Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[AmanNits04]

I can't for my life believe that people still think we haven't made any progress from LVG's era.
Under LVG we had players like Darmian, Blind, schnidelin, depay playing for the first team.
Under Mourinho we have Lukaku, Pogba, Sanchez, Matic.
We are very good at home now, we are not losing or drawing to relegation fodder( there has been only two cases until now). Yes, we had a bad last month which sort of brought our season to a halt but we are still second and a good chance to advance into quaterrs of both Champions league and Fa Cup.
Who will replace Mourinho if he goes, I can't think of anyone who would guarantee titles.

People say Pochettino, who has been playing a with a constant squad for so long and still hasn't won shit.
We cannot expect Mourinho to ship out the entire team and bring in new players, it will take some time to clear the deadwood and bring in new players, he has already started clearing out. He moved out Rooney as soon as he saw that he isn't at the same level anymore, depay is gone, Schneiderlin gone, many more to go.
I have full faith in Mourinho, we won't dominate like we did under SAF because that's practically not possible, but we will be at the top challenging for trophies.

 

[Sky1981]

Has his work cut out if he wants the league. We can't just accept being second best.

So if poch take over and finished 2nd we sack him as well ? Because hey we can't accept anything other than 1st

 

[Adisa]

So if poch take over and finished 2nd we sack him as well ? Because hey we can't accept anything other than 1st

Who the feck is talking about the sack?

 

[Sky1981]

Who the feck is talking about the sack?

So.. if Jose finished 2nd, what will we do?

 

[Adisa]

So.. if Jose finished 2nd, what will we do?

We improve in every way possible so we can win it next season.
Don't know how you inferred that I'm talking about sacking him.

 

[Sky1981]

We improve in every way possible so we can win it next season.

Right. so we are in agreement to give jose another season to try and fix things to win it next season?

 

[Adisa]

Right. so we are in agreement to give jose another season to try and fix things to win it next season?

Don't know where you got the idea I wanted him sacked.
If we finish second, were not sacking him so there's no point thinking about it.

 

[Lawman]

I can't for my life believe that people still think we haven't made any progress from LVG's era.
Under LVG we had players like Darmian, Blind, schnidelin, depay playing for the first team.
Under Mourinho we have Lukaku, Pogba, Sanchez, Matic.
We are very good at home now, we are not losing or drawing to relegation fodder( there has been only two cases until now). Yes, we had a bad last month which sort of brought our season to a halt but we are still second and a good chance to advance into quaterrs of both Champions league and Fa Cup.
Who will replace Mourinho if he goes, I can't think of anyone who would guarantee titles.

People say Pochettino, who has been playing a with a constant squad for so long and still hasn't won shit.
We cannot expect Mourinho to ship out the entire team and bring in new players, it will take some time to clear the deadwood and bring in new players, he has already started clearing out. He moved out Rooney as soon as he saw that he isn't at the same level anymore, depay is gone, Schneiderlin gone, many more to go.
I have full faith in Mourinho, we won't dominate like we did under SAF because that's practically not possible, but we will be at the top challenging for trophies.

Well said and agree 100%

 

[Adisa]

We are facing a scenario in which any team that wants to win the league needing 95+ points.
At a loss thinking about how we can bridge that kind of a gap.

 

[Varun]

We are facing a scenario in which any team that wants to win the league needing 95+ points.
At a loss thinking about how we can bridge that kind of a gap.

Nope. City are unlikely to maintain this sort of results season on season. People thought the same when Jose's Chelsea burst onto the scene.

 

[Stacks]

Sure, Mourinho took over teams on or near the top of their game and it was his job to continue and enhance those positions. Whereas Ferguson built on the back of his own success Mourinho has built further on the back of that of others. Overhauling Guardiola's Barcelona was a big deal, taking Inter to the quadruple and Chelsea to their first championship for 50 years are all creditable achievements but I definitely accept your point.

He did well initially (and without vast resources) when he returned to Chelsea but I'd say the biggest challenge he's faced is his current one. He definitely has oodles more dosh than Ferguson had and his achievement if he takes Utd back in no way approaches Ferguson's own. He's competing against teams that themselves have more money but definitely has it far easier than ferguson did. I only alluded to the late eighties because, however obliquely, it still seemed to me to pertain more to the current situation of getting back to the top than comparisons to an already dominant Utd looking to maintain position.

definately similarities. where it diverges it that United last won the league title 5 years ago, and have some of those champions in this squad. I think United hadn't won the league for 18 years when Fergie took over but I get your sentiment.

 

[Adisa]

Nope. City are unlikely to maintain this sort of results season on season. People thought the same when Jose's Chelsea burst onto the scene.

I think we're kidding ourselves thinking that.
Not saying they'll play at this level forever but looking at Pep's teams, I see no reason to think there'll be a significant drop off.
Chelsea won it with 93 last year and God knows how many City will get (looking like 95+).
We have to assume that at least one of our rivals will be hitting that target.
As with your post in the other thread.
I'm not saying Pep will be hitting the same hights for the next 10 years, not even the next four or five.
I am talking about the next 1 or 2 seasons.
We can't just go into next season thinking, "nah, it's not possible for City to be as good".
We have to go into it thinking our poiints total needs to be in the 90s to win the thing, which doesn't leave much room for error.
I know Pep has said it's difficult but even in his most difficult season as a coach, his team had a very high points total.
Theywere just beaten by an unbelievable Madrid side.

 

[Greek9]

I think we're kidding ourselves thinking that.
Not saying they'll play at this level forever but looking at Pep's teams, I see no reason to think there'll be a significant drop off.
Chelsea won it with 93 last year and God knows how many City will get (looking like 95+).
We have to assume that at least one of our rivals will be hitting that target.
As with your post in the other thread.
I'm not saying Pep will be hitting the same hights for the next 10 years, not even the next four or five.
I am talking about the next 1 or 2 seasons.
We can't just go into next season thinking, "nah, it's not possible for City to be as good".
We have to go into it thinking our poiints total needs to be in the 90s to win the thing, which doesn't leave much room for error.
I know Pep has said it's difficult but even in his most difficult season as a coach, his team had a very high points total.
Theywere just beaten by an unbelievable Madrid side.

90 points is not 'very high', at least not in LaLiga.

 

[Kag]

I don't like the poll options.

I'm more of a: 'Mourinho's league position and CL progress is generally fine/he's bought pretty well/the quality of our football is nowhere near good enough/it will eventually end in tears although that doesn't mean I want him to be sacked at present' sort of stance.

 

[Womp]

I don't like the poll options.

I'm more of a: 'Mourinho's league position and CL progress is generally fine/he's bought pretty well/the quality of our football is nowhere near good enough/it will eventually end in tears although that doesn't mean I want him to be sacked at present' sort of stance.

Will it end in tears though? Even if he doesn't meet the standards we should be expecting of him, he'd leave the squad in a much better state for the next manager.

 

[Adisa]

90 points is not 'very high', at least not in LaLiga.

It was not until he arrived at Barca that teams started reaching such heights.

 

[Varun]

I think we're kidding ourselves thinking that.
Not saying they'll play at this level forever but looking at Pep's teams, I see no reason to think there'll be a significant drop off.
Chelsea won it with 93 last year and God knows how many City will get (looking like 95+).
We have to assume that at least one of our rivals will be hitting that target.
As with your post in the other thread.
I'm not saying Pep will be hitting the same hights for the next 10 years, not even the next four or five.
I am talking about the next 1 or 2 seasons.
We can't just go into next season thinking, "nah, it's not possible for City to be as good".
We have to go into it thinking our poiints total needs to be in the 90s to win the thing, which doesn't leave much room for error.
I know Pep has said it's difficult but even in his most difficult season as a coach, his team had a very high points total.
Theywere just beaten by an unbelievable Madrid side.

I'm not suggesting we go into the season with hope based on them declining substantially. All I'm saying is that a nearly perfect record is going to be hard to maintain again next season. I do think the bar's been raised but it has happened before as well. They could do a 90 pointer again and that itself will take some doing but what they're doing now is a level above. The league in itself is more competitive than the PL or the bundesliga at the top so what happened there doesn't matter much.

 

[Kag]

Will it end in tears though? Even if he doesn't meet the standards we should be expecting of him, he'd leave the squad in a much better state for the next manager.

I think there will be an eventual breakdown in relations somewhere along the line and we'll sack him. I don't think he'll win the league here either. Just a gut feeling, supported by how poor our attacking football generally is.

We'll have a better squad, but given we can buy players like Sanchez and Pogba I'd like to think that's the case.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm not suggesting we go into the season with hope based on them declining substantially. All I'm saying is that a nearly perfect record is going to be hard to maintain again next season. I do think the bar's been raised but it has happened before as well. They could do a 90 pointer again and that itself will take some doing but what they're doing now is a level above. The league in itself is more competitive than the PL or the bundesliga at the top so what happened there doesn't matter much.

Yeah, our expectations should be to consistently reach 80 points without breaking a sweat, if someone goes into the 90 points from time to time you just have to accept that they have been exceptional.

 

[Stacks]

Nope. City are unlikely to maintain this sort of results season on season. People thought the same when Jose's Chelsea burst onto the scene.

Well, you are comparing to completely different animals pal. Did Pep not win 3 titles in a row in both Spain and Germany, whilst scoring shed loads of goals and winning games by large margins. Looks like business as usual after the initial teething period. Its nice to be optimistic but what will suddenly change to stop them beating teams up? they will always have these players and will always dominate possession. They have young players who will improve. The EPL isn't full of tactical genius who will suddenly "figure it out". SAF could not even figure out how to deal with Peps style. The reasons for Chelsea's demise are well documented. Shevchenko was a big factor amoungst other "internal" issues . We just need to raise our level as Fergie did back in the day. If we have to buy our way into contention, so be it.

 

[Adisa]

Yeah, our expectations should be to consistently reach 80 points without breaking a sweat, if someone goes into the 90 points from time to time you just have to accept that they have been exceptional.

Apart from Leicester and us in the 2010/2011 season, the lowest points total of a league winning team has been 87 points since 2004.
I'd say if we want to win it, we have to be at looking at getting into 90s.
I know it's difficult but that's the challenge.
Especially as I think City will get 90+ again next season.

 

[Adisa]

Well, you are comparing to completely different animals pal. Did Pep not win 3 titles in a row in both Spain and Germany, whilst scoring shed loads of goals and winning games by large margins. Looks like business as usual after the initial teething period. Its nice to be optimistic but what will suddenly change to stop them beating teams up? they will always have these players and will always dominate possession. They have young players who will improve. The EPL isn't full of tactical genius who will suddenly "figure it out". SAF could not even figure out how to deal with Peps style. The reasons for Chelsea's demise are well documented. Shevchenko was a big factor amoungst other "internal" issues . We just need to raise our level as Fergie did back in the day. If we have to buy our way into contention, so be it.

Basically the point I'm trying to make.
The bar has been raised.
So we have no choice but to reach it rather than hope the other teams drop off.

 

[JPRouve]

Apart from Leicester and us in the 2010/2011 season, the lowest points total of a league winning team has been 87 points since 2004.
I'd say if we want to win it, we have to be at looking at getting into 90s.
I know it's difficult but that's the challenge.
Especially as I think City will get 90+ again next season.

I don't expect us to win every year, if we are in the 80s every year we are effectively challenging on a consistent basis, sometimes we will be in the high 80s and maybe 90s other times we will be in the low 80s because of bad form, bad luck or injuries. For me you can't put the floor at 90 points it's not realistic, so the goal is to win but the floor is to be very competitive.

 

[Stacks]

Yeah, our expectations should be to consistently reach 80 points without breaking a sweat, if someone goes into the 90 points from time to time you just have to accept that they have been exceptional.

80 points can quite easily just get you 3rd. Our expectations (if we want to be considered serious challengers) is to win every game. Why should United just accept inferiority? We are not turning into Arsenal. I honestly believe we can compete.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

City will lose momentum sooner or later, yes. They'll be figured out in various little ways, which will make it necessary to adjust and tweak, etc. The gap is big at the moment, though. They could easily defend the title.

Put differently, they could easily defend the title without this necessarily equating to Jose doing a poor job.

I prefer to look at how we aquit ourselves on the pitch for the time being. That has to improve, has to stabilize itself on an acceptable level (for United).

 

[Greek9]

If we win the CL and FA cup won't that mean he outperformed Pep for this season? im hoping

 

[Stacks]

A few points.

I've seen people use this method of popping a team from the past into today's league table to make an inference, and it's pretty flawed. Every season is different and the points tallies don't necessarily compare well across seasons. Going by this logic our team from 99 was pretty poor compared to last season's Chelsea, and would possibly even be behind the current United team this year. And that's not the case. The logic just doesn't work and ignores too many variables and the use of context which should never be the case. It's statistical playfullness to produce irrelevant conclusions.

Your second point about Chelsea and Arsenal being stronger than the teams fighting for top 4 then is a much more valid one. That's fine. But again, there's a lot to consider when deciding what to draw from that. Firstly that season was on the back of a brilliant league win. Sir Alex essentially bossed the league and then took a few years to transition because he felt it would be worth it. Jose had been brought in to win. He needs to deliver. Bringing us on to the second point that he has been backed with enormous funds to do so. He's getting players like Sanchez and Pogba whereas SAF went with Rooney and Ronaldo for the future along with punts like Djemba etc.

I have been trying to get this across in an articulate way but you did it the best. Its moot comparing different seasons as every season presents its own unique challenges.. you can only compare how they faired against their direct competition. What I have seen is that SAF was able to win titles with crap players in midfield so he must have some intangible "witch craft" that allows him to get players to over achieve. One can therefore imagine he could work wonders with top players as he has done in the past.

 

[Stacks]

City will lose momentum sooner or later, yes. They'll be figured out in various little ways, which will make it necessary to adjust and tweak, etc. The gap is big at the moment, though. They could easily defend the title.

Put differently, they could easily defend the title without this necessarily equating to Jose doing a poor job.

I prefer to look at how we aquit ourselves on the pitch for the time being. That has to improve, has to stabilize itself on an acceptable level (for United).

Not to be a negative nelly but I am trying to consider all possibilities. They have many young players who have never won titles before. That initial taste of victory should be enough to maintain momentum, as it did with our "kids". Pep has proven in the past he can win for a few years on the bounce so yes, we have our work cut out. Gone are the days of lazy Yaya, injury prone Kompany, troublesome Nasri and average Kolorov. The good news is that Pep has little stamina. I only expect 2 more seasons MAX of this and then things return to normal. Pep may even manage Brazil or Spain or something. Maybe even another "hiatus".

 

[JPRouve]

80 points can quite easily just get you 3rd. Our expectations (if we want to be considered serious challengers) is to win every game. Why should United just accept inferiority? We are not turning into Arsenal. I honestly believe we can compete.

Who is talking about Arsenal, you are mixing goals and expectations? Top managers with big samples like SAF and Mourinho have a career percentage win of about 60%-65%, so logically since I'm only talking about consistency when I translate that to a season it gives me something like 23-26 wins, those 23-26 wins are the floor and the expectation on a consistent basis, you obviously want to outperform that floor from time to time, if you outperform it 3 or 4 times per decade you can easily end up with at least 2 or 3 PLs which is a good expectation.
Now the way you go about trying to reach that long term expectation is obviously by having for goal to win every games, it won't happen but that's how you get to the type of record SAF got.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Not to be a negative nelly but I am trying to consider all possibilities. They have many young players who have never won titles before. That initial taste of victory should be enough to maintain momentum, as it did with our "kids". Pep has proven in the past he can win for a few years on the bounce so yes, we have our work cut out. Gone are the days of lazy Yaya, injury prone Kompany, troublesome Nasri and average Kolorov. The good news is that Pep has little stamina. I only expect 2 more seasons MAX of this and then things return to normal. Pep may even manage Brazil or Spain or something. Maybe even another "hiatus".

Yes, I can't see Pep sticking around to torment us with a Fergie style run (or anything like it). He'll probably move on before long - and then the equation becomes a very different one: They need to replace him with just the right man in order to maintain the level, which could go wrong in all sorts of ways.

Luckily, City aren't Barca. They don't have a long history of producing top sides - the foundation is quite different, being filthy rich doesn't compensate for that (I hope, at least).

 

[Varun]

Well, you are comparing to completely different animals pal. Did Pep not win 3 titles in a row in both Spain and Germany, whilst scoring shed loads of goals and winning games by large margins. Looks like business as usual after the initial teething period. Its nice to be optimistic but what will suddenly change to stop them beating teams up? they will always have these players and will always dominate possession. They have young players who will improve. The EPL isn't full of tactical genius who will suddenly "figure it out". SAF could not even figure out how to deal with Peps style. The reasons for Chelsea's demise are well documented. Shevchenko was a big factor amoungst other "internal" issues . We just need to raise our level as Fergie did back in the day. If we have to buy our way into contention, so be it.

The competition is better here than it is in Spain or Germany. I don't think they'll decline substantially as i already said. I just don't think they'll maintain this level where they win every game. As I said though, the bar has definitely been raised and teams who want to win the title will have to step it up, just not to the extent of needing 95-100 points.

 

[Varun]

Yeah, our expectations should be to consistently reach 80 points without breaking a sweat, if someone goes into the 90 points from time to time you just have to accept that they have been exceptional.

High 80s at least till Pep's here imo. 80 points won't be enough to beat his City side I'm afraid.

 

[PedroMendez]

Pep is a great manager, but they are not just great because of him. They have a remarkable squad and top alternatives for every position. Stones, Laporte, Danilo, Gündogan, Aguero and Bernado Silva have the quality to start for most EPL teams, yet when everyone is fit they'll be on the bench. Injuries won't de-rail their season, because thats easily enough quality to win against almost any club. Additionally any player who drops off form, can be replaced. So they wont just get complacent. Knowing City, they'll add another few players in summer. They might not be as good as they are this year, but they won't just fall off by a lot. If United wants to win the league, they have to step it up.

 

[JPRouve]

High 80s at least till Pep's here imo. 80 points won't be enough to beat his City side I'm afraid.

I don't expect us to beat them consistently, Guardiola teams have the bad habits of being extremely consistent at an extremely high level. Also City put themselves in a pretty situation, their rebuilt is over, they are in fine tuning mode while United, Barcelona, Real Madrid and probably Bayern are in a sort of rebuild phase, we are all going to compete for the same range of players and we will most likely all lose some battles while City won't have much to do and will be able to focus their means. At the risk of ruffling some feathers, I only see us turn this situation around through sheer luck, we need to have a player becoming far better than expected.

 

[Varun]

I don't expect us to beat them consistently, Guardiola teams have the bad habits of being extremely consistent at an extremely high level. Also City put themselves in a pretty situation, their rebuilt is over, they are in fine tuning mode while United, Barcelona, Real Madrid and probably Bayern are in a sort of rebuild phase, we are all going to compete for the same range of players and we will most likely all lose some battles while City won't have much to do and will be able to focus their means. At the risk of ruffling some feathers, I only see us turn this situation around through sheer luck, we need to have a player becoming far better than expected.

I don't see him lasting long enough at City for it to be a long term problem. His style is exhausting, he himself alluded to needing a change after 3 odd years. Also, long term, he will end up at Barca. Also, the mental part of it will come into play too. How well he can motivate himself and the players to perform at this level year on year. How he deals with someone like Mourinho starting the games via the media if we're in a battle say 20 games into the season. And I mean a real battle, not like this year.

 

[Canagel]

Jose has to get his act together if we want to win the PL in the near future because Man City are not going away. They've set a very high benchmark and even 80 points won't be enough next season. A lot of spending is still required to catch up and I don't see any other way we can challenge.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Well, I suppose the conclusion has to be that Jose needs to keep closing the gap - but that he doesn't necessarily have to best City in order for us to judge his performance as good enough under the circumstances.

Fair?

Personally, I will keep looking at the team performance more than the sheer results. We simply don't look like a top side at the moment - and that has to change. It has nothing to do with results in direct comparison with any of our rivals.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't see him lasting long enough at City for it to be a long term problem. His style is exhausting, he himself alluded to needing a change after 3 odd years. Also, long term, he will end up at Barca. Also, the mental part of it will come into play too. How well he can motivate himself and the players to perform at this level year on year. How he deals with someone like Mourinho starting the games via the media if we're in a battle say 20 games into the season. And I mean a real battle, not like this year.

I don't see it as a long term problem either, that's why as long as we do well and reach a respectable 80 something points I will be reasonably satisfied result wise, the performances have to complement it though. On the short term with Guardiola and City's jump start, I don't expect a all lot of success in the league but you never know this season might be an anomaly or we could improve a lot next season.

 

[Adisa]

I don't see it as a long term problem either, that's why as long as we do well and reach a respectable 80 something points I will be reasonably satisfied result wise, the performances have to complement it though. On the short term with Guardiola and City's jump start, I don't expect a all lot of success in the league but you never know this season might be an anomaly or we could improve a lot next season.

We are on course to get 80 something points despite not playing well for large parts of the season and no player maintaining form for long periods.
We are the ones that have to improve considerably.
We can't just give up on the league for the foreseeable.
Pep had a lot of work to do when he joined and we've also spent considerable amounts ourselves.
The focus has to be on signings that can raise our level and getting the best out of our talented players we see as being part of our future.
The latter hasn't happened.
This club has a lot of spare capacity as well.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

We are facing a scenario in which any team that wants to win the league needing 95+ points.
At a loss thinking about how we can bridge that kind of a gap.

I agree with @Varun in that they probably won't maintain this sort of consistency for too long. Have a look at a quick comparison of where SAF had us sitting in his final title winning season:

After 28 games: Won 23; Drawn 2; Lost 3; Pts 71

Just four points behind this current City side lauded as the greatest every in the PL. And by GWK 30, we set the record for the most points attained after 30 games in the English 1st Division (77) since a Spurs side a very, very long time ago. I reckon City will drop off by the end of the month once the league is confirmed. They'll probably end up with around 90-93 points.