Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[AshRK]

I am still not understanding how can jose be blamed for yesterday's game. His selection was spot on, he gave deserving rest to matic and rashford. He eased in rojo. Yeah maybe he could have given shaw a chance but we do not know how much ready he is.

Even then there were many positives from yesterday especially in first 60 mins. I don't u6, sometimes when we win 1-0 people say results don't matter , creating many chances matter but when we lose 1-0 by creating chances which we should have scored people yet cry. I understand some here don't like jose but let us all keep this is mind, he is here to stay for atleast 8 more months of not 18.

Criticsm is fine but criticsm with an agenda is wrong.

 

[JohnnyKills]

We might not have been deliberately negative but it was still a poor away performance in which we didn't score any goals. And we've spent hundreds of millions on top players over the past couple of seasons; we should be able to cope when one is missing and if we're so dependent on our best player that our attack falls apart when he's not there then that's on Mourinho.

Not sure it was a poor away performance - we created plenty of chances and controlled the first half. It's just that whenever things get tough JM's default response appears to be to throw on even more size and muscle and launch the ball skyward.

 

[AshRK]

There is a difference between setting up a team just to defend and going out to play but your players feck up.

I'll say the latter is what we experienced at Stamford Bridge, Huddersfield and Basel - our three loses this season.

The only game we really set out to defend throughout was the Anfield game IMO.

People need to watch the Chelsea game again without emotions. It was real end to end stuff. Neutrals must have enjoyed it. Unfortunately, it was a game that exposed how much we are short on real ballers in our team.

Against Basel, we could have hit them with at least three goals in the first half. In the second half, I don't believe Jose asked them to go out there and fight for a draw. I think the boys simply crumbled. If Jose wanted a draw, he could have added more defensive players to the team while he pulled out the more attacking player. You don't throw Zlatan and Rashford into a game if you are thinking of defending a point.

What Jose needs to do is to work on preparing his players better psychologically and getting them to be more expressive on the pitch, especially away from home. He also needs to recruit more ballers into that team. He seems to prefer grafters over ballers from what I have observed. Ballers give you beautiful football and their football intelligence often create more chances in the last third.

Yes even i do not understand how can one say jose parked the bus at the bridge by playing 2 strikers. It is called lazy analysis. It is like when we do not score the automatic conclusion is jose parked the bus.

I cannot remotely take any person serious here who think we were defensive yesterday. It is a simple rule if you do not take your chances you won't win.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You don't follow the matchday threads then?? We have some really great players but we also have a few average ones.

Everyone has a "few average ones". The whole point of having a squad naturally implies that every player won't be great. Not sure why the matchday thread is relevant.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Completely agree here.

Thank you. I actually would like to hear about peoples ideas but especially people who want to propose a solution or an insight into why when things go wrong right down to the tactics and strategy and what could be done.

On a side note, another gripe I have in relation to individual errors/slips or missed chances is that some opinions will never be valid unless Jose is on the pitch playing and making those mistakes. He can't reasonably be expected to be responsible for things like that. I know some people like to justify that opinion by saying he is the manager and should somehow be. I get that his job is to get the players to perform to a certain level but some things are really impossible to fully control.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

He is a coward. Nothing more to it. Also past it.

Oh look another bitter Chelski fan hating on the most successful manager your club has ever had.

 

[breakout67]

We lost this game for two reasons:
1. The manager didnt show respect to the opponent
2. The players did not finish their chances

We had enough chances to win the game comfortably but the players didnt finish. The manager also took the caf experts advice and played a weakened team.

Romero in goal, Rojo, Pogba and Zlatan returning from injury. Matic, Young and Valencia rested. Lingard started.

The Basel team got a massive boost from being 0-0 at half time, they realized that we were taking them lightly and gave a much better performance in the second half.

 

[D2Z]

Oh look another bitter Chelski fan hating on the most successful manager your club has ever had.

Awkward, im a United fan.

Youre an immature fan saying "Chelski". Youre 14 years old or something lil man?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

You have just literally made a parody of what I was talking about. Regardless of whether we are supposed to beat a side or not, it is rather disingenuous for supposed fans to not comment on good wins or performances regardless of the opposition. The same thing happened against Spurs who are constantly being praised on here for good reason and are used as an example by certain sections of the forum of how we should play yet when we beat them the best you get from this section of posters is backhanded compliments or complete radio silence. Also please point out the "discussions" and how many there were compared to the usual generic insults and polemics. When people get asked to explain their reasoning or challenged why they think something then they get replies like "Mourinho apologists" or complaing that they are "not allowed to have an opinion" when in fact they are being asked about their opinion. The reason they do this is that of 2 possibilities which are either down to their outspoken agenda of negativity or they just can't be bothered and in both cases, it causes a toxic and unconstructive environment.


This is the point I am making. When talking about a game I want to see actual discussion, not the ad hominins and baseless opinions with no attempt to articulate them.

Weirdly the exact same happens with people going on about “haters” “agenda posters” then none of those people can explain their reasoning and just write it off to have faith in Jose, he is one of the best managers of his generation who wins everywhere he goes.

There are not many I’ve had a conversation with who can actually put forth any good reasoning outwith “it’s Jose” half refuse to admit that for the most part of this season our tactics are negative. They just say, “we scored 4 goals how can that be negative” it just shows a total lack of understanding of how football is performed on a pitch.
They brush off the opinions of others because it doesn’t fit with their own.

So really the pro Jose crowd is just the same, except there are more of you who are outspoken.

I do get that just reading this thread their are posts that just say “fire Jose, defensive crap, coward, past it” there are also posts that just say “Jose greatest manager ever, Have faith, fans are clueless, muppets” and so on.

I wouldn’t say I’m a Jose fan by any means but if someone does good then i’ll Happily say so, if someone in my opinion is doing poorly then I’ll say it as well. Newcastle he changed his tactics completely from how we’ve been playing and looks like he tried the same thing yesterday with other adjustments which (ok questionable as to why he had them do this) but for whatever reason the lads just didn’t look at the races mentally for the game.

Anyway, you can’t just lump oneside in as being the problem when it’s quite evident it each is as bad as each other.

 

[GM K]

He is a coward. Nothing more to it. Also past it.

But he won the PL title just three seasons ago and won the EL last season and is 2nd on the PL table so far this season. How can he be past it?

 

[prtk0811]

But he won the PL title just three seasons ago and won the EL last season and is 2nd on the PL table so far this season. How can he be past it?

Stop replying to these sort of posts . Dont deserve serious attention. The quality of arguments have gone very low since the newbie system has been changed.

 

[GM K]

We played very badly in the second half against Basel but people need to relax here. We are sitting pretty on top of the table. We thrashed that same Basel at home and CSKA away. We had room for a slip up. Not saying that's good excuse for the crappy play but that"s the reality. It was also not our strongest squad while Basel was very desperate for a win. Let's give our team a chance. The good thing is that Pogba, Zlatan and Rojo are getting more game time and can eventually have a say in our run in period for the season.

 

[GM K]

Stop replying to these sort of posts . Dont deserve serious attention. The quality of arguments have gone very low since the newbie system has been changed.

Good point there. You're right.

 

[AshRK]

This thread has gone dead since we won. Imagine if we had lost.

There is your answer

 

[el3mel]

There is your answer

 

[deafepl]

It's not cherry picking. Sir Alex played different away in Europe and we all know it. When Mourinho loses one game he is accused of being negative and defensive. It's ridiculous. When I bring up the CSKA game I'm apparantly licking Jose's arse.

There is a clear agenda against Mourinho from some people.

Yeah, nobody didn't bring up the fact that Sir Alex's United sides didn't play amazing football against Barcelona in the semi-final of the 2007-8 champions league if I recall, he played negatives tactics to beat Barcelona over two-legged otherwive it probably would cost us champions league title if we take a risk against Barcelona by playing attacking display. Mourinho is more of like serial trophies winners, he proved in last season, if we face better opponents in the tournament which is important games for Mourinho, Mourinho will not play attacking games away against them otherwive opponents take lend by 1/2 goals. If Mourinho wins the league with 4 or 5 games left to go, he can go out all attacking because there is no risk involved that would threaten his chance of winning the league when he already did. Jose will take risks when he desperately needs to beat opponents to get 3 points coming from behind to keep in a race for a title or need to beat opponents in two legs if went down with a goal or more to go through next round in champions league or any other tournament like FA cup, Europa league, EFL cup, etc.

As you know, there are many people with agendas but there are also many people who didn't watch to bring up the fact they got it from the media and the media is at faults for feeding false info regarding of how they claimed that we parked the bus against the likes of Basel, Newcastle, Chelsea or Spurs. When we win a game, they'd call it a boring game, when we lose or draw, they'd claim we parked the bus against them. They praise the City no matter even if they drew or lose, they always made City looking amazing while media making us looking like we're average teams, boring and shit, blah blah.

 

[fellaini's barber]

You've missed the point of the part of the post you're referring to though, whats being said and i agree with, is that this thread is only ever popular when we lose. When we beat Newcastle, and as i said elsewhere that result should have been a given, this thread had very little activity, yet when a result doesnt go our way everyone on this forum rushes to criticise Mou's tactics and question his ability.

I'm not saying i disagree with your final point by the way, our performances away from home havent been good and we need to improve. Having said that, if you take a step back, we're in decent shape at the moment in all competitions, could and should be better but could be a hell of a lot worse.

Well did you want the the thread to be flooded with posts like 'fantastic job beating Newcastle', 'tactical masterclass' etc? How many posts were there after the Spurs game? Do you think no one would have commented if we managed to beat Chelsea? Claiming there's an agenda against Jose because this thread was not flooded with posts after beating Newcastle home is ridiculous, its the barest minimum we should be expecting for a club of our stature

 

[IAmAWinner]

My blood pressure rises when I read some of the comments here. I'll come back when we trounce Brighton.

 

[Minimalist]

If this was about one game, away in Europe, then yes, it would be over the top. But that's ridiculous and lies.

This thread isn't complaining about ONE game, is it now? FWIW, I'm definitely on the side of 'things are relatively fine and the potential is there for a decent season' but I'm definitely not buying into this idea that Mourinho should be given an extension.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Awkward, im a United fan.

Really? Saw the 'undercover Chelsea fan' tag and checked your recent posts figured you to be a Chelsea fan...

 

[Tom Van Persie]

My blood pressure rises when I read some of the comments here. I'll come back when we trounce Brighton.

You'll be coming back after the match to about 2 new posts in this thread.

 

[dichinero]

Well did you want the the thread to be flooded with posts like 'fantastic job beating Newcastle', 'tactical masterclass' etc? How many posts were there after the Spurs game? Do you think no one would have commented if we managed to beat Chelsea? Claiming there's an agenda against Jose because this thread was not flooded with posts after beating Newcastle home is ridiculous, its the barest minimum we should be expecting for a club of our stature

There is no bare minimum expectation anymore. Thanks to Moyes, expectations have plummeted ever since.

I remember last season, when a poster accused me of having an "agenda" against Rooney because I didn't want him playing. His point was "because he scored that goal against Newcastle" he should be in every starting line-up.

Criticism = agenda, according to some

 

[fellaini's barber]

Yeah that's fair enough but then some of those fans (and I'm just generalising here) with these high expectations jump on other fans who say we should be doing better than the likes of Lingard, Fellaini, Smalling etc. You can't have it both ways.

Can you hand on heart, honestly say that the 'biggest club in the world' should have Lingard, Smalling, Fellaini, Darmian etc., starting for them??

Well this is actually my biggest dissapointment with Mourinho. When he was hired I was happy we finally had a manager who would be ruthless with some of the dross that we've been stuck with in this club. But what does he do? he says Fellaini is 'very important to him' and gives Lingard a new contract. Whose job is it to identify this average players and do something about them, me? He's the one who decided to work with these players so you can't be using them as an excuse, he's had 3 windows

 

[Minimalist]

There is no bare minimum expectation anymore. Thanks to Moyes, expectations have plummeted ever since.

I remember last season, when a poster accused me of having an "agenda" against Rooney because I didn't want him playing. His point was "because he scored that goal against Newcastle" he should be in every starting line-up.

Criticism = agenda, according to some

Well the Rooney situation should warn people what to expect on the Caf. He was cooked seasons ago and the vitriol posters received for talking about how poor he was playing was nothing short of a disgrace. It was never making counter arguments - it was just how much these posters were 'bad supporters' and how dare they disrespect a legend like Rooney.

Just don't take the bait in here. It's childish as feck.

I genuinely don't have an agenda against Mourinho. I simply hold him to same standards I did Ferguson, Moyes and Van Gaal. When we beat Newcastle at home, the manager simply did his job competently - we don't need multiple posts talking about how well he did (it should be bloody expected).

 

[dichinero]

Well the Rooney situation should warn people what to expect on the Caf. He was cooked seasons ago and the vitriol posters received for talking about how poor he was playing was nothing short of a disgrace. It was never making counter arguments - it was just how much these posters were 'bad supporters' and how dare they disrespect a legend like Rooney.

Just don't take the bait in here. It's childish as feck.

I genuinely don't have an agenda against Mourinho. I simply hold him to same standards I did Ferguson, Moyes and Van Gaal. When we beat Newcastle at home, the manager simply did his job competently - we don't need multiple posts talking about how well he did (it should be bloody expected).

Definitely need to take this advice on board

 

[fellaini's barber]

There is no bare minimum expectation anymore. Thanks to Moyes, expectations have plummeted ever since.

I remember last season, when a poster accused me of having an "agenda" against Rooney because I didn't want him playing. His point was "because he scored that goal against Newcastle" he should be in every starting line-up.

Criticism = agenda, according to some

The Rooney situation was bizzarre, if you said he had a terrible game someone would point out a single pass or cross he made in 90 mins to justify his inclusion despite spending the remaining 89 mins being shite and call you a hater. I've forgotten the name of particularly notorious poster in the Rooney's thread who was that threads version of @haram ,just more extreme, attacking everyone in sight, claiming a video compilation of his Watford performance was a low light video, calling everybody haters etc, drove me crazy. Think he's been banned

 

[dichinero]

The Rooney situation was bizzarre, if you said he had a terrible game someone would point out a single pass or cross he made in 90 mins to justify his inclusion despite spending the remaining 89 mins being shite and call you a hater. I've forgotten the name of particularly notorious poster in the Rooney's thread who was that threads version of @haram ,just more extreme, attacking everyone in sight, claiming a video compilation of his Watford performance was a low light video, calling everybody haters etc, drove me crazy. Think he's been banned

Those were the days .

I know who you're talking about. He called two miss hit shots predatory instincts and the signs of an evolving marksman. Legend!

 

[Minimalist]

Those were the days .

I know who you're talking about. He called two miss shots predatory instincts and the signs of an evolving marksman. Legend!

Sounds like Gary Neville?

 

[dichinero]

Sounds like Gary Neville?

I was thinking Phil. Lol

 

[Smores]

If this was about one game, away in Europe, then yes, it would be over the top. But that's ridiculous and lies.

This thread isn't complaining about ONE game, is it now? FWIW, I'm definitely on the side of 'things are relatively fine and the potential is there for a decent season' but I'm definitely not buying into this idea that Mourinho should be given an extension.

Given our recent form with managers id be careful about turning your nose up at just a decent season

Same with signings, people always think we can automatically just go out and get better.

 

[Emptihead]

Did not watch the game, but seems you guys created a good amount of chances going from posts here, but couldn't convert. Whether it is right or wrong often it is the manager that gets stick for this regardless. I think I recall that City created the most chances last season we were just incredibly poor at finishing. Sure we have shored up the defense and walker does help the attack, but the largest difference to this season is we are converting our chances.

As long as you are creating a decent amount of chances don't think you should be too negative if the result doesn't go your way on occasion and should be positive. The finishing will come we are talking about solid professionals here. Other then this can't discuss the performance of Mourinho.

 

[Dante]

There's no such thing as modern football. And even if there was, Mourinho hasn't been left behind by it.

We switched off in the second half. It happens. It's not good, but it happens.

 

[meninred]

We only have three " okay as skilled" players in our team. Pogba,Mata and miki.. while all the other 20 players are physical players. He needs to balance this in my view. Secondly it is is very good point mentioned about accommodating very average players as good players while he would not take them in his early successful Chelsea years - players like lingard..felllaini...etc.

 

[reddaz71]

Mourinho IS emphatically the right man to take Utd forward,no question about that! It is simply not his fault that he inherited a squad largely made up of substandard and rank average players and he is actually doing magnificently since he arrived given what he came into,its going to take a little more time and money to be where we all want to be but look at the stats this season,we are 2nd in the league,the 2nd highest goalscorers with the meanest defence,practically through to the knockout stage of the CL,we have made definite progress under Jose but there are still areas of the squad through no fault of his own that needs addressing,Mourinho would never have brought in players like Blind,Darmian,Smalling,Herrera etc,its a tough job he has walked into and it will probably take him the full tenure of his contract to get us the team we all want to see! What is unacceptable are certain elements of the fanbase being up in arms about his tactics,he has clearly not got complete trust in what he his working with and probably more than likely why he his sometimes pragmatic with us,give him a break,its not Mourinhos fault we hit bar and post regularly and generally miss gilt edged chances, makes it kinda ironic that some think we are defensive while not noticing how profligate we can be, but hey he will leave all that to the experts!!!!

 

[haram]

The Rooney situation was bizzarre, if you said he had a terrible game someone would point out a single pass or cross he made in 90 mins to justify his inclusion despite spending the remaining 89 mins being shite and call you a hater. I've forgotten the name of particularly notorious poster in the Rooney's thread who was that threads version of @haram ,just more extreme, attacking everyone in sight, claiming a video compilation of his Watford performance was a low light video, calling everybody haters etc, drove me crazy. Think he's been banned

I am not attacking anyone. I was saying that just because we lost does not mean we played negative and defensive like some people on here tried to claim to fit their agenda.

 

[AXVnee7]

Mourinho IS emphatically the right man to take Utd forward,no question about that! It is simply not his fault that he inherited a squad largely made up of substandard and rank average players and he is actually doing magnificently since he arrived given what he came into,its going to take a little more time and money to be where we all want to be but look at the stats this season,we are 2nd in the league,the 2nd highest goalscorers with the meanest defence,practically through to the knockout stage of the CL,we have made definite progress under Jose but there are still areas of the squad through no fault of his own that needs addressing,Mourinho would never have brought in players like Blind,Darmian,Smalling,Herrera etc,its a tough job he has walked into and it will probably take him the full tenure of his contract to get us the team we all want to see! What is unacceptable are certain elements of the fanbase being up in arms about his tactics,he has clearly not got complete trust in what he his working with and probably more than likely why he his sometimes pragmatic with us,give him a break,its not Mourinhos fault we hit bar and post regularly and generally miss gilt edged chances, makes it kinda ironic that some think we are defensive while not noticing how profligate we can be, but hey he will leave all that to the experts!!!!

I agree with most of your post but wanted to highlight this part. It's not that he would have bought those players, it's more so that very rarely does a manager go to a new job and finds the whole squad to his liking. Even Pep who City have been building towards for years had to get rid of declining players or others that didn't fit his style. A manager has to adapt some of the players he's already got so we shouldn't reject these players based on that IMO.

Mourinho has been in a similar situation when he took over us, and Herrera for example was fantastic for us last year. He's struggled this year, but I think that's because Matic and Pogba do their respective jobs better than Herrera who is more of an all-rounder. Darmian illustrates the opposite side in that he's been poor throughout and his days here a numbered surely.

 

[Abhinav]

If i have an agenda according to your warped logic, so have you.
He manages the team and picks them and coaches them. So responsibility should fall on him. Calculated risks? That's even worse. Taking things for granted is why we are so far behind City now. Our inability to get a goal, kill off a game or even hold out for a draw has cost us time and again.

You can have all the chances in the world, but the only thing that matters at the end of the match is the ball in the net. The result matters. Anything else does not matter. I can argue its largely the same as what we gone through with LVG.

You make it sound like it's a good thing/spinning it into a positive yarn to lose when we shouldnt have lost at all. And this is just only Basel. Had we been playing PSG or even City we would have been blitzed aside the way we were playing.

We are talking about a champions league campaign where we have won 4 matches and have virtually qualified for the next round. How is this even relevant to why we have fallen behind City? If the manager is not allowed to rest his players in such a situation then I don't know when is it a good time do that.

And had we been playing PSG/City, the team he would have picked and our performance would have been very different.

People are just throwing out the toys out of their prams cause City has gone off to an amazing start and our solid start has not been enough to keep pace. Criticizing our manager seems to be easier than accepting that years of mammoth investment has made city a force that will not go away in the near future.

 

[breakout67]

I agree with most of your post but wanted to highlight this part. It's not that he would have bought those players, it's more so that very rarely does a manager go to a new job and finds the whole squad to his liking. Even Pep who City have been building towards for years had to get rid of declining players or others that didn't fit his style. A manager has to adapt some of the players he's already got so we shouldn't reject these players based on that IMO.

Mourinho has been in a similar situation when he took over us, and Herrera for example was fantastic for us last year. He's struggled this year, but I think that's because Matic and Pogba do their respective jobs better than Herrera who is more of an all-rounder. Darmian illustrates the opposite side in that he's been poor throughout and his days here a numbered surely.

When I look at the signings between 2013 and 2016 I see a complete failure of transfer policy.

13/14:
Fellaini
Mata

14/15:
Di Maria
Shaw
Hererra
Rojo
Blind
Falcao

15/16:
Martial
Schneiderlin
Depay
Darmian
Schweinsteiger
Romero

Out of 14 players I can confidently say that ONE player is a starter for a top team (Martial). From the 13 remaining players I would consider 7 to be squad players and 6 to be complete flops.

I have not seen a situation like this for another top club. After losing a long term manager; instead of replenishing the squad with top players; the club sells most of it's established players and replaces it with squad players.

 

[AXVnee7]

When I look at the signings between 2013 and 2016 I see a complete failure of transfer policy.

13/14:
Fellaini
Mata

14/15:
Di Maria
Shaw
Hererra
Rojo
Blind
Falcao

15/16:
Martial
Schneiderlin
Depay
Darmian
Schweinsteiger
Romero

Out of 14 players I can confidently say that ONE player is a starter for a top team (Martial). From the 13 remaining players I would consider 7 to be squad players and 6 to be complete flops.

I have not seen a situation like this for another top club. After losing a long term manager; instead of replenishing the squad with top players; the club sells most of it's established players and replaces it with squad players.

On paper the likes of Di Maria, Falcao and Schweinsteiger were supposed to be top players.

Then there’s Depay and Shaw who were supposed to be top potential.

I would have loved to have seen what Jose would’ve done with Di Maria. But looking at that list, I agree the recruitment hasn’t been great.

Having said that, there’s not a bad crop of players there. Of the ones Jose uses, Rojo has improved tremendously and was first choice with Bailly until his unfortunate injury. Hopefully he can establish that again. Mata and Fellaini have done fairly well under Jose. Tbf Romero isn’t exactly a bad keeper either, he’s done very well for us too. He’s just up against the most elite keeper on the planet.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Well, the problem is that “the club” on the football side effectively is whatever manager happens to be in charge.

If you want to safeguard against the current man going on shopping sprees for players his successor might find useless, you need some kind of executive authority on the football side which transcends the manager. United don’t have that as far as anyone knows.