Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Di Maria's angel]

And? Should we just quit then? When we were the outstanding team in the league, it never stopped other teams from making it hard for us to pull away. Are just going to add City to the every increasing list of excuses? Are they the reason we are this far behind or should pretend that it's our inability to do better. No one has asked us to win the league and I'm sure none of the posters that have made up this fictitious line have yet to answer @Dobbs. All we ask is to make it difficult for the league leaders after all the money spent. Afterall, José is quick to come out with another "at least" excuse that at least we are better off than 18 other teams despite comfortably outspending 18 other teams. Or is that too much to ask for? Where is the ambition?

I'm almost certain that if City pull further away, there will still be excuses that our point tally would have won the league in 2005.

Have we quit? We've won 12 out of 17 PL games which is always a good return.

What about 12/13, when we won the league at a canter? What about last season when no-one could chase Chelsea? As for making it difficult for City, that's exactly what we're doing. How the feck are meant to stop them from winning 15 games in a row? Granted we could have beaten them on Sunday, but clearly they're better than us.

Honestly, it just looks like that you dislike Mourinho and will find any excuse to have a go at him. And then you have yourself and @Dobbs somehow arguing that this sort of start to a season is the norm which it fecking isn't. This is the best start to any PL campaign yet neither of you seem to understand the definition of "normal". Here let me help you both:

norm
nɔːm/
noun

1. 1.
   something that is usual, typical, or standard.
   "strikes were the norm"
   synonyms: standard, usual, normal, typical, average, the rule, predictable, unexceptional, par for the course, what one would expect, expected, (only) to be expected
   "child protection teams are now the norm in local authorities"

Lets help you further:

After game week 17:
09/10: Chelsea 1st @ 40 points
10/11: United 1st @ 34 points
11/12: City 1st @ 44 points
12/13: United 1st @ 42 points
13/14: Liverpool 1st @ 36 points
14/15: Chelsea 1st @ 42 points
15/16: Leicester 1st @ 38 points
16/17: Chelsea 1st @ 43 points

As the numbers vary, statisticians use this incredible method to work out an average. The number we can derive from a simple calculation is just under 40. Therefore, we can state that "on average, over the last 8 seasons, 40 points is normally enough to be first". But, hey, what about the season where City had 44, your statement of averages doesn't really apply there? That's why we mention the term "norm" and we can state that "it isn't usual for a team to have 49 points after 17 games as can be seen in the evidence above".

 

[haram]

I read it clearly and I know that they've won 16/17 but at some point we going to stop looking at to blame them for where we are and maybe just look at ourselves, right?

Surely we went into this season being responsible for what we do and not trying to rely on what other clubs do which seems be a thing now. Leave City alone to do what they are doing for a second, and consider that we are as close to 8th as we are to them, and that it's more likely for us to be caught than to catch. We only gave City 3 points because they have spent trillions, compared to the teams beneath us, should we not be pulling away better than we are currently doing?

Do you not understand that 38 points is not a bad points total? What the hell do you want me to say? Removing City and looking at ourselves, we STILL have a good points total and we are still ahead of everybody else. What would Chelsea's and Liverpool's points total be if Hazard and Salah were out for two months like Pogba was?

 

[Treble]

They have spent more than what they were spending before though. Your point holds no weight if you are just going to say they have not spent the same as City and United, because the other teams have never done so.

Have they? 5-6 years ago a good full-back cost 20m, not 50m. Relative to the current market, Jose's signings 04-06 would amount to probably 700m. Or more. Sigurdsson costs 45m. Back in 2004 one could buy 2 players like Drogba for such money or one of the very best players in the world.

 

[haram]

Have they? 5-6 years ago a good full-back cost 20m, not 50m. Relative to the current market, Jose's signings 04-06 would amount to probably 700m. Or more. Sigurdsson costs 45m. Back in 2004 one could buy 2 players like Drogba for such money or one of the very best players in the world.

The fact that Everton spent 45 million on Sigurdsson kind of defeats your point...

 

[RedDevil@84]

Has Jose been arrested yet for talking crap about St. Pep's honest players?

 

[Treble]

The fact that Everton spent 45 million on Sigurdsson kind of defeats your point...

Why?

 

[haram]

Why?

I was arguing that the teams below Man United and City are spending more money as well.

 

[Adarsh CU]

Do you not understand that 38 points is not a bad points total? What the hell do you want me to say? Removing City and looking at ourselves, we STILL have a good points total and we are still ahead of everybody else. What would Chelsea's and Liverpool's points total be if Hazard and Salah were out for two months like Pogba was?

This. I fail to understand some of the contradictions from people. People say we need to not look at ourselves, but its a fact that we have had one of the best seasons in terms of points post Fergie era. Saw on Reddit that our points tally this season would have landed us at the top spot in any of the past 10 seasons. That's very very good for me with the fact that we lost Pogba for key matches - Chelsea, Tottenham, Pool.

 

[Treble]

I was arguing that the teams below Man United and City are spending more money as well.

Sorry, my bad.

 

[haram]

Sorry, my bad.

No worries.

That's very very good for me with the fact that we lost Pogba for key matches - Chelsea, Tottenham, Pool.

And City!

 

[dichinero]

@Di Maria's angel thank you for displaying your superior academic prowess in defining the word "norm" in a normal football discussion between fans. I'll let you if I'm struggling with anymore words, ok?

And sure, I dislike José so much that I've never called for him to be fired but despite my disposition to him I hope and expect him to do better because I think his calibre should demand more from him. I must really despise his existence because I demand more from a world class manager.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

@Di Maria's angel thank you for displaying your superior academic prowess in defining the word "norm" in a normal football discussion between fans. I'll let you if I'm struggling with anymore words, ok?

And sure, I dislike José so much that I've never called for him to be fired but despite my disposition to him I hope and expect him to do better because I think his calibre should demand more from him. I must really despise his existence because I demand more from a world class manager.

A couple of things:

The season isn't over.
What you're demanding is perfection and that's not happening.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Why compare a season in which 1 team is having the best winning run in league, to an average season where none of the English clubs did extraordinarily well. It is a standout performance by City, so we need to compare that with best seasons of Jose's Chelsea or SAF's Utd.

 

[dichinero]

Do you not understand that 38 points is not a bad points total? What the hell do you want me to say? Removing City and looking at ourselves, we STILL have a good points total and we are still ahead of everybody else. What would Chelsea's and Liverpool's points total be if Hazard and Salah were out for two months like Pogba was?

Dude, I'm trying to compel you to say anything or agree with me. I'm just stating my own opinion. You say 38 points brilliant, you're entitled to that. I'm saying 12 points behind one team after 16 games is not, is that not an opinion based on a fact. If you had given the offer of being 12 points behind after 16 games but with 38 points, at the start of the season, would have accepted that? I don't know what you'd say but I for one would reject that because I we have a good enough squad and manager to close that gap even if it only by a few more points at that stage.

As for the Pogba thing, it's a shame he is been out but I still rate the squad and manager enough to do better in his absence. We only have ourselves to blame for effectively being a one man team. Over the course of the season, we will get points over teams that are not at their full strength but if and buts will not bump any of these teams at the end of the season.

 

[el3mel]

Why compare a season in which 1 team is having the best winning run in league, to an average season where none of the English clubs did extraordinarily well. It is a standout performance by City, so we need to compare that with best seasons of Jose's Chelsea or SAF's Utd.

Well, in our double season (2007/2008), we had 39 points at this stage, one point more than what we have now.

 

[haram]

Dude, I'm trying to compel you to say anything or agree with me. I'm just stating my own opinion. You say 38 points brilliant, you're entitled to that. I'm saying 12 points behind one team after 16 games is not, is that not an opinion based on a fact. If you had given the offer of being 12 points behind after 16 games but with 38 points, at the start of the season, would have accepted that? I don't know what you'd say but I for one would reject that because I we have a good enough squad and manager to close that gap even if it only by a few more points at that stage.

As for the Pogba thing, it's a shame he is been out but I still rate the squad and manager enough to do better in his absence. We only have ourselves to blame for effectively being a one man team. Over the course of the season, we will get points over teams that are not at their full strength but if and buts will not bump any of these teams at the end of the season.

I wouldn't accept a 11 point gap at the start of the season because I wouldn't believe any team would be able to win 16 out of 17 games. We are a one man team and still ahead of the rest despite that one man being out for over two months. He missed big games. As did his backup in Fellaini.

 

[haram]

If you said to me Pogba will miss games against Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and be out for 2 months missing other games, I would have accepted 38 points at the start of the season. I would have looked at seasons gone by and seen that 38 points would be a decent total. No one could see this run Man City are on coming.

 

[dichinero]

A couple of things:

The season isn't over.
What you're demanding is perfection and that's not happening.

I'm not demanding perfection at all. I'm only demanding better than just the bare minimum. I said at the start of the season that I didn't think that we would win the title because I don't agree with José's approach and methods, however if their was an evolution to him I'm certain we would make the race tighter for the eventual winners.

I'm not going to go into this point tally Vs point difference anymore but I still maintain my stance that as brilliant as Pep and City are, they are not 12 points better than José and United are, after 16 games. I'm saying this whilst not being a José fan. The point difference at this stage is stuff I expect from leagues that have run away teams.

Yes, the season isn't over and that I agree that a lot can still happen but you can't blame fans it they don't feel as confident about the rest of the season as you. We could still close the gap or they could go even further away. As it stands, the momentum is definitely in their favour and we have task not to even get caught up in the battle for 2nd place.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Well, in our double season (2007/2008), we had 39 points at this stage, one point more than what we have now.

The season before that, we had like 44 pts from 17 games. And the season before that Chelsea had 46 pts from 17 games..
So when we or Chelsea had their best starts (like what City are having now), neither were way behind.

 

[dichinero]

If you said to me Pogba will miss games against Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and be out for 2 months missing other games, I would have accepted 38 points at the start of the season. I would have looked at seasons gone by and seen that 38 points would be a decent total. No one could see this run Man City are on coming.

Well, that's the difference between you and me. I'd have expected the massive investment and calibre of manager to still maybe up some ground. It's funny how people get all aggy at me when I'm have a hope and confidence that despite the situation we can and should do better and there are fans that think we are massively overachieving.

Paul Ince said that Fergie made it a point of duty to ensure that the team went with a mindset of winning every single game, regardless of the opposition. This is what City have been doing and they are rightly reaping the dividends. We should be going into every season thinking that our rival are thinking the same thing. I remember one fan telling me that José's ultimate recipe is beating small teams and just taking whatever against rivals. That worked when we had fewer rivals, never would it work now.

 

[Adarsh CU]

I'm not demanding perfection at all. I'm only demanding better than just the bare minimum. I said at the start of the season that I didn't think that we would win the title because I don't agree with José's approach and methods, however if their was an evolution to him I'm certain we would make the race tighter for the eventual winners.

It's hard to put forward an argument when you consider being second as the bare minimum. And your next statement says that you never expected us to win the title. So, we are going along your expected lines and better than everyone else. City having a ridiculous season should not bar you from seeing the progress we have made, especially since you never expected title winning progress in the first place.

 

[el3mel]

The season before that, we had like 44 pts from 17 games. And the season before that Chelsea had 46 pts from 17 games..
So when we or Chelsea had their best starts (like what City are having now), neither were way behind.

Can you argue that our team in 2008 and 2009 wasn't the best we had since 1999 ? It was the most consistent and combined youth with experience.

 

[haram]

Well, that's the difference between you and me. I'd have expected the massive investment and calibre of manager to still maybe up some ground. It's funny how people get all aggy at me when I'm have a hope and confidence that despite the situation we can and should do better and there are fans that think we are massively overachieving.

Paul Ince said that Fergie made it a point of duty to ensure that the team went with a mindset of winning every single game, regardless of the opposition. This is what City have been doing and they are rightly reaping the dividends. We should be going into every season thinking that our rival are thinking the same thing. I remember one fan telling me that José's ultimate recipe is beating small teams and just taking whatever against rivals. That worked when we had fewer rivals, never would it work now.

Ok, well if you want to delude yourself and forget about our very recent history then that's on you. 38 points would have been a good total considering the games Pogba missed but you have it in your mind that we should have won those games anyway. Even if we had drawn against Chelsea and City, you'd moan over the 9 point gap.

 

[dichinero]

Ok, well if you want to delude yourself and forget about our very recent history then that's on you. 38 points would have been a good total considering the games Pogba missed but you have it in your mind that we should have won those games anyway. Even if we had drawn against Chelsea and City, you'd moan over the 9 point gap.

Whatever works for you. If pulling out every excuse under the sun makes you feel better about being 12 points behind after 16 games, good for you. While you're at it, enjoy your unrestricted right to moan at the opinion of every poster that has a different opinion or has a higher expectation.

 

[haram]

Whatever works for you. If pulling out every excuse under the sun makes you feel better about being 12 points behind after 16 games, good for you. While you're at it, enjoy your unrestricted right to moan at the opinion of every poster that has a different opinion or has a higher expectation.

Yeah because the excuses that our best outfield player has been out for over two months missing big games and the fact that City are on a record breaking streak are so out of this world and ridiculous. You're ridiculous for thinking 38 points at this point of the season with all things considered, somehow proves we are bad.

What a joke. Cant even give any sort of credit.

 

[Dancfc]

Do you not understand that 38 points is not a bad points total? What the hell do you want me to say? Removing City and looking at ourselves, we STILL have a good points total and we are still ahead of everybody else. What would Chelsea's and Liverpool's points total be if Hazard and Salah were out for two months like Pogba was?

Hazard was injured at the start of the season and we coped quite well without him. Ofcourse you will always miss a player of that class but Conte's system minimizes his loss pretty well. Jose teams struggle a lot more with the best attacker injured/off form because he put's heavy attacking burden on them, it's been a common theme through his career - Lampard, Sneijder, Ronaldo, Hazard and now Pogba (didn't see his Porto team enough but im guessing 'that' player for him then was Deco) he relies on the best player producing the goods and the others to be clever enough to play off him. Hazard not playing or being off form under Jose crippled us to the point we'd even struggle vs lower division sides, these days we do allright.

Now, don't mistake me here, im not saying that's a bad philosophy, it's clearly got a use as his trophy record demonstrates. Im just responding to your point that we would miss Hazard as much as you do Pogba.

 

[el3mel]

Hazard was injured at the start of the season and we coped quite well without him. Ofcourse you will always miss a player of that class but Conte's system minimizes his loss pretty well. Jose teams struggle a lot more with the best attacker injured/off form because he put's heavy attacking burden on them, it's been a common theme through his career - Lampard, Sneijder, Ronaldo, Hazard and now Pogba (didn't see his Porto team enough but im guessing 'that' player for him then was Deco) he relies on the best player producing the goods and the others to be clever enough to play off him. Hazard not playing or being off form under Jose crippled us to the point we'd even struggle vs lower division sides, these days we do allright.

Now, don't mistake me here, im not saying that's a bad philosophy, it's clearly got a use as his trophy record demonstrates. Im just responding to your point that we would miss Hazard as much as you do Pogba.

Is that why we're above you throughout this season from start even during the time of Pogba's absence ?

 

[Dobbs]

They have spent more than what they were spending before though. Your point holds no weight if you are just going to say they have not spent the same as City and United, because the other teams have never done so.

You're not getting it. Yes we've always spent more than for example Arsenal. Yes we've always spent a good amount.

BUT for the last few years we've spent such a vast amount that it's uuprecedented. That gap between us and Arsenal has got even bigger.

As such so should our points tally. Same goes for City.

You can only get 3 points per game, maybe in 10 years a team will get over 114 points because we all know more spending means more points

Man City have dropped 2 points after 17 games, there is literally only one other set of results that will be better than that. I wonder how much money theyll have to spend next year to win 17 out of 17 games

You should quickly get in touch with United and City and tell them your theory that transfer spend and points have no relation. They obviously don't know this because both are spending a shit load. Let PSG, Barca and Madrid know as well.

 

[haram]

You're not getting it. Yes we've always spent more than for example Arsenal. Yes we've always spent a good amount.

BUT for the last few years we've spent such a vast amount that it's uuprecedented. That gap between us and Arsenal has got even bigger.

As such so should our points tally. Same goes for City.




You should quickly get in touch with United and City and tell them your theory that transfer spend and points have no relation. They obviously don't know this because both are spending a shit load. Let PSG, Barca and Madrid know as well.

Arsenal haven't spent money in 10 years. Crystal Palace signing players like Benteke for 30 million was also unprecedented. The fact is everyone has upped their spending relative to their level. Us signing Pogba for £90 million is not crazier than Everton signing Sigurdsson for 45 million.

 

[haram]

Hazard was injured at the start of the season and we coped quite well without him. Ofcourse you will always miss a player of that class but Conte's system minimizes his loss pretty well. Jose teams struggle a lot more with the best attacker injured/off form because he put's heavy attacking burden on them, it's been a common theme through his career - Lampard, Sneijder, Ronaldo, Hazard and now Pogba (didn't see his Porto team enough but im guessing 'that' player for him then was Deco) he relies on the best player producing the goods and the others to be clever enough to play off him. Hazard not playing or being off form under Jose crippled us to the point we'd even struggle vs lower division sides, these days we do allright.

Now, don't mistake me here, im not saying that's a bad philosophy, it's clearly got a use as his trophy record demonstrates. Im just responding to your point that we would miss Hazard as much as you do Pogba.

We're above you though. What big games did Hazard miss? How many games did he miss?

I can take your point about the level of performance, but we were talking about points total. How bad can we be if Pogba has been out for over two months, missing big games against pool, chelsea, spurs and city, and we are still above everyone else.

 

[breakout67]

Is that why we're above you throughout this season from start even during the time of Pogba's absence ?

He's just making stuff up to suit a narrative. This notion that Jose Mourinho teams are reliant on one player is absolute nonsense. Mourinho teams are known for having multiple goal scorers, his management style puts a heavy emphasis on team moral and sacrificing for the team, he coaches his teams to defend and attack as a unit.

One moment he'll be talking about how Mourinho forces an attacker to defend, the next moment he'll say he relies on this same attacker too much for goals. The two are contradictory, but they suit a narrative so he'll hold the cognitive dissonance in his head.

 

[Dancfc]

We're above you though. What big games did Hazard miss? How many games did he miss?

He missed the first four league games which we won 3 vs Spurs, Leicester and Everton and lost 1, even the one we lost we cut open Burnley at will. He then came off the bench vs Qarabag, Arsenal and Stoke, two of which were won before he even came on, although we could have done with him vs Arsenal. He started games again from Leti away onwards.

I can take your point about the level of performance, but we were talking about points total. How bad can we be if Pogba has been out for over two months, missing big games against pool, chelsea, spurs and city, and we are still above everyone else.

Fair enough.

He's just making stuff up to suit a narrative. This notion that Jose Mourinho teams are reliant on one player is absolute nonsense. Mourinho teams are known for having multiple goal scorers, his management style puts a heavy emphasis on team moral and sacrificing for the team, he coaches his teams to defend and attack as a unit.

One moment he'll be talking about how Mourinho forces an attacker to defend, the next moment he'll say he relies on this same attacker too much for goals. The two are contradictory, but they suit a narrative so he'll hold the cognitive dissonance in his head.

Wow, someone's got out on the wrong side of bed. There's no narrative here, i have had 6 years of Jose as a manager all in all, so im in a good position to comment, funnily enough your defensive response was similar to some of our lot in 2013 when Real fans posted the exact same thing. We had serious problems vs deep defenses under Jose, i lost count of the amount of times what looked a promosing attack ended up back at JT or Cahill, we were relying on individual brilliance of Hazard in those games and look at what happened when he lost form. Even back it 2005 it was an issue for him, that season we drew 4 home games vs teams we should be beating plus more 1-0 grinds were we converted through a moment of brilliance or opposition mistake.

He relies on his best attacking player more than most, that is undeniable. If your performances without Pogba isn't evident enough, check ours without Hazard under him, out of the top manager's only Simeone relies on individual brilliance and opposition cock up's as heavily. Under Ancelotti Drogba was our best player, but without him we were still fluent and won almost every game without him, under Conte we have played quite well and won most games without Hazard. Jose without Lampard then Hazard, we basically lost the player that made us tick and kept the fluency. To be fair we actually coped quite well if we lost any other player (even Cech and Terry first time and Costa and Cesc second time) but take Lampard or Hazard out (or they don't play well) and things didn't look great.

 

[Stacks]

We came 4th in a season we had no European competition to play, do you seriously believe that was good ? When Liverpool had no European competition they fought for the title and finished second, and when Chelsea had no European competition they walked the league, but when we had no European competition we scrapped 4th place. If anything that was a massive underachievement.
Liverpool had no Europe last season, finished 4th. They have Europe and are virtually in the same race.
Then next season came and all big teams had a shocker, Chelsea fall apart with Mourinho problems, Liverpool got their manager sacked earlier during the season and City players threw the towel after Pep announcement, but we went on and got 66 points only in the league!
Arsenal only got 71 and Spurs only 70 points in the league. They are big teams and had none of the catastrophic conditions you highlighted for others. Perhaps it was just hard that year and many sides needed to improve? Chelsea only amassed 6 points more than Leicester when they won it so Leicester actually did really well. you need to put each season in isolation buddy.
The only reason we finished 5th this season was because of the shocking form other teams had. If you want an evidence, then Mourinho last season got 69 points, 3 more than LVG's last season and we didn't move from 6th the whole season. LVG got 70 and 66 points in his both seasons, both wouldn't have been enough to finish even 5th last season.
Again I don't buy this. Its all relative to the season they play in. We were the 5th best side. The table should never lie.
During LVG last season we had a run of 6 successive games in the league without a single win, grabbing only 3 points out of 18, however we stayed 5th during this period. Can you seriously believe if we go on a similar run this season we would be anywhere higher than 7th in the league ? That's how shite this season was.

With the millions invested since LVG left, most sides have improved enough that we would most likely be left behind.

 

[el3mel]

With the millions invested since LVG left, most sides have improved enough that we would most likely be left behind.

So your point is since all teams were shite at this time there was no problem for us to be as shite as them ? Since when that has been our way of thinking ? If the other teams are shite we should take advantage of this like SAF last season when he walked the league without any competition.

Sorry but you keeping saying we were the 5th best team and we were doing fine while challenging for 4th and 5th is the kind of mentality that brought Arsenal and Liverpool down hell.

Tell me one season of the premier league in which the 66 points we got in LVG's last season will be enough to finish 4th ?

 

[dichinero]

He missed the first four league games which we won 3 vs Spurs, Leicester and Everton and lost 1, even the one we lost we cut open Burnley at will. He then came off the bench vs Qarabag, Arsenal and Stoke, two of which were won before he even came on, although we could have done with him vs Arsenal. He started games again from Leti away onwards.


Fair enough.



Wow, someone's got out on the wrong side of bed. There's no narrative here, i have had 6 years of Jose as a manager all in all, so im in a good position to comment, funnily enough your defensive response was similar to some of our lot in 2013 when Real fans posted the exact same thing. We had serious problems vs deep defenses under Jose, i lost count of the amount of times what looked a promosing attack ended up back at JT or Cahill, we were relying on individual brilliance of Hazard in those games and look at what happened when he lost form. Even back it 2005 it was an issue for him, that season we drew 4 home games vs teams we should be beating plus more 1-0 grinds were we converted through a moment of brilliance or opposition mistake.

He relies on his best attacking player more than most, that is undeniable. If your performances without Pogba isn't evident enough, check ours without Hazard under him, out of the top manager's only Simeone relies on individual brilliance and opposition cock up's as heavily. Under Ancelotti Drogba was our best player, but without him we were still fluent and won almost every game without him, under Conte we have played quite well and won most games without Hazard. Jose without Lampard then Hazard, we basically lost the player that made us tick and kept the fluency. To be fair we actually coped quite well if we lost any other player (even Cech and Terry first time and Costa and Cesc second time) but take Lampard or Hazard out (or they don't play well) and things didn't look great.

Thanks for that clarity

 

[AshRK]

I read it clearly and I know that they've won 16/17 but at some point we going to stop looking at to blame them for where we are and maybe just look at ourselves, right?

Surely we went into this season being responsible for what we do and not trying to rely on what other clubs do which seems be a thing now. Leave City alone to do what they are doing for a second, and consider that we are as close to 8th as we are to them, and that it's more likely for us to be caught than to catch. We only gave City 3 points because they have spent trillions, compared to the teams beneath us, should we not be pulling away better than we are currently doing?

Isnt that what most fans are doing by saying we have made considerable progress which is a truth but the problem is the hatred for jose is too big for some that it is clouding your judgement. You act as if fans are here celebrating us being in second, no one is extremely happy with that. Tell me when was the last time we were constantly in second place for such a long period. Not anytime after sir alex retired. Again nothing to celebrate and we all are pissed we are not 1st but we cannot downplay our own progress. Did you seriously expect us to win the title season because I for one did not.

What city are doing is something extremely rare, which may never be replicated. 49 points out of 51 will not be repeated by any team including city. All we can look at is our own progress and hope to keep on improving. I don't know about you but if come may 2018 we finish with 85 odd points and finish 2nd scoring 75 plus goals, I would be happy with the progress, again nothing to celebrate but will be happy with what we have achieved especially after 70 points being the highest we achieved since sir alex retired.

 

[AshRK]

Do you not understand that 38 points is not a bad points total? What the hell do you want me to say? Removing City and looking at ourselves, we STILL have a good points total and we are still ahead of everybody else. What would Chelsea's and Liverpool's points total be if Hazard and Salah were out for two months like Pogba was?

Its funny how people conveniently fail to mention how we have been missing pogba for major chunk of the season. He is our engine and without him sadly we look lost.

 

[Minimalist]

Its funny how people conveniently fail to mention how we have been missing pogba for major chunk of the season. He is our engine and without him sadly we look lost.

I think people do accept this, some simply see this as poor preparation to not have someone who can do a similar job to Pogba (not the same quality but the job itself). People keep saying ‘well someone like Pogba won’t sit on the bench’. We don’t need a Pogba to link midfield to attack - it’s poor that we can’t do it without him (rather than us just throwing our hands up and declaring what a great player he is).

There’s bound to be a midfielder (young, learning) that can be his adequate backup.

So yes, it’s an excuse to an extent but it’s not the full picture.

 

[roonster09]

I read it clearly and I know that they've won 16/17 but at some point we going to stop looking at to blame them for where we are and maybe just look at ourselves, right?

Surely we went into this season being responsible for what we do and not trying to rely on what other clubs do which seems be a thing now. Leave City alone to do what they are doing for a second, and consider that we are as close to 8th as we are to them, and that it's more likely for us to be caught than to catch. We only gave City 3 points because they have spent trillions, compared to the teams beneath us, should we not be pulling away better than we are currently doing?

Serious question, do you think Jose did anything right in his ManUtd career? Have to ever posted even a single positive post on Jose?

Re this post, whether we win the league or not, there is a clear progress this season. Do you even deny that?

 

[Dobbs]

And then you have yourself and @Dobbs somehow arguing that this sort of start to a season is the norm which it fecking isn't. This is the best start to any PL campaign yet neither of you seem to understand the definition of "normal". Here let me help you both:

norm
nɔːm/
noun

1. 1.
   something that is usual, typical, or standard.
   "strikes were the norm"
   synonyms: standard, usual, normal, typical, average, the rule, predictable, unexceptional, par for the course, what one would expect, expected, (only) to be expected
   "child protection teams are now the norm in local authorities"

Lets help you further:

After game week 17:
09/10: Chelsea 1st @ 40 points
10/11: United 1st @ 34 points
11/12: City 1st @ 44 points
12/13: United 1st @ 42 points
13/14: Liverpool 1st @ 36 points
14/15: Chelsea 1st @ 42 points
15/16: Leicester 1st @ 38 points
16/17: Chelsea 1st @ 43 points

Liar liar pants on fire.

I never claimed it was the norm in comparison to past seasons, as you well know from our last exchange. Here you go:

It's the new norm.

Spending that amount of money and amassing that kind of talent wasn't normal. It is now.

Yeah if the sample size is the last 4 months, it is the norm. Can you point out a season when its happened before?

No, that's why I said it's the new norm.

​

As you can see and in fact already know I never characterised City's start as something we normally see. I clearly described it as the "new norm." Describing this start as something we'll have to get used to going forward.

Hey you're defending Mourinho(even though I'm not criticism him here) so I expect my posts to be twisted. That shouldn't stop you apologising for deliberately misinterpreting my posts though.