That's a contradiction. Given where we were, to compete for titles is asking for instant success.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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That's a contradiction. Given where we were, to compete for titles is asking for instant success.
We're not asking for trophies is what I meant. For example, there's a big difference between 2012 under Fergie and 2018 under Mou. Both times we got 2nd, but we were in the actual title race in 2012. That is acceptable. Mou's history is that he wins big titles fairly quickly and so the bar was set even lower for practically everyone here because of how far off we were under Moyes and LVG. Yet, 2 years in and he's not even able to achieve a title challenge.
And there are many like me who even though he has failed in that respect, are still willing to give him a chance if he can get United to look like they actually have chemistry on the pitch. He has failed in that respect too. The bar isn't all that high.
Yeah let's just ignore the fact we won two trophies that season and played in the EL which affected our league performances. I can't understand why people get so hung up on our league position last season. It was clear as day that Mourinho prioritised the EL.
I thought there was a universal consensus on how impossible it has been for everyone to keep up with City this season. Before the Brighton game we were on course to finish the season with 86 points. A dead rubber game, with a performance to match. In every normal season 86 points is fighting for the title.
I get people criticising the style of football. I get people criticising the team selection and setup against Sevilla. But on the whole, I think he's improved the first XI and he's stopped the rot. If he is backed to address some glaring issues with the side in the summer I expect a much better campaign next season. But IMV that depends on him being backed in the market, substantially. And the same would go for every other manager you'd replace him with. I don't think there's a manager out there who'd make world beaters out of our current squad. At all.
Ferguson had a very good team full of players who knew how to compete and win, and City at that point still (just abouts) operated within the realms of sporting dignity - as I’ve said, City’s current back-ups would be first teamers here.
Guardiola with Smalling, Valencia, Young, Mata and Lingard as mainstays of his team wouldn’t finish second, IMO.
The team lacks chemistry going forward primarily because it has no natural width that Mourinho’s been asking for - he wanted Perisic, he was told to utilise Martial and Rashford then eventually got Sanchez. He’s wanted to replace Shaw with someone like Rose, but hasn’t as yet been allowed to so has to play Ashley Young. Give him ‘his’ players and then judge him.
Exactly this - Pochettino has a much better squad, yet will struggle to qualify for the Champions League. Guardiola with the same squad would struggle to secure top 4, IMO; in Europe, I see only someone like Simeone being able to match what Jose is with these playing resources.
I genuinely think Jose wanted Morata for his superior ability in holding the ball up, but got terrible-touch Lukaku instead because Woodward’s in bed with Raiola. He’s working in constant compromise, and overachieving.
Sorry I don’t buy in to that. That is just something people tell themselves to make themselves feel better. I think there was 1 game where he actually threw it and put on the kids and funnily enough it was a great performance by them and if I recall we won. The top 4 spot wasn’t thrown at all in any way it was already gone.
We also won an FA cup under LVG, because according to quite a few on here performance doesn’t matter, only trophies.
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Nobody forced Jose to have Smalling, Valencia, Young, Mata and Lingard as the mainstays of his team, I see you left out Fellaini, how do you know he doesn't love them all as much as he loves him. The idea that Perisic is the answer to our attacking problems and he was 'told' to use Martial and Rashford is hilarious. He wanted to replace Shaw? Shaw has played like 5 games all season, defend Jose all you want stop making up shit like this. 'Give him his players'? We've given him eight!
Well the manager above him has added 18 players (12 that have featured in the first team) so by your logic we shouldn't complain about being in 2nd this year. As for Shaw, doesn't that really prove that he wanted a replacement? Unless Jose is given an unlimited transfer funds then he is forced to make due with some of the current players and prioritize position he feels are more important. He's been given a vast amount of funds to improve the squad that was in dire need of an overhaul and he has. The same will be done this summer and expectations will increase from there.
Given your logic Liverpool and Spurs should be in relegation and not few points behind us with one in the CL final playing better football. You've heard he's trying to keep hold of Darmian and Fellaini right? Is the club 'forcing' him to do this too?
Who from United’s team would get in Tottenham’s? De Gea, Sanchez and Matic?
Pogba on form yes, but when not he’s less reliable as an orthodox midfielder than Dembele or Wanyama, nor as good as Eriksen in an advanced position. Martial would likely be better appreciated by Pochettino, but he’s still bi-polar in his performances.
Note that Rose and Dier are coveted by Jose, and aren’t even guaranteed starters for them.
They’re the best, or most reliable, of a bad bunch. Pep’s been given everything he wants to make his system work - Jose hasn’t. Laporte, Danilo and Bernardo would be key starters at United, but are spare parts at City. That’s the difference.
Perisic won’t win a Balon D’Or, but he’d provide the width that’s currently lacking, stretch the play and cross the ball; key elements currently missing from the attacking play and make it look laboured.
I’m a huge Luke Shaw fan, but he clearly doesn’t want/like him, something I suspect has something to do with his brother being the mole leaking stuff to the press last season.
Some fans have been brainwashed by the Arabball being played over the road - in real terms, Mourinho’s doing well. It ain’t always pretty, but it’s generally effective and all part of the evolutionary process.
Maybe they’d be happier to sell the club’s soul to a tyrant and put all the players on the ‘nutritional’ plan that’s caused David Silva’s hair transplant to fail....
You should take a minute to actually research Klopps and Pochettino's signings at Liverpool and Tottenham and see if what you wrote makes any sense. Yes, I've heard Jose publicly state he wants to keep Fellaini, haven't heard the same for Darmian, either way what's your point? My post mentions Jose having to utilize current players at the club for positions where he does not rate another but do to transfer budget can't just go out and buy a replacement, example being Young to replace Shaw. What does that have to do with him wanting to keep Fellaini or Darmian for that matter?
Do you realise that these are players Jose wouldn't even want? Everyone keeps going on about Peps signings, do you realise that Jose's player preferences are very very different from Peps? Do you see Pep playing Fellaini for any reason talkless of begging him to stay? Jose doesn't do defenders like Laporte, Walker or Otamendi, hell Sane was happy City got B. Silva because according to him Jose would have played him at right back. Sterling used to be a laughing stock on here before Pep got to him now all of a sudden he's our dream player. While Pep needs defenders who can pass and attack Jose wants attackers who can defend, so all this talk about how Jose would be better with the players Pep bought makes no sense to me. Who's to say that if Jose was at City Aguero and D. Silva won't be doing a Martial right now? So if Jose gets Perisic all our attacking cluelesness will be over... hilarious stuff
A lot feel like we already did that with the man at the helm now and that he is the reason we’ve lost our soul.
Do have to wonder if this is true.”financial restrictions” we had the money to buy Griezman which was what another 80-100 mil? Money is, was available from the looks of it. We also now pay Sanchez what 3x what Miki was getting?
I get people think no money was available due to us not getting Peresic. Some reports however say that we didn’t get him because the board has faith in Martial and that they would rather Jose stuck with him. Even when apparently Jose said he could go last year in the deal that Inter wanted.
None of us know anything and just go off of reports however reading between the lines, looked like we had the money to still buy players if needed. Heck we were supposedly trying to get Neymar and in negotiations, we were also apparently in for Mbappe.
You said squad, not first 11, Utd have much more depth and options. Guys like Trippier, Davies, Sanchez(talented but raw), Dier are not exceptional players. Dembele is talented but inconsistent, Wanyama is an above average PL midfielder, not much more, they have far fewer legitimate offensive options than Utd. Guys like Lamela, Sissoka, Llorente, Moura and Winks might be names but they have produced far less than their equivalent players at Utd and would probably not get a game at Utd.
Spurs are good, but some of their names are overhyped based on achieving very little. Utd have the better squad, the second best in the league, Mourinho has done an above adequate job, results have been fine, performances have not been. We don't have to rubbish the squad to pretend that he has done a better job than he really has.
Ok? But Pep has also had unlimited funds to sign whomever he wants regardless of anything else. Mourinho was denied the funds to sign Perisic, a player he wanted and had earmarked as a priority purchase.
Mourinho won a CL starting Maicon at RB, utilizing him to make rampaging forward runs often into the opposition box. I'd say that's like Walker, except much better. He also bought Lindelof who seems a CB in a similar vein to Laporte.
Quite literally nobody is arguing this. What is being argued is that Mourinho hasn't had the funds to address every position of weakness and that when he and Pep took over we had far more holes through the squad to address than City while also not having the limitless pool of cash they did although still a very sizable sum.
I see very few people arguing that Mourinho is perfect, but rather that he's moving us forward and that if/when he address both FB positions this summer as well as reinforcing midfield he will be expected to put in a more competitive title challenge and/or have us playing better and more aesthetically pleasing football. If he doesn't he should go. That to me seems more fair than turning a blind eye to the fact the squad he inherited wasn't good, was ageing in critical areas and lacked top class outfield players.
I agree that the funds where there for Perisic, in the end I think the board was only willing to pay up to a certain amount and his value to Inter was much higher which is why negotiations eventually broke down. I think the Griezman funds went to Lukaku, once Girezman notified United of his intentions then Lukaku became the target. Don't get me wrong I by no means think Jose is on some tight budget, very few clubs can afford to dish out 150 mil. This was only in reference to what Pep has been allowed to add to what was an already better squad.
is that true?I kinda think Lukaku was always going to be brought in along with Griezman. Just can’t see Jose going in to a season without a recognised striker and I think he would have had Griezman play inbehind Lukaku.
On Pep, yes he has spent a lot but to be fair to him he’s managed to do a lot with the money he has been afforded. Sane, Silva and Jesus are just over 100mil possibly 110 mil and most of all he has got them performing, unlike Jose but I do feel like that the fullback issue is really hampering the team as it throws so much out of whack. I just can’t decide if they are so restrained due to his instructions or just them making poor decision. A question we’ll never really know the answer to.
Interesting comments from Jose
That last paragraph directed at Pogba imo.
Didn't really understand what he wanted to say there
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11365520/giggs-salutes-utd-progress-under-jose
Nice to hear a bit of positivity from an ex player.
Nice to hear a bit of positivity from an ex player.
More likely Lindelöf no? Considering he looks so far off being a United standard centre half.
That said, I’m not sure we should dissect it word for word, he probably just means we as a club have bought some players that he doesn’t personally like and would love to buy instant replacements for. Shaw, Blind, Darmien for example.
He should fecking stop criticize and target his own squad. It could backfire
I doubt he is even in contention or of significance, he is manifesting himself as a bit part player off the radar, Caribou cup player if you will. He is failing miserably at imposing himself onto the center stage, we need a load bearing mentally fierce and strong CB that instill fear and anxiety into forwards on a consistent level. Seem like a comment more of the broad type directed at the LVG/MOYES layovers that lift salary and are mentally 'soft', complacent and took their chances at playing for us for ridiculous agent driven salary they get nowhere else when we were desperate and weakened.
It will only backfire if he doesn't have the backing of the board. If he has the backing, the players will have no choice but to look at their own performances and improve. SAF questioned the players too, at times. If the players aren't determined enough to prove Mourinho wrong, they can leave. There is no room for losers at this club.
Not much of a risk if there are going to be exits over the next few weeks.
1.Towards the end of the season, Mourinho says players with poor mentality will be culled from the squad and only the strong will survive.
2.A slew of players are sold by the club.
3.The ones that remain consider themselves to be the strong ones that Mourinho trusts.
It's not a bad strategy at this point in the campaign. Only 3 games to go, of which the final is the only one that matters. He can afford to be public about his reservations over nameless individuals. There's little downside and potentially a lot of upside. Not only does it light a fire under everyone's arse in the short term, it begins the process of building a team mentality for the long term.
Mourinho knows management and leadership. He's amongst the best in the world at it.
Who were these players?
Bebe?
I remember the great man also questioned the hunger of some players in the team a year or so after we won the treble.
Jose hasn’t said anything wrong, especially if you read the complete interview. I fact he’s only saying what most of us (the sane one’s) are probably thinking, he’s not mentioned any names, but those players know who they are.
A nice big strong traditional English Centre Half is needed.
Like a Jones or a Smalling? Nah, what we need is a Pepe or Carvalho, someone who has a bit of the dark arts, stop them at all costs mentality to toughen us up a bit at the back. Although cb would be low down list of priorities right now, new full backs should be where we try improving our defence.
Everyone knows who those players are and his way of throwing them around post match is small time.
We won the FA Cup, while finishing 5th.
And because it was the 2nd year, there was no hope of LVG improving. He went from 4th to 5th.
Jose has gone from 6th (+EL Cup + League Cup), to 2nd (+FA Cup Final).
Let's also not forget that LVG failed to qualify for the CL in his 2nd season. Jose has qualified for CL in both seasons.
Let's also not forget that Jose has been beaten to the title this season, by a team who has broken every record in the book.
What you are saying is that Jose must break every record in the book. If he fails to do so, he must be fired.
Sorry buddy, but you cannot hire someone, expecting them to break records, with a squad which is not the best in the league.
And while we're at it, if we get the FA Cup this season, that'll be 3 trophies in 2 years....which is ridiculously good, for an English side.
Jose wouldn't have won the league with City's squad
I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning players' winning mentality.
It is up to the players to step up in the subsequent games and show the manager (and the World) that they do possess the winning mentality.
I remember when Beckham got sent off in the World Cup, 1998.
That Summer, he got hammered by the press. He was basically public enemy number 1.
That season, for MUFC, Beckham was awesome and a few months later would win the treble with us.
This is what I call winning mentality.
Let's now take a look at Martial.
He clearly gets called out by the manager and what does he do? He literally puts his head down and looks miserable. He doesn't put in a POTY performance and he basically proves to the manager that he is a player, who right now, isn't good enough.
I'll put it another way. If my job depended on us winning matches and I had a choice between Martial or Sanchez. Martial would not even get a look in. Sanchez, even when he plays badly, puts in a shift. And when someone works hard and constantly aims to make something happen, eventually that player will hit good form and light things up. When a player literally puts his head down, shrugs his shoulders and gives up - it's maybe time for him to seek employment elsewhere.
At MUFC, we need people with a strong, winning mentality. Having players who are fragile won't allow us to beat MCFC next season. Jose wants to turn us into a machine and as such is looking for a response from players who want to fight for their place, just as Beckham did in 1998.
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