Because our board have no long term plan. They panicked and just got the manager who was available. You could ask why we have appointed three cowardly managers in a row. The scatter gun approach to hiring managers and buying players since SAF retired has destroyed the club.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
- Thread starter Suedesi
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What did you expect when you appointed Mourinho
I agree - Moyes was out of his depth whereas LVG / Jose are excellent managers who are past their best - I think in both cases their ideas and philosophies (lol) about football had become a little outdated by the time we got them
Van Gaal 15/16:
Scored 0 goals in a game: 12
Scored 4 goals in a game: 1
Scored 5 goals in a game: 1
Jose 17/18:
Scored 0 goals in a game: 7
Scored 4 goals in a game: 9
Scored 5 goals in a game: 0
*Stats from all comps
We've not finished this season yet. Van Gaal finished the 15/16 season on 49 goals in the PL, we've scored 58 this season so far with 8 games left. Van Gaal football that season was terrible, terrible football.
This.
It smacks of over-complicating and smartarsery from Mourinho. Instead of just playing all his attacking cards and going for it, he tries an elaborate, defensively minded gameplan to justify himself as a manager, and it blows up in his face more often than it brings success.
I'm no more of an expert on Mourinho than anyone else on here but it seems he's become obsessed with the defensive side of the game. Maybe that 0-1 he got at the Camp Nou in 2010 has convinced him he's tactically infallible; maybe the 0-5 he suffered at the same stadium with Real Madrid has scarred him; maybe he simply doesn't have an answer for the pressing game most teams play these days. Whatever the reason, he's not the same manager he was at the start of his career.
As you say mate, he produced a brilliant (if essentially negative) tactical masterclass against Liverpool in the first half on Saturday and took a grip on the game. So what did he do? He abandoned all pretense of attack and just parked the bus. Result? We nearly squandered the win.
It was the same against Celta last season. We had the tie won with an excellent first-leg display, and once again we retreated into our shells and nearly got knocked out. Last night was our comeuppance.
In a weird way, City's dominance might be good for us. Mourinho has been forced into an adapt or die situation, and let's hope he chooses the first option.
Points wise we are good this season in the league so no complaints here. However our approach to most games is just wrong. Doesn't matter who we play, it seems that we train only to stop opposition from scoring and then try to score somehow ourselves relying on individual quality of the players. We are Manchester United FFS, biggest club in the world according to some, why do we try to nullify opposition instead of playing our game? Why are we happy with 0-0 against Sevilla? How the feck a player like Fellaini gets into our team? I am not saying be like Wenger and play same way against every single team, I understand there are times when you need to shut the shop and hang onto the lead but we seem to do it from the first minute regularly?
Watching us attacking is just painful, we never commit players forward because they have too much defensive responsibilities. I know our squad is far from perfect, I know some players clearly lack intelligence and footballing brain but this is just not good enough. The moment against Liverpool when on 2nd minute of the game Sanchez wasn't sure whether we press them or sit back sums it up for me.
Watching us attacking is just painful, we never commit players forward because they have too much defensive responsibilities. I know our squad is far from perfect, I know some players clearly lack intelligence and footballing brain but this is just not good enough. The moment against Liverpool when on 2nd minute of the game Sanchez wasn't sure whether we press them or sit back sums it up for me.
I don't like the way we play football and I don't like what he is doing to our team and club to be honest. He is not a United manager. I thought he would change given all the money to spend, But I now see he will never change the way of playing. Too conservative and defensive minded.
At the time it felt like to me like a panic appointment because City had snapped up Guardiola. Mourinho was the only guy around who had a similar status i.e. global fame. Seemed very backward looking and defensive rather than trying to look to the future.
In fairness I think that the Woodward regime was burnt very badly by the club taking a (stupid) risk on Moyes and has looked to two very experienced old sets of hands since then. From their perspective it does offer a certain safety net - if a relative unknown had us playing shit in a stick football like this the board would be pilloried for a ridiculous appointment. Giving the job to someone like Mourinho affords them a certain amount of cover.
Just changed my vote from option 2 to option 3.
Thing is, the negative football doesn't actually work.
Since 2010 Mourinho's won two league titles and not reached a single CL final. That's poor when you consider he's been in charge of RM, Chelsea and United during that period. Barca were in turmoil the year Mou left and he's had a relatively weak Premier League field until this season.
His success is heavily concentrated in the first half of his career, when he was more adventurous and actually went out to attack teams (his Chelsea sides gave us a couple of real pastings when he started out).
The good thing is we're now at a turning point. City have blown us away in the league, we're out of the CL and the fans (and, no doubt, the sponsors) are getting restless. Mou may have renewed his contract but if the crowds start dropping and the sponsors start defecting to City, the board will have to act.
I hope Mou takes a long look in the mirror, realises his defensive obsession is no longer tenable and actually comes up with a proper game plan. There aren't many alternatives out there and he still has real qualities as a defensive organiser.
Let's hope this is a turning point!
Since 2010 Mourinho's won two league titles and not reached a single CL final. That's poor when you consider he's been in charge of RM, Chelsea and United during that period. Barca were in turmoil the year Mou left and he's had a relatively weak Premier League field until this season.
His success is heavily concentrated in the first half of his career, when he was more adventurous and actually went out to attack teams (his Chelsea sides gave us a couple of real pastings when he started out).
The good thing is we're now at a turning point. City have blown us away in the league, we're out of the CL and the fans (and, no doubt, the sponsors) are getting restless. Mou may have renewed his contract but if the crowds start dropping and the sponsors start defecting to City, the board will have to act.
I hope Mou takes a long look in the mirror, realises his defensive obsession is no longer tenable and actually comes up with a proper game plan. There aren't many alternatives out there and he still has real qualities as a defensive organiser.
Let's hope this is a turning point!
Massive change in the poll though. From 75 before the game to 235 now. See it on Twitter as well, definitely been a big shift in fans’ opinion of Mourinho.
Could be the beginning of the end for him.
Honestly, I kind of agree. Though I would probably describe Mourinho as some kind of weird nihilist. For example, I don't think it's much about recreating that intense display at Barcelona at all. Even Mourinho himself always asks why people don't talk about the other match in that leg, where Inter beat Barca 3-1 at home with passionate and much more positive football. The only reason they defended like mad men at the Nou Camp in that second leg was because of the play acting by Busquets that got Motta sent off. With 11 vs 11 and a 3-1 victory at home, the correct strategy would obviously be to score an away goal and before completely parking the bus.
The underlying sentiment of what you're saying is correct in my opinion though. Guardiola is obsessed with ball posession, so Mourinho wants to show he can be more succesful while having a complete disregard for ball posession (and so far he's actually won more trohies than Guardiola, so in his mind he is probably right).
Same with Klopp and his obsession with players running 14 kilometers per match and Gegenpressing. Under Mourinho we pretty much run the least miles of any team, but we're still infinitely more succesful than Liverpool (so again, in Mourinho's mind he's probably right).
Like I said, his core philosophy is pretty much nihilism, make everything as minimalistic as possible. In a weird way it's actually kind of impressive, if you consider that probably still has the best statistics of any so called top manager, other than maybe Guardiola.
No, you're just a bitter twat trying to claim some weird moral victory on an internet forum at the most oppertunistic moment possible. I love how you ended your post with the "I'M ABSOLUTELY PROVEN RIGHT" though. Donald Trump would probably agree with you in this case.
Realistically we've recently had a very good match against Liverpool where we showed they are not on our level. We recently beat Chelsea, and might finish in 2nd place looking like a half decent team for the first time since Ferguson retired.
Objectively Mourinho's transfer business has been excellent too compared to the idiots we had in charge before, just like his transfer business has always been excellent at other clubs. I'm sure you remember when your brilliant board and Van Gaal decided to let Lucio go, and he became a vital part of that Mourinho side which left you completely without a chance in the Champions League Final where you had to play fecking Daniel van Buyten as a centre back. Not bad for some tactical dinosaur.
Ultimately our play has been too shite at crucial moments though, so maybe that part of your prediction was correct. But with Mourinho so far, there have clearly been much more positives than negatives...
I'm ashamed to support the same club as you and many others in this thread.
The funny thing is that your idol Pochettino that you cream for in every other thread can manage another 30 years and he wont achieve what Jose has so far.
You can hate Jose all you want but even if leaves in the summer he already has a place in Man utd history.
Oh calm down would you.
And place in Man Utd history? Sure, but not a positive one.
FFS. Place in Man Utd history? For what? The most insipid European performance in our history?
You should go celebrate your achievement.
Yeah, I checked before the game, his outright support was close to 60% if I recall. I think one of two things will happen. We'll become more fluid in attack and get with it, or continue this way and he'll last at maximum another season. My hunch is the former, but I guess I'm in a fast shrinking group.
Salah, De Bruyne and even Lukaku. Mourinho has precedence of shunning talent at his disposal to make room for those who better fit his tumescent approach. I don't want us being the rich man's Stoke if all we hope to show for it are some pointless, peripheral trophies. Id much rather we play entertaining football while building on a competitive foundation then grinding out hollow second tier trophies.
Also I disagree with Mourinho being the best chance we have in bridging the gap between us and City. For starters he's not one to ever admit his approach is wrong and his response to any setback is to simply double down. So even if we were to throw money at our problems again this summer it'll all be for nothing.
We like to laugh at Poch's record of winning absolutely nothing but do you think he would have set us up the way we were yesterday night? Would he feck.
Changed my vote from option 2 to option 3.
Yesterday was the final straw for me.
Yesterday was the final straw for me.
First manager in our history to win not one but two trophies in his first season. Third manager behind Sir Matt, SAF to win a european cup trophy for this club.
Nobody can erase that.
I know it kills you that someone you absolutely hate won something for this club. I hope he wins the FA cup and then leaves.
If we did sack him, Allegri would be the one to bring in as they share similar ideas fundamentally so we wouldn't have to endure those cringy terms 'rebuild' and 'process' for another two seasons. Personally, I'd be intrigued by Tuchel or Sarri but can you imagine trying to get Smalling and Fellaini to play their kind of football? In general though, there needs to be another culling of the deadwood in the squad- Blind, Darmian, Fellaini etc- so there may need to be another *eurgh* 'rebuild' anyway. Do you trust Mourinho with 250mill?
So do I mate!
And I don’t care about the League cup and the EL. This is Manchester United, not West Ham.
He's officially become a dinosaur. Living off his past glories. I hope Ed and the board are watching things closely. He is publicly mocking the club with the comments he made after the game. It's alarming to hear for anyone connected with the club. I feel like he gave up completely on the CL last night. It was just a strange night right from the beginning with the lack of urgency throughout the game. We are 0-0 halfway through the 2nd and he's standing there laughing with Mr Montella on the sidelines. What is seriously going on here? Lukaku comes out after the game and says players were hiding. You would never feel this was a decisive CL knockout game.
Those numbers really don't say an awful lot. Certainly not what you think they're saying. Van Gaal had 12 matches all season when we failed to score, Jose currently has 7 (with 8 matches to go). Hardly a discussion point. I don't judge managers by the amount of times they scored an arbitrary amount either (4 goals in a game or whatever). So if a team scores no more than 2 goals a game (never hits 4 or 5 all season) but wins the league that's a problem?
Also you do realise 6 of those 9 matches (when we scored 4) happened in August and September right? We're a long way from there now.
Let's also just forget Van Gaal stupidly went into that season with only Rooney as a recognised striker (later pulling Rashford into the mix and indecisive with Martial). Mourinho has spent money on one of the best strikers in the league, a much better midfield (on paper anyway) and has now added Sanchez who up until he joined us was regarded as one of the best players in the league. So sorry but not really seeing what's so ground-breaking about Mourinho's work at all.
Again I'll repeat it: Van Gaal didn't destroy anything, he just failed to take us forward through his own stubborness and stupidity during his reign. Mourinho has done pretty much the least we expected of him and barely anything more.
Through everything in the past two seasons my belief in Mourinho and the team has been relentless. Not one time did I doubt him - he always found a way. I know he’s taking the team in a better direction than any other potential manager out there (except Guardiola). However, last nights game for the first time ever really shook me. He was arrogant beyond belief. He was riding the high of outclassing chelsea and Liverpool and forgot to humble himself for last nights game. He took a very calculated approach to the Sevilla game based on pure arrogance.
Now this has not swayed me away from him because with all Mourinhos success you must accept this side of him. I just didn’t expect him to not stay humble. Disappointed.
Now this has not swayed me away from him because with all Mourinhos success you must accept this side of him. I just didn’t expect him to not stay humble. Disappointed.
I don' think he or Rui Faria know how to do the former.
He needs to update his coaches and make Faria his Brian Kidd, but I suspect he's too "loyal" for that.
You were not alone .. Many were sceptical to say the least .. But most of us wanted result first , style second.. But when he isnt delivering his style becomes a problem that for many of us was the reason for not getting him in the first place..
I for one wanted him to do well but have never liked him as a manager, that performance yesterday was the final straw for me you cannot serve this shit up period..
1. He's going nowhere. Five more wins, Twelve more goals and eight more points than this time last year is legitimate progress.
2. We have a fantastic chance for a top two finish and a trophy. Do I want to finish second to City? No. Do I want to win the FA Cup and use it as a Springboard for winning the league next year? Yes.
Finally last night wasn't great but its not the first time it happened and it won't be the last. It's on to Brighton and then Wembley.
2. We have a fantastic chance for a top two finish and a trophy. Do I want to finish second to City? No. Do I want to win the FA Cup and use it as a Springboard for winning the league next year? Yes.
Finally last night wasn't great but its not the first time it happened and it won't be the last. It's on to Brighton and then Wembley.
Another change from 2 to 3 Yesterday's match and his press conference was the final straw for me, is it too much to ask for to play attacking football? Tuchel would be my choice.
Lost my confidence in him last night. At least Spurs went down swinging. Showing some fight and having a real go. We went out with a whimper.
Wondering if the game has moved on and left him behind? If we spends another £300m will we still be setting up against any half decent sides worrying how they can hurt us instead of trying to hurt them?
That can be ok when we win and look set to win big trophies. but when you don't win playing this way the fall out with fans is massive. I can take the way we played vs Liverpool at home because they're a dangerous side and it felt like Jose out-foxed Klopp first half. But teams like Sevilla? Unforgivable. Liverpool away when they were there for the taking? Gutting.
Now wondering longer term, do we stick with him, hoping he can eventually build a team that is so strong, we win the league in pragmatic style like his Chelsea 2015 side did? Unloved by other fans & the wider football community, but who gives a shit if we get number 21?
Or do we gamble and bring in a young, progressive manager who belives in attacking football above anything else, who could get us playing like City or Liverpool? Which could lead to a title win in stlye, considering our resources, but might as easily end up short?
Another big worry for Woodward will now surely be, what if he has his 3rd season meltdown? Because being in the CL every season if probably what Woodward and Co care about the most but if things go tits up next season, Jose style, we won't be in Europe the following year. This might well be over the top but last night was a kick in the nuts.
Wondering if the game has moved on and left him behind? If we spends another £300m will we still be setting up against any half decent sides worrying how they can hurt us instead of trying to hurt them?
That can be ok when we win and look set to win big trophies. but when you don't win playing this way the fall out with fans is massive. I can take the way we played vs Liverpool at home because they're a dangerous side and it felt like Jose out-foxed Klopp first half. But teams like Sevilla? Unforgivable. Liverpool away when they were there for the taking? Gutting.
Now wondering longer term, do we stick with him, hoping he can eventually build a team that is so strong, we win the league in pragmatic style like his Chelsea 2015 side did? Unloved by other fans & the wider football community, but who gives a shit if we get number 21?
Or do we gamble and bring in a young, progressive manager who belives in attacking football above anything else, who could get us playing like City or Liverpool? Which could lead to a title win in stlye, considering our resources, but might as easily end up short?
Another big worry for Woodward will now surely be, what if he has his 3rd season meltdown? Because being in the CL every season if probably what Woodward and Co care about the most but if things go tits up next season, Jose style, we won't be in Europe the following year. This might well be over the top but last night was a kick in the nuts.
This is from Roberto Palomar in Marca apparently. I know that they are not exactly unbiased but it did make me chuckle.
“It’s an unattractive, fearful team, rich in resources but lamentable in its play,” he added. “Mourinho is starting to look like a washed-up rock star, one of those guys that goes around holiday hotels for pensioners playing old hits on an organ with the base and the percussion playing on a tape recorder.”
“It’s an unattractive, fearful team, rich in resources but lamentable in its play,” he added. “Mourinho is starting to look like a washed-up rock star, one of those guys that goes around holiday hotels for pensioners playing old hits on an organ with the base and the percussion playing on a tape recorder.”
Well said.
You mean like his third season at Chelsea where he won a cup double? His third season at Inter when he won the treble? Or the near 90 points he scored at Real?
That was his second season. He got 85 points in his third at Real, but won nothing, lost the players and got the sack. He was sacked months after the cup double at Chelsea.
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Yeah the third season thing is a myth, a flawed stat made meaningless by the fact that Mou's never stayed very long anywhere.
But that's the point, isn't it. That, when Mourinho has an elite team, sooner or later the player turn against him and he walks. It happened at RM, it happened at Chelsea... how long until it happens here?
Will keep him for another season, so let’s just suck it up and see how it goes next season.
On paper all his singing but given the performance levels of Pogba, Sanchez and Mkhitarian (3 of his main 4 attacking signings), even his work in the transfer market isnt as great as it sounds.
It goes back to what I said earlier. He buys well but his coaching/tactics are questionable.
Of course he wouldnt. But that doesnt mean he would win the tournament. You already acknowledged the issue without providing a satisfactory answer to it: Poch has won nothing. And the current Spurs side are very good. Man for man as good as United and maybe even better. But they are also out of the CL and behind us in the league.
Im not saying I wouldnt take a risk on Poch, to be honest I probably would. There is a risk but its on the upside as well as the downside. And he plays nice football. The real issue with him isnt whether we would take him but whether he is interested in coming to us. Im not at all sure he is. While he is keeping this Spurs team together I imagine him being happy there for now, as he has plenty of time to move on to bigger things. And we are hardly the only big club sniffing around him at the moment, I can imagine one of the big Spanish clubs coming in for him in due course and I imagine that may appeal to him more.
So yeah, if Woodward has sounded out his agent and he is interested in coming to us this summer, fine, Im on board with that. Similarly, if Woodward has some other ace up his sleeve, some exciting young manager, maybe a bit unproven at the highest level but with the necessary gravitas to manage this club and this squad of players, and the attacking style we want to see, and real hunger to prove himself, then OK, Im down with that as well. Its a risk, but the way I feel right now I am ready to embrace that. I am feeling just pissed off enough to be willing to countenance getting rid of a manager that is (and has a very good chance of finishing) second in the league, who may well have won the league in a different season, were City not raising the bar, and who may yet win us the FA Cup. There is part of me that finds that pretty bloody stupid, but another part of me that maybe is pretty bloody stupid, but understands the appeal of it.
What I dont think is a very good idea is getting rid of Mourinho on a prayer, and then looking around and wondering what the hell we do now. I certainly am not ready to put all my chips on some completely unknown quantity like Giggs. It has to be someone we have a reason to take a chance on. He has to look like the hypothetical manager I mentioned above. Gravitas is my biggest concern, really. I look at the club and the players we have and I worry that not that many managers are up to the job. There are young, hungry, up and coming managers I think could do very well elsewhere, who wont be able to manage us without more experience, because of the profile of player we have. These (and I dont mean this to sound emotive or like I am attacking our players, because I think this entire generation of footballers are like this at the top level) spoilt young superstars, who have been millionaires since they were teenagers and who think they are god's gift to football, who have "made it" before they have even been promoted to the first team. I think it is hard for a manager that doesnt have a track record of winning to inspire respect from the modern day footballer, especially those who are good enough to play for United. That is what Mourinho has and that is what I worry another manager might lack. I think Poch has earned enough respect for what he has done at Spurs. But I dont know who else is out there, who we could reasonably hope to get, who has the right profile.
So with all that in mind, I am inclined to stick for now. But I hope Woodward is thinking about this. Thinking about it, and actively working on lining something up, so we have a plan in place if we find nothing has changed by this time next year.
Some counter-arguments here.
1. We were awful in the league last year and massively under-performed. It's only that under-performance that makes this year's results look so much better.
2. We've spent more on our squad than anyone bar City and our wage bill is as big as theirs, if not bigger. By finishing second we're only performing to par.
3. We're far closer to the 5th-placed team than the 1st-placed one, and that would be the case even if the 1st-place team were having a 'normal' title-winning season.
4. If the FA Cup was a major achievement, Arsenal wouldn't win it every year.
5. What makes you think Mourinho can learn from this and beat Guardiola next year? What's going to change?
His third season at Chelsea was the first he didn't win the league after walking it the two years before, his third season at Inter didn't happen because he won the treble in his second season and then left, and his third season at Real saw them lose out on the title by 15 points.
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