Its completely absurd to even contemplate sacking Mourinho now. In sacking him, its safe to say we would be assuming as a club, we could get someone else in who can improve our fortunes and challenge City next season. Who is this magical, mythical manager? Who? At the moment, we are looking like the team who is going to finish closest behind this city side, and I honestly believe only Mourinho could have done this. Granted, its a 16 point gap but his so readily criticised pragmatic approach to games got us to where we are. I agree its not always the greatest watch, and I would much prefer us to play free flowing attacking football and it is something I would like to see addressed by Mourinho in the summer, but I believe he is the right man. Fans are entitled to feel however they like about the situation, but when you consider whether you like it or not, he won us two trophies last season, has massively improved our league standing this season and potentially wins another trophy in his second season, he has actually had a good start to his tenure. Football is fickle nowadays and peoples opinions change game by game. Give him the money in the summer, let him sign the players and keep the faith. We are in the best hands we could possibly be in at this moment in time in my opinion. He gets unfair flak, and I feel even some united fans are drawn in and affected by the anti united and anti mourinho media rhetoric.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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Surely it's down to a good scouting network and equally good coaching at youth levels?
I can see your point but isn't what you're saying United did the exact same as what Spurs have done (or are doing) with Kane? It seems a bit unfair to dismiss Poch cos he has Kane at his disposal really. It's a resource he has so why not use him? It's the same argument as saying Mourinho wouldn't be doing as well if he didn't have DDG? Whilst the point is valid it's a resource they have so why not use him?
Also does he not deserve some praise? It's obvious Poch has managed to get the best our of Kane, got a system that suits him and it's working well. Similar to Mourinho deserves praise for getting the best out of Lingard for example.
I appreciate the point but I can't say I agree with it really.
Did he, though? You could certainly argue that we never properly replaced Giggs or Scholes and that the intermittent "zombie football" that afflicted the end of Fergie's reign was directly due to their waning influence.
Anyway, that's besides the point. Most big clubs have talents like Kane emerge every few years. Sometimes from their academy, sometimes by signing future stars from other clubs. Happened to Spurs with Bale, only a few years previous to Kane. Happened to Liverpool with Gerrard, Sterling and Coutinho. Arsenal had Fabregas and Van Persie. It's really not all that freakish a stroke of luck for Pocchetino to have Kane at his disposal.
The real skill from the manager comes in developing these players to be the best that they can be and by building a team around them that can meet their ambitions. The latter bit is an uphill battle for Pochettino because of his restricted budget but he's doing a great job at making Spurs seem like the best place for Kane to ply his trade right now. Doing this at United should be much easier for Mourinho, thanks to all the money he has at his disposal. Has to be said, though, his project must look far less appealing right now than what's happening at Spurs.
An academy can do everything right, but it doesn't guarantee truly elite players. You can do all the scouting, all the coaching you want. Maybe what you'll guarantee is several players good enough to have a professional career in the top four divisions, a couple of Premier League quality players, but little more. You can shift the odds in your favour, but to get a Class of 92 is luck. To get a striker like Kane is luck. If it wasn't, clubs would more consistently deliver these batches of players or these truly world class talents, but no academy really does.
Look at the top players in youth football, the most hyped prospects, there is a massive discrepancy between those who are tipped to have the best professional careers and those who actually do so. Clubs and academies cannot really account for the minor differences needed to succeed at an elite level.
You hit the nail on the head there, As much as our football is negative our players aren't helping with their mentality. They look so lethargic and uninspired at times. Even if Mourinhos football is boring for the players and they disagree with it, they are still professionals paid a fortune to do their job to the best of their abilities.
Mourinhos job is to build their confidence and inspire them, which I think he's failing at but our players need to meet him halfway and atleast give their best however uninspired/bored they are.
Only Sterling, Gerrard and Kane came through their academies. Spurs would never be able to attract Kane if he were outside of the club. Zero chance of them getting Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Agüero to replace him. He's that good. They have neither the financial muscle nor the gravitas to attract that sort of player. If Kane has a serious injury or decided to try a change a scenery Spurs have a real challenge because they will not be able to replace him. We're talking about a player who has scored 30+ goals a season in three out of the last four years. I think only Shearer, Wright, Fowler, Van Nistelrooy, Henry and Agüero have done that in the PL era. Kane's numbers are only not given the credit due because of Messi and Ronaldo. He's by far the best player Spurs have ever had in my lifetime.
Give me Kane or Pochettino, and I wouldn't need a second to think about it. Spurs should be the same.
Edit: Added Wright onto the list.
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I don't know if you've heard, but apparently if you aren't a serial winner you're a fraud or something...
I just want him to go at this point. Our football is shocking and nothing will change from here
That’s a really weird distinction to make. Whether a player comes through the academy, like Rashford or Kane, or is signed at a young age, like Martial or Bale, the manager who inherits them is just as “lucky”. Where the luck ends is in how effectively the manager gets the best out of them.
The problem is that these players want to leave because of the manager not giving them game time. They'd be fine with staying and developing if they played more. It's not always down to the club. It's down to how the manager treats them.
Also pretty laughable saying he was right to not give game time to de bruyne, lukaku and Salah. It just means he wasnt able to spot their talent and was too set in his own ways and not adaptable. And he got sacked because after he won the title, he had them in the bottom half of the league, and everyone had given up on him basically, while he also sold their best young players off. Not only that, but the football was dreadful. It was shit the year before, but they won the title. And Chelsea's not a club that has a rich history of playing great attacking football. That was never a big priority, but it's always a nice bonus, but when you play shit football and you aren't successful, then the manager is always on thin ice.
Mourinho will get at least one more season here which is pretty fair, but imo nothing will change and itll be his last. You need progression both in terms of play style and results. Even good play isn't okay if you go a long time without success. You need them both. It's just a lot more forgiving and you can get away with it for a longer period of time.
Tuchel? Enrique?
Fair enough, but I don't see Spurs being able to sign a proven goalscorer as good as Kane should he leave or get injured, nor being able to hone the next Kane simply because Spurs and Poch somehow have the Midas touch. For me Kane is the far more valuable asset than Pochettino.
Don't get me wrong. Poch is clearly a good coach. He is improving most of his players. He is getting far more out of his squad than Mourinho is. It is easy to look good when you have the most important piece of the puzzle in place though and yet they've still won feck all and yet to seriously challenge for the title.
You never know. No one saw Liverpool signing a goalscorer like Salah. These players are never established before they come, it's the managers that nurture them to become what they are.
Mourinho won't be sacked, especially if we finish in second. Runners-up is the best anyone could have done with City being godlike in the league. If we win the FA cup, this season will turn up to be actually a goodish one. Sevilla game was the low point of the season, however we would have lost to Bayern anyway.
Think we could have beaten Bayern. Jose and the team seem to turn up against big sides. Heck in hindsight I almost wish we got a tougher draw than Sevilla
Disagree. I think it has to go one of two ways.
Either we kick on next year and challenge for the league, as JM promises, or there's a mutiny and he walks during or at the end of the season. The players and fans are tolerating the tumescent football because the results have improved after two genuinely appalling managerial choices, but if the upward trend stops then fans, and players no doubt, will get restless very quickly.
Yes we're second this season but we haven't been realistic challengers for the last five months. It's good enough for now, but it won't be this time next year.
The only reason we cannot sack him is if there is another option out there, who would give us both success and the type of football the fans want. That is a big ask. So unfortunately we are stuck with people tearing their hair out every week watching awful football. Jose could bring the players in, it then depends if he is capable of using them in an attacking system. If he stays safety first, then those players may as well stay where they are. Also if he says how successful he has been in the past I will scream. It is the here and now that matters to United.
It is frankly absurd to consider sacking a manager who has just finished 2nd (hopefully). It's the kind of behaviour we would slate Real Madrid for in the past, despite our league now being as competitive in terms of top 4 than it has been for years. Most fans were unanimous that LVG would have deserved to stay on had he clinched top 4 for us and that was despite his brand of football and in particular acquisitions being far far worse than what they have under Jose, so why is it a different rule for Jose?
We have taken a giant leap in terms of points from last season but the performances have to improve. we are a country mile behind City but we still have glaring holes in our team. City last season looked nowhere near challenging, and finished 4th. Their football wasn't beautiful to behold either. Pep shipped out the deadwood and this season was entirely different.
As Jose has said before, we are behind City in terms of squad development and recruitment, but we must stick with this current plan and in the process ship out the remaining deadwood which has plagued our squad for 6 years and survived 3 managerial appointments.
It would be naïve to bring in a new manager and hope he can get a tune out of our current crop with blind faith, it puts us back at the start of a process again and there is no guaranteeing it would work and it may end in tears with us conceding that our squad simply isn't good enough afterall.
Jose has won everything in football, he is still one of the best managers in the world and if we sacked him tomorrow, another big club would come in for him before next season. I am putting my faith in Jose to continue to improve us, especially after our best domestic campaign in 5 seasons. If we go backwards next season or finish outside the top 4, we may have to reassess.
We have taken a giant leap in terms of points from last season but the performances have to improve. we are a country mile behind City but we still have glaring holes in our team. City last season looked nowhere near challenging, and finished 4th. Their football wasn't beautiful to behold either. Pep shipped out the deadwood and this season was entirely different.
As Jose has said before, we are behind City in terms of squad development and recruitment, but we must stick with this current plan and in the process ship out the remaining deadwood which has plagued our squad for 6 years and survived 3 managerial appointments.
It would be naïve to bring in a new manager and hope he can get a tune out of our current crop with blind faith, it puts us back at the start of a process again and there is no guaranteeing it would work and it may end in tears with us conceding that our squad simply isn't good enough afterall.
Jose has won everything in football, he is still one of the best managers in the world and if we sacked him tomorrow, another big club would come in for him before next season. I am putting my faith in Jose to continue to improve us, especially after our best domestic campaign in 5 seasons. If we go backwards next season or finish outside the top 4, we may have to reassess.
Every fecking thread.
The “continues to be miserable” bit is worth a mention.
I’ve been saying all season that Mourinho is Mourinho, so why expect him to be anything other than a dour, grumpy twat? I’ve been trying really hard to let his press conference bollox slide and focus on the football. However, since our football has got increasingly grim it’s harder and harder to gloss over the rest of the package.
Why should we keep tolerating a manager who repeatedly behaves like a sullen, self-absorbed prick when there’s no compensatory enjoyment from watching his team?
Only reason why I'm not firmly in the "Jose out" camp is because there is a genuine lack of alternatives out there.
I truly believe he is unable to take us to the next level though, his mojo seems gone. He will keep us firmly in the top4 though, and sadly these days it seems that is all we can ask.
I truly believe he is unable to take us to the next level though, his mojo seems gone. He will keep us firmly in the top4 though, and sadly these days it seems that is all we can ask.
Yeah, Spurs do have an identity. I'd take Poch style of football over Mourinho every day of the week.
Literally every neutral (genuine or otherwise) will tell you how shite we are to watch. We are awful.
But to some on here, the very fact they are not United supporters must mean they are blinkered and clearly can't see the magic at hand.
The same people also completely disregard the amount of fecking money we've spent, to now look (more often than not) like a fecking Stoke side.
@Skills you were right in the other thread by saying people don't want us to become just another Madrid, cause winning CLs on the trot is too mainstream.
There is no denying, we're a horrible team when it comes down to aesthetics. Anyone at this point who thinks we play decent to good football is compeletely blinkered.
Ferguson always had outfield players who could contribute to 10/15 goals a season. Giggs, Beckham, Scholes,, Keane,.. Then he had match changers on the bench he could bring on, Soljskaer, Sheringham, etc. who also had a great goals tally. We don't have that anymore. In fact we don't even have balance in our side.
2 failed wingers, playing at full back. Centre forwards playing out wide. Then sometimes I think we have no midfielders when I see the huge space left there. There will just have to be big changes this summer.
2 failed wingers, playing at full back. Centre forwards playing out wide. Then sometimes I think we have no midfielders when I see the huge space left there. There will just have to be big changes this summer.
Why? Mourinho had better players available to him than De Bruyne, Salah and Lukaku in 2014-15. Why would Mourinho have given two fecks about them being world class (at least the first two) in 2017-18? I think people forget how long ago this was. We still had Van Persie, Di Maria and Falcao playing for us back then. Mou knew he was there for a few seasons tops and Abramovich would do the usual and sack him unless success was constant.
It's Chelsea the club and their Director of Football who is accountable for those sales. Any club who views their first team manager as a short term appointment and then allows the manager to have carte blanche over transfers is moronic.
Yeah I wouldn't mind it so much if he didn't continually throw our players under the bus etc, act like nothing is ever his fault, like he's doing this club a favour by being here. When you add all of that together, it's very easy to dislike him.
I voted for the first option and planning to keep it for one more season. If by next season we're out of title race by Christmas, i think board would sack him. Not sure how Mourinho is planning to turn it around, but either he delivers or walks.
We cant just keep him and wish for the best and wish to stay at top 4 while we need a new manager who takes us to the next level. I don't care who this other manager is, its not my job, its Ed Woodward's job and the director of football's job. This Mourinho version we've got is the worse version of him and we were stupid enough to renew his contract.
Maybe I'm wrong but even when he was being an unpleasant, horrible bollocks in his first stint at Chelsea there did seem to be a bit more of a glint in his eye and a cheekiness to him.
Since his time at Madrid even that has gone and all you get is the ugliness of his character, added to an increased sourness as he gets older. If the football was better than maybe that could be ignored (Ferguson was a miserable sod a lot of the time) but it's worrying given he called himself the Happy One a few years back and apparently has the job he wanted for years that he is so sour and bitter all the time, it doesn't really suggest that he even wants to be here for years to come.
I think if I wasn't a United fan that I would find this a very unlikable team. A club that has spent huge amounts of money (third most expensive squad ever and the highest average wage per player in football) led by such an unpleasant individual playing such a drab style of play
The sooner he (and a few of our players) are gone, the better. Watching us is a chore again. Our "style" of football is abysmal and to call it boring is being generous. Being 2nd doesn't justify such a shit on a stick brand of football. It's inexcusable to spend hundreds of millions of pounds and produce almost no excitement or entertainment. He's nothing more than LVG MKII
This list of players Mourinho "fully trusts" Makes me nauseous!
Bar Lukaku. The rest are 25+/ or over 30.
Bar Lukaku. The rest are 25+/ or over 30.
Fecking A.
Standard bloody response when you criticise Jose is "well we're in second, so..."
Yeah, anyone who has the capacity to read can see we're in second and have improved results wise, but the frustration comes from the fact that we've been fecking grim to watch over the majority of his tenure here. I'm not pissed off (and I'm assuming a lot of people think this way) because we're only in second or that we didn't win the title, i'm pissed off because there's no fecking joy there. I don't even know what we're trying to do as there's no discernible style of play for the most part. It's been functional/joyless football interspersed with the occasional high point.
And quite frankly, that's the bare fecking minimum he should be achieving.
This list of players Mourinho 'fully trusts' Makes me nauseous!
Bar Lukaku. The rest are 25+/ or closer to 30.
Aul Mata's came a long way! Must be washing Mourinho's clothes as well to be included in the circle of trust.
In all seriousness, if that was true we need to get rid. You can't just bin your entire squad bar 5 or 6 players.
No manager nowadays wants to be anywhere for years to come. Everything is short-term now.
Unless its' Wenger, who would probably want himself mummified and continue as Arsenal manager for another 50 years.
I'm sure some higher up at the club are worried. I mean. Mourinho wants Perisic, Matic and only trusts players 25+
In terms of business that's worrying for us. It means we would struggle to move players on, poor resale value and it means we would have replace players more frequently. Man City won the PL with Sane, Jesus and Sterling all under 24. Mourinho is taking us backwards.
How can he not see value in Shaw, Rashford and Martial. The way he treats Shaw has been horrible. Young/Valencia have not exactly been playing like Cafu/Roberto Carlos.
Unlike Pep I think Mourinho is too reactionary. It would have been easy for Pep to drop Sane/Sterling for their poor performances vs Liverpool but he stuck with them kept playing them. Mourinho will faff about with his XI every game. Trying to work out how he can stop Liverpool, Stop Man City rather than coaching his young attacking players to express themselves.
Martial and Rashford are young they will not be consistent every game. He should be willing to work with them. Not give up on them.
But then what is this talk of him being midway through rebuilding and undoing the mess he took over? I never really got that notion, he's always been a short term manager able to get results straight away regardless of the style of play but he and his biggest supporters have suggested that United would be different.
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