Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Stacks]

I agree with the majority of this, and I've definitely acknowledged what Mourinho has done up until now elsewhere. Disagree on LvG leaving us in a mess, as he did leave the foundation of a good side with loads of promising young players and was the reason we have our 2 most promising players right now with Martial and Rashford. His football was beyond boring and the league results in the 2nd season were shit with all the draws, but he wasn't a disaster and definitely helped steady the ship and get us on the right track in a lot of ways. Definitely had to go though.

Mourinho in his 1.5 seasons has done close to what I've expected from him, in that he turned us back into a big side which is where we belong, especially with the spending power he has. My issue with him and why I'm not super optimistic about his long term future is that given almost endless spending power, hes chosen to build a team that stifles rather then dominates and ignored some quality players in favor of physical players who aren't working out. You look at the teams with the biggest spending powers in their league's, who don't have to worry about finding bargains and all that - Bayern in Germany, PSG in France, barca and Real Madrid in Spain, City and United in England. Italy is a weird one where none of them really have that spending power consistently so I'll leave them out. But of that list, they all play a very similar style. They attack against pretty much everyone, always look to dominate games and impose themselves on the opposition, because they have the endless funds to build a dominant team so they believe they can build a better team then the others. All of them, except United, because Mourinho has chosen the approach that someone like Simeone has done at Atletico, to build a defensive monster to shut down barca and madrid in order to compete with them since he can't normally with a big mismatch in funds available. That's the main issue. His ambition despite unlimited funds almost was only to be a team that stifles and not one that dominates in the biggest of games.

And then leading off that issue, Ok, Mourinho is who he is. Then build towards that, but players that can be that great team at shutting teams out, soaking up pressure and then counter attacking devastatingly. You know what we are in big games though? We can't soak up any bit of pressure without leaking chances, and our counter attacking game is mostly shit. He bought a striker that isnt suited to that style since he has no hold up play and sucks in the air so cant bring down long balls, he didnt even go for a right winger yet to actually have someone on the right who can counter attack effectively, up u til recently he kept our best runner with the ball (martial) out of the side for too long, nd those players are very necessary to counter attack properly, and then in midfield, he's playing Pogba in a 2 meaning that he's either restricting pogba in the big games by not freeing him up, or leaving our midfield too easily overrun by having Matic the only one to cover for Pogba when he tries to counter attack since we can't hold the ball without him or martial.

So basically - I dont think that Mourinho was ambitious enough, starting from a clean slate in the side he could build and it'll keep us firmly below the top tier of sides like psg, city, madrid, Bayern and barca. Of course we can cause upsets, and maybe even win the big trophies. But the difference is we'll always be the underdogs for that, when really our spending could have seen us been one of the favourites.
And then 2, if he really wants that defensive monster, his signings haven't reflected that at all.

I think people are hoping for a repeat of Inter Milan, as they see it as some anti Pep, but the truth is it was one tie and hardly a dynasty or blueprint to overcome Peps sides long term. I agree Jose is what he is, but I was hoping for something like his 1st Chelsea team. That was a Jauggernaught and would beat this City side to the title (amassed 95 points). for some reason he prefers 4-2-3-1 when I would love a powerful but technical 4-3-3 but oh well.

 

[Raees]

@bosnian_red cracking series of posts mate.. agree with every word

 

[Kapardin]

I agree with the majority of this, and I've definitely acknowledged what Mourinho has done up until now elsewhere. Disagree on LvG leaving us in a mess, as he did leave the foundation of a good side with loads of promising young players and was the reason we have our 2 most promising players right now with Martial and Rashford. His football was beyond boring and the league results in the 2nd season were shit with all the draws, but he wasn't a disaster and definitely helped steady the ship and get us on the right track in a lot of ways. Definitely had to go though.

What foundations? I'll give you Martial, LW is settled for the future if he comes good. But Rashford is nowhere near the level that United require yet. Unlike Martial, he doesn't appear to be one of those world class potential that you can be fairly confident of improving to that level. At this point, he is at a crossroads in his career, he could drastically improve and become Harry Kane-ish, or he could just be another Welbeck. Either way, he is not someone we can be reliant on, like Martial, so it is no foundation.

Rojo perhaps was a decent LvG buy. But besides that, the "foundation" he left was Depay, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Darmian, Shaw, Herrera and Blind - players that Jose either cleared out or will clear out in the future. From the SAF era we have two aging wingers as FBs and Jones/Smalling who are good enough squad players, but they are no products of van Gaal's "foundations".

He did as bad a job as Moyes bar the FA Cup, which elevates him marginally. He destroyed our team, our mentality and our interest in football for a brief period.

Real "foundations" would be the team Jose left for Conte at Chelsea. Some flaws, but the quality of Matic, Fabregas, Costa, etc who formed the core of a title winning squad, and most of whom were again instrumental in Conte winning the league (though of course, credit to Conte for improving and building on that - I am not saying Jose is responsible for their win). LvG did not leave a single player of that quality for Jose bar Martial perhaps, and even sold the only player who could have been at that level - di Maria.

So basically - I dont think that Mourinho was ambitious enough, starting from a clean slate in the side he could build and it'll keep us firmly below the top tier of sides like psg, city, madrid, Bayern and barca. Of course we can cause upsets, and maybe even win the big trophies. But the difference is we'll always be the underdogs for that, when really our spending could have seen us been one of the favourites.
And then 2, if he really wants that defensive monster, his signings haven't reflected that at all.

Agree with this. I expected him to have a mass clearout followed by class signings like Pep did, but Jose seems to have tempered his own expectations. And while I absolutely adore Zlatan, Jose should have gotten another younger striker in his first season with us itself, considering Zlatan was a short term solution. Since he didn't do that, he had no choice but to choose the best out of a rather poor crop of strikers available in the market this summer.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I think people are hoping for a repeat of Inter Milan, as they see it as some anti Pep, but the truth is it was one tie and hardly a dynasty or blueprint to overcome Peps sides long term. I agree Jose is what he is, but I was hoping for something like his 1st Chelsea team. That was a Jauggernaught and would beat this City side to the title (amassed 95 points). for some reason he prefers 4-2-3-1 when I would love a powerful but technical 4-3-3 but oh well.

You don't go from where we were in 2016 to Chelsea of 2004-06 in 2 seasons. Therein lies the issue with fans like yourself and @bosnian_red. There's been a steady improvement over the last 18 months and for whatever reason, you guys already seem to think that the end result will be nothing but failure.

As for the 4-3-3, we've not had the opportunity to play this in anyone of the big games, this season. If we had all our midfielders fit and not playing like complete shit in Herrera's case, we'd have seen a different set of performances and results in all these matches.

 

[VorZakone]

Wasn't the City game sort of reminiscent of the SuperCup against Real Madrid? Sit deep, concede, only then United tried to play some proper football.

 

[Son Of Sam]

I believe it is the style of the manager. Spur and Liverpool have much much less wage and transfer budget than United but they are playing attacking football. I don't think anyone should be surprised by Jose's style of football given his track record.

How ironic that these 2 clubs you mentioned have not won a spoon in 10 years?

 

[dichinero]

@bosnian_red cracking series of posts mate.. agree with every word

Second that

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I agree with the majority of this, and I've definitely acknowledged what Mourinho has done up until now elsewhere. Disagree on LvG leaving us in a mess, as he did leave the foundation of a good side with loads of promising young players and was the reason we have our 2 most promising players right now with Martial and Rashford. His football was beyond boring and the league results in the 2nd season were shit with all the draws, but he wasn't a disaster and definitely helped steady the ship and get us on the right track in a lot of ways. Definitely had to go though.

Mourinho in his 1.5 seasons has done close to what I've expected from him, in that he turned us back into a big side which is where we belong, especially with the spending power he has. My issue with him and why I'm not super optimistic about his long term future is that given almost endless spending power, hes chosen to build a team that stifles rather then dominates and ignored some quality players in favor of physical players who aren't working out. You look at the teams with the biggest spending powers in their league's, who don't have to worry about finding bargains and all that - Bayern in Germany, PSG in France, barca and Real Madrid in Spain, City and United in England. Italy is a weird one where none of them really have that spending power consistently so I'll leave them out. But of that list, they all play a very similar style. They attack against pretty much everyone, always look to dominate games and impose themselves on the opposition, because they have the endless funds to build a dominant team so they believe they can build a better team then the others. All of them, except United, because Mourinho has chosen the approach that someone like Simeone has done at Atletico, to build a defensive monster to shut down barca and madrid in order to compete with them since he can't normally with a big mismatch in funds available. That's the main issue. His ambition despite unlimited funds almost was only to be a team that stifles and not one that dominates in the biggest of games.

And then leading off that issue, Ok, Mourinho is who he is. Then build towards that, but players that can be that great team at shutting teams out, soaking up pressure and then counter attacking devastatingly. You know what we are in big games though? We can't soak up any bit of pressure without leaking chances, and our counter attacking game is mostly shit. He bought a striker that isnt suited to that style since he has no hold up play and sucks in the air so cant bring down long balls, he didnt even go for a right winger yet to actually have someone on the right who can counter attack effectively, up u til recently he kept our best runner with the ball (martial) out of the side for too long, nd those players are very necessary to counter attack properly, and then in midfield, he's playing Pogba in a 2 meaning that he's either restricting pogba in the big games by not freeing him up, or leaving our midfield too easily overrun by having Matic the only one to cover for Pogba when he tries to counter attack since we can't hold the ball without him or martial.

So basically - I dont think that Mourinho was ambitious enough, starting from a clean slate in the side he could build and it'll keep us firmly below the top tier of sides like psg, city, madrid, Bayern and barca. Of course we can cause upsets, and maybe even win the big trophies. But the difference is we'll always be the underdogs for that, when really our spending could have seen us been one of the favourites.
And then 2, if he really wants that defensive monster, his signings haven't reflected that at all.

If LvG left after his first season, I'd have said he was a wonderful manager, got us back into the CL and left us with some decent foundations to build upon into the future. But that second season highlighted just how bad his reign was. The key players in his firsts season included just two of his signings with the rest being Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Young, Fellaini, Carrick, Mata and Rooney i.e. none of his signings. I really don't want to go too much into his second season but it was nothing but a failure - credit for purchasing Martial and accidentally identifying Rashford but there were no foundations. We were nothing but a disjointed, one-dimensional, clueless, possession-based, defensive team. And if you want to include his good signings, you've got consider how many complete and utter flops he recruited. To add salt to this particular wound, he got rid of a few players who could, to this day, have been very useful.

To conclude, LvG was nothing but a failure and set us back further.

 

[Stacks]

You don't go from where we were in 2016 to Chelsea of 2004-06 in 2 seasons. Therein lies the issue with fans like yourself and @bosnian_red. There's been a steady improvement over the last 18 months and for whatever reason, you guys already seem to think that the end result will be nothing but failure.

As for the 4-3-3, we've not had the opportunity to play this in anyone of the big games, this season. If we had all our midfielders fit and not playing like complete shit in Herrera's case, we'd have seen a different set of performances and results in all these matches.

you can with investment. Chelsea went from 4th in 2003, 2nd 2004 to 1st with 95 points in 2005. we went from joint 4th 2016, 6th 2017 to 2nd in 2018 (with investment). I don't see the issue.

I agree with the lack of midfielders in big games. Its actually a joke that Pogba has missed virtually all our big games. proper bad luck

 

[Di Maria's angel]

you can with investment. Chelsea went from 4th in 2003, 2nd 2004 to 1st with 95 points in 2005. we went from joint 4th 2016, 6th 2017 to 2nd in 2018 (with investment). I don't see the issue.

I agree with the lack of midfielders in big games. Its actually a joke that Pogba has missed virtually all our big games. proper bad luck

Chelsea had a few years of stability prior to 2003, we didn't and that's the fundamental difference. However, I don't think we're far from actually winning the league - and to be fair, we'd be closer if City weren't have this complete freak of a PL season.

 

[meninred]

Though not a big fan of stats..I think we should look more on performance and stats than results to have more realistic chance of assessing the team. City's game did not show anything less of Manutd. They played as they always do.
Result was determined with three sloppy goals by defenders mistakes (not coaches) that could be avoided. In terms of chances created we had at least three goal scoring chances while they had one or two.
Ball possession was the main difference.(Since city plays possession based football it is unsurprising.) This is to say that there is no gulf in class as sometimes presented but different style. True they have some more better players.
In city's game I couldn't find major fault on Mouriniho himself except the fact that he asks too much of his strikers to defend and that puts pressure on them to make mistakes. e.g. Lukaku was involved on both goals we conceded.
( Even though i understand his concern not to conceded goals).Martial and Rashford also look uncomfortable tracking back frequently. So long as Mouriniho is here this is the type of football we gonna get.

 

[dichinero]

Though not a big fan of stats..I think we should look more on performance and stats than results to have more realistic chance of assessing the team. City's game did not show anything less of Manutd. They played as they always do.
Result was determined with three sloppy goals by defenders mistakes (not coaches) that could be avoided. In terms of chances created we had at least three goal scoring chances while they had one or two.
Ball possession was the main difference.(Since city plays possession based football it is unsurprising.) This is to say that there is no gulf in class as sometimes presented but different style. True they have some more better players.
In city's game I couldn't find major fault on Mouriniho himself except the fact that he asks too much of his strikers to defend and that puts pressure on them to make mistakes. e.g. Lukaku was involved on both goals we conceded.
( Even though i understand his concern not to conceded goals).Martial and Rashford also look uncomfortable tracking back frequently. So long as Mouriniho is here this is the type of football we gonna get.

Mate, if we scrutinise every goal in football, there is a degree of an avoidable sloppiness somehow, somewhere. While I agree that City were not mind blowingly amazing but in the day they were by far the better side and deserved to win.

 

[Siorac]

You don't go from where we were in 2016 to Chelsea of 2004-06 in 2 seasons. Therein lies the issue with fans like yourself and @bosnian_red. There's been a steady improvement over the last 18 months and for whatever reason, you guys already seem to think that the end result will be nothing but failure.

As for the 4-3-3, we've not had the opportunity to play this in anyone of the big games, this season. If we had all our midfielders fit and not playing like complete shit in Herrera's case, we'd have seen a different set of performances and results in all these matches.

Well, Chelsea did exactly that. Finished sixth in 2002, fourth in 2003 (with 67 points; we had 69 last season). Then in 2005 they won the league with 95 points.

 

[bosnian_red]

If LvG left after his first season, I'd have said he was a wonderful manager, got us back into the CL and left us with some decent foundations to build upon into the future. But that second season highlighted just how bad his reign was. The key players in his firsts season included just two of his signings with the rest being Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Young, Fellaini, Carrick, Mata and Rooney i.e. none of his signings. I really don't want to go too much into his second season but it was nothing but a failure - credit for purchasing Martial and accidentally identifying Rashford but there were no foundations. We were nothing but a disjointed, one-dimensional, clueless, possession-based, defensive team. And if you want to include his good signings, you've got consider how many complete and utter flops he recruited. To add salt to this particular wound, he got rid of a few players who could, to this day, have been very useful.

To conclude, LvG was nothing but a failure and set us back further.

Nah it's not a complete failure. We had an excellent record in big games under him which gave some good memories (our best performance at Anfield that I ever remember where Mata scored twice, beating Liverpool at home 3-0 and 3-1, beating Klopp at Anfield, and then beating City away with Rashford or the 4-2 games vs City where it could've been even more as we hammered them in particular stand out). Small games were the most forgettable football games ever of course, so we couldn't wait to get rid, but there were plenty of good moments. Top 4 in the first season which was just about as expected, second season missed out on goal difference to City, but won the FA Cup for the first time in ages which was a great moment for us. And I wouldn't downplay him bringing in Martial and implementing Rashford. It's not an accident, Van Gaal has trusted youth wherever he's been and no other manager would have trusted Rashford like he did. So overall in 2 seasons I'd say his appointment was mostly positive, since we kept De Gea, have 2 of the most promising young players in the world now, won a trophy, but also had plenty of very good and memorable big games which was especially important as it was in those games where Moyes got hammered in. Not fair to say he set us back even further, we did play boring as feck football but it's not like he ruined the squad and made it horrendously unbalanced. He got rid of quite a bit of deadwood, made it a very small squad but pretty well balanced wise in terms of players per position (remember when we had an overload of #10's?). Also was a very young squad, so it was a nice squad for the next manager to shape how they wanted.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Well, Chelsea did exactly that. Finished sixth in 2002, fourth in 2003 (with 67 points; we had 69 last season). Then in 2005 they won the league with 95 points.

Chelsea went from 6th, 6th, 4th, 2nd to 1st (Mourinho). That's a steady improvement and lets not forget that they had unlimited funds during a time no one could match them financially.

We've gone from 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th to 2nd. We've been up and down, had three managers and are not even the 2nd richest team in the league.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Wow... our best start in fecking years and he's apparently not the man for the job.

Who is then? SAF is retired.

 

[MJJ]

You don't go from where we were in 2016 to Chelsea of 2004-06 in 2 seasons. Therein lies the issue with fans like yourself and @bosnian_red. There's been a steady improvement over the last 18 months and for whatever reason, you guys already seem to think that the end result will be nothing but failure.

As for the 4-3-3, we've not had the opportunity to play this in anyone of the big games, this season. If we had all our midfielders fit and not playing like complete shit in Herrera's case, we'd have seen a different set of performances and results in all these matches.

Chelsea 2002-03, position-4th
Chelsea 2003-04, position-2nd
Chelsea 2004-05- position-1st.

or if you want to look at it in another way, ambromovich took over chelsea in 2003.

 

[haram]

Van Gaal did leave us in a mess. The Rooney situation. He wasted money on di Maria, Depay, Schneiderlin, BS. Players turned knto zombies. Rashford was a total fluke, everyone was injured including Will Keane.

The gap is because of Pogba's absence, which wasn't helped by the fact that Fellaini was also missing. Also, City have won 14 games in a fecking row.

If we had attacked City and Liverpool we would have been in a worse position than we are in now. When the team is ready we can express ourselves more. Just be patient.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Van Gaal did leave us in a mess. The Rooney situation. He wasted money on di Maria, Depay, Schneiderlin, BS. Players turned knto zombies. Rashford was a total fluke, everyone was injured including Will Keane.

The gap is because of Pogba's absence, which wasn't helped by the fact that Fellaini was also missing. Also, City have won 14 games in a fecking row.

Van Gaal is just sticking the boot in. He should keep his trap shut though, his time here was nothing short of a joke.

 

[Siorac]

Chelsea went from 6th, 6th, 4th, 2nd to 1st (Mourinho). That's a steady improvement and lets not forget that they had unlimited funds during a time no one could match them financially.

We've gone from 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th to 2nd. We've been up and down, had three managers and are not even the 2nd richest team in the league.

Wait, what? This is next level stuff now. So it's not just City now!

Also, we could have matched Chelsea financially back then. Remember, that was before the Glazer takeover. United were a debt-free commercial juggernaut, regularly breaking the British transfer records. We just didn't buy very well in those years; also there was the Kenyon debacle.

 

[bosnian_red]

You don't go from where we were in 2016 to Chelsea of 2004-06 in 2 seasons. Therein lies the issue with fans like yourself and @bosnian_red. There's been a steady improvement over the last 18 months and for whatever reason, you guys already seem to think that the end result will be nothing but failure.

As for the 4-3-3, we've not had the opportunity to play this in anyone of the big games, this season. If we had all our midfielders fit and not playing like complete shit in Herrera's case, we'd have seen a different set of performances and results in all these matches.

I'm not saying it'll end in failure. I'm saying he hasn't been ambitious enough in the type of side he wanted to create given pretty much a clean slate and unlimited funds. Pep Guardiola started at pretty much the same point, and look at what his side is now and the side he wants to build. It's impossible not to compare them because United and City were level on points before they took over, both the same City, both had huge problems in the squad but the difference was that City had a bloated squad of old past it and average players but with 3 world class players in De Bruyne, Aguero and Silva (though aguero and Silva were always really injury prone). United had a pretty thin, young squad with players who had world class potential, a lot of solid players and then a world class goalkeeper. We needed an injection of world class quality which Mourinho I think saw and went for in the first summer with Pogba, Ibra and Mkhitaryan, and then Lukaku and Matic this summer. Pogba and Matic were very good signings, Ibra was great on a free but it was very much a stop gap signing and just put off the striker problem for 1 year. You look at who he could have signed but chose not to - Sane, Mane, Salah, Jesus (and loads more). All went for 30-35m each, all would walk into our team now and instantly solve problem positions. Instead he spent 75m on Lukaku ffs.

Yes, there has been steady improvement in our general team, but his approach in the players he wanted to sign and the vision he has for this team is pretty clear, and I don't think it was ambitious enough all things considered. You say he wants the Chelsea of 04-06, but I really don't see that from the players he's signed and how he sets us up in big games. The way they played in them and how Mourinho used to set up teams in big games is worlds away to how he's been setting his teams up over the last 2 years, and it's shown with his teams barely even creating chances or scoring in big games, resorting to hoofing all the time whenever we inevitably concede because we sit so deep, and generally having a small time approach to those games. Don't use the excuse that Pogba was out. Matic is a quality midfielder and Herrera was our player of the season last year. He's out of form, sure, but it doesn't mean that you can't trust your players to play any sort of decent football against any opponent. I just think in general that Mourinho has changed over the years, and not necessarily for the better and his signings have not shown a clear plan for where he wants the squad to go to (not to mention that I think someone like Lukaku is blatantly the wrong player to have and someone who could get in the way of the development of our most promising players because of his age and fee). I did think that we needed a striker, but you want someone who is a good all around player, so he can play alongside another striker like Rashford if needed, or in their prime now so that in 4 years or so Rashford could hopefully take over. Lukaku was just the wrong profile of player to have, because he's 24, meaning he'll be here probably for the next 5-6 years. In that time, one of Martial/Rashford will be the left winger, and the other will likely be a squad player at best or want to leave, because there is a less talented striker stuck in the striker spot because of his price tag. So yeah, his decision to sign Lukaku is a huge issue for me, especially when you consider we paid more then double what City/Liverpool paid for the 4 I mentioned earlier.

And a side note while we're on the subject. Give me a prime Fergie side, prime Guardiola side, over that Chelsea 04-06 side. Yeah it was defensively dominant, but it wasn't that exciting. That's why I wanted Mourinho to be more ambitious in his spell with United, as he can get his sides to play exciting football like Real Madrid did, but he just reverts to his comfort zone for big games which is parking the bus instead of thinking he can actually outplay the opponent.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Wait, what? This is next level stuff now. So it's not just City now!

Also, we could have matched Chelsea financially back then. Remember, that was before the Glazer takeover. United were a debt-free commercial juggernaut, regularly breaking the British transfer records. We just didn't buy very well in those years; also there was the Kenyon debacle.

You think we're richer than Chelsea?

 

[Siorac]

You think we're richer than Chelsea?

Higher revenue, higher wage bill, higher transfer spend (both net and absolute) in the last five years. So yes, we are.

This whole 'we are financially hamstrung' thing really has to stop now. It's really not a good look for Manchester fecking United, of all clubs.

 

[markorm]

We're not too far off from dominating games though.

With an in-form Mikhi, dominant Pogba, a quick established winger and an incisive striker in the mould of Morata, I think we would be blowing teams away. You could point to the summer and say he fecked up by not buying these types of players, but the squad has changed some since then, Rashford is maturing, Young is a solid wing back, Lingard is growing into the 10, Lukaku has dropped off the cliff, Mikhi has just gone and done one and Pogba injured/suspended. We've got the basis of a strong first team, but don't have the depth.

As an example, who do we have in the ACM position? Pogba, Lingard, Mikhi, Mata, Carrick. Take Pogba and Mikhi out of that and look what we have left, and without Pogba, we just simply don't work.

I think this is kind of a first seeason for Mourinho, given his current squad, he goes out to the market and underpins the squad he has and enhances it with wingers, We will dominate.


My main concern though is with Mourinho's head. The player fall out and the fracas at Chelsea seem to have broken him.

He could be cheaky and have a glint of the eye - press used to love to hate him but always was taken with a broad smile and a knowing wink. Lately he's turned into a grumpy, foul tempered, miserable old man who parades up and down the touch line in a near constant bad mood. His press conferences are cringeworthy, and he behaves like a sulky teenager at a dinner table.

I don't think we did that bad in the derby considering we were without the one man that makes the whole team work. They only had a couple more shots on target than us and ended up scoring from a ridiculously flukey opportunity. The last 15 mins we threw everything at them and a decent striker up front we would have been away.

It was a close game considering, so I don't think we should be too hasty with the sentiment, we're not far away, like with Ronaldo back in the day, we just need to keep our main man Pogba fit and on the field and allow the team to re-settle around him. Then Jan/Summer we seriously need to move away from a one-man team.

 

[bosnian_red]

What foundations? I'll give you Martial, LW is settled for the future if he comes good. But Rashford is nowhere near the level that United require yet. Unlike Martial, he doesn't appear to be one of those world class potential that you can be fairly confident of improving to that level. At this point, he is at a crossroads in his career, he could drastically improve and become Harry Kane-ish, or he could just be another Welbeck. Either way, he is not someone we can be reliant on, like Martial, so it is no foundation.

Rojo perhaps was a decent LvG buy. But besides that, the "foundation" he left was Depay, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Darmian, Shaw, Herrera and Blind - players that Jose either cleared out or will clear out in the future. From the SAF era we have two aging wingers as FBs and Jones/Smalling who are good enough squad players, but they are no products of van Gaal's "foundations".

He did as bad a job as Moyes bar the FA Cup, which elevates him marginally. He destroyed our team, our mentality and our interest in football for a brief period.

Real "foundations" would be the team Jose left for Conte at Chelsea. Some flaws, but the quality of Matic, Fabregas, Costa, etc who formed the core of a title winning squad, and most of whom were again instrumental in Conte winning the league (though of course, credit to Conte for improving and building on that - I am not saying Jose is responsible for their win). LvG did not leave a single player of that quality for Jose bar Martial perhaps, and even sold the only player who could have been at that level - di Maria.



Agree with this. I expected him to have a mass clearout followed by class signings like Pep did, but Jose seems to have tempered his own expectations. And while I absolutely adore Zlatan, Jose should have gotten another younger striker in his first season with us itself, considering Zlatan was a short term solution. Since he didn't do that, he had no choice but to choose the best out of a rather poor crop of strikers available in the market this summer.

He left a nicely balanced squad of players with some incredibly promising players. Also it was a small squad, meaning that 4-5 of the right signings and it could of brought everyone up a level into a very good team. It had it's weaknesses but this is what Mourinho took over:

GK: De Gea, Romero - Best goalkeeper and back up goalkeepers in the world

Fullbacks: Valencia, Darmian, Blind, Shaw, Young (now) TFM- Valencia has been an excellent right back, Darmian is a decent squad player and can cover both sides (you need those, but obviously not starter), Blind in the right system is an excellent player and was a very important player last season and one of our MOTM's against Ajax in the Europa League final, Shaw is a flop because of attitude, Young is one of our most important players now. Fosu mensah still a youngster
CB: Jones, Smalling, Rojo - All have been very important at times under Mourinho, Rojo when fit is probably first choice, all have injury problems. Can't really blame LvG on this as Mourinho has definitely liked them too, same with Fergie before.

CM: Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Pereira - Carrick is old now, Schneiderlin and Schweiny big flops. Herrera was our player of the season last year, Fellaini is important for Mourinho though most fans I think would still want to get rid in an ideal world. Pereira youngster.

Wingers/forwards: Martial, Rashford, Mata, Lingard, Rooney, Memphis - Rooney and Memphis deadwood, both got rid of, lingard a useful squad player, mata can be quality in the right system, martial and rashford 2 of the most promising youngsters in the world.

So overall, Shaw, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Rooney and Memphis were definitely deadwood. 4 of those are gone, and the other one is still seen to have big potential if he ever gets his shit together. Young, Lingard, Darmian, Blind, Fellaini, Jones/Smalling and Mata have all been very useful at different times for Mourinho, but you could say that one of Jones/smalling should be cut, as should darmian probably. But it's not like they're useless players.

All in all, it definitely wasn't some huge bloated squad that needed a feck ton of work. It lacked in having star players, and Mourinho knew that, so he brought in Pogba, Ibra and Miki (and Bailly since our center backs were lacking someone reliable). But it was a small squad that didn't need too much trimming but mostly bringing in the right players. Change Mkhitaryan for Sane/Mane/Salah and our right wing is sorted. Change Lukaku this summer for Jesus for example (or Icardi even) and our striker is sorted. Bring in Mendy at left back instead of ignoring a clear problem position and our left back is sorted. We had plenty of good depth and backup players, and some good starting players, we've just mostly gone after the wrong players apart from Pogba, Matic and Bailly who has been unfortunate with injuries.

You say Mourinho left foundations, but I definitely think a close to ideal situation for a manager to come in and build the type of side he wants is what we had. A pretty small squad, some incredibly promising youngsters, you can get rid of a few that you don't need, a world class goalkeeper, and then bring in like 5 players that you really want to play in your way to turn it into a top squad. Looking at those players, a top class striker, right winger, center back, left back and center mid would've gone a long way. And Mourinho tried to do that apart from left back. Just they haven't quite worked out whether it's cause of injuries, or the wrong players (lukaku, mkhitaryan, ibra only being a 1 year solution).

 

[Kapardin]

He left a nicely balanced squad of players with some incredibly promising players. Also it was a small squad, meaning that 4-5 of the right signings and it could of brought everyone up a level into a very good team. It had it's weaknesses but this is what Mourinho took over:

Firstly, if we needed 4-5 signings, which is easier said than done in this market, it isn't a very good squad. Especially if those signings are required in key positions like midfield and forward positions, as opposed to CBs and FBs who are cheaper or easier to make do with average quality if we have a good system. Seriously, finding a CF, CM and RW who are like Pogba, Salah and Harry Kane in quality (the level we need) all in one window is no easy task.

GK: De Gea, Romero - Best goalkeeper and back up goalkeepers in the world

Why include players he didn't sign? De Gea was trying to leave anyway, partly accelerated by LvG's eccentricities and it was a freak accident that he stayed. Romero is good, but a back-up GK hardly contributes to "foundations".

Fullbacks: Valencia, Darmian, Blind, Shaw, Young (now) TFM- Valencia has been an excellent right back, Darmian is a decent squad player and can cover both sides (you need those, but obviously not starter), Blind in the right system is an excellent player and was a very important player last season and one of our MOTM's against Ajax in the Europa League final, Shaw is a flop because of attitude, Young is one of our most important players now. Fosu mensah still a youngster

Valencia is average and aging, as is Young. Neither of them are van Gaal signings, so again it makes no sense to say he left them behind. And if we got actual FBs, you would see what an upgrade they are on Young or Valencia, Young's purple patch not withstanding.

The others are all crap. Ajax were a below average team and Blind being MOTM has nothing to do with him actually being any good or better than a squad player. If Shaw's attitude was bad, van Gaal should have scouted him properly before signing him. Fosu Mensah is unproven and so cannot be a "foundation" as he is not a regular starter.

CB: Jones, Smalling, Rojo - All have been very important at times under Mourinho, Rojo when fit is probably first choice, all have injury problems. Can't really blame LvG on this as Mourinho has definitely liked them too, same with Fergie before.

Give you Rojo, but neither Jones or Smalling were van Gaal signings, so again, this is not "foundation". Neither did van Gaal improve them, they have been as solid or shaky as ever alternately.

CM: Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Pereira - Carrick is old now, Schneiderlin and Schweiny big flops. Herrera was our player of the season last year, Fellaini is important for Mourinho though most fans I think would still want to get rid in an ideal world. Pereira youngster.

All those CMs are not good enough for a team challenging for the top. I like Fellaini as a squad player, but the others are of no use at all. Carrick is past it, and the same goes for Schweinsteiger who should never have been signed. So basically, van Gaal left no midfield at all for Mourinho.

Herrera was average last year, but it has been exaggerated. That debate is done to death.

Wingers/forwards: Martial, Rashford, Mata, Lingard, Rooney, Memphis - Rooney and Memphis deadwood, both got rid of, lingard a useful squad player, mata can be quality in the right system, martial and rashford 2 of the most promising youngsters in the world.

Apart from Martial, none of those players are capable of playing week in and week out for a team challenging for the top. I already clarified that Rashford is no "foundation" as he has a lot to prove.

So overall, Shaw, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Rooney and Memphis were definitely deadwood. 4 of those are gone, and the other one is still seen to have big potential if he ever gets his shit together. Young, Lingard, Darmian, Blind, Fellaini, Jones/Smalling and Mata have all been very useful at different times for Mourinho, but you could say that one of Jones/smalling should be cut, as should darmian probably. But it's not like they're useless players.

Those players have been useful because they are the only ones he has to work with. Their usefulness got us 6th place in the league and for that too we were dragged over the line by Jose's signings - Zlatan and Pogba, while Mkhi and Zlatan contributed to our EL campaign.

All in all, it definitely wasn't some huge bloated squad that needed a feck ton of work. It lacked in having star players, and Mourinho knew that, so he brought in Pogba, Ibra and Miki (and Bailly since our center backs were lacking someone reliable). But it was a small squad that didn't need too much trimming but mostly bringing in the right players. Change Mkhitaryan for Sane/Mane/Salah and our right wing is sorted. Change Lukaku this summer for Jesus for example (or Icardi even) and our striker is sorted. Bring in Mendy at left back instead of ignoring a clear problem position and our left back is sorted. We had plenty of good depth and backup players, and some good starting players, we've just mostly gone after the wrong players apart from Pogba, Matic and Bailly who has been unfortunate with injuries.

Sorry, it was a terrible squad. We were lucky that the LvG seasons were the weakest ever in recent history for the Prem with so many of the top teams undergoing transitions. Otherwise, we would have finished 7th-8th in both seasons.

By "foundations", we have to see if there are players in key positions who contribute to a successful campaign by our standards. Like how Jose left Costa for Conte.

 

[Dobbs]

Chelsea had a few years of stability prior to 2003, we didn't and that's the fundamental difference. However, I don't think we're far from actually winning the league - and to be fair, we'd be closer if City weren't have this complete freak of a PL season.

Is it a freak? By a shit load of top players, two for every position and unsurprisingly you beat teams on a near constant basis. We should get used to this.

But then we've also spent a fortune on players, again two for each position. We would be closer had managers done their jobs to their best ability.

 

[bosnian_red]

Firstly, if we needed 4-5 signings, which is easier said than done in this market, it isn't a very good squad. Especially if those signings are required in key positions like midfield and forward positions, as opposed to CBs and FBs who are cheaper or easier to make do with average quality if we have a good system. Seriously, finding a CF, CM and RW who are like Pogba, Salah and Harry Kane in quality (the level we need) all in one window is no easy task.



Why include players he didn't sign? De Gea was trying to leave anyway, partly accelerated by LvG's eccentricities and it was a freak accident that he stayed. Romero is good, but a back-up GK hardly contributes to "foundations".



Valencia is average and aging, as is Young. Neither of them are van Gaal signings, so again it makes no sense to say he left them behind. And if we got actual FBs, you would see what an upgrade they are on Young or Valencia, Young's purple patch not withstanding.

The others are all crap. Ajax were a below average team and Blind being MOTM has nothing to do with him actually being any good or better than a squad player. If Shaw's attitude was bad, van Gaal should have scouted properly without signing him. Fosu Mensah is unproven and so cannot be a "foundation" as he is not a regular starter.



Give you Rojo, but neither Jones or Smalling were van Gaal signings, so again, this is not "foundation". Neither did van Gaal improve them, they have been as solid or shaky as ever alternately.

[CM: Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Pereira - Carrick is old now, Schneiderlin and Schweiny big flops. Herrera was our player of the season last year, Fellaini is important for Mourinho though most fans I think would still want to get rid in an ideal world. Pereira youngster.

All those CMs are not good enough for a team challenging for the top. I like Fellaini as a squad player, but the others are of no use at all. Carrick is past it, and the same goes for Schweinsteiger who should never have been signed. So basically, van Gaal left no midfield at all for Mourinho.

Herrera was average last year, but it has been exaggerated. That debate is done to death.



Apart from Martial, none of those players are capable of playing week in and week out for a team challenging for the top. I already clarified that Rashford is no "foundation" as he has a lot of prove.



Those players have been useful because they are the only ones he has to work with. Their usefulness got us 6th place in the league and for that too we were dragged over the line by Jose's signings - Zlatan and Pogba, while Mkhi and Zlatan contributed to our EL campaign.



Sorry, it was a terrible squad. We were lucky that the LvG seasons were the weakest ever in recent history for the Prem with so many of the top teams undergoing transitions. Otherwise, we would have finished 7th-8th in both seasons.

By "foundations", we have to see if there are players in key positions who contribute to a successful campaign by our standards. Like how Jose left Costa for Conte.

It's the squad Van Gaal left behind, he could have sold them, but he kept them and played a part in the development of those players. It was not a great squad, very good squad is pushing it too, but I meant it like it was a good squad to build off of. It wasn't a ridiculously overbalanced squad, it was a small, young squad, not a bloated, aging squad that was hugely unbalanced. Sure it needed the injection of world class quality, but I do think that a lot of managers would have liked to take over that squad with the resources we have. It's a squad that you can build however you want and not one that forces you to play in a certain style. I know what you mean to an extent, but if Mourinho had Aguero, De Bruyne and David Silva and City's squad, I'm not sure what he'd do. David Silva isn't his type of player at all, and Aguero is completely different to any striker he's had before. Both are world class players. So are you forced to play according to them, or do you force them to play how you want and not get the best out of them? At United he had a free reign to build however he wanted. No restrictions pretty much. That's why I saw it as an ideal situation for him.

On some of the actual players... Herrera is a very good squad player IMO. You can't have a team full of world class starting 11 players, you need squad players who can come in, and Herrera is exactly that. As is Blind. You say he is crap, but I guarantee that someone like Guardiola would love him and he'd be starting every week in this City side. The type of player he is doesn't suit Mourinho, fair, but even then, he had plenty of excellent performances last season. But him not suiting Mourinho definitely doesn't make him a crap player. It wasn't a terrible squad, it was a relatively small squad with a good group of players that needed the right signings to bring it up to the top level. But a nice squad for someone to take over and build how they want.

And you say it's such a huge task, but I've already listed them loads of times. City got Jesus and Sane, Liverpool got Salah and Mane, both who would walk into our side, both who were well known qualities, one who Mourinho managed before and just didn't like him because he can't get the best out of those players, which is very much one of his weaknesses. He had fecking De Bruyne and didn't feel he was good enough to keep. He benched Hazard and probably would've gotten rid had he stayed at Chelsea. He had Lukaku, got rid, and then brought him back knowing full well how he isn't a talented on the ball player and was limited in what he could bring. He went in hard for Perisic who is a left winger despite the right wing being our problem position, and our best performing players and most promising players being on the left. So sorry if I have my doubts about Mourinho's judgement when it comes to attacking players.

 

[Kapardin]

It's the squad Van Gaal left behind, he could have sold them, but he kept them and played a part in the development of those players. It was not a great squad, very good squad is pushing it too, but I meant it like it was a good squad to build off of. It wasn't a ridiculously overbalanced squad, it was a small, young squad, not a bloated, aging squad that was hugely unbalanced. Sure it needed the injection of world class quality, but I do think that a lot of managers would have liked to take over that squad with the resources we have. It's a squad that you can build however you want and not one that forces you to play in a certain style.

It was a small squad with no world class talent and no players who were fit to play for us week in and week out to achieve our ambitions. Merely being small does not mean it was good.

The young players bar Martial are unproven. Can you win the league playing Rashford and Fosu Mensah week in and week out as of now? Why is youth a positive if none of them are of proven quality?

Again, you underestimate the market. Just because we spend 150 million quid, we cannot easily land a CF, RW, CM and a CDM all in one window. If the signings were required only at CB or FB positions mainly, or the GK position, like City's squad, then you have a point. But we had no starters for key forward and midfield positions required to push for top spots in the league.

I know what you mean to an extent, but if Mourinho had Aguero, De Bruyne and David Silva and City's squad, I'm not sure what he'd do. David Silva isn't his type of player at all, and Aguero is completely different to any striker he's had before. Both are world class players. So are you forced to play according to them, or do you force them to play how you want and not get the best out of them? At United he had a free reign to build however he wanted. No restrictions pretty much. That's why I saw it as an ideal situation for him.

That is moot. If Mourinho can adjust to the likes of Mata and Lukaku, I doubt he would be crying over having to play Aguero, De Bruyne and Silva week in and week out. He would win the league with them.

On some of the actual players... Herrera is a very good squad player IMO. You can't have a team full of world class starting 11 players, you need squad players who can come in, and Herrera is exactly that. As is Blind. You say he is crap, but I guarantee that someone like Guardiola would love him and he'd be starting every week in this City side. The type of player he is doesn't suit Mourinho, fair, but even then, he had plenty of excellent performances last season. But him not suiting Mourinho definitely doesn't make him a crap player. It wasn't a terrible squad, it was a relatively small squad with a good group of players that needed the right signings to bring it up to the top level. But a nice squad for someone to take over and build how they want.

Guardiola does not love everyone just because he is a pretty passer. That is not the only quality he sees in his players. Blind would be a squad player in the City team, as he is in ours. No doubt about it.

And you say it's such a huge task, but I've already listed them loads of times. City got Jesus and Sane, Liverpool got Salah and Mane, both who would walk into our side, both who were well known qualities, one who Mourinho managed before and just didn't like him because he can't get the best out of those players, which is very much one of his weaknesses. He had fecking De Bruyne and didn't feel he was good enough to keep. He benched Hazard and probably would've gotten rid had he stayed at Chelsea. He had Lukaku, got rid, and then brought him back knowing full well how he isn't a talented on the ball player and was limited in what he could bring. He went in hard for Perisic who is a left winger despite the right wing being our problem position, and our best performing players and most promising players being on the left. So sorry if I have my doubts about Mourinho's judgement when it comes to attacking players.

City got Jesus and Sane yes, but they already had a working CF in Aguero, Sterling, de Bruyne and Silva in other positions. Gundogan has been a misstep due to his injuries, but it didn't matter as Fernandinho, who is part of the core from the original squad, is playing well. It was their CB, FB and GK positions they needed to upgrade, which is a simpler task as compared to buying CF, RW, CM and CDM in one window.

Let us not talk about Jose's past sins. It has no bearing for two reasons - 1) He won the league with previous teams despite selling de Bruyne, etc, 2) Our squad is the poorest he has ever managed and the only team with which he finished outside of the top 4 for the first time in his career.

Perisic has been good for Inter, in fact one of their best players. I don't know why you are against his signing, I assume he can even play RW at times if required.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Is it a freak? By a shit load of top players, two for every position and unsurprisingly you beat teams on a near constant basis. We should get used to this.

But then we've also spent a fortune on players, again two for each position. We would be closer had managers done their jobs to their best ability.

Winning 15 of your first 16 is not the norm. It's an incredible start to the season.

 

[bosnian_red]

It was a small squad with no world class talent and no players who were fit to play for us week in and week out to achieve our ambitions. Merely being small does not mean it was good.

The young players bar Martial are unproven. Can you win the league playing Rashford and Fosu Mensah week in and week out as of now? Why is youth a positive if none of them are of proven quality?

Again, you underestimate the market. Just because we spend 150 million quid, we cannot easily land a CF, RW, CM and a CDM all in one window. If the signings were required only at CB or FB positions mainly, or the GK position, like City's squad, then you have a point. But we had no starters for key forward and midfield positions required to push for top spots in the league.



That is moot. If Mourinho can adjust to the likes of Mata and Lukaku, I doubt he would be crying over having to play Aguero, De Bruyne and Silva week in and week out. He would win the league with them.



Guardiola does not love everyone just because he is a pretty passer. That is not the only quality he sees in his players. Blind would be a squad player in the City team, as he is in ours. No doubt about it.




City got Jesus and Sane yes, but they already had a working CF in Aguero, Sterling, de Bruyne and Silva in other positions. Gundogan has been a misstep due to his injuries, but it didn't matter as Fernandinho, who is part of the core from the original squad, is playing well. It was their CB, FB and GK positions they needed to upgrade, which is a simpler task as compared to buying CF, RW, CM and CDM in one window.

Let us not talk about Jose's past sins. It has no bearing for two reasons - 1) He won the league with previous teams despite selling de Bruyne, etc, 2) Our squad is the poorest he has ever managed and the only team with which he finished outside of the top 4 for the first time in his career.

Perisic has been good for Inter, in fact one of their best players. I don't know why you are against his signing, I assume he can even play RW at times if required.

It obviously wasn't the strongest, I'm saying it's a nice squad for a manager to take over and build off of. Nobody is demanding instant success and everything to be done in one window (or at least plenty of fans aren't, they want to see improvement towards a goal of being the best in the world ideally). Mourinho's had 3 windows and still hasn't solved the striker, left back and right wing problems which were problems when he took over. Van Gaal left a squad of mostly useful players and some with huge potential. It wasn't a huge mess, that's my whole point. Wasn't the best thing in the world, but it was a good situation for a manager to take over as they can do what they want with it in whatever direction they want.

As for him adjusting to the likes of Lukaku/Mata.... Lukaku has been pretty wank and Mata gets dropped for any difficult game and plenty of away games. Mourinho doesn't trust him despite the talent. So I think it's a very fair question mark because he had De Bruyne, sold him, while David Silva is a very lightweight player who was inconsistent and injury prone for a while before Pep.

On Blind, I disagree, Blind isn't just a pretty passer but he is a very smart player and an effective pressing player which he showed under LvG. I'm convinced Pep would love him, but it's hypothetical and we can agree to disagree here.

And so what if they already had those? City bought them in addition to them. We needed them more then City did, yet City managed to bring them in anyway. I'm not sure I'd agree that it's easier to bring in a quality goalkeeper, center back, fullbacks compared to the attacking players. So many teams struggle with that, and City spent a feck ton on those positions but bought obviously quality players and have gotten the results you'd expect from them.

Perisic I always liked, but he isn't really what we'd need. He pretty much always plays on the left wing for Inter and for Croatia. Maybe he could play on the right, but he doesn't very often. I wouldn't want us to sign a left winger and confine Martial to the bench, especially when even though he's good, he isn't exactly a Neymar/Hazard/Sanchez anyway.

 

[Kapardin]

It obviously wasn't the strongest, I'm saying it's a nice squad for a manager to take over and build off of.

It wasn't really. However, let us agree to disagree and leave it at that. Reflecting on the past isn't going to change things anyway, and we can hope for better times ahead now at the least.

 

[Dobbs]

Winning 15 of your first 16 is not the norm. It's an incredible start to the season.

It's the new norm.

Spending that amount of money and amassing that kind of talent wasn't normal. It is now.

 

[Oneunited26]

I think people are hoping for a repeat of Inter Milan, as they see it as some anti Pep, but the truth is it was one tie and hardly a dynasty or blueprint to overcome Peps sides long term. I agree Jose is what he is, but I was hoping for something like his 1st Chelsea team. That was a Jauggernaught and would beat this City side to the title (amassed 95 points). for some reason he prefers 4-2-3-1 when I would love a powerful but technical 4-3-3 but oh well.

That is what I was hoping for, that chelsea side would attack sides, when they were organised they had the weapons to hurt you, they could over come sides and relentlessly win week in week out they were a hell of a side to overcome, but they were still exciting at times a true powerhouse side that would dominate and would mix power with technical quality's, everything they touched was gold no matter who they lost. What we seeing currently is a football side that will win some, and will lose some, but no one can be confident week in week out yeah we will win that match.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

It's the new norm.

Spending that amount of money and amassing that kind of talent wasn't normal. It is now.

Yeah if the sample size is the last 4 months, it is the norm. Can you point out a season when its happened before?

 

[Stacks]

That is what I was hoping for, that chelsea side would attack sides, when they were organised they had the weapons to hurt you, they could over come sides and relentlessly win week in week out they were a hell of a side to overcome, but they were still exciting at times a true powerhouse side that would dominate and would mix power with technical quality's, everything they touched was gold no matter who they lost. What we seeing currently is a football side that will win some, and will lose some, but no one can be confident week in week out yeah we will win that match.

And away from home against anyone half decent we will descend into an inferiority complex and abandon any ideas of how to win. Feck it, we need to just give him as much cash as possible and see what happens. If we had a box to box player like Vidal or Kante, one with some technical ability, it would help in a 4-3-3. That Chelsea had players like Thiago so you don't need world beaters all the way through.

 

[Dobbs]

Yeah if the sample size is the last 4 months, it is the norm. Can you point out a season when its happened before?

No, that's why I said it's the new norm.

 

[Oneunited26]

And away from home against anyone half decent we will descend into an inferiority complex and abandon any ideas of how to win. Feck it, we need to just give him as much cash as possible and see what happens. If we had a box to box player like Vidal or Kante, one with some technical ability, it would help in a 4-3-3. That Chelsea had players like Thiago so you don't need world beaters all the way through.

This team reminds me of old England team of 10 15 years ago, there is promise but there is no bottle or seems to me coaching in how to hold the ball and take the side to opponents when the team has half decent, and we go into our shells. Well they would not give him the money to get a perisic, he probably would not have improved us greatly. Yes I agree we don't need world beating players everywhere, but we don't have enough, lingard, young, valencia, herrera, lukaku is a problem for how we want to play. Summer 2017 god was a very underwhelming summer for us, and we left with ashley young and valencia again in our team at fullbacks when we needed atleast this summer a LB, another CM, a RW and a better striker than what we got this summer. It reminded me a bit like chelsea summer 2007 window, and if its true he has to sell to buy we have a problem fixing long term problems with this squad. We need upgrades over a few players like valencia, young, herrera and mata, still think we need someone better than lukaku the way its slowly going. I don't think the way we are being coached right, how we build the squad seems the manager is too scared to rock the boat get the dead wood out with better players, pep ruthlessly got rid of hart, his fullbacks and upgraded, minus bravo was a pep mistake he's fixed that problem. The scary thing is rooney is playing better than lukaku, which shows what has gone wrong with united since summer 2013 and going back further to summer 2009 of our transfer dealings.

 

[Georgan]

Bollocks. Had the players kept their feet in the ground all season, we would have beaten Huddersfield and nobody would be even thinking that we're doing bad this season, we're doing excellent for what happened in the last three and maybe four years. Also, had Lukaku not misshit that set piece for Otamendis goal, I'm pretty sure we could have got the win against City in the weekend.

You can't blame the manager for players always under performing, Mata has shown nowhere close to the quality he was at Chelsea. Herrera isn't even a shade of what he was at Bilbao against us when they beat us in the SAF era. Mkhi... What can I say??? And I might get slated for this but I firmly believe that Lingard shouldn't be considered as a creative cog in our set up, he runs as if he was going to lose the ball everytime.

Our centerbacks are fine, our full backs are serious under performers. I believe theres hope for Shaw as he is still young and has shown previously that he has a lot of quality on the ball. We're seriously light in midfield and wings. I don't think that we need a new striker, especially if we're keeping Zlatan around, we can play Martial, Rashford and Romelu in there.

I for one dont believe that Jose is at fault for our negativism, if anything we're seeing good attacking plays at games, it is the players letting him down and just maybe, the board.

 

[Witchking]

Really confusing to see United play like that and were sitting ducks against Bournemouth. Are we really that toothless without Pogba? If yes, then should Jose not take the blame for that? You cannot put so much emphasis on one player at a club. Jose's pre match conference was all about how the team will be determined to do well post the City loss, but we were only determined in defending well.

Maybe Lukaku needs a rest and Martial and Rashford need to start upfront together but the football United play is really bad after a decent start where the goals were fun to watch.

Other than the results we are not going ahead in terms of the quality of football.