José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances

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Well if the quote from Carragher is accurate, it's something he's been aware of for years. He's certainly not been shy about publicly criticizing players up until the current point where he's starting to worry about his job.


No one's denying that he has been publicly critical of his player including Jose himself but he's certainly not persisting in this manner as you clearly claimed. And what makes you think he's "worried about his job"? Just because he's taking a different approach to silence the media is no indication that he's worried about his job.

So again... regardless of his motive, what do you find "puzzling" since he's clearly not "persisting" in that man management approach you're talking? How does it "smack of pure arrogance" if he's decided to take a different approach?

It's quite disingenuous to shift goalposts just because you need to criticize him.
 
I remember Milan fans considering Allegri as their own version of Moyes.

TBF, I think most of that Milan crisis part happened due to the board mistakes, they let most of the team leave/retire in one go and left the team in nutshells, but problem with Allegri is that his personality in front of the board is absolute zero. He has no problem letting the board fecks up with his team till he gets the sack. Carlo shares the same problem with him. In fact most Italian managers are like that, maybe except Conte.

They play several poor and very dull games in Serie A though, and several Juve fans slaughter him despite the success due to this.
 
No one's denying that he has been publicly critical of his player including Jose himself but he's certainly not persisting in this manner as you clearly claimed. And what makes you think he's "worried about his job"? Just because he's taking a different approach to silence the media is no indication that he's worried about his job.

So again... regardless of his motive, what do you find "puzzling" since he's clearly not "persisting" in that man management approach you're talking? How does it "smack of pure arrogance" if he's decided to take a different approach?

It's quite disingenuous to shift goalposts just because you need to criticize him.


He will be worried about his job for several reasons. He's spent an entire summer slating his players and his bosses and generally making the club look poor. Some of our most talented players (and most valuable assets from Woodward's point of view) want out and even had he been given the players he asked for, it wouldn't have fixed the most glaring problem in the side. He's had two full seasons and it's hard to argue there's reason to be more optimistic now than we were two years ago. Now the season's started and it only took two games for a humiliating defeat. He's just not done a very good job as manager on the pitch or off, in my opinion.

I say persistent because he apparently realized his hardman approach wasn't working when he left Chelsea, yet he came to United and tried it again. That's what comes off as arrogant to me. He's only now walked back when he tried to force Pogba & Martial out and the club wouldn't sanction their sales.
 
Yes because if you look at the difference between us and the team we tried to beat for 1st

What Rio said is great insight but when it comes to current football, it's borderline meaningless because times have changed so much and our players from a mental strength POV have too. There aren't alpha males in our team you would just need a few words to give as motivation for them to perform well on the pitch.
We have a bunch of coddle primma donnas who need to be validated in everything they do, not the same caliber of player therefore they need to be guided.

Mourinho has his good days just as he has his bad days when it comes to tactics and motivation.
You can still bring the overall mentality up massively with a few strong individuals in key positions; how many elite teams even of today can you name that don't have an experienced and commanding centre back that the rest of the team feeds off? I'm not sure I even buy we had 11 warriors back in the good old days; I remember something about Keane going nuts about "cowards" against Leverkusen away 2002.

Bit harsh to judge us an abject failure against the highest point tallying side in Premier League history isn't it? 81 points would have won us the title in three of the last eight seasons.
 
One small thing to consider is, we have not looked great in a 433 under Mourinho. Even the one with herrera carrick and pogba tended to lack goals. the 352 would make sense for us under him, as Lukaku will be well supported by sanchez.
 
Yes we stumbled our way to second place playing horrible football. I was shocked as any when we actually came second with that kind of football we played. We are not going to with the PL with that kind of football so I do not know why Jose insists on playing like that?
 
we need to forget about wingers now and get two up front. Two in midfield does not work either. So its better to play a diamond.
 
He will be worried about his job for several reasons. He's spent an entire summer slating his players and his bosses and generally making the club look poor. Some of our most talented players (and most valuable assets from Woodward's point of view) want out and even had he been given the players he asked for, it wouldn't have fixed the most glaring problem in the side. He's had two full seasons and it's hard to argue there's reason to be more optimistic now than we were two years ago. Now the season's started and it only took two games for a humiliating defeat. He's just not done a very good job as manager on the pitch or off, in my opinion.

I say persistent because he apparently realized his hardman approach wasn't working when he left Chelsea, yet he came to United and tried it again. That's what comes off as arrogant to me. He's only now walked back when he tried to force Pogba & Martial out and the club wouldn't sanction their sales.

Yeah none of those are reasons that are cause for concern for him. They may be reasons why you want him to leave and that's not the same thing. Also he certainly didn't spend the entire summer slating his players - he literally made one comment about Pogba which wasn't even that bad and his comment about MArtial not returning to pre-season was completely warranted. And how exactly has he made the club look poor? I mean sure you can choose to believe that if you buy in to the exaggerations and falsehoods spun by the media. The only people who have made the club look poor have been Raiola and Woodward who failed miserably with transfers.

So what's the "most glaring problem in the side"? Our right wing? Again that's not on Mourinho, That's on Woodward. Experienced CB? Again Woodward. So what exactly would the glaring problem be if Mourinho had got his signings??

He's had two full seasons and it's hard to argue there's reason to be more optimistic now than we were two years ago.

Really?? He's had two full seasons and he's won the EFL, got us back in the CL and got us to second and in the FA Cup Final. If you can't be optimistic on the back of that then I feel like it's you choosing to be negative based on your clear agenda against him. And as for the defeat - it's only two games... really not basis to make rash judgments. In our treble year we drew the first two games and had less points than we have now.

If you don't think he's been a good manager then that's clearly your opinion as you've said and that's clearly based on a personal agenda you have against him. The facts show otherwise.

I say persistent because he apparently realized his hardman approach wasn't working when he left Chelsea, yet he came to United and tried it again. That's what comes off as arrogant to me. He's only now walked back when he tried to force Pogba & Martial out and the club wouldn't sanction their sales.

Well actually you said "he persists" which implies that he's currently continuing that behavior which he obviously isn't and as for him being arrogant, again that;s your opinion but to me the fact that he is making a concerted effort to change is anything but arrogant.

And it's lubricious to claim that he tried to force Pogba and Martial out. You don't give the captain's armband to someone who you're trying to force out. And again, it's Martial who has been trying to force a move. What you're saying is a blatant lie. tt's one thing to have an opinion about him which you're entitled to but it's another thing to go out of your way to misrepresent facts to justify your personal agenda against him.
 
Yes we stumbled our way to second place playing horrible football. I was shocked as any when we actually came second with that kind of football we played. We are not going to with the PL with that kind of football so I do not know why Jose insists on playing like that?

I'm not so sure he insists on it, but rather it is the only way we can play, especially in the big games, with the talent we have in the squad in certain attacking and defensive positions. Mourinho can produce fantastic counter attacking football, but in possession, I am not sure of this capability. We do not have good wingers, neither do we have established full backs, and in defense, we are not solid enough to be as reactive as we are.
 
So to clarify... sacked for finishing 2nd in the league with 81 points and playing bad football?

Yes absolutely. 2nd isn't good enough, and we have no clear strategy under Mourinho. He is not going mount a credible title challenge any time soon. And the quality of the football is amongst the worst I've seen at United in my lifetime. Reason alone for a sacking in my opinion. If you aren't going to enjoy football, then what is the fecking point? I fecking loathe watching us play these days. It's depressing. And before I get the usual refrain of "no-one is forcing you to watch", then let me just stop you there. Correct, no one is forcing me to watch. But I've been a United fan since the mid 80's, and my love for them runs deep. I'l always support the team, even if I hate the manager.

Jose Mourinho is the anti-Manchester United. His lack of class, his temperament, his football, his toxicity. I'm proud of this great club. I love it. I've lived and breathed it. Flown back home from the US, at great expense, just to go to games. Yet never in my life have I felt so disconnected and so disinterested in the club as I am today. If I had the great privilege of owning this club, the very first thing I would do, is give him his marching orders.

I can't imagine many people think he is going to last much longer anyway. The writing is on the wall already. I will say that the best we can hope for this season is a top 4 finish. We look in disarray all over the pitch. Our best player wants to leave. More will follow. Mourinho will meltdown at some point. We all know it to be so. It's just a matter of time.
 
One small thing to consider is, we have not looked great in a 433 under Mourinho. Even the one with herrera carrick and pogba tended to lack goals. the 352 would make sense for us under him, as Lukaku will be well supported by sanchez.

We look terrible in 4-3-3 because Lukaku is useless without a number 10 close to him, becomes very isolated and we play inverted wingers with zero width especially Mata/Lingard joining the midfield as they are terrible on the wings and the midfield has only one attacking outlet in Pogba and he's inconsistent.

I have said it several times last season but 4-3-3 is a terrible formation for us and suits no one in the entire team except Pogba.

We need a formation with a number 10 close to Lukaku, 3-4-1-2, 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-2-1-2.
 
Yeah none of those are reasons that are cause for concern for him. They may be reasons why you want him to leave and that's not the same thing. Also he certainly didn't spend the entire summer slating his players - he literally made one comment about Pogba which wasn't even that bad and his comment about MArtial not returning to pre-season was completely warranted. And how exactly has he made the club look poor? I mean sure you can choose to believe that if you buy in to the exaggerations and falsehoods spun by the media. The only people who have made the club look poor have been Raiola and Woodward who failed miserably with transfers.

So what's the "most glaring problem in the side"? Our right wing? Again that's not on Mourinho, That's on Woodward. Experienced CB? Again Woodward. So what exactly would the glaring problem be if Mourinho had got his signings??



Really?? He's had two full seasons and he's won the EFL, got us back in the CL and got us to second and in the FA Cup Final. If you can't be optimistic on the back of that then I feel like it's you choosing to be negative based on your clear agenda against him. And as for the defeat - it's only two games... really not basis to make rash judgments. In our treble year we drew the first two games and had less points than we have now.

If you don't think he's been a good manager then that's clearly your opinion as you've said and that's clearly based on a personal agenda you have against him. The facts show otherwise.



Well actually you said "he persists" which implies that he's currently continuing that behavior which he obviously isn't and as for him being arrogant, again that;s your opinion but to me the fact that he is making a concerted effort to change is anything but arrogant.

And it's lubricious to claim that he tried to force Pogba and Martial out. You don't give the captain's armband to someone who you're trying to force out. And again, it's Martial who has been trying to force a move. What you're saying is a blatant lie. tt's one thing to have an opinion about him which you're entitled to but it's another thing to go out of your way to misrepresent facts to justify your personal agenda against him.

He's thrown his toys out the pram in an attempt to get what he wanted from Woodward and it didn't work. Now he's left with a team that he's already undermined by saying it's not good enough. If he doesn't think he can perform with the players he's got (and near £400m he's spent since he joined) then he absolutely should be worried about his job.

His comments on Pogba were out of order, his comments on the young players in pre-season were out of order, his opinion that he wouldn't pay to watch the players he put on the pitch in pre-season were out of order, and his comments on Martial were out of order (I suppose we'll agree to disagree on this one - I think Martial staying with his partner while she recovered from birth complications is more than understandable). He had absolutely no business making any of those statements to the press. That sort of negativity and airing of dirty laundry is beneath United and its manager.

The most glaring problem is our attack, obviously. In his first season, when we finished 6th, United scored fewer goals than fecking Bournemouth. The lowest goal haul from a top 4 side that season was 24 more than we scored. Last season, we finished second but scored 38 fewer goals than City and had the fewest goals of all the top 4 sides. I don't believe for a minute that we're one right sided player away from fixing our attack. He just hasn't got any idea how to break opposing teams down and thinks his age old tactic of waiting on a player to produce a moment of magic will continue to work. To his credit, we've allowed the second fewest number of goals each of the last two seasons - 29 & 28 respectively - which makes it all the more bizarre to me that he spent so long chasing yet another centerback. If you can get through a season conceding fewer than 30 goals, you should be in contention for the title. A new centerback is not going to sort out our attack.

Winning the Europa League was tidy enough, but our league performance was so shockingly poor that we'd thrown all our effort into getting into the CL through the back door. He also failed to build on that win and crashed out of the Champions League early on. Second place was nice enough, but we were essentially out of the title race by the start of December and finished 19 points off the top, so it's all relative. We're no closer to being back on top than we were under Van Gaal.

Persistant, persists, whatever. It doesn't matter which tense - I'm talking about his tenure at United as a whole. He's claimed just in the past week or two that he'll stop slating players (which he's yet to prove), but he continues with his unprofessional behavior. The Spurs presser for example - shows up a half hour before it's due to start, takes questions for 4 minutes, then leaves. Petulant.

Re: Pogba / Martial, it's easy enough to read between the lines. My language may have been a bit strong, but take a look at Martial's performance from the beginning of last season until late January. He was second to Lukaku in offensive productivity and was summarily dropped the moment Sanchez was signed and couldn't get back into the team no matter how poor Sanchez was. That's as clear a message as you can send to a young player (who, despite the countless claims of ineptitude by Top Reds™, had a hand in 62 goals in his first 3 seasons). He was one of the few things working offensively to begin the season last year and Mourinho dropped him for a player who produced next to nothing. Throw in multiple pursuits of Perisic, his preference for fecking Fellaini when we need a goal, etc. His demeanor on the pitch against Brighton was unforgivable, but it's easy for me to see where it's coming from. Every player wants to feel wanted and he obviously doesn't. Pogba is obviously a prima donna who cares very seriously about his image. I know this, you know this, Mourinho knew this when he signed him. With that in mind, to come out in the press and shit on him after he'd just won the fecking World Cup is about as lacking in class as any direct comment made by a United manager I can remember. Whether he tried to make amends by giving him the armband or not; the relationship was already likely strained at best, ruined at worst. After that comment is absolutely when the Barca rumors hotted up, so I'm happy to draw my own conclusions.

United is more of a circus than it's been at any point since Sir Alex left and Mourinho is central to all of it. In the past, he got the benefit of the doubt because he was the best. He's just not good enough anymore. He's over two seasons in and I don't think anyone here has a clue what his long term vision for United is. That should be worrying to everyone.
 
We look terrible in 4-3-3 because Lukaku is useless without a number 10 close to him, becomes very isolated and we play inverted wingers with zero width especially Mata/Lingard joining the midfield as they are terrible on the wings and the midfield has only one attacking outlet in Pogba and he's inconsistent.

I have said it several times last season but 4-3-3 is a terrible formation for us and suits no one in the entire team except Pogba.

We need a formation with a number 10 close to Lukaku, 3-4-1-2, 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-2-1-2.

I agree, but i do not blame Lukaku. Hes a striker who likes to run in behind like Henry or Van Nistelrooy. Not a drogba.
 
Moyes started the rot and LVG helped it on and now Jose has completely and utterly destroyed the whole thing. A new Manager has to come and start all over again.
 
I agree, but i do not blame Lukaku. Hes a striker who likes to run in behind like Henry or Van Nistelrooy. Not a drogba.

I don't blame him either. I'm saying we should play tomhis strength by playing someone close to him. He's left completely isolated in this formation.
 
Ancelotti. Best man management in world football. Top tier manager. Success everywhere he goes and players love working with him.
 
Ancelotti. Best man management in world football. Top tier manager. Success everywhere he goes and players love working with him.

Bayern players had the same issue with Ancelotti that we have with Jose. There were several complaints about not getting enough drills and coaching.
 
Bayern players had the same issue with Ancelotti that we have with Jose. There were several complaints about not getting enough drills and coaching.

I'd let Mourinho go simply because the fans nor the board seem completely behind is philosophy. Its partly why it has been so easy for the press to attack the club at every turn. Fans are easily swayed because they do not support and have not supported the manager, based on old allegiances, playing style, and man management choices, which is not suited to a club like utd who have been looking for a long term manager suited to the philophies and style of the club. Ancelotti would fit the bill on the class front, but his age is a hindrance. If there were a good british manager in the league at the moment I would suggest him, but what we really need is a manager with attacking tactics, who would be willing to work hand in hand with a new director of football ( and hence the board). Essentially a young Arsene Wenger who can work with David Dein.
 
I'd let Mourinho go simply because the fans nor the board seem completely behind is philosophy. Its partly why it has been so easy for the press to attack the club at every turn. Fans are easily swayed because they do not support and have not supported the manager, based on old allegiances, playing style, and man management choices, which is not suited to a club like utd who have been looking for a long term manager suited to the philophies and style of the club. Ancelotti would fit the bill on the class front, but his age is a hindrance. If there were a good british manager in the league at the moment I would suggest him, but what we really need is a manager with attacking tactics, who would be willing to work hand in hand with a new director of football ( and hence the board). Essentially a young Arsene Wenger who can work with David Dein.

The board has been giving mixed signals. They give Jose a contract extension which means they buy into his football but doesn't back him fully in the market. Then there is this talk about hiring a Technical Director and not a DOF. Hope we get the next appointment right, else we could get set back a decade without winning anything significant.
 
The board has been giving mixed signals. They give Jose a contract extension which means they buy into his football but doesn't back him fully in the market. Then there is this talk about hiring a Technical Director and not a DOF. Hope we get the next appointment right, else we could get set back a decade without winning anything significant.

Its not really mixed if we are being honest. They were willing to back Jose at the start and up until this summer. They were fine with finishing second as well. Then somewhere between where the contract was signed and now, they have lost faith in him to be that long term manager they wanted. Maybe due to the comments about Pogba, the constant hounding of the board, or the general demeanor around the club. Again I do not blame Mourinho for this, as he was given mission impossible with the club when he came in, and has managed to bring us to a suitable level. And at first the club were willing to do anything to get back to this level, and had complete respect and adoration for Jose's previous achievements. But as time has wore on, they have lost that respect, have grown tired of some of his antics( which are justified in my opinion) and are simply looking for a quieter manager who will please the press, the fans, and themselves.
 
Moyes started the rot and LVG helped it on and now Jose has completely and utterly destroyed the whole thing. A new Manager has to come and start all over again.

Jose has not destroyed anything. The squad is much better placed now compared to what happened under van Gaal.
 
Ancelotti. Best man management in world football. Top tier manager. Success everywhere he goes and players love working with him.

He was a complete failure at Bayern.

Players couldn't wait to see him leave.

His best is also behind him like Mourinho's in all likelihood.
 
Its not really mixed if we are being honest. They were willing to back Jose at the start and up until this summer. They were fine with finishing second as well. Then somewhere between where the contract was signed and now, they have lost faith in him to be that long term manager they wanted. Maybe due to the comments about Pogba, the constant hounding of the board, or the general demeanor around the club. Again I do not blame Mourinho for this, as he was given mission impossible with the club when he came in, and has managed to bring us to a suitable level. And at first the club were willing to do anything to get back to this level, and had complete respect and adoration for Jose's previous achievements. But as time has wore on, they have lost that respect, have grown tired of some of his antics( which are justified in my opinion) and are simply looking for a quieter manager who will please the press, the fans, and themselves.

I was going to ask if you thought this sort of lame & petty reasoning sounded likely, but then I realized that we were talking about the same bunch who thought it was a good idea to go into the season without the players the manager needed.......so maybe you're right.

Can't help but think that there are plenty of better run clubs out there that managers might prefer to go to.
 
Its not really mixed if we are being honest. They were willing to back Jose at the start and up until this summer. They were fine with finishing second as well. Then somewhere between where the contract was signed and now, they have lost faith in him to be that long term manager they wanted. Maybe due to the comments about Pogba, the constant hounding of the board, or the general demeanor around the club. Again I do not blame Mourinho for this, as he was given mission impossible with the club when he came in, and has managed to bring us to a suitable level. And at first the club were willing to do anything to get back to this level, and had complete respect and adoration for Jose's previous achievements. But as time has wore on, they have lost that respect, have grown tired of some of his antics( which are justified in my opinion) and are simply looking for a quieter manager who will please the press, the fans, and themselves.

As you say, if the board has lost faith in him , why is he still here? How is the board functioning correctly if thats the case? For the money spent Jose brought in the results the . We had our best finish in 5 years and finished only below the team who has spent more than us. Jose might be a whiner, but if backed he brings in the results. The board opened itself for criticism after failing to bring in targets and undermining the manager by briefing the press about spending £100m on Varane after window was closed. I thought Jose's assessment of Pogba was spot on during the WC. He did not speak anything badly at all and he continued to support Pogba after the first match this season even though Pogba did exactly the opposite for his manager. If the board is looking for a 'Yes man' manager, we're in for a big trouble.
 
I was going to ask if you thought this sort of lame & petty reasoning sounded likely, but then I realized that we were talking about the same bunch who thought it was a good idea to go into the season without the players the manager needed.......so maybe you're right.

Can't help but think that there are plenty of better run clubs out there that managers might prefer to go to.

We are clearly in transition in terms of how we are run. We are just now taking a step into the "general manager" role that other top clubs have adopted as our recruitment of players and sales have been the major cause of why we have been so average since Fergie left. But for us to even begin to change our management structure, Mourinho cannot stay ( should not). The club clearly has a set of principles and strategies they want to implement, and at this time, Mourinho may not be the right manager for the club to do this with, as he has proven to be confrontational, and does not follow the football the fans want. They were thinking short term when they signed Jose, now that he has steadied the ship, I think they are thinking for the future now.
 
As you say, if the board has lost faith in him , why is he still here? How is the board functioning correctly if thats the case? For the money spent Jose brought in the results the . We had our best finish in 5 years and finished only below the team who has spent more than us. Jose might be a whiner, but if backed he brings in the results. The board opened itself for criticism after failing to bring in targets and undermining the manager by briefing the press about spending £100m on Varane after window was closed. I thought Jose's assessment of Pogba was spot on during the WC. He did not speak anything badly at all and he continued to support Pogba after the first match this season even though Pogba did exactly the opposite for his manager. If the board is looking for a 'Yes man' manager, we're in for a big trouble.

The club has a thing with optics. That is why they kept LVG 5 months after they should have sacked him. Or Moyes, 3 months after they should have sacked him. Its the reason for the press leaks as well. They want to look as squeeky clean as possible. I agree with you on Jose's achievements, but I also believe if we can find the right director of football with knowledge of how to handle transfer dealing, get value for transfers, and profits from sales, and one that can work hand in hand with a new manager. If we can get that to happen, we can be successful with a yes man despite the board being shoddy. Thats why Chelsea under Roman and Real Madrid have been successful. Our club has shown more willingness than any other club to maintain a relationship with managers, with this being the first true sign of lack of backing between club and manager since Sir Alex left.
Woodward has proven himself to be successful on the business side of things, so if we can keep him and the glazers focusing on that end, and the manager and director of football on the football side of things, we will have few problems....of course this is all dependent on the quality of manager gotten, and the abilities of the DOF.
 
we need to forget about wingers now and get two up front. Two in midfield does not work either. So its better to play a diamond.
Forget about wingers? All our success over the years has been through fast wing play. We havent used proper wingers in ages. Moyes was shite so I dont count that anyway, but Mourinho certainly barely uses players as wingers, and when he does it's only as a sub and only the one side. Dont remember when was the last time we even used a standard 442 with normal wide players. Or even a 433 with normal wide players. Instead, our right flank is empty, our left flank is Sanchez falling over his feet and being outpaced by everyone, our left fullback cutting in most of the time, our right fullback always cutting back or hitting the first man.... I'd say a big reason we have failed over the years is because of how shite and unbalanced our wings have been.
 
Forget about wingers? All our success over the years has been through fast wing play. We havent used proper wingers in ages. Moyes was shite so I dont count that anyway, but Mourinho certainly barely uses players as wingers, and when he does it's only as a sub and only the one side. Dont remember when was the last time we even used a standard 442 with normal wide players. Or even a 433 with normal wide players. Instead, our right flank is empty, our left flank is Sanchez falling over his feet and being outpaced by everyone, our left fullback cutting in most of the time, our right fullback always cutting back or hitting the first man.... I'd say a big reason we have failed over the years is because of how shite and unbalanced our wings have been.

We don't have any wingers, so to succeed at the moment we survive without wingers. TBH i long for 442, I used to complain about wanting to see other tactics, but I now hate no. 10s due to how useless they have been for us.
 
You can still bring the overall mentality up massively with a few strong individuals in key positions; how many elite teams even of today can you name that don't have an experienced and commanding centre back that the rest of the team feeds off? I'm not sure I even buy we had 11 warriors back in the good old days; I remember something about Keane going nuts about "cowards" against Leverkusen away 2002.

Bit harsh to judge us an abject failure against the highest point tallying side in Premier League history isn't it? 81 points would have won us the title in three of the last eight seasons.
Abjec failure ? Who said that ? It was a failure yes but I never meant anything more than that.
The number of points we reached is irrelevant in comparison to previous seasons because each season is different and 19 points off the top isn't impressive, no matter how you look at it. Moreover it wasn't even that my major gripe,it is the shite football on display week in week out making me dread to watch our team
 
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You can still bring the overall mentality up massively with a few strong individuals in key positions; how many elite teams even of today can you name that don't have an experienced and commanding centre back that the rest of the team feeds off? I'm not sure I even buy we had 11 warriors back in the good old days; I remember something about Keane going nuts about "cowards" against Leverkusen away 2002.

Bit harsh to judge us an abject failure against the highest point tallying side in Premier League history isn't it? 81 points would have won us the title in three of the last eight seasons.
Abject failure ? Who said that ? It was a failure yes but I never meant anything more than that.

The number of points we reached is irrelevant in comparison to previous seasons because each season is different and 19 points off the top isn't impressive, no matter how you look at it. Moreover it wasn't even that, my major gripe,it was the shite football on display week in week out making me dread to watch our team
 
Agreed. Sometimes it's like some people are seemingly unaware that football and footballers evolve. What was the case then is not necessarily the case now. Also, that squad was way more united (pardon the pun) and each player already knew what their role in the team was. It's the same thing when people bring up the old "well fergie didn't win anything for a couple of years at United". As if the two time periods are comparable in any way.
Spot on. Football and players evolve a lot on short periods of time. We need to forget about SAF's United when analyzing this one and more importantly we need to stop creating myths too about his teams.
The football wasn't always brilliant, we forget the existence of the infamous "zombie football" thread. His players were mentallly tough and he was too, a real beast who would protect his players.
Too many things are different now
 
Yes I have. Feel free to go through my posts. After you decided he he was the devil, have you ever attempted to consider Jose related things with impartiality?

You've already set that precedent, mate. The poster responded to another with a quanitifable, tangible, factual question, regarding our points tally and our league position. You then responded to him with an entirely loaded question, asking him to be "completely cool" with him accepting things how YOU see them. It's not even crossed your mind that some posters might find his complaints as justified, or that the "negativity" surrounding him is ridiculously inflated. You're asking him to respond to you using your opinion of things as factual. You don't want a discussion.

The fact you try to apply the bolded statement literally in the same post you acknowledge me doing the exact opposite kind of shows where you are with this.

Dude again, those things I mentioned I hold against him, has he or has he not done them? From the get go he started with his shenanigans and yes I have actually given him a chance, until as I said he proved it to be an irreparable bitter guy who's only looking after the brand Mourinho. Things I mentioned are as factual as things get and are well documented, everyone can go back and review the things he said .

Have I maybe exaggerated or overblown anything I stated in my original list of the things I hold against him?

It's his own doing after all, you can't go around blaming people that are pointing those out because are you too are well aware it is his own doing.

Now if you're unhappy with people using the things he himself did wrong / said, well then I can't really help you with that mate.
 
Dude again, those things I mentioned I hold against him, has he or has he not done them? From the get go he started with his shenanigans and yes I have actually given him a chance, until as I said he proved it to be an irreparable bitter guy who's only looking after the brand Mourinho. Things I mentioned are as factual as things get and are well documented, everyone can go back and review the things he said .

Have I maybe exaggerated or overblown anything I stated in my original list of the things I hold against him?

It's his own doing after all, you can't go around blaming people that are pointing those out because are you too are well aware it is his own doing.

Now if you're unhappy with people using the things he himself did wrong / said, well then I can't really help you with that mate.
I thing we should leave it here. We aren't going anywhere. Nice chat.
 
I'm not so sure he insists on it, but rather it is the only way we can play, especially in the big games, with the talent we have in the squad in certain attacking and defensive positions. Mourinho can produce fantastic counter attacking football, but in possession, I am not sure of this capability. We do not have good wingers, neither do we have established full backs, and in defense, we are not solid enough to be as reactive as we are.

When did we have good wingers since Giggs went inside? Ronny was not a typical winger and Valencia hits the first man in front of him. We played a lot through the middle too. To me the problem is not our possession but how slow we move the ball. The same with Pogba too. He always tries to take an extra touch or slow down the game. We play best or for that matter any team when they move the ball quicker and I do not mean the crossing or the hopeful punt forward. There is not movement off the ball at all. All we do is a long one up front hoping Lukaku can do something with it.
I also agree that Lukaku is too isolated. We need to put someone closer to him and that is why I feel we need to get rid of wingers and get the midfield and the full backs to provide the width.
 
When did we have good wingers since Giggs went inside? Ronny was not a typical winger and Valencia hits the first man in front of him. We played a lot through the middle too. To me the problem is not our possession but how slow we move the ball. The same with Pogba too. He always tries to take an extra touch or slow down the game. We play best or for that matter any team when they move the ball quicker and I do not mean the crossing or the hopeful punt forward. There is not movement off the ball at all. All we do is a long one up front hoping Lukaku can do something with it.
I also agree that Lukaku is too isolated. We need to put someone closer to him and that is why I feel we need to get rid of wingers and get the midfield and the full backs to provide the width.

At madrid both di maria and ronaldo came inside as well, but he had a front four with players that could move the ball, create chances and make runs. Aside from Lukaku, none of our attackers have proven the ability to have any influence on the attack at all. In counter attacking football, it requires dribbling and creativity from flank players, we have none.
 
What do we think about Simeone for our next manager ? From the little I have seen of Alteltico, they play a similar style of football to us, albeit with players who are much more suited to the system.
 
What do we think about Simeone for our next manager ? From the little I have seen of Alteltico, they play a similar style of football to us, albeit with players who are much more suited to the system.

And that's the last thing most of us want associated with our club. feck that.
 
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