Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Cheesy]

I accept we were poor. It's the fact that people have this thing about Mourinho being defensive and they dont like it. Fine, have that opinion, but dont try to spin defeats into "oh we were defensive" to fit your agenda.

People have this thing about Mourinho being negative and defensive because that's regularly the way we've played away. Even if we weren't necessarily negative last night it was still a poor performance overall which resulted in a defeat without us scoring. And it's not the first time we've seen it happen this season.

I don't mean to be overly critical either - overall we've had a solid season so far and our home form's been excellent, but our away form's definitely a problem and it's far from being a new one either.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

How exactly was this apparent yesterday?

I wasn’t referring to yesterday’s game particularly mate, but just in general based on how we’ve developed under his tutelage.

 

[haram]

How have we not scored

We are peppering them now

How have we not scored?!

This is getting ridiculous.

How have we not scored?

Should be 50 nil up

How are we not winning ?

We've outclassed them. Too bad we havent's scored

Should be about three nil up.

Pretty unlucky to not get at least one goal. We're completely dominating the game I forgot Basel was actually playing.

We've been very good. Just unlucky.

Very good half apart from the finishing. Think everyone has done well in the play. Most disappointed with Lukaku think he could have done much better 1vs 1. Nice to see Rojo back. Looks really good so I think him and Smalling short start next game as well or most games. Maybe take it a bit slow and play Lindelöf vs Brighton.

How are we not winning this? Barely got out of second gear as well.

OMG WE WERE SO BAD @Raees

People say posters on here have no agenda against Mourinho, when some people are trying to claim we were bad in the first half. Complete horseshit.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

It's funny how many posts this thread gets after a loss yet when we win convincingly (Newcastle on Saturday) nobody has anything to say.

 

[haram]

People have this thing about Mourinho being negative and defensive because that's regularly the way we've played away. Even if we weren't necessarily negative last night it was still a poor performance overall which resulted in a defeat without us scoring. And it's not the first time we've seen it happen this season.

I don't mean to be overly critical either - overall we've had a solid season so far and our home form's been excellent, but our away form's definitely a problem and it's far from being a new one either.

Yes we were poor. I keep saying this. I am just saying people are trying to spin last nights game to fit their agenda that he is always negative. Fine have that opinion. You cannot use last nights game to support that opinion though. That's all.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Jose has not parked the bus in Europe either. He only really did it against Liverpool and the ending of the Southampton game. We battered Basel and because we lost control after Pogba went off people are trying to say Mourinho was being defensive.

This is exactly what happened. They lay in wait crawling out of the woodwork. I have not checked myself but someone pointed out to me that there was a sum total of 2 posts on this thread after the Newcastle game but after last nights game there was over 100 and counting.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

OMG WE WERE SO BAD @Raees

I can honestly say that this is the first time I have seen a team dominate the game and should have scored a load of goals but did not win. We all know this has never happened before in the history of football.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

This is exactly what happened. They lay in wait crawling out of the woodwork. I have not checked myself but someone pointed out to me that there was a sum total of 2 posts on this thread after the Newcastle game but after last nights game there was over 100 and counting.

You're correct. There was more posts in 5 minutes after the game last night than there was in two days after the Newcastle win. Says it all for me.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

It's funny how many posts this thread gets after a loss yet when we win convincingly (Newcastle on Saturday) nobody has anything to say.

tells you all you need to know.

 

[haram]

I can honestly say that this is the first time I have seen a team dominate the game and should have scored a load of goals but did not win. We all know this has never happened before in the history of football.

No, if you dont score any goals you're defensive and negative.

 

[GM K]

How exactly was this apparent yesterday? I'm not having a dig at you, it's just that i hate when people come up with this whenever we play badly. In modern day football every manager's staff have the means to watch and micro analyze even the tiniest bit of detail and work on it. How can a manager achieve what Mourinho has if he doesn't pay any attention whatsoever to what is basically half the game (what do we do when we have the ball)? I believe it was Guardiola himself who once said that the manager's job is to teach the players how to get the ball to the final third but from that point onward it's the players' job to find the killer pass or the move that will eventually lead to a clear-cut chance. Was it Mourinho's fault that that about 4-5 times during the first half Lingard (and Martial) got on the ball in between the lines, passed it to Lukaku and attacked the space in behind the defence but Lukaku failed miserably to make the half-turn and complete a one-two that would lead to a good chance? Was it Mourinho's fault that most of our players seemed to always need an extra touch or an extra second to think when they had to create while running with the ball?

The problem is that we got ourselves a 90 million poacher last summer and we can't get him to score goals lately. He's clearly trying to become a better footballer overall but these things simply don't happen overnight. Until then he needs someone to feed him. Last time Mourinho was at Chelsea he had Hazard who can draw opponents and create in tight spaces but, most importantly, he had Fabregas on incredible form, especially during the first half of the season, doing two jobs simultaneously on the pitch: he was at the epicentre of the counter-attacks deep in Chelsea's half but he had also managed to develop an excellent understanding with Costa at the end of their team's attacking moves.

Now, how much we've missed Pogba as our orchestrator in deeper areas of the pitch has been discussed to death. As for the second part, we started the season with the hope that Mkhitaryan would be the one who would connect the midfield with the attack when we transition the ball quickly from the back and that Mata would be the one who would be able to get the ball to our main man whenever we had to face 10 men behind the ball. They have both performed poorly thus far in the season. Lately, we've seen Mourinho trying to figure out if Martial can be the player who can link-up with Lukaku efficiently (you see Tony trying to occupy spaces closer to Romely in the last matches). We're also trying to see if Zlatan can play any role in the attacking half. We're trying to do stuff, it's not like Moyes or LvG when we were constantly trying to break through a concrete wall.

He's struggling with this squad, which is something for which he has to share the blame, but we're not a ship without a captain wandering in the wilderness. That's my take on it, anyway. Some players improving over the course of the season, a couple of new additions and i can see us getting (or coming close to) where we want to go. Whether some of us would prefer a different approach in terms of footballing style is a different matter. For example, Spurs haven't created more chances than us this season (statistically) but their game looks far more smooth an easy on the eye because Kane is constantly adding things to his game and because Erikssen has developed, over the last seasons, a very good understanding with both him and Dele. And this season they have relied heavily on Kane to score goals out of nothing and win them matches. What we lack is this type of understanding between our creative players. But these things usually take some time to function well on the pitch.

I should buy you a drink for this.

What a post! Balanced, reasonable, objective and hits on the core issues.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I wasn’t referring to yesterday’s game particularly mate, but just in general based on how we’ve developed under his tutelage.

Fair enough, i still believe that what was hurt us most at the start of this season is the total lack of a plan B, when Pogba can't play, and his insistence on the Matic-Herrera-Miki triangle when it was clear that it bore little fruit. That's on him and, if both Mata and Mkhitaryan fail to develop a good understanding with Lukaku by the end of season, this will be on him too because both are players who seemingly aren't suited to his game plan and he chose to trust both of them as his main creative force. But, in general, i still think we're moving towards reaching our target (becoming a good transition side). I agree that he ought to be more adventurous at times (not necessarily by over-committing players but mainly by maintaining a higher tempo for larger parts of a game) but i think that in most occasions we created enough and deserved our wins (when we won).

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

@GM K

Cheers, mate.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

You're correct. There was more posts in 5 minutes after the game last night than there was in two days after the Newcastle win. Says it all for me.

Also, the same posters who use the words "Amusing", "Hyperbole" "Mourinho apologists" when you point this unavoidable truth. It really upsets them when we play well and win as they don't get their chance to throw up their usual inane regurgitated rhetoric.

You can see from the matchday forum and from what @haram posted you could see we were not playing the "defesnsive, cowardly" football blah blah that they spam ad nauseam.

 

[haram]

It really upsets them when we play well and win as they don't get their chance to throw up their usual inane regurgitated rhetoric.

Which is toxic and a complete farce considering we are supposed to be fans.

 

[GM K]

Because Mourinho regularly plays negative football away from home. You're citing the first half but conveniently ignoring the second half here where it's widely agreed upon we were very poor.

There is a difference between setting up a team just to defend and going out to play but your players feck up.

I'll say the latter is what we experienced at Stamford Bridge, Huddersfield and Basel - our three loses this season.

The only game we really set out to defend throughout was the Anfield game IMO.

People need to watch the Chelsea game again without emotions. It was real end to end stuff. Neutrals must have enjoyed it. Unfortunately, it was a game that exposed how much we are short on real ballers in our team.

Against Basel, we could have hit them with at least three goals in the first half. In the second half, I don't believe Jose asked them to go out there and fight for a draw. I think the boys simply crumbled. If Jose wanted a draw, he could have added more defensive players to the team while he pulled out the more attacking player. You don't throw Zlatan and Rashford into a game if you are thinking of defending a point.

What Jose needs to do is to work on preparing his players better psychologically and getting them to be more expressive on the pitch, especially away from home. He also needs to recruit more ballers into that team. He seems to prefer grafters over ballers from what I have observed. Ballers give you beautiful football and their football intelligence often create more chances in the last third.

 

[Treble]

Also, the same posters who use the words "Amusing", "Hyperbole" "Mourinho apologists" when you point this unavoidable truth. It really upsets them when we play well and win as they don't get their chance to throw up their usual inane regurgitated rhetoric.

You can see from the matchday forum and from what @haram posted you could see we were not playing the "defesnsive, cowardly" football blah blah that they spam ad nauseam.

Why would there be many posts after a win vs a newly promoted team at home? What does such a win show about the manager of a top top team? Nothing.

If United beat City there will be many posts in this thread. And if it happens with a great performance there will be many many posts on here.

On the other hand, when you are supposed to be "hard to beat" and lose 3 from your last 4 away games, then discussons are inevtiable. To explain the many posts on here with negativity is laughably ineadequate.

 

[Raees]

OMG WE WERE SO BAD @Raees

People say posters on here have no agenda against Mourinho, when some people are trying to claim we were bad in the first half. Complete horseshit.

Why does Lukaku always react so slow??? A ball pumped forward to Felliani he should be ready for the head down on his toes!! Not reacting after it's done!! Same thing when people play through balls... he should have scored earlier!!

Been very Europa League so far.

Shit team with 11 behind the ball on a terrible pitch.

That sequence of play says all it all about our fullbacks

Can someone please tell Herrera and Fellaini they are allowed to pass the ball forward!!!

Can someone please tell Herrera and Fellaini they are allowed to pass the ball forward!!!

No one said we were so bad, defensively we looked very secure in that first half but on the ball, our full backs were shite, Lukaku was poor and the midfield base was very conservative and sluggish. Pogba and Martial were the only players receiving any praise, other than Rojo who was exemplary. It was overall a controlled but generally below par performance by a side of United's size against a very poor side away from home. Nevertheless, acceptable considering the context (top of our group) and yes agreed, we saw similar level performances under Fergie.

Second half is a different kettle of fish.

My bone of contention with you is you are saying we battered them in the first half. We were the better side, and did create more chances by the end (some nice crosses by Martial/great shot by Rojo) but by and large, we had 6 players out of our starting XI who were really poor (Blind, Darmian, Herrera, Fellaini (got in good positions, on the ball average so might be harsh on him), Lingard, Lukaku).. so when half your team isn't quite at the races, how are you effectively going to batter the opposition?

 

[Borden]

Wow, people are actually complaining there weren’t enough posts sucking Mourinho’s cock after we beat Newcastle at home?

 

[PoTMS]

First half was good. Second half was an abomination. Why did we stop playing football? We looked like Liverpool against Sevilla. And once again after falling behind, we decide to play like Stoke. This is becoming a increasingly worrying trend.

 

[haram]

5 replies and none of them say we played bad

Wow, people are actually complaining there weren’t enough posts sucking Mourinho’s cock after we beat Newcastle at home?

There was plenty of shite posted against Mourinho when we beat Spurs without Pogba.

First half was good. Second half was an abomination. Why did we stop playing football? We looked like Liverpool against Sevilla. And once again after falling behind, we decide to play like Stoke. This is becoming a increasingly worrying trend.

We went behind in the 88th minute though?

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

Fair enough, i still believe that what was hurt us most at the start of this season is the total lack of a plan B, when Pogba can't play, and his insistence on the Matic-Herrera-Miki triangle when it was clear that it bore little fruit.

When Pogba doesn’t play our midfield falls apart. Hence why we resort to hoof ball to Fellaini or lumping it randomly up the field hoping Lukaku holds it up (with team mates miles away). Alternatively we’ll laboriously pass it side to side until a FB puts in a poor cross. Matic-Herrera midfield struggles to link the play forward while Miki is shit at dropping deep and becoming the third midfielder. Everything is disjointed.

I posted a rant a little while back and to paraphrase it, it’s fecking annoying that the entirety of our midfield play hinges on one player. We are absolute turd at any prolonged periods of possession and absolutely rely on the opposition committing players forward for space rather than creating it for ourselves via any coherent patterns of play.

That’s on Jose.

That's on him and, if both Mata and Mkhitaryan fail to develop a good understanding with Lukaku by the end of season, this will be on him too because both are players who seemingly aren't suited to his game plan and he chose to trust both of them as his main creative force. But, in general, i still think we're moving towards reaching our target (becoming a good transition side). I agree that he ought to be more adventurous at times (not necessarily by over-committing players but mainly by maintaining a higher tempo for larger parts of a game) but i think that in most occasions we created enough and deserved our wins (when we won).

 

[RedPed]

Let's also stop pointing to squad players as the problem. We have a squad up there with the best in English football and yet people calling our players average/shit.

You don't follow the matchday threads then?? We have some really great players but we also have a few average ones.

Huh? They are squad players and they don't always start. They sometimes start in some games like last night which is what they are for.

Even if jose starts smalling or fellaini over some in most games, who are we to question him? right?

Well he obviously has to rotate and rest the key players. We just don't have the backup options that a club like United should have.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Wow, people are actually complaining there weren’t enough posts sucking Mourinho’s cock after we beat Newcastle at home?

And this sums up the anti Mourinho brigade. Praising a performance and being happy with the manager = sucking him off.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Which is toxic and a complete farce considering we are supposed to be fans.

exactly. They muddy the waters even further and take away from any sort of constructive discourse. I am nieve in thinking that there could be a break down after both good and bad results to see what went right and what went wrong which would be subjective anyway but the polemics with no content aside from the usual inane adjectives. They make it a massive chore to get to the thoughtful or thought-provoking posts on either side of the spectrum.

 

[TheOrgazoid]

I think his pragmatic tactics are fine.

No, we are not consistently playing free-flowing attacking football in every match like Spurs and City seem to be doing.

But Pep and Pochettino are clearly trying to get their teams playing good football as a matter of priority.
They are succeeding.

Jose, however, is not trying to get us playing pretty football. He is trying to win the league and progress from the group stage of the CL.
We are still (just about) in the title race and will probably beat CSKA to top our group in CL.
So Jose is also succeeding at what he is trying to do.

The only thing that Jose has failed to do well enough is recruitment.
He has had two summer windows and a winter one (another one coming up shortly) and we still have too many mediocre players.

If Jose/Woodward had been more ruthless in terms of who is good enough then our squad options would consist of fewer players that are incapable of making a difference when called upon.

And we could have bought a decent winger and left back for the money we spent on Mhki and Lindelof.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

In fairness from about the first minute the lads didn’t really look up to it. They treated it like a friendly. We played some nice stuff and outclassed them in the first half, but it was all done at a pace and intensity resembling a training game and Basel seemed happy to let us.
It’s the managers job to make sure that doesn’t happen but not sure we can really hand him out to dry based on people just not caring. The transition from attack back to defending were awful. At one point Herrera, Pogba and Fellaini all just look down and trod back half arsed. I’d imagine Jose is giving them an absolute bollocking for that.

His tactics yesterday or against Newcastle were vastly different from his normal tentative ways.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Why would there be many posts after a win vs a newly promoted team at home? What does such a win show about the manager of a top top team? Nothing.

If United beat City there will be many posts in this thread. And if it happens with a great performance there will be many many posts on here.

On the other hand, when you are supposed to be "hard to beat" and lose 3 from your last 4 away games, then discussions are inevitable. To explain the many posts on here with negativity is laughably inadequate.

You have just literally made a parody of what I was talking about. Regardless of whether we are supposed to beat a side or not, it is rather disingenuous for supposed fans to not comment on good wins or performances regardless of the opposition. The same thing happened against Spurs who are constantly being praised on here for good reason and are used as an example by certain sections of the forum of how we should play yet when we beat them the best you get from this section of posters is backhanded compliments or complete radio silence. Also please point out the "discussions" and how many there were compared to the usual generic insults and polemics. When people get asked to explain their reasoning or challenged why they think something then they get replies like "Mourinho apologists" or complaing that they are "not allowed to have an opinion" when in fact they are being asked about their opinion. The reason they do this is that of 2 possibilities which are either down to their outspoken agenda of negativity or they just can't be bothered and in both cases, it causes a toxic and unconstructive environment.


This is the point I am making. When talking about a game I want to see actual discussion, not the ad hominins and baseless opinions with no attempt to articulate them.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

OMG WE WERE SO BAD @Raees

People say posters on here have no agenda against Mourinho, when some people are trying to claim we were bad in the first half. Complete horseshit.

This marries up perfectly to Mourinho's analysis (taken from official united forum):

PERFECT FIRST HALF WITHOUT THE GOALS
“The first half was a perfect half without the goals. It was difficult to repeat in the second half, we knew the opponent would try a different reaction. We lost because in the first half we should be 5-0 up but we could not score one goal after being so dominant. It looked for many periods in the first half that it was impossible not to win. I think the majority of the second half the feeling of everyone was okay, it will be 0-0, but they got the late goal."

POGBA GOING OFF HAD AN IMPACT
"Did Pogba coming off have an impact on the team? I think it did have an impact, we were not such a good team after Paul came off but it had to be with the levels of fatigue after 65 minutes. I brought to the pitch an experienced player like [Nemanja] Matic and thought it couldn't affect the game. I bring Marcus [Rashford] to give us more speed, more problems to them, Zlatan [Ibrahimovic] to hold the ball and the approach was good.”

NO COMPLAINTS
“I cannot complain or blame the players. I think we play a match like this 10 times and nine times we win comfortably but the one was now. I lost here with Chelsea also in the last minute, we had one shot on target and played really bad, but that wasn't the case today. I think we were really, really good in the first half.”

THE APPROACH
“We played against a team with five defenders, we knew that we tried to play with three attacking players, that worked in the first half. We didn’t score in the second half, we knew one point was enough. In the end, we lost so it's hard for me to be upset with the players. In the first half, the attitude and football was good. It’s just football. An easy match to win. It’s great for them [Basel], now they have a good chance to qualify.”

PRAISE FOR RETURNING ROJO
“[Marcos] Rojo played very well. He could be playing a couple of weeks ago. We didn’t need to rush him. The first half was very easy, he had lot of the ball, he didn’t have to be physically demanding. He controlled very well his game, so I’m really happy.”

 

[GM K]

Every manager needs to be scrutinized and criticized at one point or another and that includes Jose. He has certainly made some wrong and at times, costly calls but if we strip off all the emotions and stick to the cold, hard facts, he has done very well at United since he came. He is building a real machine of a squad. Give him two more windows and we'll be performing well consistently against the very best. But one just gets the sense that his own worst enemy is his success and the expectations people have of him. The pressure put on him and the ones he puts on himself, will tell once we have a bad run of form

 

[haram]

This marries up perfectly to Mourinho's analysis (taken from official united forum):

PERFECT FIRST HALF WITHOUT THE GOALS
“The first half was a perfect half without the goals. It was difficult to repeat in the second half, we knew the opponent would try a different reaction. We lost because in the first half we should be 5-0 up but we could not score one goal after being so dominant. It looked for many periods in the first half that it was impossible not to win. I think the majority of the second half the feeling of everyone was okay, it will be 0-0, but they got the late goal."

POGBA GOING OFF HAD AN IMPACT
"Did Pogba coming off have an impact on the team? I think it did have an impact, we were not such a good team after Paul came off but it had to be with the levels of fatigue after 65 minutes. I brought to the pitch an experienced player like [Nemanja] Matic and thought it couldn't affect the game. I bring Marcus [Rashford] to give us more speed, more problems to them, Zlatan [Ibrahimovic] to hold the ball and the approach was good.”

NO COMPLAINTS
“I cannot complain or blame the players. I think we play a match like this 10 times and nine times we win comfortably but the one was now. I lost here with Chelsea also in the last minute, we had one shot on target and played really bad, but that wasn't the case today. I think we were really, really good in the first half.”

THE APPROACH
“We played against a team with five defenders, we knew that we tried to play with three attacking players, that worked in the first half. We didn’t score in the second half, we knew one point was enough. In the end, we lost so it's hard for me to be upset with the players. In the first half, the attitude and football was good. It’s just football. An easy match to win. It’s great for them [Basel], now they have a good chance to qualify.”

PRAISE FOR RETURNING ROJO
“[Marcos] Rojo played very well. He could be playing a couple of weeks ago. We didn’t need to rush him. The first half was very easy, he had lot of the ball, he didn’t have to be physically demanding. He controlled very well his game, so I’m really happy.”

I dont get how people can really argue with what he is saying.

 

[GM K]

This marries up perfectly to Mourinho's analysis (taken from official united forum):

PERFECT FIRST HALF WITHOUT THE GOALS
“The first half was a perfect half without the goals. It was difficult to repeat in the second half, we knew the opponent would try a different reaction. We lost because in the first half we should be 5-0 up but we could not score one goal after being so dominant. It looked for many periods in the first half that it was impossible not to win. I think the majority of the second half the feeling of everyone was okay, it will be 0-0, but they got the late goal."

POGBA GOING OFF HAD AN IMPACT
"Did Pogba coming off have an impact on the team? I think it did have an impact, we were not such a good team after Paul came off but it had to be with the levels of fatigue after 65 minutes. I brought to the pitch an experienced player like [Nemanja] Matic and thought it couldn't affect the game. I bring Marcus [Rashford] to give us more speed, more problems to them, Zlatan [Ibrahimovic] to hold the ball and the approach was good.”

NO COMPLAINTS
“I cannot complain or blame the players. I think we play a match like this 10 times and nine times we win comfortably but the one was now. I lost here with Chelsea also in the last minute, we had one shot on target and played really bad, but that wasn't the case today. I think we were really, really good in the first half.”

THE APPROACH
“We played against a team with five defenders, we knew that we tried to play with three attacking players, that worked in the first half. We didn’t score in the second half, we knew one point was enough. In the end, we lost so it's hard for me to be upset with the players. In the first half, the attitude and football was good. It’s just football. An easy match to win. It’s great for them [Basel], now they have a good chance to qualify.”

PRAISE FOR RETURNING ROJO
“[Marcos] Rojo played very well. He could be playing a couple of weeks ago. We didn’t need to rush him. The first half was very easy, he had lot of the ball, he didn’t have to be physically demanding. He controlled very well his game, so I’m really happy.”

This answers a lot of questions.

 

[D2Z]

He is a coward. Nothing more to it. Also past it.

 

[haram]

 

[Treble]

You have just literally made a parody of what I was talking about. Regardless of whether we are supposed to beat a side or not, it is rather disingenuous for supposed fans to not comment on good wins or performances regardless of the opposition. The same thing happened against Spurs who are constantly being praised on here for good reason and are used as an example by certain sections of the forum of how we should play yet when we beat them the best you get from this section of posters is backhanded compliments or complete radio silence. Also please point out the "discussions" and how many there were compared to the usual generic insults and polemics. When people get asked to explain their reasoning or challenged why they think something then they get replies like "Mourinho apologists" or complaing that they are "not allowed to have an opinion" when in fact they are being asked about their opinion. The reason they do this is that of 2 possibilities which are either down to their outspoken agenda of negativity or they just can't be bothered and in both cases, it causes a toxic and unconstructive environment.


This is the point I am making. When talking about a game I want to see actual discussion, not the ad hominins and baseless opinions with no attempt to articulate them.

Completely agree here.

 

[Jeffthered]

The fact that we are posting such opinions highlights the issues facing OT. And there are issues, and the context is dictated by the question that is 'what are the ambitions and potential of this current squad'. Defensively, we have been excellent, and I am sure we will continue to be. But Man Utd isn't a club that purely expects a decent defensive line... we play at the Theatre of Dreams, and the history and culture of the club is one of expression, magic, excitement. We DO NOT have that under Mourinho and the question is whether we can cope with that. If we win the league, then yes. Or the Champions League of course.

But we are struggling, offensively, in too many games, against better sides especially. Why? the manager's philosophy and pragmatism.. and the limitations of our squad. The team is reflecting the manager's sense of doom, gloom and lack of spark.

I watched the first hour yesterday, and to suggest we were in some way playing some superior football is nonsense. For one half, we were better than a VERY VERY average team. Then we completely shut down (because unless Pogba inspires us, that seems to be that...) and we get punished.

Mikithariyan, Mata, Lindgaard, Martial, Fellani... none of these players would get into the starting XI at any of the other top sides in the Premiership. PSG, Barca, Man City I must say, all of these teams would swat aside that Basle team. But at Man Utd, it's a debate.

I can't see the players mentioned improving, and none of them will inspire the team to higher levels of performance. And that is what we may need.

However... IF, his tactics, of being defensive first, at the extent of a real attacking philosophy (unlike Klopp and Pep..) bring us a title, then we will swallow it. But it's a tenuous and risky strategy, and not an enjoyable one to watch. How can the performance of a club the size of Man Utd, be so heavily based on whether one player, plays well, and isn't injured etc.

Lukaku looks like he is struggling too, but the service has been dreadful for him. We play so very slow at times, I don't know how we expect to stretch teams.

 

[dichinero]

You have just literally made a parody of what I was talking about. Regardless of whether we are supposed to beat a side or not, it is rather disingenuous for supposed fans to not comment on good wins or performances regardless of the opposition. The same thing happened against Spurs who are constantly being praised on here for good reason and are used as an example by certain sections of the forum of how we should play yet when we beat them the best you get from this section of posters is backhanded compliments or complete radio silence. Also please point out the "discussions" and how many there were compared to the usual generic insults and polemics. When people get asked to explain their reasoning or challenged why they think something then they get replies like "Mourinho apologists" or complaing that they are "not allowed to have an opinion" when in fact they are being asked about their opinion. The reason they do this is that of 2 possibilities which are either down to their outspoken agenda of negativity or they just can't be bothered and in both cases, it causes a toxic and unconstructive environment.


This is the point I am making. When talking about a game I want to see actual discussion, not the ad hominins and baseless opinions with no attempt to articulate them.

I agree but it works both ways.

The way I see it, the MO of the manager is what has caused the divide and that is perfectly fine with me. But what I can't stand is when either extreme accuses the other of not being a united fan because their aforementioned choice. This is when it starts getting toxic imo. When it gets to that point, discussions are often pointless.

 

[VeevaVee]

All this bleating on about "agenda" from posters who blindly defend/praise everything about Jose is amusing.

'Agenda' gets used against anyone with an opinion, and 'kneejerk' get used against anyone that talks about something that just happened, as if you're supposed to wait before commenting on the last game. Fecking annoying buzzwords

 

[prtk0811]

No one said we were so bad, defensively we looked very secure in that first half but on the ball, our full backs were shite, Lukaku was poor and the midfield base was very conservative and sluggish. Pogba and Martial were the only players receiving any praise, other than Rojo who was exemplary. It was overall a controlled but generally below par performance by a side of United's size against a very poor side away from home. Nevertheless, acceptable considering the context (top of our group) and yes agreed, we saw similar level performances under Fergie.

Second half is a different kettle of fish.

My bone of contention with you is you are saying we battered them in the first half. We were the better side, and did create more chances by the end (some nice crosses by Martial/great shot by Rojo) but by and large, we had 6 players out of our starting XI who were really poor (Blind, Darmian, Herrera, Fellaini (got in good positions, on the ball average so might be harsh on him), Lingard, Lukaku).. so when half your team isn't quite at the races, how are you effectively going to batter the opposition?

Martial was threatening, But even him made bad decisions on and off the ball. With better movement he could have gone on one on one against the keeper comming inside the full back but he stays wide all the time and never beats his fullback positionally.

Him and rashford seriously needs to watch neymar videos to imrprove.

 

[prtk0811]

I dont get how people can really argue with what he is saying.

The only critisim is he trusts this Second choice to defend defend defend because we knew one point as enough but he does not know that this defense with these set of players are not capable of it.

You can defend by keeping the ball too and having control. Giving up of the ball is what i dont like at all to conceed all the attacking initiative to the opposition.