You got yourself bro, basically you are saying that you dont actually watch us and blindly look at results. Which which explain your posts a lot. You are welcome.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
- Thread starter Suedesi
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I can see Chelsea and Spurs getting 2nd and 3rd easily, we will battle with Liverpool and Arsenal for the 4th place, which we should win.
We played terrible against Liverpool, guaranteed, but today it was an even game in the first half, but don't know what happened during the second one though but you can't definitely say we didn't try to go for it or parked the bus today.
Yeah I leave the great insight of football knowledge for you.
Last 11 away games against the top 6, 5 draws and six loses... Surely a change of approach is needed?
Awww dont be like that, come back.
I wouldn't be so sure. We will continue to destroy the smaller teams consistently and we will get some wins against the top sides when we play them at home (see Spurs, even without our best player)
It's been a rough month for us with some terrible football, but I think people are getting carried away. We've had three very difficult games, almost back to back in City at the Bridge, Liverpool at Anfield and Spurs who are capable of playing the best football in the league, all without our best player available. Once we get some easier fixtures back, if we continue to struggle, that's when I'll start getting worried.
I'm betting on second or third (assuming City don't capitulate - which is looking very unlikely now)
I agree. City will win handy. We will be fighting for second/third.
It would be an improvement but perhaps not enough of an improvement given a) the money we've spent and b) the type of manager we've backed.
In a way it seems harsh to judge him to such a high standard. After all, we are currently in second place so still face fewer difficulties than Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs or Liverpool. We're also facing a City side who look particularly formidable atm, more so than recent PL winners have.
In a way though that's the point. Mourinho was hired and financially backed to be better than Pep and City amongst others. They're currently setting the standard he's expected to meet. If they end up being better than us, he hasn't really done his job. If they end up being a lot better than us, while also playing much better football, then he definitely hasn't done his job.
It's still very early and a lot could and probably will change but at the moment we seem to be falling into the latter category. Which warrants an amount of sensible criticism, I think.
He's doing a good job is Jose.
Mourinho's last 10 away games v the 'big six':
0-0
0-3
0-0
0-0
0-4
0-0
0-2
1-2
0-0
0-1
goal scored in 900+ minutes.
Grim
____________________________
Wow. That's fecking appalling.
Awful. What is expected of the players if your manager has an inferior complex. Clearly rubs off it seems.
What to do with a problem like Jose......
He’s a winner will always have his teams challenging for and winning trophies and for most teams that’s enough despite the negative tactics and all else that goes with it.
In an ideal world you’d have a manger rebuild the club top to bottom just like SAF did but that don’t happen anymore. Mangers stay for 2-3 years 3 or 4 bad games and they’re gonners. Look at Chelsea and Madrid’s scatter gun approach to dismissing mangers. Knock it all you like but it works.
The only team to stop Madrid was the great Barca teams and you could argue in Jose’s favour that without City’s amazing start to the season life would look a bit more rosey at Old Trafford.....
I’m not saying sack Jose but this player sell this player but I think the Board is failing the players and the manager.
Back Mourinho and his style of play knowing that trophies are almost certain or so we follow the new breed and be ruthless, get rid of Jose sign a DOF with a clear transfer strategy and be happy having a high turnover of mangers every 2-3-4 years?
He’s a winner will always have his teams challenging for and winning trophies and for most teams that’s enough despite the negative tactics and all else that goes with it.
In an ideal world you’d have a manger rebuild the club top to bottom just like SAF did but that don’t happen anymore. Mangers stay for 2-3 years 3 or 4 bad games and they’re gonners. Look at Chelsea and Madrid’s scatter gun approach to dismissing mangers. Knock it all you like but it works.
The only team to stop Madrid was the great Barca teams and you could argue in Jose’s favour that without City’s amazing start to the season life would look a bit more rosey at Old Trafford.....
I’m not saying sack Jose but this player sell this player but I think the Board is failing the players and the manager.
Back Mourinho and his style of play knowing that trophies are almost certain or so we follow the new breed and be ruthless, get rid of Jose sign a DOF with a clear transfer strategy and be happy having a high turnover of mangers every 2-3-4 years?
That can be crazy, but I don't think we have spent enough money tbh, in fact I think we need to even spend more. We have spend lots of money before Mourinho came on average players and that was the result. The thing I'll blame Mourinho on is he should have got more players and did an overhaul for the squad in 2 seasons just like what Pep did, which he didn't make. The squad is short on playmakers, right flanks and full backs and we should have spent more money to reinforce them like what City did on their full back position for example. You can't say we spent and enforced the team with the same way City did. That's just not true at all.
A manager deserves to get a part of the blame for any lose or bad result. My point is that we're definitely not in a crisis. I think we'll look better starting from the next game with players returning and some tweaks in the formations and tactics.
This has been said many times by me and others on here, specifically when criticising Jose, but we have absolutely no attacking rhythm about us at all.
It’s all impromptu and hoping for the best. There’s no pattern to speak of; sometimes we string some passes together and something works, but often, especially against teams who sit in, it completely fails.
There’s just no shape about us when we attack; we just hope for the best. Jose can't take full responsibility, but he should take a huge amount of it. Of course we have players out of form (Miki being a big one), and Pogba being injured is clearly a big loss, but when it comes to attacking, or coaching the attack, he seems to be severely lacking.
It’s all impromptu and hoping for the best. There’s no pattern to speak of; sometimes we string some passes together and something works, but often, especially against teams who sit in, it completely fails.
There’s just no shape about us when we attack; we just hope for the best. Jose can't take full responsibility, but he should take a huge amount of it. Of course we have players out of form (Miki being a big one), and Pogba being injured is clearly a big loss, but when it comes to attacking, or coaching the attack, he seems to be severely lacking.
You have six teams vying for one spot. Where else in the top leagues in Europe do you have that? One in France, two/three in spain, two/three in Italy and one in Germany. This means that the top six teams in England have it much harder to win the league. Last year it was Chelsea, this year will be City and next year I would bet will be someone different again.
I see some posters saying we have spent X amount of money and have Mourinho as a manager. Therefore we should be doing better. But City and Chelsea have also spent lots. Spurs have a good manager, as do Liverpool. There is so much competition that five teams will lose out. Levy even said this at the start of season, that spending millions is not a guarantee of success because there is only one position that leads to winning. In ways we are victims of our own success under Ferguson, because Utd winning really kick-started the league that we see now and all the money in it.
I said it before, that if we win either the league or the CL, under Mourinho, we will be doing well. The other thing as well, is the grass is not necessarily greener by getting another manager. Look at Liverpool. They were full sure they would succeed under Klopp and have won nothing. Spurs have also won nothing despite being lauded as a great team. It just goes to show the level of the competition that the six teams face.
The real winners of this are the neutral fans and the players/coaches. Troy Deeney is on 50,000 a week. he would simply not earn that kind of money in any other league, given the type of player he is and who he plays for.
I see some posters saying we have spent X amount of money and have Mourinho as a manager. Therefore we should be doing better. But City and Chelsea have also spent lots. Spurs have a good manager, as do Liverpool. There is so much competition that five teams will lose out. Levy even said this at the start of season, that spending millions is not a guarantee of success because there is only one position that leads to winning. In ways we are victims of our own success under Ferguson, because Utd winning really kick-started the league that we see now and all the money in it.
I said it before, that if we win either the league or the CL, under Mourinho, we will be doing well. The other thing as well, is the grass is not necessarily greener by getting another manager. Look at Liverpool. They were full sure they would succeed under Klopp and have won nothing. Spurs have also won nothing despite being lauded as a great team. It just goes to show the level of the competition that the six teams face.
The real winners of this are the neutral fans and the players/coaches. Troy Deeney is on 50,000 a week. he would simply not earn that kind of money in any other league, given the type of player he is and who he plays for.
i think we just have to now face the fact that like Klopp and Pep don't seem to really know how to coach defending and how to properly structure a back 4, Mourinho doesn't seem to know how how to coach attacking,
The attack we have is far better then we have seen today, and you have too look at the coaching methods.
The attack we have is far better then we have seen today, and you have too look at the coaching methods.
According to a poster in another thread, Pep has had 7m more in net spend than Mourinho since they arrived? In today's market that's next to no difference. I'm not sure Mou could reasonably expect to have been financially backed much more.
Agree that we're certainly not in crisis though. Second place in November is fine, especially as our fixtures improve now. I wouldn't really read too much into today's result.
He has to be more ruthless in the transfer market. I know it's the job for our board but the amount of appreciation he has given the likes of fellaini, herrera, lingard , young is a joke. He is clearly falling to the trap of overrating these average players. Get a world class number 10 who can zip in some wonderful balls. Blaming lukaku is easy but he can only do so much. Jose has to be more ruthless. This whole crap that I only needed 4 players showed how much he overrated our players.
That don't mean much considering the number of players both managers signed. We have spent 164m on 2 players only ( Pogba and Lukaku ). Mourinho should have bought more players in other attacking positions to fill the gabs. That's the thing he should be blamed on.
Me neither. But I would read into our complete inability to string more than a couple of passes together, our complete inability to play ourselves out of pressure, our complete inability to find space, and our complete inability to counterattack.
The quality of our football is something you would expect to see in a team battling relegation, not (one of) the biggest club in the world.
I remember the rare time SAF would lose a match , and people would be calling for his head, especially in his last year. This place is so extreme, and short sighted,no middle ground, just impulse responses
Pretty much.
See this is the problem spending money alone will not guarantee shit. Everton has spent some insane money, does that mean they will automatically perform better. Ac milan has spent close to £200million but how big a difference has that made to their results. City had some quality attackers for long, we had 0 quality attackers. Rashford and Martial may be in 2 years time could be tearing apart on their own but not now.
The truth is when city were buying aguero, silva, kDB we were buying Owen, kagawa, depay. Sir alex also need to take some blame for haggling to pay fee to buy hazard and letting go the likes of silva to city. He was too focussed on giving giggs his record and too keen on bringing back scholes. When arsenal were buying ozil and Sanchez we were buying fellaini and falcao. It goes long back. Our transfer success has been bad to average . Jose hae done a very good job but in today's time 200 million will only get you 3 or 4 players and that too no guarantees that you will get a real quality. Our scouting system must improve, our long term planning must improve. Just because we have spent huge doesn't mean we automatically could dominate the league.
Agree, the quality of our football leaves a lot to be desired. I figured that would likely be the case when we hired Mourinho though, so I'd generally prefer to avoid criticising him in that regard and instead double down on criticism of results. Those are the terms he'd argue he should be judged on so that's what we should do when they come in.
Who ever wants JM sacked is mental imo, sick and tired of pressing that soft reset button, then again think he is slowly angling to feck off somewhere else soon anyway.
Another thing, people here when defending JM as solution see in buying new players, which is annoying a bit. I mean, every single time, when things look bad they come out and say bullshit like "we need X type or that player", really!? what happened with coaching part? When it comes to attacking, some teams compared with us look like they are from another planet. And no, its not because they have X player/s and we dont, if people cant see that there is no idea, no patern of play in our attacking game then...
I always said, parking bus and being defensive, was never an issue for me but holy shit, playing counter in hoofing mode?! What the feck they doing on training, practicing defense only?!
Another thing, people here when defending JM as solution see in buying new players, which is annoying a bit. I mean, every single time, when things look bad they come out and say bullshit like "we need X type or that player", really!? what happened with coaching part? When it comes to attacking, some teams compared with us look like they are from another planet. And no, its not because they have X player/s and we dont, if people cant see that there is no idea, no patern of play in our attacking game then...
I always said, parking bus and being defensive, was never an issue for me but holy shit, playing counter in hoofing mode?! What the feck they doing on training, practicing defense only?!
Aww, okay then!
Get your tracksuit on Jose, you won't be needing that black suit, white shirt combo for a while.
Time to hunker down and get to work on clawing back the deficit.
Time to hunker down and get to work on clawing back the deficit.
Yay, welcome back!
Oh I agree, I'm not saying that spending money means you should win the league. I'm just saying that spending money should mean we don't use lack of financial backing as an excuse. The problem isn't that we didn't spend enough and the solution isn't to simply spend more.
I was happy enough with our approach today, would struggle to find something to criticise tbh.
Maybe Mikhitariyan should have come off earlier but when a semi fit Fellaini is the back up you wouldn't want to bring him on too early i suppose.
Chelsea were better and we gave Fabregas and Hazard too easy a time but they're hard players to stop. Thems the breaks
I'd take todays performance over the liverpool one despite the result.
Maybe Mikhitariyan should have come off earlier but when a semi fit Fellaini is the back up you wouldn't want to bring him on too early i suppose.
Chelsea were better and we gave Fabregas and Hazard too easy a time but they're hard players to stop. Thems the breaks
I'd take todays performance over the liverpool one despite the result.
Just as well, it’s getting cold and wet!
Jose out.
True. His choice of attire to reflect his mood kinda loses it's credence during a winter in Manchester.
Exactly. Chances at Stamford Bridge are always likely to be few and far between, but the fact our best chance came from a punt into the box for Fellaini to chest down and hit is indicative of our general approach. We don't usually look that bereft of ideas (against big sides we usually do, particularly away from home), but there is absolutely no form of attacking identity at the moment. Really disheartening.
He won't ever change. So I and others clinging before on that small hope he'd adapt somewhat is hopeless.
I don't mind a pragmatic approach, but we look utterly clueless in attack.
It's hard to not complain if the results don't compensate for the poor football on display.
I don't mind a pragmatic approach, but we look utterly clueless in attack.
It's hard to not complain if the results don't compensate for the poor football on display.
"Let the horses run free..."
The current problem with Mourinho is how persistent he is with Mkhi. With Mkhi playing how he is. Would rather push Jones into midfield and play Blind as CB than playing like with 10 men like this. Keep getting outnumbered in midfield, and the forwards completely being cut of service. I think it's been over a month now.
It is good to keep faith, but can be annoying. At the start of Moyes I just did keep saying he would need time and it would help him although things just turned worse and worse. We had a period of gritty wins before Christmas when I genuinely started to think he could get us on the right track.
Then we had tripple defeats against Spurs, Swansea (cup) and Sunderland and the faith quickly turned away. When Sunderland knocked us out in the league cup after a dreadful performance where we played on the results hoping to hold them off for 120 minutes due to the weird away rule it was just fecking torture to watch. You just knew we would feck it up as we did and then we got it to penalties anyway and you got a slim hope again just for us to score 1/4 I think and be totally dreadful.
With LVG I quickly started to question him due to the sluggish football you could see already in game 2 and 3 (1-1 against Sunderland and 0-0 against Burnley). Add the terrible MK Dons game and I thought early he was the wrong man. He never really turned that faith around even if he managed to grind out some results.
With Mourinho now we got some good cup wins last season. We have managed to get results at times and we defend really well. Although the attack has never impressed much particular with all the money we have spent. We brought in players like Ibrahimovic, Mkhitaryan, Pogba and now Lukaku as well so you would have thought we would play better going forward.
I still think we could win the league though by getting the results although with City being so impressive it will be very difficult.
He needs to stop sniping at everyone, giving interviews to the French press etc and focus on getting us back on a winning run.
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