Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

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And Arsenal should be grateful they aren't Newcastle? Some people think criticizing Mourinho and being negative on a few things makes you hate this club. If anything it means we care about it. Just because we are second doesn't mean there are definitely a few things that are concerning to me as a fan. Mourinho needs to step up his game particularly in getting the best out of players like Pogba and Sanchez
The same people will always complain till we won 4 trophies every season playing good football , another group of people will complaining any coach that aren't sir alex forever can't move on.
Those people with mindset "grass always greener on the other side" can never be satisfied nor be grateful with what we have at the moment
Truthfully speaking , I don't see any coach better suited for us than jose mourinho , i doubt the likes of poch or klopp can withstand the pressures of managing the most popular club with the biggest fanbase in this world , pressure from media & from fanbase itself is much bigger than what they are dealing with currently
 
Can the football be better? Yes. Has the football been better this season anyways? Yes again. Are terms like rubbish, abysmal etc over the top? Yes again. Also, once you start pretending that the only ones who are objective are the ones that agree with you, it makes for a poor discussion.
Have we improved on last years position in the league? Yes.
Do I think Mourinho has been better than Moyes and LVG? Yes again.
After our substantial spend, has Mourinho really got us any closer to performing like a club who can challenge for the top trophies? I would say no, due to our lack of chemistry and fluency and general lack of contemporary playing style.

I understand that this is difficult to swallow but lets be honest here Varun, the football is pretty much acknowledged universally as having been poor and dull to watch. That is simply the reality of the universal perception of our play. Denying this is pointless. Subjectively finding our play good or exciting is a form of denial. ( Not referring to you here Varun but to some fans). And I'm sorry if the adjective hurts but certainly our team chemistry has been 'abysmal' at times.

I realise this is difficult to digest, (as it is for all of us), and I agree our perception as fans, is always going to be irrational to an extent, as we are emotionally tied to the club and it really is hard to admit how terrible on the eye we have been.

We need to get away from the black and white thinking that has split fans too readily into camps pro or anti Mourinho. Jose needs to get us playing with team chemistry and a fluent football style to get the best out of our players, which definitely has not happened thus far. Admitting this reality, though painful for some (as it implies a blow to the ego) does not neccessarily equate to being somehow disloyal to the club. Perhaps the kind of awkward, defensive football being served up itself is felt is perceived as a betrayal of all United once stood for, and this has something to do with the friction amongst our support.

In fact understanding our failings is a neccessary step to take in our path toward improving and reaching our goal.
Quite simply if our team chemistey and dynamic does not get better we will not reach the goal Mourinho has been hired to reach. So opening our eyes to our failings can help us achieve our goal. We do not have to be overly pessimistic but denying the extent of our problems will only result in more stubborn lack of progress. Hopefully Mourinho's undoubted astuteness and ability to see reality will get the better of his stubborness in resisting change, that change that is neccessary to see us challenging at the top level again.

We can all pull together, admit the extent of our failings without being overly negative, and attend to their elimination by adapting a more attacking and fluent United style of football that improves our team chemistry and gets the most out of our undoubtedly talented individual players. Together we can still cheer the team on as we strive to get back to the top. Over to you José.
 
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The effort to protect Jose from any criticism and build any small achievements is also quite also underrated.

The goal posts never shifted unless you failed to understand them in the first place. Jose has been hired to win the big trophies (naturally given this is a big club). So everyone and their pet racoon knows that. He will judged by that first and foremost. Until he achieves those he will not be deemed a success at United. The next criteria for performance appraisal, in the absence of those trophies, that he would be judged by is how well he's gotten us playing and how close we are to achievement the aforementioned goal.

So no, trophies like the bloody league cup and Europa league are not the aim. They're nice for us fans to celebrate (and yes we should) and good for the trophy cabinet but this isn't why he was hired. Just like LVG wasn't hired to win the FA cup. Or Wenger isn't championed for his 3 FA cups in 4 years.

As for performance and getting closer to our goals, I'd say we are better than we were 12 months back but that doesn't mean we are well on our way to success. It's definitely debatable point. It's not like we're playing cracking football and it's evident that were well on our way to where we need to be. There are still a fair few problems and doubts many here have and for good reason. Performances and how close you are to success, unlike actual trophies is a grey area. One poster will look at results and say they're better and be happy. The other will expect that but not be satisfied with how well our flair players are performing as he feels they're key to our success. Or the tactics in tighter games may lead to negativity.

All in all I'm on the fence with Jose and I don't see any reason not to be. I like certain things he's done and don't like certain things he's done.
Good post.
There's an attempt to lump people that aren't convinced and the few people that are calling for his head, together.
 
Good post.
There's an attempt to lump people that aren't convinced and the few people that are calling for his head, together.

There is no space for middle ground here, funnily enough if you post one negative and one positive thing about JM in same sentence, its not those from "sack JM" camp who will have pop at you. Maybe other side think after recent shift regarding negativity here, they can paint as toxic/negative any post they dont like when it comes to JM.
 
The same people will always complain till we won 4 trophies every season playing good football , another group of people will complaining any coach that aren't sir alex forever can't move on.
Those people with mindset "grass always greener on the other side" can never be satisfied nor be grateful with what we have at the moment

Truthfully speaking , I don't see any coach better suited for us than jose mourinho , i doubt the likes of poch or klopp can withstand the pressures of managing the most popular club with the biggest fanbase in this world , pressure from media & from fanbase itself is much bigger than what they are dealing with currently
You're not very good at analysing opinions or people.
 
There is no space for middle ground here, funnily enough if you post one negative and one positive thing about JM in same sentence, its not those from "sack JM" camp who will have pop at you. Maybe other side think after recent shift regarding negativity here, they can paint as toxic/negative any post they dont like when it comes to JM.
Yep! My stance hasn't changed - I want a different manager in and have done for months. With that said, I don't have a go at those who still have faith in him because I can see where they're coming from, too.
 
The effort to protect Jose from any criticism and build any small achievements is also quite also underrated.

The goal posts never shifted unless you failed to understand them in the first place. Jose has been hired to win the big trophies (naturally given this is a big club). So everyone and their pet racoon knows that. He will judged by that first and foremost. Until he achieves those he will not be deemed a success at United. The next criteria for performance appraisal, in the absence of those trophies, that he would be judged by is how well he's gotten us playing and how close we are to achievement the aforementioned goal.

So no, trophies like the bloody league cup and Europa league are not the aim. They're nice for us fans to celebrate (and yes we should) and good for the trophy cabinet but this isn't why he was hired. Just like LVG wasn't hired to win the FA cup. Or Wenger isn't championed for his 3 FA cups in 4 years.

As for performance and getting closer to our goals, I'd say we are better than we were 12 months back but that doesn't mean we are well on our way to success. It's definitely debatable point. It's not like we're playing cracking football and it's evident that were well on our way to where we need to be. There are still a fair few problems and doubts many here have and for good reason. Performances and how close you are to success, unlike actual trophies is a grey area. One poster will look at results and say they're better and be happy. The other will expect that but not be satisfied with how well our flair players are performing as he feels they're key to our success. Or the tactics in tighter games may lead to negativity.

All in all I'm on the fence with Jose and I don't see any reason not to be. I like certain things he's done and don't like certain things he's done.

I can see that you were there when Ed and the rest of the board were negotiating with Jose and spelling out his terms of employment. I can also see that you have seen his contract both the first one and the new one he just signed. So, I guess you are right about all the 'criteria' for hiring and keeping him.

Since you know, you might be able to clarify why they recently gave him a new contract when he has been performing so poorly and not meeting up with all the criteria you spelt out.
 
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I can see that you were there when Ed and the rest of the bard were negotiating with Jose and spelling out his terms of employment. I can also see that you have seen his contract both the first one and the new one he just signed. So, I guess you are right about all the 'criteria' for hiring and keeping him.

Since you know, you might be able to clarify why they recently gave him a new contract when he has been performing so poorly and not meeting up with all the criteria you spelt out.

He is talking about fan's expectations and the criterias that different fans will use when they judge a manager.
 
It's hardly controversial. Most people (pundits, journalists, fans of other clubs etc.) think we've played fairly shite football for the most part this season, and I don't think you can chalk all of that up to ABUism either. You just need to watch us play.

Yes, I really need to watch us play as I have been in a strange trance watching an alien team that wears United like Jerseys and has clones of all our players and manager and plays in a matrix like stadium that is also coincidentally called Old Traffford (with an extra 'f').
 
He is talking about fan's expectations and the criterias that different fans will use when they judge a manager.

No he is not. He is talking with absolute certainty about the terms of Jose's job and the yardstick that will be used to determine if he is doing his job or not. Fans will always be divided. Any board worth its designation, will have clear terms and yardsticks for any manager it hires. Those will be spelt out in the agreement. His post indicated that he has seen that agreement and is even a member of the board which coincidentally just renewed Jose's contract.
 
No he is not. He is talking with absolute certainty about the terms of Jose's job and the yardstick that will be used to determine if he is doing his job or not. Fans will always be divided. Any board worth its designation, will have clear terms and yardsticks for any manager it hires. Those will be spelt out in the agreement. which coincidentally just renewed Jose's contract.

"...His post indicated that he has seen that agreement and is even a member of the board.."
That's just silly.
Look it's pretty obvious that after almost 2 years we have not seen any great improvements in our performance especially in our playing style. The board are not blind and will be very alert to the fact that we are no more looking like title winners than under LVG and the board no doubt will be concerned about the negative impact our woeful playing style will have on our global popularity. As will sponsors be very concerned too.

Mourinho doesnt have much time left to switch things around this season. We should make top four but I think if we can really make a go of it in the champions league then Mourinho could buy himself the right to another season at the helm. But play cowardly and go out with a whimper then he should be rightfully dismissed.
 
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No he is not. He is talking with absolute certainty about the terms of Jose's job and the yardstick that will be used to determine if he is doing his job or not. Fans will always be divided. Any board worth its designation, will have clear terms and yardsticks for any manager it hires. Those will be spelt out in the agreement. His post indicated that he has seen that agreement and is even a member of the board which coincidentally just renewed Jose's contract.
He said Jose has been hired to win big trophies.
Only an idiot would believe that's not the case.
 
No he is not. He is talking with absolute certainty about the terms of Jose's job and the yardstick that will be used to determine if he is doing his job or not. Fans will always be divided. Any board worth its designation, will have clear terms and yardsticks for any manager it hires. Those will be spelt out in the agreement. His post indicated that he has seen that agreement and is even a member of the board which coincidentally just renewed Jose's contract.
:lol:

Your post indicates that you find words difficult to understand.
 
Not winning the title this season is not the reason why many of us want him gone. It’s down to the mind numbingly boring football he has the team playing.

We have a very good squad, which could become an excellent squad with a few key signings here and there.

Mourinho is not getting anywhere close to the best out of this team. Not even close.
 
There is no space for middle ground here, funnily enough if you post one negative and one positive thing about JM in same sentence, its not those from "sack JM" camp who will have pop at you. Maybe other side think after recent shift regarding negativity here, they can paint as toxic/negative any post they dont like when it comes to JM.

I think it's clear I have been on the happier end of this endless tug of war - but what you've said here isn't true. It's not just one negative comment. I made a thread after a win back in December asking why we couldn't even be positive after a win. Recently, regardless of whether we win, lose or draw, the only comments you'll read are bashing the manager, players or somebody else. It's actually tiresome and boring and makes this place really one dimensional and pure shit, to be honest.

This assessment thread epitomises that state of this place. Very little is said of a good performance or result such as a win against Chelsea than is said for a loss or draw such as the game against Tottenham. At least be fair and objective in your views and posts. I understand the apprehensions faced by many posters however reading them on every page does nothing but ruin this forum.
 
I can see that you were there when Ed and the rest of the board were negotiating with Jose and spelling out his terms of employment. I can also see that you have seen his contract both the first one and the new one he just signed. So, I guess you are right about all the 'criteria' for hiring and keeping him.

Since you know, you might be able to clarify why they recently gave him a new contract when he has been performing so poorly and not meeting up with all the criteria you spelt out.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what he has just said. Stop picking arguments.
 
Not winning the title this season is not the reason why many of us want him gone. It’s down to the mind numbingly boring football he has the team playing.

We have a very good squad, which could become an excellent squad with a few key signings here and there.

Mourinho is not getting anywhere close to the best out of this team. Not even close.
I agree with most of what you've said. However, I'm not advocating for him to leave. I still think we can afford him more time.
My frustration is also born out of the fact that I'm convinced this team can play at a much higher level than it is.
I'd like to see the effect two proper attacking FBs can have. It could potentially transform our attack.
 
The effort to protect Jose from any criticism and build any small achievements is also quite also underrated.

The goal posts never shifted unless you failed to understand them in the first place. Jose has been hired to win the big trophies (naturally given this is a big club). So everyone and their pet racoon knows that. He will judged by that first and foremost. Until he achieves those he will not be deemed a success at United. The next criteria for performance appraisal, in the absence of those trophies, that he would be judged by is how well he's gotten us playing and how close we are to achievement the aforementioned goal.

So no, trophies like the bloody league cup and Europa league are not the aim. They're nice for us fans to celebrate (and yes we should) and good for the trophy cabinet but this isn't why he was hired. Just like LVG wasn't hired to win the FA cup. Or Wenger isn't championed for his 3 FA cups in 4 years.

As for performance and getting closer to our goals, I'd say we are better than we were 12 months back but that doesn't mean we are well on our way to success. It's definitely debatable point. It's not like we're playing cracking football and it's evident that were well on our way to where we need to be. There are still a fair few problems and doubts many here have and for good reason. Performances and how close you are to success, unlike actual trophies is a grey area. One poster will look at results and say they're better and be happy. The other will expect that but not be satisfied with how well our flair players are performing as he feels they're key to our success. Or the tactics in tighter games may lead to negativity.

All in all I'm on the fence with Jose and I don't see any reason not to be. I like certain things he's done and don't like certain things he's done.

Pretty fair and balanced post imo. It will be lost in the sea of other posts from both camps fighting each other, though. I back Jose but can see why people have doubts about him at this point.
 
I think it's clear I have been on the happier end of this endless tug of war - but what you've said here isn't true. It's not just one negative comment. I made a thread after a win back in December asking why we couldn't even be positive after a win. Recently, regardless of whether we win, lose or draw, the only comments you'll read are bashing the manager, players or somebody else. It's actually tiresome and boring and makes this place really one dimensional and pure shit, to be honest.

This assessment thread epitomises that state of this place. Very little is said of a good performance or result such as a win against Chelsea than is said for a loss or draw such as the game against Tottenham. At least be fair and objective in your views and posts. I understand the apprehensions faced by many posters however reading them on every page does nothing but ruin this forum.

People aren’t being negative just for the sake of it mate. 99.9% of the time it’s due to frustration with the way we are playing.

Go into any rival football forum and you will see exactly the same frustrations from supporters.
 
I agree with most of what you've said. However, I'm not advocating for him to leave. I still think we can afford him more time.
My frustration is also born out of the fact that I'm convinced this team can play at a much higher level than it is.
I'd like to see the effect two proper attacking FBs can have. It could potentially transform our attack.

The fullback position has been a big issue for a very long time. It’s an area that we need to sort out this summer.
 
People aren’t being negative just for the sake of it mate. 99.9% of the time it’s due to frustration with the way we are playing.

Go into any rival football forum and you will see exactly the same frustrations from supporters.

Not many other club fans complaining when they won something. Only united fans.

Liverpool never say how shit they are to be beaten 3-0 at half time.
 
Not many other club fans complaining when they won something. Only united fans.

Liverpool never say how shit they are to be beaten 3-0 at half time.

In the words of a great manager, that's because Liverpool are specialist in failure.
 
No he is not. He is talking with absolute certainty about the terms of Jose's job and the yardstick that will be used to determine if he is doing his job or not. Fans will always be divided. Any board worth its designation, will have clear terms and yardsticks for any manager it hires. Those will be spelt out in the agreement. His post indicated that he has seen that agreement and is even a member of the board which coincidentally just renewed Jose's contract.
:lol:
 
Are they the words of a great manager though? That’s the big question we should debate.

When his career is over, he will be one of the best ever. The question is whether he is still at the top of his game or if is a lesser manager today.
 
When his career is over, he will be one of the best ever. The question is whether he is still at the top of his game or if is a lesser manager today.

I know. I was being sarcastic given the debate which is actually currently raging in this thread.
 
He said Jose has been hired to win big trophies.
Only an idiot would believe that's not the case.

Win big trophies, yes. But when? Did they say, "If you don't win a 'big' trophy in your first two seasons, then we'll fire you?" We don't really know that, do we? People need to be a bit more humble in making assertions. Use words like 'if', 'maybe', 'perhaps'.
 
Win big trophies, yes. But when? Did they say, "If you don't win a 'big' trophy in your first two seasons, then we'll fire you?" We don't really know that, do we? People need to be a bit more humble in making assertions. Use words like 'if', 'maybe', 'perhaps'.

And Amol hasn't talked about sacking anyone.
 
"...His post indicated that he has seen that agreement and is even a member of the board.."
That's just silly.
Look it's pretty obvious that after almost 2 years we have not seen any great improvements in our performance especially in our playing style. The board are not blind and will be very alert to the fact that we are no more looking like title winners than under LVG and the board no doubt will be concerned about the negative impact our woeful playing style will have on our global popularity. As will sponsors be very concerned too.

Mourinho doesnt have much time left to switch things around this season. We should make top four but I think if we can really make a go of it in the champions league then Mourinho could buy himself the right to another season at the helm. But play cowardly and go out with a whimper then he should be rightfully dismissed.


Now, that's more silly.
 
If you think Mourinho is bad in big games, then what the hell are the others. I wonder what the reaction would be if we went to the Etihad and got spanked 5-0 like Liverpool?
 
One thing i'll never agree with Mourinho on is his begging of Fellaini to stay, he's put the club over a barrel for such a average lanky player, he needs to get rid of this guy and get in 2 better central midfielders not chuck him on the field for hoofball when we are desperate.
 
Win big trophies, yes. But when? Did they say, "If you don't win a 'big' trophy in your first two seasons, then we'll fire you?" We don't really know that, do we? People need to be a bit more humble in making assertions. Use words like 'if', 'maybe', 'perhaps'.

What are you even on about? This seems to be more about you feeling threatened by by kid gloves not been used in a post on the internet, which is a bit odd.

And Amol hasn't talked about sacking anyone.
It's pretty amusing how even balanced views wind up the extremely pro Mourinho lot. They seem to lack perspective and tolerance just as much as ones at the opposite end.
 
It's pretty amusing how even balanced views wind up the extremely pro Mourinho lot. They seem to lack perspective and tolerance just as much as ones at the opposite end.

In all honesty pro Mourinho are far worse, in an ironic way they are extremely negative, anything said that isn't overwhelmingly positive is interpreted as the worst thing ever. They can't understand that having doubts isn't the end of the world, it's not a death sentence, it's not even a sentence. Also some of them are perfectly happy to throw players under the bus.
 
If you think Mourinho is bad in big games, then what the hell are the others. I wonder what the reaction would be if we went to the Etihad and got spanked 5-0 like Liverpool?

Or beat City 4-3 like Liverpool?
Its not like we went to the bridge last season and got spanked 4-0.
 
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