Same
As far as your second paragraph goes, it's hard for me to fathom a perfectionist like Mourinho would be that lackadaisical in his approach.
José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances
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Same
As far as your second paragraph goes, it's hard for me to fathom a perfectionist like Mourinho would be that lackadaisical in his approach.
If we continue to have more defeats then we should cut our losses early. Don't wait until top 4 is mathematically impossible like we did before. Countless times we've seen teams improve when underperforming managers get replaced. I'd happily write off this season and even the chance of winning a trophy if we can get someone with a plan, get to know the players etc and plan for a title challenge next season.
Lack of replacements is a poor excuse. You don't think someone out there can get more of the team than we are currently seeing?
Lack of replacements is a poor excuse. You don't think someone out there can get more of the team than we are currently seeing?
That is shocking and unforgivable tbh. Nothing can excuse this lack of running
We were bottom of the list, but not absolutely lowest. You know who was even less than us? Barcelona and Real Madrid. If we’re going to follow this logic train, we should have ran even less and maybe we would have won the CL?
Any link to this?
Now you're onto something
That's just a tactical thing. If you're deep and are solid in formation then you don't need to run. Secondly if you have a lot of possession, again your miles are reduced. If you're a high pressing side then that's the other side of the coin.
United have been very good defensively last season with less than a goal a game conceded. So this does raise some questions regarding Jose's fixation on getting another central defender. Furthermore, when you actually look a the table in the cold light of day you just realise how utterly dominant City were. Its utterly crazy to be honest.
But this also raises further questions. Clearly, anyone with ambitions of the title need to compete directly with City. Can the United board actually turn round and say that after the summer transfer window they've just presided over? I don't think so. They've basically told Mourinho to get coaching. That's something I'm not convinced he has in locker, or actually wants to do. He's always wanted the finished article so that he can concentrate on game tactics etc.
To top it all off his demeanor is clearly not helping and that's dragging the whole place down and there's a bit of a teflon / blame game going on too. he's basically put you on the back foot before the season has even started. That's not right.
Unfortunately, who ever is in charge needs a rebuild!
We have issue's all over the squad.
Just think of some names who have been here for a good while and don't really offer us anything:
Darmian/Rojo/Jones/Smalling/Fellaini/Mata/Herrera.
Look at the unhappy players who look a shadow of the player they should be:
Bailly/Lindelof/Martial/Pogba/Rashford
We also have Valencia/Young as Jose's first pick FB's.
Our squad is frankly in need of a shake up! Need I mention again that we have NO RW after multiple seasons?
Jose's had multiple windows and has been atrocious when you consider things. Board not backing him or not/whatever the reason. I'd have expected MUCH better from Jose in re-shaping this squad. Re-signing Fellaini summed it up for me, what ad admittance of failure that is
silly point you are trying to make there
you are talking about teams playing in a different league with a different pace
you are talking about teams with players far far superior to ours
you are talking about teams playing in a league far less competitive as ours
highlighting two teams with far more quality actually strengthens the point I was making. If you as a team lack quality or effectiveness, one thing you can do to help is work harder - it pressures the opposition onto mistakes and can help you be more creative when you've more options from movement
They would be working miracles if they did. They can’t have had the whole squad together for more than a couple of weeks.
I don't buy that it is interely tactical because plenty of other teams do play deep (specially the lower ranked teams)and they run more than us in general. Not saying you're totally wrong either. It's not like we have lots of possession do we ?
It's a stat that shows what we've all noticed, a team that doesn't apply pressure when defending and a team full of players who don't make runs to stretch defenses (only Lukaku truly does), a team with terrible off the ball movement to give passers options.
We're terribly coached
Possession might have something to with that. If I remember correctly both Real and Barca average above 65% possession and have about 90% passing success rates?
In general though I think it can be beneficial if you aren't the team that has to run the most since it allows you to reserve some energy so if a team can avoid unnecessary running I'm all for it but if it leads to players not closing down properly or moving of the ball to offer passing options it's going to be a problem for any team. I think stats like these always have to be seen in context to how teams play and what you see on the pitch and I think from that point it's pretty clear that our team often lacks the work rate to do the movement necessary.
This is one of my main concerns - the amount of time It's taken him to rebuild this squad. (5 transfer windows)
Does anyone remember that time on MNF when Neville was discussing how Jose overhauled the Chelsea squad in his 2nd stint at Chelsea to a title winning squad? It was quickly and efficiently done. I'm now beginning to wonder if it was him that was responsible for it or the Chelsea board.
I'm still amazed at the stat @Pogue Mahone posted that the distance we covered vs Brighton is the worst of any team in PL history besides teams playing with 10 men.
That's just absurd and embarrassing for the coaching staff + players. If I was a player, I'd be embarrassed(but some of those players probably aren't).
And Jose can't even get the team to commit the bare minimal effort, never mind anything else.
Probably the most worrying thing to come out from that poor result.
That's just absurd and embarrassing for the coaching staff + players. If I was a player, I'd be embarrassed(but some of those players probably aren't).
And Jose can't even get the team to commit the bare minimal effort, never mind anything else.
Probably the most worrying thing to come out from that poor result.
Do you guys think he had no other position but take the job? I've rarely seen him happy, and he is consistently looking for a fight. The Pogba sandbag made me think he is ready to go.
I'm absolutely with you on this. I hate to bring up Liverpool and City again but one of the main reasons why they can attack so fast and precise is because everyone of their players know exactly who will move where and when to move, with us there is nothing to see of that, players constantly seem clueless on where to actually pass the ball and moving the ball forward after winning it back almost never happens in a fast manner that looks like we have a team that is actually training together.
Not sure about the second part though but if José really only "turns up" for the big games we don't need to be surprised if the players do the same.
How can you compare two sides in a league where they trot around to ours where teams press you & give you no time on the ball. I can ensure you Barcelona & Madrid would certainly run much further if teams in La Liga suddenly started pressing them like Brighton did to us. That is one of the reasons both are well refreshed when playing Champions League games.
As a Liverpool fan that suits me fine!!
But seriously you may have a point with regard to the attacking portion and a lack of movement. You scored less than everyone else in the top 4 but not by a huge margin. Again City's dominance just blows everyone else away in that regard and that skews the eye a bit.
But I do certainly think that defensively there is certainly lots of Mourinho in this. He wants defensive discipline which means shape, a very rigid shape which means your players aren't going to move much.
Didn't basically crawl up Ferguson's trouser leg to try and get the job when he announced his retirement? He wanted this job which makes his whole demeanor and attitude extremely odd. Is he still living in a hotel?
I'm in agreement with the observation in general but I think people get too focussed on the role of coaching in all of this. There are other, much more intangible, factors at play here. For example, when Chelsea last won the league under Mourinho I remember watching their attacking play in the early months of that season and being blown away by how fluid and dangerous they looked. It stuck with me because our football was so damn stodgy in comparison.
This goal stuck in my memory in particular.
By the end of December their season looked like this.
Pos P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 Chelsea 19 14 4 1 40 13 +27 46
We all know what happened in the closing months of that season. They limped across the line, looking nowhere near as impressive as they did in the opening months. With the same manager, the same coaching, the same tactics. To me this shows that our issues clearly go beyond the players not being coached well enough in training.
Of course psychological reasons can also be the cause of this and I think that was what happened at Chelsea, the rot had already set in. I'm also surprised by why we seem so lackluster in that department since Mourinho's teams usually always looked defensive but at least attacked with purpose and mostly with pace. So either he has already lost the team and they are already playing against him or I don't have a clue what happens in their head.
I don't think Mou micro-coaches either to the extent Pep or LVG would. Instructing players where to be at any given passage of play. Pep famously went mad at Henry for scoring a winning CL game goal because he should not have been in that position to score it! LVG wanted you to pass to certain players apparently so similar instructions. With Mou I don't think there has been any suggestion from any of his ex players like this. All his other teams attacked with real purpose and defended the same. We all thought Shaw was being asked to stay back. A Jose interview with Gary Neville would be very helpful where we actually focus on this because I actually think thats the only way his job might be saved is if we understand his version. Going through stills and Gary saying "what is the thinking here Jose"......(with no one showing for the man on the ball or being within 20 yards) etc.....We need him to explain if this is what he wants. A clever interview which actually covers all our concerns which are - he's instructing this ever so rigid style for the first time in his career at United.
Agreed and my guess and observation is that they play with fear and without self-trust.
Doesn't exactly look like an environment of fear with all the smiles at Carrington, the dancing about and pranks on social media, alot of the players seem to have genuine friends at the club. They seem to have it together one week and not the other. It's ok the media saying he doesn't have a clue about his best team.....but we watch them every game as well....and either to we because they are so inconsistent its nuts. Even our captain and most gifted midfielder is the definition of inconsistent. On one hand it's hard to say Jose is saying "Play Good", then "Play Poor" or even creating the right environment one game and not the other.....but likewise no matter which players come in they struggle the same.....Jose has never had that at any other club. His teams are usually nothing if not consistent. It's either a new Jose thing or it's our thing.
I'm talking about game day, plenty of players are brilliant and comfortable on the training pitch and scared on game day. Collectively we look like the least confident top team around, the players seem to second guess themselves all the time at the exception of Pogba who should second himself a little bit more with his silly dribbles.
Fred was doing a lot of silly things in his last game not evident on his debut as well. We need Matic back in there asap to make the right decisions for them. Perhaps Pogs will never be the player here we thought he would become. Right now I'd take him being 6/10 every week and he's a long way from that. Never mind dominating games and being the difference week in week out. I don't think he was ever really that for Juve or France. I think he played with amazing players and every now and then scored a worldy.
At United what is required of Pogba is maybe greater than he's capable of. He tries to be the catalyst and often finds himself attempting things he shouldn't. To be honest all our attackers have stupid things they do when the team enters desperation mode and start forcing the issue. Was highly uncharacteristic of Lingard the way he kept dribbling the ball 20 yards into no man's land. Normally plays smarter within his limits
It's as if they are confused about how it works, moving their feet and playing one touch isn't an option yet.
For anyone who missed it:
Professional players shouldn't be playing a game more than 10 minutes without losing it with team mates if no one is showing. You don't need a manager to intervene. You should be shouting and pointing and making it clear to everyone on the pitch and those watching you are not putting up with it. It's like they are incapable of being the "general on the pitch"....as Lukaku claims to be.
Thanks 7, I hadn't seen it. Neville is excellent, again.
He said everything that needed to be said: Mourinho needs to do his job and improve his players, the club can't change the plan midway it's not fair to Mourinho, the club needs to adapt its structure to his current and probably future reality. Woodward is brilliant on the commercial side of things and there is no shame in admitting that he is out of his depth on the footballing side and that "serious" football people need to guide the club between him and the manager(head coach).
I agree with the board not just throwing money at Jose.
I just think they had enough of him wanting to blow more money on players that are late 20's - 30, especially the way the market was this summer, basically a joke, there's no way it can keep going like that, minimum of £40 million for bang average players.
Like he obviously wanted to get rid of Martial, who's 22, and sign Willian, who's 30.
To me, that's just lazy management, he cant be bothered trying to develop the players he has, he just wants to blow fortunes on ready made players who will be worth f*ck all in a few years, whenever he's f*cked off by then anyway.
I agree with them.
Yes, Guardiola has spent money, but mostly on younger players like Sane, Ederson, B. Silva, Mendy, Laporte, they're now all worth more than what they paid. Same with Liverpool, with Mane, Keita, Salah.
Mourinhio wants to do the opposite, buy 30 Yr olds whose value immediately goes down, it's a shocking strategy.
We're getting exactly what we deserve for appointing Mourinhio atm.
He was never a good fit for us and I said it from day one.
Two of the main things that made us what we are today is, playing attacking football no matter who we were up against and developing young players.
So why we hired a manager who plays defensive football and has no patience for young players is beyond me.
We shouldnt have been that desperate.
Should have just gave the job to Giggsy after Van Gaal, that was the original plan, not give the job to Mourinhio because he happened to make a complete tw*t of himself at Chelsea and got the sack.
Plus, we don't even know the half of it, we're only hearing the jibbersih that happens to be said in public, imagine how much more balls he's coming out with behind the scenes, I think thats what Pogba was hinting at when he said he couldn't really say what was going on.
I just think they had enough of him wanting to blow more money on players that are late 20's - 30, especially the way the market was this summer, basically a joke, there's no way it can keep going like that, minimum of £40 million for bang average players.
Like he obviously wanted to get rid of Martial, who's 22, and sign Willian, who's 30.
To me, that's just lazy management, he cant be bothered trying to develop the players he has, he just wants to blow fortunes on ready made players who will be worth f*ck all in a few years, whenever he's f*cked off by then anyway.
I agree with them.
Yes, Guardiola has spent money, but mostly on younger players like Sane, Ederson, B. Silva, Mendy, Laporte, they're now all worth more than what they paid. Same with Liverpool, with Mane, Keita, Salah.
Mourinhio wants to do the opposite, buy 30 Yr olds whose value immediately goes down, it's a shocking strategy.
We're getting exactly what we deserve for appointing Mourinhio atm.
He was never a good fit for us and I said it from day one.
Two of the main things that made us what we are today is, playing attacking football no matter who we were up against and developing young players.
So why we hired a manager who plays defensive football and has no patience for young players is beyond me.
We shouldnt have been that desperate.
Should have just gave the job to Giggsy after Van Gaal, that was the original plan, not give the job to Mourinhio because he happened to make a complete tw*t of himself at Chelsea and got the sack.
Plus, we don't even know the half of it, we're only hearing the jibbersih that happens to be said in public, imagine how much more balls he's coming out with behind the scenes, I think thats what Pogba was hinting at when he said he couldn't really say what was going on.
Toby is 29 and a perfect age to add to our pool of CBs. Maguire is the younger riskier option who's probably be more money. We need a CB who can give years of good service what do we care about sell on values! Ed worrying about the age demographic of this squad is laughable really and I give kudos to the fans who think that's why the club did not spend money. I bet if ZZ joined and could bring Ramos and Marcelo with him immediately you and Ed's ageism would fly out the window!
True - but why tell him that 3 seasons into the project?? I can't be the only one that thinks it makes no sense. If the board had this view of buying cheap and developing players why hire Jose? Honestly this club is starting to stress me out..
Again, why not try to develop the two Centre backs he did sign?
Is that not what a coach is paid to do? especially an 'apparently' world class defensive coach.
He obviously thought they were good enough to buy them.
If he's made a balls of those two signings (which I'm not even saying he has, time will tell) then why would they trust him to go another spending spree?
Same with Smalling, Jones and Rojo, I would bin all 3 but he's the one who decided to keep them, he obviously thought they were good enough.
Out of a squad of 30+ players, only about a fifth of those players can be said to have improved under his management...and even that is arguable.
That's abysmal.
Honestly, I don't think that they changed their M.O. since Moyes, they don't really think football. I feel that the only reason they hired these managers is because they were easily obtainable known quantities.
He's not selling them but they look like they both need a commanding leader next to them which is totally understandable!
Asking two newbies to do something Jones and Smalling havent been able to do is abit of a stretch.
I'm sure one of Bailly or Lindelof would play alongside Toby. Think Rojo would have been allowed to leave.
You have to back the manager to make the right calls even if its correcting his own mistakes. I expect they will try and get Toby in Jan but by then its too late.
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