There are few better managers when it comes to a backs to the wall situation, but I wonder what it'll take for mou to slow the players a bit more freedom. Surely this season has provided him enough evidence to show what this team is capable of.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
- Status
If this was a lucky win, then many games which we didn’t win over the last 2 years should be unlucky too. I don’t see anyone calling us unlucky when we drew with Leicester, save a few
I did, and us playing a match like that in that season is a fragment of your imagination.
Great day, not so great season.
Every statement on this forum is questionable, obviously it's according to me, we are expressing individual opinions here aren't we. What history? Football history. To win titles, you play well and generally get rewarded for how you play through a season. Matches like that have been won before but not with any semblance of consistency. Do you know why City have strolled the title? cause they play like that most of the time. They are playing the second placed side and should be out of sight at half time despite not fielding their strongest side. Do you honestly believe that's the sort of match that'll have Pep losing sleep and fearing what United might come up with next season?
So what? we're a long way from the title, this title has been gone a long time ago. btw Rooney doesn't have to claim second rate trophies as being significant titles cause guess what? he made it a habit of collecting the silverware that's befitting of this club.
The opposing team missing easy chances is luck from our perspective - we are lucky that Sterling's finishing was poor because it was entirely out of our control at that point.
But so what? City have been sodding brilliant all season and are a better team than us. You cannot win at their place without some luck. And it was a brilliant, exciting comeback which we deserve credit for. I would have been happy even if they had found an equaliser in the end because that second half was fantastic fun.
You know, I took an issue with fans in here criticizing Mourinho when things go wrong, or his style of play or whatever they will fecking invent to make their point valid in their own twisted little minds, but, after checking the bluemoon forum, I was shocked with fans having a go at Pep, the Messiah of football, the most charismatic manager in the world, the innovator....blah blah blah!!
Fickle plastic xbox fans everywhere....
Fickle plastic xbox fans everywhere....
Didn't want to start a new thread just for some basic exploration and it was done to judge Mourinho's work so it's probably best here.
I was curious what the simple numbers looked like for the league performance shown within the 'big six' since Ferguson left the scene, to put in context the job Mourinho has - no matter what some of us may feel about his methods.
Three metrics are simply win%, win-draw% (unbeaten) and loss% in the league. Red is a step back from the previous season, green an improvement, amber is static. Added in the measures for this season so far as we draw towards the conclusion. Also included money spent (take that with a pinch of salt but I took it from the same sources for all teams) and trophies won since 2013.
I'll edit this later with more thought but generally, you can see the low level (even after his first season), Mourinho had to work with. Averaging only 19 wins a season (22 already this year) and 6 losses a season before this campaign. Although funny that Mourinho had the worst win% since Ferguson retired.
Also noticeable while we're the worst side in terms of average league performance, we're obviously not the only side struggling to maintain things from season to season if you look along the line. Also obvious what people mean by 'stability' with Wenger, given for four seasons straight they had the exact same % of losses in the league, simply swapping draws for wins (and vice-versa).
I think if we stay unbeaten and win at least 4 of our remaining games - that's 87% unbeaten and a 68% wins. Getting back up there with Ferguson's level before he departed.
I was curious what the simple numbers looked like for the league performance shown within the 'big six' since Ferguson left the scene, to put in context the job Mourinho has - no matter what some of us may feel about his methods.
Three metrics are simply win%, win-draw% (unbeaten) and loss% in the league. Red is a step back from the previous season, green an improvement, amber is static. Added in the measures for this season so far as we draw towards the conclusion. Also included money spent (take that with a pinch of salt but I took it from the same sources for all teams) and trophies won since 2013.
I'll edit this later with more thought but generally, you can see the low level (even after his first season), Mourinho had to work with. Averaging only 19 wins a season (22 already this year) and 6 losses a season before this campaign. Although funny that Mourinho had the worst win% since Ferguson retired.
Also noticeable while we're the worst side in terms of average league performance, we're obviously not the only side struggling to maintain things from season to season if you look along the line. Also obvious what people mean by 'stability' with Wenger, given for four seasons straight they had the exact same % of losses in the league, simply swapping draws for wins (and vice-versa).
I think if we stay unbeaten and win at least 4 of our remaining games - that's 87% unbeaten and a 68% wins. Getting back up there with Ferguson's level before he departed.
This is so true.
Didn't want to start a new thread just for some basic exploration and it was done to judge Mourinho's work so it's probably best here.
I was curious what the simple numbers looked like for the league performance shown within the 'big six' since Ferguson left the scene, to put in context the job Mourinho has - no matter what some of us may feel about his methods.
Three metrics are simply win%, win-draw% (unbeaten) and loss% in the league. Red is a step back from the previous season, green an improvement, amber is static. Added in the measures for this season so far as we draw towards the conclusion. Also included money spent (take that with a pinch of salt but I took it from the same sources for all teams) and trophies won since 2013.
I'll edit this later with more thought but generally, you can see the low level (even after his first season), Mourinho had to work with. Averaging only 19 wins a season (22 already this year) and 6 losses a season before this campaign. Although funny that Mourinho had the worst win% since Ferguson retired.
Also noticeable while we're the worst side in terms of average league performance, we're obviously not the only side struggling to maintain things from season to season if you look along the line. Also obvious what people mean by 'stability' with Wenger, given for four seasons straight they had the exact same % of losses in the league, simply swapping draws for wins (and vice-versa).
I think if we stay unbeaten and win at least 4 of our remaining games - that's 87% unbeaten and a 68% wins. Getting back up there with Ferguson's level before he departed.
Win every game and, at 89 points, I think we'd better half of our PL winning campaigns.
I have been given Jose has much stick has anyone, the cherry on the cake was those team sellections against Sevilla, but luck is the hallmark of the great united sides which we had first half. Jose never parked the bus, and half time probably made him think this is why I park the bus. Now that half time team talk was the most important and monumental moment not only the clubs history, but Jose mourinho’s United career. But he showed us all that not only can he still inspire at the height of the biggest game of the season, but it showed us all this team has that ability to beat and hurt teams. The midfield we all have wanted matic Herrera and pogba is what Jose needs to use has the season comes to a close, pogba stepped up and this was like a resurrection of the old United rising from the ashes. There is hope for next season to give Jose Mourinho the tools to improve the defence and the engine room, this team can fight and beat anyone, which will help us attract better players when we show this kind of character And bottle when we all think hope is lost
We've had a thread by Toad illustrating some interesting stats, not least our form in 2018. Another thread by Pogue going to show we've beaten all the teams in the Prem this season. We've got a points tally similar to SAF teams and Jose is well and truly steadying this ship. It's just a shame that he feels (probably rightly, given the media) that he needs to argue his case by pointing this all out to people.
Yesterday's 2nd half response was as good as any response I've seen from a United team.
Yesterday's 2nd half response was as good as any response I've seen from a United team.
One thing I think he deserves credit for is that he's building a team that will outlive his tenure as manager. I still don't think he'll be with us long-term, but you can see a spine developing within our squad, a core of players that love the club and will be regulars for years to come. Wins like yesterday's build team spirit, and I think Mourinho has done a great job facilitating that.
I can't believe there is even a debate about this, I really really can't. Not only that, based on that poll, HALF of our fans don't think Jose is taking us forwards!
Seriously, what does Jose have to do? Would it have taken a title-win or Champions League win this season for fans to give him any credit? I think most level-headed people knew that was going to be a big ask, so what else could we hope for than 2nd - and what's looking like being a comfortable second at that.
Seriously, what does Jose have to do? Would it have taken a title-win or Champions League win this season for fans to give him any credit? I think most level-headed people knew that was going to be a big ask, so what else could we hope for than 2nd - and what's looking like being a comfortable second at that.
Not really. The options in the poll aren't that good.
Mourinho said in the post-match that 6 points is the target to secure top 4. He said that it was 'compulsory' as a target.
So, he agrees with the 2nd option. It's probably in his contract that not getting top 4 is a sack-able offence.
I would vote for both option 1 and 2 if I could, he is taking us forward and is the right man for the job, but there are limits to that. Missing out on CL football is unacceptable with the quality of players we have.
Don’t see why I would change my vote from the second option. We had stagnated when it was put up and we won’t miss out on top four so there’s no problem.
Well not really, because the poll doesn't just refer to top four does it, it specifically says 'we have stagnated'. If you select Opt. 2, you're saying you believe we have stagnated
If we keep 'stagnating' at the rate we are (6th into 2nd), I'd say I'd be pretty happy with that! :-)
Technically we have stagnated since we've been the second best team in the league for most of the season
I don't think this team can go up a level without some new signings. We're already at a title winning level (80+ points most likely), in order to be one of the best teams in the world, we'll have to improve the quality and depth of the team. So I think we have stagnated, but that doesn't mean we can't become better.
Technically we have stagnated since we've been the second best team in the league for most of the season
I don't think this team can go up a level without some new signings. We're already at a title winning level (80+ points most likely), in order to be one of the best teams in the world, we'll have to improve the quality and depth of the team. So I think we have stagnated, but that doesn't mean we can't become better.
Signings may help. Improving the consistency will help.
But City (or whoever leads the pack next season) will not be as dominant next season. Or at least you'd like to believe going by history of the league.
I don’t think it’s just about him taking us forward. League position has improved drastically and unless there is a meltdown it looks like 2nd is ours.
Most people’s problem is how it’s been done, it’s just soulless. The league wins over Liverpool and Chelsea Just felt flat and personally I don’t think him winning the league or a champions league would change my feeling on that. Was the same with the Europa, yesterday is really the first time there has been any spark that this team could really do something and that was only in the 2nd half. They need to replicate that 2nd half over 90 minutes a couple of times before you’ll see a major shift in people’s thinking.
Personally I don’t think he is the right man for this club win or lose. Just to clarify it’s not just about playing entertaining football.
I think VERY few people would have a problem with a «soulless» CL or PL win
That said, we’re never going to agree on this subject, so yeah.
To be fair I have had my grouse with his approach to games sometimes but I love the man so my opinion will somehow be biased in his favor.
It hasn't always been plain sailing this season with results and performance, and I do understand the moaning sometimes, but how can fans genuinely not enjoy a win against city because we were 'lucky'
-- And so what? Aren't we allowed to be lucky too? Moreso, haven't city themselves been lucky with the number of late goals they've scored?.
He's doing a good job, can definitely do better - most managers can - but he's the one manager I believe knows, and has what he takes to manage this football club. Knowing the kind of man Jose is, he will give his absolute best to take us back to the top again, his ego won't allow him not to, we (fans and the board) just have to support him and the team.
It hasn't always been plain sailing this season with results and performance, and I do understand the moaning sometimes, but how can fans genuinely not enjoy a win against city because we were 'lucky'
-- And so what? Aren't we allowed to be lucky too? Moreso, haven't city themselves been lucky with the number of late goals they've scored?.
He's doing a good job, can definitely do better - most managers can - but he's the one manager I believe knows, and has what he takes to manage this football club. Knowing the kind of man Jose is, he will give his absolute best to take us back to the top again, his ego won't allow him not to, we (fans and the board) just have to support him and the team.
That's fair enough, but it would have been a HUGE gamble bringing in someone like a Pochettino (or similar) post-LvG. Jose has done a really good job of arresting the decline. This is the first time in years that we have comfortably made top four and beaten all of our top 4/5 rivals. We may also yet still win a major trophy.
That's why I think the poll is premature. If we still haven't won a league title in two/three seasons, then you might argue a new man is needed to take us up another level again
Yeah that’s fair enough. If Jose hadn’t been sacked by Chelsea then possibility he isn’t here right now. I just think him being available sort of forced the clubs hand as really LVG missed top 4 on goal difference and won “that major trophy” I don’t even think I’d class anything as haulting a decline, the only decline was Moyes, and personally that LVG team slowly looked like it was just starting to take shape but it needed more investment. Which is something Jose did. Obviously everyone has their own opinions on what was,is,wasn’t happening but I think the supposed “rescue job” Jose has done is a bit overstated. Anyway that’s a totally different point.
For sure would have been a gamble to appoint anyone and Jose has that big name even getting fired from his last job for being in relegation form. I don’t think the poll is premature at all because people had made up their minds last year he wasn’t the man, a lot of this year also just as much as people think he is the right guy. Now he’s had 2 years at it, I think it’s fair to make judgments on the content we’ve seen.
I’m in the camp of I would prefer if he wasn’t our manager but realisticly there isn’t anyone we could get really at the end of this season where i’d be like kick him out right now. So willing to give him another year but surely next year he has to either win playing as he does, or be within touching distance of one of the big 2.
However saying this if the team played consistently like they played in the 2nd half yesterday, pushing forward breaking lines and playing between them if we finished in the same position as this year then to me that would be a massive improvement, however if we were able to replicate that consistently then we’d be much closer to City currently and probably still be in the CL being talked about as ones to watch.
He played away against the runaway leaders with two over-30, right-footed, converted wingers as fullbacks. And won. Not bad for a so-called defensive coach.
The poll was fexking ridiculous from the start so it was always difficult to have a proper opinion which was....
He’s done well, should possibly be doing better and should play more expansive football at times. That said, he’s doing a miles better job than the past two managers and quite clearly has to stay.
I’m very happy with our progress. We are disjointed in attack at points and sometimes lack cohesion, but we’ve shown enough(and increasingly consistently) to strongly suggest we’re well on the way to being a seriously good team. Couple of years from now, maintaining this trajectory, and we’ll be a force to be reckoned with. Even this season, we’re in a position that’d normally be there or thereabouts if it wasn’t for City’s exceptional run of form.
I think it's half that and half, setting himself the team an identity/playing style.
Our lack of pressing is shocking. Pressing requires organisation and condensing of the pitch in areas where all our players can excel. The game is all about creating these transitions for the creative players to exploit. The problem is we don't set up to make those situations happen.
I wish those doubters will give their 2 cents now. About how we are ugly, no results, boring. We just beat all the Top 6 this season, and lest this be swept under the carpet - beat City at The Etihad. City, who almost went the season unbeaten. City, whom the press were brown-nosing all season. City, who just spent the better part of a country's GDP on full backs and defenders. We want to hear from the doubters. Where are you now?
Last edited by a moderator:
https://www.lateralesquerdo.com/2018/04/09/o-dedo-de-mourinho/
From a portuguese blog, if it isn't possible to translate on another day I can try to explain some things there.
From a portuguese blog, if it isn't possible to translate on another day I can try to explain some things there.
So I’ll hold my hand up and say that I’ve called for Jose to be gone and I’ve given him shit on this forum. But that second half against City shows how much the players are on his side and respond to him. So yea I think I’m good with him staying on now. He’s created the siege mentality.
The media may not recognise Mourinho's ability to ring a tune from his players but his fellow coaches do.
No matter how many players we bring in, I think we will see matches like Sevilla under Jose. Also I struggle to see us going deep in CL. Against a side that passes well, we tend to fall flat.
Performances like Sevilla will ultimately attract lots of criticism and pressure. I feel he will be gone this time next season. If Liverpool happen to win CL , it will make matters even worse.
Performances like Sevilla will ultimately attract lots of criticism and pressure. I feel he will be gone this time next season. If Liverpool happen to win CL , it will make matters even worse.
I actually don’t really care about the CL at this point. If we do well, great. I obviously expect us to move past the group stages and at least the first knock out but I badly want us to win the league first and foremost.
The league title will be my first pick too. I am not expecting us to win the CL. In fact, after the CL reformat, its very likely that we face one of european heavyweights in the first knock out stage itself and get knocket out quite easily, considering they have quite bigger "heritage" than us.
I am just giving an example of a game like Sevilla where we do not perform anywhere near expected, and hugely disappoint in terms of tactics and motivation. That will ultimately drive the crowd and media to pile pressure on Jose, and I think that will be the end of him here. And remember we are going into Jose's dreaded third season.
I'm sorry but this is nonsense. He's one of the two best (successful?) managers still in the game. The pressure he puts on himself is probably far greater than anything the media etc. could manage. He wouldn't have gotten this far in his career without it.
Secondly he's manager of Manchester United. There will be pressure on him regardless of the circumstances. He could be undefeated all season and thered be pressure on him to maintain it, that just comes with the environment of managing a club like this.
One off games like Sevilla happen to all managers. Has happened to Pep with Wigan, happened to SAF countless times too. Take your mind back to the Basel CL dillema.
The pressure that comes with being the manager of United is quite different from the pressure that comes from defeat against Sevilla. Dont you think?
Pep's Wigan defeat is not the same as Jose's Sevilla, nowhere near. United went through a lot to make it into CL knock outs, only to be knocked out at the very first knock out game by a team that has far too less resources than us.
Jose tend to find it difficult to maintain relationship with players and fans when pressurised as tend to point finger at player, dismiss fans, unnecessarily drawn towards pundit's criticism when he could handle such situation much better. Its not without a reason that Jose tend to fall out with his players. I think he will end up falling out with the players here and then leave sometime next season.
How is the Wigan game any different? If anything it's worse. City did a lot to get to that stage of the competition, only to get knocked out by a team that's not even in the same division as them. Sevilla are far better, they've drawn with Barcelona, in the Spanish cup final, beaten Atleti, beaten Liverpool and gave Bayern a very good challenge. This notion on here that they're a free win is such nonsense, they're a threat to any team in cup competitions. Bar one extremely lucky deflected goal for Bayern, they could have been on thin ice against Sevilla.
Also the teams he's fell out with are notorious for that activity. While you can use those stints to beat him with, you can also reverse it and say he did well to stay as long at those clubs as he did. As IIRC he's stayed the longest out of their recent managers. Whether or not he falls out with players here I don't give a shit about, player power isn't an issue here, the board will decide when it's time for the manager to go. Currently though, if the City game is anything to go by, the players are still completely behind him.
And if he doesn’t fall out with all and sundry, as you are so adamantly predicting, would you hold your hand up and say you were utterly wrong?
Or would it be more of the same throw shit at the wall and hope something sticks? My money’s on the latter.
Sevilla are good team, but away from their home, they are really poor. Your excuse of bar one deflected goal ..blah ..blah does not mean anything. The fact is Bayern beat them, and Sevilla beat us quite easily in our own backyard. thats the fact, whether u like it or not, whether you accept it or not. Its surprising how you cherry picked few Sevilla's matches to show they are good completely ignoring that they are 7th in la liga.
Loss against Celta Vigo 4-0 ; Eibar 5-1 Sevilla, Sevilla 2 - 5 Atletico, Sevilla 3 - 5 Real Betis. Can you explain any of these?!
City's Wigan is different from our Sevilla loss. Wigan loss was in FA cup which is one match, our Sevilla loss was Champions league match and 2 legged. If you feel FA cup and CL is same, then i have nothing to say to you.
Regarding us being the club where player power is not issue, things change quite quickly, especially when it involves star/expensive players. People were saying we are not sacking club and in 3 years, we sacked 2. If some 2 players like, lets say Pogba and De Gea turn into him , I think Board will side with players, and kick him out.
And if he indeed falls out with players like he always does, will you hold your hand up?
At United, he is just having it easier because we do not have many commanding senior player like Ramos who can go head to head against Jose.
Because they are a cup team. They had not a lot to play for in the league but cared more about CL quite simple.
Real Madrid by the same logic was defeated by a lot of teams like Girona and all. Yet they thrashed the likes of PSG and Juve. Why? Because they had/have nothing to play for in the league. Whereas CL is different.
If you need explaining why teams who struggle in the league can be better in the cups, then I have nothing to say to you.
- Status