and two young prospects on the left wing.

Are people really expecting us to match city in the league with the squad we have?

 

[Fracture90]

We were also not as good a side last season, it was Jose's first season, Pogba was still settling and it was his first season here, Martial admitted his personal issues severely affected his form, we had a 35 year old striker who couldn't make runs off the ball or in behind defences etc. etc. there's so many variables.

I'm judging us on this season as last season is irrelevant now. Fact of the matter is when taking into account this season, the results speak for themselves.

Guardiola was new to City he brought in some players, Conte was new to Chelsea and he brought in some players, Klopp was relatively new to Liverpool and has brought in some players but none of them played as cowardly as we did even when their star players were out.

Sure Martial has some personal issues but even when he was good he wasn't getting the run of gamed, Zlatan was irreplaceable even when he was poor, Fellaini was a key player on oaccasio and you can talk all you want about it being Mourinho's first season when we both know he is always gonna park the bus against a decent side irrelevant of the fact if Pogba is in team or not.

 

[Ishdalar]

Simeone is in fear of nobody - he is just get the best out of his players, that's all. We are IN FEAR of Manchester City and José is not getting the best out of his players.

Simeone is the biggest "coward" of the top managers, he just won a game 0-1, giving the ball away 73% of the time to Betis while he parked the bus, that's with Atletico having a 450M squad and Betis a 75M one.

Simeone has been increasing his fear of losing through the years, every season he gets more money and better players yet every year his team plays worse and wins less, if it was Mourniho the one getting 0 titles in Manchester with the squad Atleti had for the last 3 seasons he would have to take a spiritual retirement in Portugal.

 

[James Peril]

Not too bothered about the display, we should have had 2-2 at the end, we also could have lost 1-4.

What I do not like is the attack on the referee. Mourinho has seen the situation and knows it’s not a penalty in a million years, he should have not bothered commenting on that and taken the loss like a man. Very Kloppish.

 

[Fracture90]

It amazes me. It's almost as if we've never seen these players play any other way.

Yep the lengths some people will take just to blame it all on the players is truly shocking.

As if we have no manager at all and the players are ones holding the power, commanding on the training ground and devising tactics.

 

[Bobski]

Have people forgotten what our team is like? Our back up midfielders are Hererra and Fellaini. We have two old wingers that have been converted into full backs. We have no recognized right winger and two young prospects on the left wing.

Are people really expecting us to match city in the league with the squad we have?

City are a distraction. What concerns me is the lack of sign of a real style of play developing. How do Utd try to play, what it their identity as a team. Big powerful side who rely on individual magic to make something happen, long ball the rest of the time, waiting to throw more money at it.

 

[Giggs86]

So you think it's down to players and not coaching?

It's not black or white. I just don't think Mourinho should be held responsible for that alone.

Do you really think his team talk before the game was "get out there and be scared shitless and just hoof the ball as far as possible"?

 

[bucky]

Mourinho is not to blame for today. City were simply better on a day when our best striker is well off form and our best player is out to suspension.

You can approach the whole thing differently though. Be more proactive and aggressive for example. Klopp's been doing it with average players. If you don't have the players to dominate yourself, try to let the other team, but press them early and win the ball back in their half. We also don't need to do it the whole game. Mourinho has no problem with not having the ball.

 

[Womp]

Guardiola was new to City he brought in some players, Conte was new to Chelsea and he brought in some players, Klopp was relatively new to Liverpool and has brought in some players but none of them played as cowardly as we did even when their star players were out.

Sure Martial has some personal issues but even when he was good he wasn't getting the run of gamed, Zlatan was irreplaceable even when he was poor, Fellaini was a key player on oaccasio and you can talk all you want about it being Mourinho's first season when we both know he is always gonna park the bus against a decent side irrelevant of the fact if Pogba is in team or not.

What does that have to do with anything I said? Pep last season won feck all and was competing for top four, yet now he's being hailed as the messiah. Should we judge his football on last season too? When it looked toothless? How he played last season has no relevance to his team this season, similarly to Jose. Similarly to Conte who is now way off the pace. Conte will get no solace from the fact that he won last season, not going to make his job of getting back into the race this season any easier.

Teams evolve and there is so many variables to consider as to why we might have played that way at times last season, Pogba settling and not looking nearly as good this season being one of them. Don't see why we'd need to go back to last season when we've played every one of the top 6 this season already. We looked shite and hoofed in all of them at every possible opportunity except one.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

In my 40+ years as fan, today is one of the few days with me being embarrassed by our game and attitude – I never thought I would experience us being plain and simple IN FEAR of City – what have we become, José?

Nah, it really wasn't the case. Their keeper made as many saves as ours. They dominated the ball but were hardly devastating - stark contrast to last week where Arsenal 75% of the ball (City has 65%) with 33 attempts. City had 12, 13? The differences were in defensive errors, we made one more than them and lost. We saw enough of the ball in the second half and should have scored to make it 2-2. We had too many poor performers today, too many cowards and no one willing to step up and make the difference. You saw a marked difference between the first and second half performances but we made far too many mistakes both in attack and defense. Lets just stop sucking Peps and Citys dicks for a day.

 

[Fracture90]

Simeone is the biggest "coward" of the top managers, he just won a game 0-1, giving the ball away 77% of the time to Betis while he parked the bus, that's with Atletico having a 450M squad and Betis a 75M one.

Simeone has been increasing his fear of losing through the years, every season he gets more money and better players yet every year his team plays worse and wins less, if it was Mourniho the one getting 0 titles in Manchester with the squad Atleti had for the last 3 seasons he would have to take a spiritual retirement in Portugal.

I'm not entirely sure but I think that Mourinho has spent more money in his 2 years as our manager than Someone is in his entire career at Atletico.

 

[Fracture90]

It's not black or white. I just don't think Mourinho should be held responsible for that alone.

Do you really think his team talk before the game was "get out there and be scared shitless and just hoof the ball as far as possible"?

What's the one common trait our team has when facing top sides (sometimes against weaker sides as well) under Mourinho?

 

[Fracture90]

What does that have to do with anything I said? Pep last season won feck all and was competing for top four, yet now he's being hailed as the messiah. Should we judge his football on last season too? When it looked toothless? How he played last season has no relevance to his team this season, similarly to Jose. Similarly to Conte who is now way off the pace. Conte will get no solace from the fact that he won last season, not going to make his job of getting back into the race this season any easier.

Teams evolve and there is so many variables to consider as to why we might have played that way at times last season, Pogba settling and not looking nearly as good this season being one of them. Don't see why we'd need to go back to last season when we've played every one of the top 6 this season already. We looked shite and hoofed in all of them at every possible opportunity except one.

Is like banging on the wall.

Are you daft now or what?

Pep, Conte and Klopp managed to implement their system, style of play in their first year, after a very short period so did Mourinho and that is why our tactics in big matches remained the same - hoof the ball upfront.

 

[Footyislife]

So true, the fact only seven days ago we went into a big game with almost identical counter/defensive tactics as today and played superbly well on the counter seems to have been erased from memory by a lot on here purely because today it was a bad result. I don't know, do people think Mourinho today deliberately instructed the players to pass the ball badly or to get rid of it as soon as possible? Do people think he said to the players "You know all that good counter attacking football you did at Arsenal last week, how about you not do that today?". People sees things way too black and white at times.

The only conclusion we can draw is when Pogba plays, we do well. When Pogba's out, our team looks as if Mourinho doesn't know how to coach. The reality is, that Pogba is the one adding most value to our team rather than Mourinho. Mourinho needs to do a far better job of creating a cohesive system for players to operate in. He focuses on the defense and creates a rigid structure to the team shape, but then fails to define how the team will successfully build up the play and execute the offense in that same structure. The different phases of the game are not well defined and expectations are not realistic. You can't expect Martial or Rashford to be in our own half marking, and then suddenly make up 60 yards to score a goal without any midfield player to link up play like Pogba, Mkhi, or Mata. Right now offensively, we bypass the midfield and expect individual talent to carry us. Which is why our performance is inconsistent and overly dependent on moments of brilliance from our attacking players.

 

[Son Of Sam]

In a game which we have to win and he sets us up like that, says it all unfortunately.

He started Martial, Rashford, Lukaku & Lingard. What else could he have done?

 

[gaucho_10]

Simeone has been increasing his fear of losing through the years, every season he gets more money and better players yet every year his team plays worse and wins less

I second this. He has a team to go out and play football but instead he goes even more defensive with 9 players behind the ball all the time.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Have people forgotten what our team is like? Our back up midfielders are Hererra and Fellaini. We have two old wingers that have been converted into full backs. We have no recognized right winger and two young prospects on the left wing.

Are people really expecting us to match city in the league with the squad we have?

Jose has near enough spent the same as Pep. Their squad is on a different planet to ours. Their football is nice to watch. What I saw in that first half was an embarrassment to football and to a club that prided itself with a certain attacking style.

No control, no weight of pass, nothing. It was hoofball to a striker that can’t even hold the ball up so I don’t even know why we were trying it. If you want to play that way stick Fellaini or Zlatan up top because Lukaku clearly can’t play that way.

Time and time again I just can’t believe the money we have spent and the real lack of world class players we have. That’s not Jose’s fault but is a club issue which since Sir Alex has retired they have been unable to find a solution.

 

[Giggs86]

What's the one common trait our team has when facing top sides (sometimes against weaker sides as well) under Mourinho?

Shit their pants and lose the ability to reason under pressure?

But here's the problem, it's not only under Mourinho. The same players did it under LVG and Moyes before that too.

 

[Rajma]

I second this. He has a team to go out and play football but instead he goes even more defensive with 9 players behind the ball all the time.

Yeah I think that's the slippery slope that both managers have entered and can't put a break on it.

 

[Womp]

Is like banging on the wall.

Are you daft now or what?

Pep, Conte and Klopp managed to implement their system, style of play in their first year, after a very short period so did Mourinho and that is why our tactics in big matches remained the same - hoof the ball upfront.

Mate you're just repeating the same bollocks which frankly is you contradicting yourself. I digress can't be arsed. Generally speaking though, the same way Pep's team isn't still considered toothless by last season's standards, using last season to measure us is also just as baffling.

 

[broccoli]

I'm not entirely sure but I think that Mourinho has spent more money in his 2 years as our manager than Someone is in his entire career at Atletico.

All that hatred for United's coach can't be good for you.

Both Atletico's fullbacks, together with Koke, Saul, Gameiro, Diego Costa, Angel Rodriguez, Griezman and probably one of the cbs would easily all start for United.

I understand real Man United fans here have some difficulties assessing the quality of their own players, just like I do with my team but if you try so hard to blame it on the manager at least take some time and try to consider what José has at his disposal.

 

[SCP]

All that hatred for United's coach can't be good for you.

Both Atletico's fullbacks, together with Koke, Saul, Gameiro, Diego Costa, Angel Rodriguez, Griezman and probably one of the cbs would easily all start for United.

I understand real Man United fans here have some difficulties assessing the quality of their own players, just like I do with my team but if you try so hard to blame it on the manager at least take some time and try to con side what José has at his disposal.

Actually Simeone is even more defensive than Mourinho, he just hasn't the same level of scrutiny here.

 

[Womp]

Actually Simeone is even more defensive than Mourinho, he just hasn't the same level of scrutiny here.

People try to say so, it'd take away from Mourinho's criticism though. Simeone makes Mourinho look like an attacking revolutionary. If Griezmann isn't playing like one of the best footballers on the planet they look shite even against weak teams.

 

[Hed Zitin]

Actually Simeone is even more defensive than Mourinho, he just hasn't the same level of scrutiny here.

Feck Simeone. Wouldn't want him anywhere near this club. Sick of these negative managers.

 

[breakout67]

Jose has near enough spent the same as Pep. Their squad is on a different planet to ours. Their football is nice to watch. What I saw in that first half was an embarrassment to football and to a club that prided itself with a certain attacking style.

No control, no weight of pass, nothing. It was hoofball to a striker that can’t even hold the ball up so I don’t even know why we were trying it. If you want to play that way stick Fellaini or Zlatan up top because Lukaku clearly can’t play that way.

Time and time again I just can’t believe the money we have spent and the real lack of world class players we have. That’s not Jose’s fault but is a club issue which since Sir Alex has retired they have been unable to find a solution.

We were using players past their prime in the last few years of SAF reign, then we replaced these old players with utter dross thanks to Moyes and LVG.

Jose started from a far worse point than Pep. There is a mountain of evidence to back this up. Sky did a whole piece on how City have taken over United every since SAF retired.

Since SAF retirement
- City have 0.27 more points per game
- City have scored over 100 goals more
- City have spent almost 5 times longer at the top of the table

 

[SCP]

People try to say so, it'd take away from Mourinho's criticism though. Simeone makes Mourinho look like an attacking revolutionary. If Griezmann isn't playing like one of the best footballers on the planet they look shite even against weak teams.

Believe me the Mourinho teams between 2000 to 2010 were much more offensive than any Atleti team managed by Simeone, problem is that many here praise Simeone based in results more than watching his teams playing.

 

[Ishdalar]

I'm not entirely sure but I think that Mourinho has spent more money in his 2 years as our manager than Someone is in his entire career at Atletico.

£393M since their last title in 2014 is nothing to scoff at, especially if we consider that he retained some players of his liking that were with him in succesuful La Liga/Cup runs and that reached their first UCL final vs Real.

Mourinho has Spent 313 millions at United and already has more titles to show than Simeone in the last 3 seasons period, and obviously stakes come way higher with Mou's job, thinking that Simeone could perform better than Jose is wishful thinking, not something that can be easily backed by recent performance

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I think though Mourinho has given us the short term boost and he sort of stopped the disaster of Moyes and LVG. He has made some good signings so I do think it can be time to move on with a more modern coach with more attacking ideas soon.

I don't think we should fire him, but just not give him a new contract and plan for the future.

We got a lot of young talent and need a manager that can develop and get the best out of them.

 

[Womp]

I think though Mourinho has given us the short term boost and he sort of stopped the disaster of Moyes and LVG. He has made some good signings so I do think it can be time to move on with a more modern coach with more attacking ideas soon.

I don't think we should fire him, but just not give him a new contract and plan for the future.

We got a lot of young talent and need a manager that can develop and get the best out of them.

This is what will probably happen. I don't see either of Pep or Jose staying long. Both will win some trophies then feck off to their next challenge.

 

[el3mel]

We started the game with our most offensive lineup anyone can dream of. Thinking we went into the game thinking of parking the bus while having 4 attackers upfront is a ridiculous claim. I find it amazing everyone was pointing how the lineup is very offensive before the game and then now people saying we tended to defend. If we go on with 4 attackers and 2 midfielders and stuck as deep as this there must be another problem.

The problem was the same problem we had during Pogba's absence. He's our only player that can carry the ball forward from the midfield to attack. Matic isn't a deep playmaker and Herrera's terrible in passing and dribbling, hence both Herrera and Matic stuck deep with Lingard dropping back to get the ball or staying up front so that we had no chance to attack except by throwing a long ball. It's a clear problem in our midfield and Mourinho has to solve it badly, we just need another midfielder that can carry the ball forward and dribble.

Our formation against Arsenal was more defensive than today, when we tried to go on counters we were sublime, because Pogba was able to carry the ball forward leaving the other 3 forwards to make their runs. With Pogba we can defend and hit on counters, but without him we defend only and that's our major problem this season. We're really a one man team and all talking about our great depth proves to be not true at all, at least in attacking midfield role.

Instead of repeating things like parking the bus over and over and over again, people should think of some other problems in our team really. If you think getting rid of Mourinho and getting your darling whoever he's as our manager will solve our problems and make us go toe on toe with City you're up to a massive disappointment.

What I blame Mourinho for today was starting Martial on the right and Rashford on the left though. Rashford would have no chance against Walker as Rash depends on pace to pass through players and Walkers read this perfectly and kept him quiet. Martial could have handled Walker better during the game, and Rashford scored his goal when he moved to the right away from Walker.

 

[Ludens the Red]

The only conclusion we can draw is when Pogba plays, we do well. When Pogba's out, our team looks as if Mourinho doesn't know how to coach. The reality is, that Pogba is the one adding most value to our team rather than Mourinho. Mourinho needs to do a far better job of creating a cohesive system for players to operate in. He focuses on the defense and creates a rigid structure to the team shape, but then fails to define how the team will successfully build up the play and execute the offense in that same structure. The different phases of the game are not well defined and expectations are not realistic. You can't expect Martial or Rashford to be in our own half marking, and then suddenly make up 60 yards to score a goal without any midfield player to link up play like Pogba, Mkhi, or Mata. Right now offensively, we bypass the midfield and expect individual talent to carry us. Which is why our performance is inconsistent and overly dependent on moments of brilliance from our attacking players.

You could label that at pretty much most teams, you take out the individual talent of Silva and De Bruyne from city and put in Toure and Gundojan and you'll be left with nothing, as seen during the week. You could say that City's performances are regularly dependent on moments of brilliance from their attacking players. The rigid counter strategy that Mourinho tends to go for in these games is a legitimate and workable tactic and whilst I agree you can't bypass the midfield, those clearly aren't his instructions. Herrera has played against Chelsea, Liverpool and City this season and been absolutely shocking in all of those games, he is meant to be the key to linking defence to attack, that's his role and he's not doing his job. Mkhitaryan had similar performances against Chelsea and Liverpool, it's not about expecting individual talent to carry us, it's about doing your job in the team properly, if we constantly have a badly performing midfield, no matter what strategy or tactic we use, it will all fall apart. If we keep having our midfielders fail to pass the ball properly, whatever tactics we employ will fail, rigid or fluid. Of course that's not me downplaying Pogba, he's our best player, of course we'll be reliant on him but like I said , take Silva and De Bruyne out of city and see what you're left with.

 

[Son Of Sam]

Jose has near enough spent the same as Pep. Their squad is on a different planet to ours. Their football is nice to watch. What I saw in that first half was an embarrassment to football and to a club that prided itself with a certain attacking style.

No control, no weight of pass, nothing. It was hoofball to a striker that can’t even hold the ball up so I don’t even know why we were trying it. If you want to play that way stick Fellaini or Zlatan up top because Lukaku clearly can’t play that way.

Time and time again I just can’t believe the money we have spent and the real lack of world class players we have. That’s not Jose’s fault but is a club issue which since Sir Alex has retired they have been unable to find a solution.

They did not have the same starting point. Jose had a more difficult rebuilding to do. Pep inherited Silva, Aguero, KDB, Sterling, etc.

United don’t even have any player as creative as any of these lots before Jose arrived. How can you then compare what they have both spent on their respective teams?