He can’t bin them without cover. If we got in a top CB in the summer then I’m sure at least one (possibly two) of them would have been sold.
José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances
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He can’t bin them without cover. If we got in a top CB in the summer then I’m sure at least one (possibly two) of them would have been sold.
Been saying this for months. The fact that the three managers have almost nothing in common proves this and why I have absolutely no faith in them picking the right person after Jose. They are just going to go for the next avauavail guy.
This club has no set principles of who it believes its manager should be.
Maybe they, like me, were giving him a chance to learn from his mistakes in his last few years and try to adopt a different approach? After all, this is a dream job.
I was prepared to give him a chance when he took the job and even again at the start of this season, but he's blown it.
He's doing exactly what I thought he would and just sucked all the energy out of the club and made it all about himself, as usual.
It's one of the best jobs anyone could wish to have and he's paid a fortune, yet he moans on as if its a burden.
The summer tour was a perfect example, if some of our players went far in the world cup then good on them, it shows that they're decent players.
It's a good thing, yet all he did was yap about it.
If you're managing a big club then it's most likely going to happen every two years that your players will do well in those big tournaments, if u don't like it then go and manage a league one club or something, .
Plus, it's also a chance to give the young players a game, yet all he did was moan and pretty much tell them all they were garbage, great management .
I'm predicting this now also:
Those players that he was complaining about and then forced them to come back early, give it a few weeks and hell be contradicting himself and yapping on about how tired they are because they were on the tour.
That's why they should of just let them have a rest and miss matches that nobody really cared about, is that not just common sense?
Thats if he's still there in a few weeks which I hope he isn't.
No disrespect but I have seen a lot of naivety on this forum. Clearly the manager role is being scaled down here, as it has been since JM’s last stint at Chelsea. At Chelsea, he was allowed to sell players, as well as buy, whilst also working in tandem with Mike Emenalo - who was DoF at the time. He was allowed to go bring Cesc (who United were desperate to buy at the time!), Costa, and Matic (who the club had sold to Benfica and had to buy back just like Pogba) and CFC won the league double at a canter, playing sweet footie for the first half of season, scoring loads of goals, until injuries and suspension threatened the title push.
Jose made the mistake of ‘rewarding’ his players for the remarkable season by giving them an extra break to recover and his most important players: Cesc, Costa, and Eden returned overweight. Their season never took off and he was rightfully sacked. In came Conte, manager role was scaled back to “Head Coach” as it still is now.
I believe JM was excited to work at an environment where the manager is king and allowed to mould a team as they deemed fit but alas United, having been left behind the new wave, are scrambling to catch up and you can see the Vice Chairman playing DoF and vetoeing transfers.
As it stands, JM must really be trying to change because I expected him to go feck off I didn’t sign up for this (as was the reason for his firstborn departure at CFC, when Roman had screens installed on his yacht and wanted to himself ‘scout’ players around the world and buy them for his club - he forced Shevshenko on JM and that did it).
But so far JM is playing along, going with whatever the club throws his way and it will ben interesting to see what happens this season. Buckle up!
Did Chelsea fans ever think Jose was a bad coach or you couldn't see a style of play emerging would you say? Ever look this disjointed etc....
Boom. I have been trying to tell a bunch of united fans same thing for a while. It occurs to me that people really havent seen JM’s past team and sort of go with ‘common knowledge’ fueled by media lies and stories.
Not at all. If anything he is/was known to be a thorough tactician, who leaves nothing to chance. I believe the issues at United go deeper than meets the eye but sadly there’s no way to know the real truth now probably until years later when someone writes a tell-all!
Around 70% on here seem to believe football has changed so much and he's been left behind but I don't buy it at all. Like I said I think Neville needs to do a sky interview with him and go through the obvious questions to get to the bottom of what the hell he is striving towards. It's the only thing for me that could buy him time. Right now he's looking clueless in his approach.
@King Kana great posts. You have quickly become one of my favorite Chelsea fans here.
He's not going to say anything in the media till he leaves like what LVG did.
There is something wrong as Jose is not a man who is going to put out such a disjointed team day after day. One match, yes he can make mistakes but not repeatedly like this. This bunch of players can certainly play a lot better than they are. Much better so what is going on at United?
The 4 Cbs we have a lot better than what people think. So is the midfield and so are the strikers. Certainly a lot better than most of the clubs in the EPL.
The 4 Cbs we have a lot better than what people think. So is the midfield and so are the strikers. Certainly a lot better than most of the clubs in the EPL.
1- We never sold Pogba, he didn't renew his contract
2- How is the manager role being scaled down, examples ?
3- What is the new wave ?
4- Have we signed any players Mourinho did not ask for ? How many transfers have been vetoed ?
Thanks mate. I have a lot of sympathy for what Utd are going through but some fans seem clueless about a lot of things, which makes sense as they have been dwelling in cloud 9 during SAF! When I go through this forum I read things that really shock me. Makes me wonder the maturity of a lot of people on here and how much people really don't know about footie even though they have been watching it all their lives!
Give us a like will ya, these 5 posts a day restrictions are doing me head in, especially at the moment when I have a lot to share!
Neville sticks up for Jose
Same ‘league’. Variables taken out - playing style > archaeic distance covered/work rate.
CL data, as follows:
AVERAGE Meters/Minute
Dortmund 118,2
Napoli 116,5
Liverpool 115,3
Basel 115,0
Maribor 113,8
Chelsea 113,7
Shakhtar Donetsk 113,4
Atlético 113,2
Man. City 113,1
Celtic 112,4
CSKA Moskva 112,3
Tottenham 112,0
Roma 111,9
Sevilla 110,6
Leipzig 110,1
Feyenoord 108,9
Paris 108,2
Qarabağ 108,2
Bayern 108,2
Porto 107,7
Sporting CP 106,9
Monaco 106,8
Juventus 106,5
Anderlecht 106,4
APOEL 106,2
Benfica 106,1
Spartak Moskva 105,1
Man. United 104,5
Barcelona 103,9
Olympiacos 103,4
Real Madrid 103,1
Beşiktaş 101,7
This is why discussing workrate/distance covered is completely useless. You’ve got the two CL finalists at both the top and bottom of the list.
Of course United have a lot to improve on in their playing style but trying to make a point out of distance covered is useless at best.
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I don't know what would worry me more: that Mourinho has lost the players and Sunday's performance was them not trying anymore, or that they actually tried their best.
One bad results is hardly a disaster. We lost to them last season too, so i won't look too much into it. I said in the beginning of the season, Brighton, Huddersfield and Newcastle away are our boogey games and we have highest chance of losing these fixtures.
It's not rocket science.
We have no right winger so we can't spread the play and defending teams can simply funnel us down half the pitch to nullify our attacks, the repeating of which breeds frustration and kills our confidence.
Then defensively we have no leader to help our talented younger centre backs raise their games when under pressure, which makes them shakey and further spreads fear throughout the whole team.
I really wanted to see Mourinho with a finalised Mourinho-team this season so I could finally pass judgement, Willian or whoever jinxing their way around the right hand side to peel the opposition's defence across with genuine foreboding and Alderweireld yelling at our defenders to pull their balls out; so frustrating not to get that chance.
We have no right winger so we can't spread the play and defending teams can simply funnel us down half the pitch to nullify our attacks, the repeating of which breeds frustration and kills our confidence.
Then defensively we have no leader to help our talented younger centre backs raise their games when under pressure, which makes them shakey and further spreads fear throughout the whole team.
I really wanted to see Mourinho with a finalised Mourinho-team this season so I could finally pass judgement, Willian or whoever jinxing their way around the right hand side to peel the opposition's defence across with genuine foreboding and Alderweireld yelling at our defenders to pull their balls out; so frustrating not to get that chance.
really no idea why you've felt compelled to post all that data about teams around Europe or compare Liverpool and Madrid. They are teams with extremely different styles and intensity than us (Liverpool) and quality (Madrid) and it isn't relevant
The point I made originally was questioning why our team didn't work hard. It's basic logic that if our players covered more ground we would;
1) defend in greater numbers and more as a unit
2) have more players to support in attack, creating more opportunities and options
3) employ a press to force opposition into mistakes and win back possession
quite simply by working harder we would have these three benefits added to our game - would you argue with that or are you going to provide me with some random stat about how a random team were successful without covering much ground.
We got humiliated by Sevilla last year and they held their own against Liverpool last year too. I don't understand how people still believe that PL is more competitive than La Liga.
I agree to an extent but at the same time watching Chelsea at the weekend was a bit damning as well. Sarri's been there a month or so and he's already got them playing on the ball how he wants them to. I'm not having a go at McKenna and Carrick because it's hard to know how much influence they are allowed to have and they are novices. However it is very worrying how over the last 5 years we've hard numerous different coaches and managers at the club and looked clueless bar a few games here and there under all of them. There's something wrong with the working culture in club.
Mourinho has been knifed in the back by the board and set up as a fall guy to shield them from the fans.
We have American owners. Any American fan of nfl, basketball, baseball or ice hockey will tell you the owners buy it as a ‘sports franchise’. They own it for business.
The board have spent a lot of money under Van Gaal on garbage players and now that money is wasted and Mourinho inherited a patchwork squad of 3 managers to try and mould and rebuild into a top team and they don’t want to fund it. The man city owners own it for fun and throw money at it. That’s the difference.
When we look at how few of the players Mourinho inherited are still here it’s easy to see the project is incomplete. Let’s be real. So many of our players are poor or average and we are deluded into thinking somehow they are good because they play for Manchester United. Valencia and Young need phasing our they aren’t good enough. Used to be good wingers. Jones and Rojo are always injured and even if they play their best are just bang average mid table team players. Darmian and Shaw are no good too. Herrera isn’t up to it. Neither Fellaini or Mata. We struggle against mid table teams now because we have the same standard of player in many areas. If we play Everton and they have Coleman and baines or digne playing they have better wingbacks than us.
They’ve pulled the plug on the investment IMO. Woodward is in there to control transfer spending to keep it down for the Glazers. That’s why we don’t have a DoF.
I do believe that Mourinho has been set up as the fall guy and will be sacked by Xmas. But no one is going to come in and turn garbage and crocks like Rojo Jones and Darmian etc into gold. Then what will the excuse be to not back the new manager? They are crap that can’t be replaced because the board won’t spend. Some people still seem to act like they will come good but they have consistently done nothing but waste oxygen in a Manchester United shirt.
They were openly available for transfer and no one even sniffed at them.
Not shielding mourinho, I think he could be getting a bit more out of what we have but I feel like if we have a new manager this time next year it will be same old shit, until the board spends some serious money on playing personnel for whichever manager is in charge. And if we have another LVG situation that will be squandered as well.
We have American owners. Any American fan of nfl, basketball, baseball or ice hockey will tell you the owners buy it as a ‘sports franchise’. They own it for business.
The board have spent a lot of money under Van Gaal on garbage players and now that money is wasted and Mourinho inherited a patchwork squad of 3 managers to try and mould and rebuild into a top team and they don’t want to fund it. The man city owners own it for fun and throw money at it. That’s the difference.
When we look at how few of the players Mourinho inherited are still here it’s easy to see the project is incomplete. Let’s be real. So many of our players are poor or average and we are deluded into thinking somehow they are good because they play for Manchester United. Valencia and Young need phasing our they aren’t good enough. Used to be good wingers. Jones and Rojo are always injured and even if they play their best are just bang average mid table team players. Darmian and Shaw are no good too. Herrera isn’t up to it. Neither Fellaini or Mata. We struggle against mid table teams now because we have the same standard of player in many areas. If we play Everton and they have Coleman and baines or digne playing they have better wingbacks than us.
They’ve pulled the plug on the investment IMO. Woodward is in there to control transfer spending to keep it down for the Glazers. That’s why we don’t have a DoF.
I do believe that Mourinho has been set up as the fall guy and will be sacked by Xmas. But no one is going to come in and turn garbage and crocks like Rojo Jones and Darmian etc into gold. Then what will the excuse be to not back the new manager? They are crap that can’t be replaced because the board won’t spend. Some people still seem to act like they will come good but they have consistently done nothing but waste oxygen in a Manchester United shirt.
They were openly available for transfer and no one even sniffed at them.
Not shielding mourinho, I think he could be getting a bit more out of what we have but I feel like if we have a new manager this time next year it will be same old shit, until the board spends some serious money on playing personnel for whichever manager is in charge. And if we have another LVG situation that will be squandered as well.
Are you David Moyes?
That's quite a jump for you to make
I take it you agree with those three benefits I pointed out and your are suitably enlightened
tis a service the Moyesiah provides
Are you suggesting that players are not heeding Mourinho's instructions and are willfully playing bad? In that case why does a manager like Mourinho who has no problem calling out a player publicly expose these players? Why the criticisms are only limited to players like Martial, Shaw and Pogba?
What I feel is that at Mourinho's previous clubs, there were a solid core of players who had a good understanding, at Chelsea everything revolved around Hazard, when you add players like Fabregas, Costa, Matic, it becomes a lot easier. Same at Real Madrid, they are winning back to back CLs with a guy whose only coaching experience was with Real Madrid B. At United there is no solid group of players who have played together longer(except for the likes of Smalling, Jones, De Gea etc). Full fledged coaching is required for us, Mourinho cannot just keep adding players hoping to complete the puzzle here. He has to build the solid core, that is where he has failed.
Well that’s just it. Any influence they can have will be more subtle than a new manager, tearing things up and starting again. Speaking of which, I wouldn’t be jumping to give Sarri much acclaim just yet. Even last season they were capable of playing some good stuff, going forward. This season they probably have got a little bit more gung ho but seem to be getting picked apart quite easily at the other end. For me the most obvious positive change is Jorginho, who is a country mile better than the likes of Bakayaoko or Drinkwater (or, and I hate to say this, Pereira)
It's a shame we can't pass judgement. I mean, he's regarded as one of the best managers in the world and we're only getting into his third season at the club. Not to mention we've only spent £360mill + hefty wages on players he wanted to bring in (Pogba, Zlatan, Mkhi, Matic, Fred, Dalot, Lukaku Bailly, Sanchez and Lindeløf). It's not like it would be fair in any way to expect a clear system to be in place. Obviously not, because he didn't get Perisic last summer, and he didn't get the defender he wanted this window, to replace one of the two centre backs he's already had us sign.
Yeah
I'm not entirely sure what to write.
Quite a lot of people debate this as if it's black and white, clear cut answers. It's not, far from. Not to mention the absurd amount of conclusions that people draw from their imagination and cherry picking stories.
First and foremost, the notion that we shouldn't pass judgement unless he has a "Mourinho-team" is absurd. He's had ample time, and a long list of expensive signings, to establish a clear style at the club, giving clear indications of where we're heading and how he wants us to play.
Secondly, the notion that we should even be considering to sack Mourinho at this stage of the season is laughable. We've played two matches, people need to calm the feck down, things can easily change.
If things doesn't change, and we look as miserable as we did last season, then we should seriously consider moving to another manager if there's someone available. If we show clear signs of improvement, then he should stay longer.
Under LvG the players did what was asked of them - maintaining bland possession. Apart from that I have no particular style or philosophy that Moyes or Mourinho have ingrained into the players.
He was absolutely correct to go after experienced players because we don’t have nearly enough of them. Pogba and Lukaku, two of his most expensive signings, are young. Bailly and Lindelöf are young. The only experienced players that he got who are still here are Alexis and Matic.
What does it matter that Willian is older than Martial? I find it ironic that we want young players who will need plenty of time to get things right but when they can’t, we are supposed to start bashing the manager. It’s a vicious cycle.
That's actually worse if the players are happy and still playing like that. 
Not sure Neville thought that one through.
Not sure Neville thought that one through.
It's a shame we can't pass judgement. I mean, he's regarded as one of the best managers in the world and we're only getting into his third season at the club. Not to mention we've only spent £360mill + hefty wages on players he wanted to bring in (Pogba, Zlatan, Mkhi, Matic, Fred, Dalot, Lukaku Bailly, Sanchez and Lindeløf). It's not like it would be fair in any way to expect a clear system to be in place. Obviously not, because he didn't get Perisic last summer, and he didn't get the defender he wanted this window, to replace one of the two centre backs he's already had us sign.
Yeah
I'm not entirely sure what to write.
Quite a lot of people debate this as if it's black and white, clear cut answers. It's not, far from. Not to mention the absurd amount of conclusions that people draw from their imagination and cherry picking stories.
First and foremost, the notion that we shouldn't pass judgement unless he has a "Mourinho-team" is absurd. He's had ample time, and a long list of expensive signings, to establish a clear style at the club, giving clear indications of where we're heading and how he wants us to play.
Secondly, the notion that we should even be considering to sack Mourinho at this stage of the season is laughable. We've played two matches, people need to calm the feck down, things can easily change.
If things doesn't change, and we look as miserable as we did last season, then we should seriously consider moving to another manager if there's someone available. If we show clear signs of improvement, then he should stay longer.
Great post this.
If it's true that he's not giving any tactical instructions and just leaving it to the players to do what they want then he won't be here for long.
They certainly played like it on Sunday.
The interesting thing is, when is enough...enough?
If this does continue on and presumably Chelsea and Arsenal will do more work/adapt to any tactical philosophy within a couple months (more than Mourinho has done in 3 seasons here), when does Woodward pull the plug? When we lose 5/6/7/8 games by December? Does Mourinho do a Chelsea and give us no hope in getting top 4, then he gets a sack? Woodward knows that not getting top 4 will impact any money coming in, so maybe he will have some foresight and sack him before anything gets extremely bad. He gave Moyes and LVG time within a season to buck up their ideas, and it still went bad. He needs to learn from his lessons.
Mourinho could change the team to a back 5 and get top 2 by the end of season for all we know. But still, questions need to be asked.
If this does continue on and presumably Chelsea and Arsenal will do more work/adapt to any tactical philosophy within a couple months (more than Mourinho has done in 3 seasons here), when does Woodward pull the plug? When we lose 5/6/7/8 games by December? Does Mourinho do a Chelsea and give us no hope in getting top 4, then he gets a sack? Woodward knows that not getting top 4 will impact any money coming in, so maybe he will have some foresight and sack him before anything gets extremely bad. He gave Moyes and LVG time within a season to buck up their ideas, and it still went bad. He needs to learn from his lessons.
Mourinho could change the team to a back 5 and get top 2 by the end of season for all we know. But still, questions need to be asked.
What would Lee Sharpe know? How does he still have sources when he was sold 20 years ago?
Manchester United have one of the greatest modern managers in Jose. Tactically one of the most astute managers, who has managed top teams all over the world. Very few managers in the current market can stand up to his achievements (the other one being Pep).There are very few managers who could do what he has for United in the past 2 years. Dragged them from going to an irrelevant joke club under Moyes/LVG, to a team which is well respected if not feared, wins trophies, expected at the least to be a regular top 4 side and compete with the big boys. Yes his style seems very boring, having pampered by the so called "United Way" under Sir Alex; but the guy is extremely pragmatic and above all a winner. Before slagging him off, people should get an objective non-emotional perspective of what is really happening at United that has brought all this negativity and whether it truly warrants Jose criticism.
I am completely perplexed by the amount of negativity here. Almost 90% of these posts are from frustrated fans sitting at home whining constantly because of the Brighton Loss, considering it some kind of predicted culmination based on what happened in pre-season (transfers, Footballing style, US tour, Martial/Pogba incidents). Most of these posts are "Daddy I want the pink Candy" posts, emotional cries from kids with very little regard to logic or reality.
Key points that get churned over and over in these forums and blamed on Jose are:
Dressing Room Loss: Jose "harsh" towards his own players, throwing them under bus - Shaw/Martial/Pogba etc.
Truth is, most of the players slated by Mourinho are players who are just not good enough for United. These are very average players in Martial, Shaw, Smalling, Jones and Pogba, over-hyped by media and fans to be some sort of superstars. It's stupid for fans to think Mourinho is wrong here. Talent alone won't make a player world class.
Take Liverpool for example, Klopp never plays players who are tactically lazy irrespective of how talented they are. A fit Sturridge will never get a nod over Firmino under Klopp because he doesn't work hard tactically. It's the same with City. Pep benched Aguero from day one for Jesus, because he was not working harder tactically. Their message was clear - I don't care how talented you are, if you work hard you are in. Players like Sakho, Yaya, Balotelli never lasted because they just don't work hard enough. Its the same with players like Pogba or Martial, if they are to be considered world class, they can't just rely on skills. They need to work hard on their tactical discipline. Being hailed as some kind of messiah by fans and media has got into their tiny heads and they keep acting like spoiled kids, Jose is right to throw them under the bus. He is publicly slating them to break their imaginary bubble of entitled stardom with which they come to every training session and match day and hardly bother to perform. Players like Shaw, Smalling and Jones can and should offer more. If they can't, they should leave united and play for some mid table club.
United had players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Keane, Scholes Neville, Ferdinand, Evra, Vidic, players who work their ass off to get the results. Your Martials and Pogbas hardly do that. The best players of United according to me are, Lingard, Rashford, Valencia, Young, Lukaku, Bailley, Felliani (yes felliani), Sanchez, Herrara, etc. simply because these players respect the manager and fight for their shirts. If the manager asks more, work hard and make it happen. As far as I can see, Mourinho would gladly replace them two (P and M) for other hardworking talents and If I was a united fan, I would say good riddance. Jose is used to the likes of Drogba, Lampard, Terry and would dote the likes of Keane, Rooney and Scholes, because these are warriors. The real winners who carry the club. Not these snowflakes. Pogba and Martial, with their current attitude and form will not make into the City/Liverpool or Spurs. Their managers would instantly drop them until they work harder. Jose is doing the right thing here.
Preseason Loss: United lost a bunch of pre-season games playing terrible football with little to no direction.
So much is made out United's preseason loss. United had least number of 1st team players due to world cup and big injury list. Their pre-season preparations were hardly ideal. You have to look at the context before moaning. Everybody knows Mourinho's tactics rely as much on physical attributes as on ball playing skills. Strong target man Players like Lukaku/Felliani/Drogba/Ibra etc.. are a vital must for Mourinho's sytem to flourish. The ball playing players pick up the pieces knocked down from the Target man to create chaos in final third. This is the tactical reality under Mourinho since ages. A reserve United team under Mourinho would never perform as well as his first team. They just don't have that right personnel to execute it. To draw conclusion from the reserve team performance and co-relate it with the main team performance is naivety at best. They are entirely two different teams (which is not the case for other tactical systems such as, Klopp/Pep's, which relies more on system and personal skills only enhance them) Pre-season loss has zero context to the actual season for Mourinho's team. Despite all that they only lost to a strong Liverpool and Bayern Munich Side. I can't understand the negativity and furor. The actual interview about team and players was a misquoted hyperbolic. Jose was angry after a loss to an important rival and ranted. Simple as that. To say that it damages young players morale is a joke. If Every time a manager yells at his players after a game will shatter a players confidence, we will have zero confident players in the world.
Poor Transfer Choices: Failed Transfers is Jose's fault due to Bailley and Lindelof being poor Jose signing, he cannot be trusted with money. Prioritising Defenders over wingers/full backs is wrong.
Attacking Talent: Rashford, Lingard, Sanchez, Martial, Lukaku
Midfield Talent: Fred, Matic, Perreira, Felliani, Herrera, Mata, improved Pogba (due to fred covering defensive duties),
Defensive Talent: Bailly (CB), Smalling (CB), Jones (CB), Lindelof (CB), Darmian, Young (Dalot), Valencia (Shaw).
Any blind person will say the United's weakest area is defensive talent. One injury to Bailly will prove disastrous as Jones/Smalling are not reliable both by quality and injury and Lindelof haSn't been great. Yes United does need, wing backs. But the need is more to improve attack than defense when it comes to Young and Valencia. If Shaw steps up and the Dalot punt works, again you have fresher legs from young and valencia.
The purchase of Fred, despite a defensive one is meant to free up Pogba (Kind of an attacking purchase).The only way, United buys a new effective winger is if they sell Martial. If you honestly asses the squad, you really need a CB, the bedrock of Mourinho tactics and may be a back up to Lukaku, the desperate Felliani signing makes sense. Other than Lewandowski, I don't see other CF in market replacing Lukaku from the first team. Sanchez is meant to play around Lukaku not to replace him. So yeah, woodward should have went and purchased a CB this market. IMO the most important need for United.
Pep brought Claudio, replaced him with Ederson agreeing he was bad. Brought Mendy, replaced him with Walker once he got injured. If you want to challenge city right away (like most arm chair glory hunting fake united fans want), you have to get Mourinho what he wants, though he made a mistake with Lindelof (Don't think Bailly was a mistake. He is a great defender, just had a bad day).
Soul Destroying Defensive Football: United don't have a set attacking plan (Hoof-ball style). Pales in comparison to City/Liverpool
The way united is playing so poorly is not Mourinho's fault. Yes he is a defense minded pragmatic coach, but the reason why united is playing so poorly right now has 80% to do with the quality of his squad than his tactics. His Chelsea(Old& new) /Inter/Real sides played defensively in big cup games or against stronger teams, but always destroyed the small teams. They were never this boring or bad in any of his previous teams. This united team just don't have the same quality. The players are not stringing 2 passes together.
Midfield: Essien,Makele, Lampard, Cambiasso, Sneijder, Zanetti, Ozil, Kaka, Hazard, Matic (prime),
Wingers: Robben, Ronaldo, Bale, Di Maria,
Strikers: Drogba, Ibra (prime), Eto, Milito, Costa
Defenders: Every One (long List)
Compare these with the Current United Squad.. Not Just in talent, the desire, passion, hard work.. The Current United squad is no where near this. Taking this United team to 2nd in itself is a great achievement. United fans wishing for Tuchel/Emery/Jardim/Pochettino etc., are the same fans who are giving a team progressing under Mourinho zero chances after 2 league games. Any manager other than Pep, will not be able to pacify these fickle online keyboard United fans.
I will make the bold prediction here, United will come 2nd (or 3rd depending on Liverpool). It will not be a big gap between the top 3 teams. They will do way better than what the "Sack Mourinho Glory Hunting Impatient Arm Chair" united fans believe. If they had got him a decent CB in the summer and backed him with his targets, he would give a bigger fight than Liverpool to the City side. (This coming from an ardent Liverpool Fan).
The Guy is a winner. Stop Moaning against the manager. Be Patient, United will do good.
I am completely perplexed by the amount of negativity here. Almost 90% of these posts are from frustrated fans sitting at home whining constantly because of the Brighton Loss, considering it some kind of predicted culmination based on what happened in pre-season (transfers, Footballing style, US tour, Martial/Pogba incidents). Most of these posts are "Daddy I want the pink Candy" posts, emotional cries from kids with very little regard to logic or reality.
Key points that get churned over and over in these forums and blamed on Jose are:
Dressing Room Loss: Jose "harsh" towards his own players, throwing them under bus - Shaw/Martial/Pogba etc.
Truth is, most of the players slated by Mourinho are players who are just not good enough for United. These are very average players in Martial, Shaw, Smalling, Jones and Pogba, over-hyped by media and fans to be some sort of superstars. It's stupid for fans to think Mourinho is wrong here. Talent alone won't make a player world class.
Take Liverpool for example, Klopp never plays players who are tactically lazy irrespective of how talented they are. A fit Sturridge will never get a nod over Firmino under Klopp because he doesn't work hard tactically. It's the same with City. Pep benched Aguero from day one for Jesus, because he was not working harder tactically. Their message was clear - I don't care how talented you are, if you work hard you are in. Players like Sakho, Yaya, Balotelli never lasted because they just don't work hard enough. Its the same with players like Pogba or Martial, if they are to be considered world class, they can't just rely on skills. They need to work hard on their tactical discipline. Being hailed as some kind of messiah by fans and media has got into their tiny heads and they keep acting like spoiled kids, Jose is right to throw them under the bus. He is publicly slating them to break their imaginary bubble of entitled stardom with which they come to every training session and match day and hardly bother to perform. Players like Shaw, Smalling and Jones can and should offer more. If they can't, they should leave united and play for some mid table club.
United had players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Keane, Scholes Neville, Ferdinand, Evra, Vidic, players who work their ass off to get the results. Your Martials and Pogbas hardly do that. The best players of United according to me are, Lingard, Rashford, Valencia, Young, Lukaku, Bailley, Felliani (yes felliani), Sanchez, Herrara, etc. simply because these players respect the manager and fight for their shirts. If the manager asks more, work hard and make it happen. As far as I can see, Mourinho would gladly replace them two (P and M) for other hardworking talents and If I was a united fan, I would say good riddance. Jose is used to the likes of Drogba, Lampard, Terry and would dote the likes of Keane, Rooney and Scholes, because these are warriors. The real winners who carry the club. Not these snowflakes. Pogba and Martial, with their current attitude and form will not make into the City/Liverpool or Spurs. Their managers would instantly drop them until they work harder. Jose is doing the right thing here.
Preseason Loss: United lost a bunch of pre-season games playing terrible football with little to no direction.
So much is made out United's preseason loss. United had least number of 1st team players due to world cup and big injury list. Their pre-season preparations were hardly ideal. You have to look at the context before moaning. Everybody knows Mourinho's tactics rely as much on physical attributes as on ball playing skills. Strong target man Players like Lukaku/Felliani/Drogba/Ibra etc.. are a vital must for Mourinho's sytem to flourish. The ball playing players pick up the pieces knocked down from the Target man to create chaos in final third. This is the tactical reality under Mourinho since ages. A reserve United team under Mourinho would never perform as well as his first team. They just don't have that right personnel to execute it. To draw conclusion from the reserve team performance and co-relate it with the main team performance is naivety at best. They are entirely two different teams (which is not the case for other tactical systems such as, Klopp/Pep's, which relies more on system and personal skills only enhance them) Pre-season loss has zero context to the actual season for Mourinho's team. Despite all that they only lost to a strong Liverpool and Bayern Munich Side. I can't understand the negativity and furor. The actual interview about team and players was a misquoted hyperbolic. Jose was angry after a loss to an important rival and ranted. Simple as that. To say that it damages young players morale is a joke. If Every time a manager yells at his players after a game will shatter a players confidence, we will have zero confident players in the world.
Poor Transfer Choices: Failed Transfers is Jose's fault due to Bailley and Lindelof being poor Jose signing, he cannot be trusted with money. Prioritising Defenders over wingers/full backs is wrong.
Attacking Talent: Rashford, Lingard, Sanchez, Martial, Lukaku
Midfield Talent: Fred, Matic, Perreira, Felliani, Herrera, Mata, improved Pogba (due to fred covering defensive duties),
Defensive Talent: Bailly (CB), Smalling (CB), Jones (CB), Lindelof (CB), Darmian, Young (Dalot), Valencia (Shaw).
Any blind person will say the United's weakest area is defensive talent. One injury to Bailly will prove disastrous as Jones/Smalling are not reliable both by quality and injury and Lindelof haSn't been great. Yes United does need, wing backs. But the need is more to improve attack than defense when it comes to Young and Valencia. If Shaw steps up and the Dalot punt works, again you have fresher legs from young and valencia.
The purchase of Fred, despite a defensive one is meant to free up Pogba (Kind of an attacking purchase).The only way, United buys a new effective winger is if they sell Martial. If you honestly asses the squad, you really need a CB, the bedrock of Mourinho tactics and may be a back up to Lukaku, the desperate Felliani signing makes sense. Other than Lewandowski, I don't see other CF in market replacing Lukaku from the first team. Sanchez is meant to play around Lukaku not to replace him. So yeah, woodward should have went and purchased a CB this market. IMO the most important need for United.
Pep brought Claudio, replaced him with Ederson agreeing he was bad. Brought Mendy, replaced him with Walker once he got injured. If you want to challenge city right away (like most arm chair glory hunting fake united fans want), you have to get Mourinho what he wants, though he made a mistake with Lindelof (Don't think Bailly was a mistake. He is a great defender, just had a bad day).
Soul Destroying Defensive Football: United don't have a set attacking plan (Hoof-ball style). Pales in comparison to City/Liverpool
The way united is playing so poorly is not Mourinho's fault. Yes he is a defense minded pragmatic coach, but the reason why united is playing so poorly right now has 80% to do with the quality of his squad than his tactics. His Chelsea(Old& new) /Inter/Real sides played defensively in big cup games or against stronger teams, but always destroyed the small teams. They were never this boring or bad in any of his previous teams. This united team just don't have the same quality. The players are not stringing 2 passes together.
Midfield: Essien,Makele, Lampard, Cambiasso, Sneijder, Zanetti, Ozil, Kaka, Hazard, Matic (prime),
Wingers: Robben, Ronaldo, Bale, Di Maria,
Strikers: Drogba, Ibra (prime), Eto, Milito, Costa
Defenders: Every One (long List)
Compare these with the Current United Squad.. Not Just in talent, the desire, passion, hard work.. The Current United squad is no where near this. Taking this United team to 2nd in itself is a great achievement. United fans wishing for Tuchel/Emery/Jardim/Pochettino etc., are the same fans who are giving a team progressing under Mourinho zero chances after 2 league games. Any manager other than Pep, will not be able to pacify these fickle online keyboard United fans.
I will make the bold prediction here, United will come 2nd (or 3rd depending on Liverpool). It will not be a big gap between the top 3 teams. They will do way better than what the "Sack Mourinho Glory Hunting Impatient Arm Chair" united fans believe. If they had got him a decent CB in the summer and backed him with his targets, he would give a bigger fight than Liverpool to the City side. (This coming from an ardent Liverpool Fan).
The Guy is a winner. Stop Moaning against the manager. Be Patient, United will do good.
So many words, so little sense.
Its interesting that at United Jose must have an entire new 11 before you can judge him. When the next manager comes, will you wait till he replaces his entire 11 before you judge him/her? you do realise that's an insane privilege that managers don't typically get (an entire new team)? most good managers are expected to do something with what they have unless you are purely about the chequebook. We are more focused on the chequebook here than actually coaching players better.
Thoughts been crystallising today. In a lot of ways little seems to have changed from LvG's appalling negative boring shite, no movement, no flair, no attack; and yet Mourinho's been here two years and had money to spend. I'm in the Out camp.
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