José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances
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There's no middle ground here. Either he has done enough or he hasn't. If the progress is not good enough, then the obvious thing would be to hire someone else. How much more can you progress from second place? To first? But that would mean that Jose needed additional money because it's not like Guardiola is on a shoestring budget there.
The only conclusion that I can come to is that the Glazers are leeching parasites and all they care about is finishing top 4. And they will never invest unless it is absolutely necessary to do so, like falling out from the top 4.
Nope, we were not. Van Gaal finished 5th in his last season - out of the CL places.
I think so. Give him close to 400m, he'd give you 4th. Even Giggs could do that.
Damn. My memory fails me. You're right.
Both LVG and Moyes were sacked for finishing outside top 4. When LVG scrapped his way to top 4 in his first season, it was considered a success by him and Ed who talked highly about him and this 4th spot after the season. It's the ultimate target imo. They know this squad and manager are good enough to finish top 4, why bother to spend more ?
These past few years proved that SAF influence over the club was far more than the football team alone. Without him we got exposed, on and off the pitch.
I don't know. Staying in top 4 as target isn't going to make our club bigger and give us more sponsors.
Those clubs you mentioned are way more ruthless than us, unfortunately. Chelsea who were run by a clown like Abramovich used to sack managers after winning the league, the cup, the CL, and never hesitated to sack managers after 4 months. Bayern and Madrid are in the same boat. We always laugh and label clubs like that as circuses, but that is exactly why they rarely or never go through periods like we are going through since Fergie retired.
Their ruthlessness keeps them competitive at all fronts season after season regardless of who their manager is. We, on the other hand, are lacking direction.
Exactly, I could barely tell you who has finished second over to the last 10 years as no one gives a flying feck.
If we are managed by people who think that top 4 is the target, they shouldn't be at this club. Anything below finishing 1st is a failure and should be labeled as such. A cup will always soften the blow but finishing trophyless is unacceptable. The response to finishing trophyless this summer should've been ruthless, by doing a huge overhaul of players and management. Instead, we got a pathetic response of one and a half signings, which unfortunately solidifies the fact that the club is run by an incompetent bunch.
If you're referring to what Jose has spent it's just above 300m (net). I think you underestimate how tough the competition is and how clueless LVG was and completely untested Giggsy is. I get you don't rate Mourinho, but let's be sensible.
Christ, here we go with defending the manager based on 'net spend'. We've arrived. We are RAWK.
Huh? All it takes is the club to decide we need an attacking manager. I'm not really understanding your point. Not trying to be rude btw.
In hindsight, Giggs was the right choice. Now I am not gonna gloat or anything, be like I told you so cuz I also wanted Mourinho. So I was wrong.
But looking back, Giggs does have the United DNA and probably more of a finger on the pulse of todays game than Mourinho.
I'm really starting to think coaches are a bit like players in that they have a limited window when they get it, they have the right feel for the game etc...but as the game changes, many stay behind. Its what has happened to Mourinho unfortunately.
Just like players out of their physical prime going to China and places like that, its also probably the logical next step for Mourinho.
Dont think he"ll be coaching at a high level again, certainly not in one of the big league.
Stick a fork in him...he's done.
But looking back, Giggs does have the United DNA and probably more of a finger on the pulse of todays game than Mourinho.
I'm really starting to think coaches are a bit like players in that they have a limited window when they get it, they have the right feel for the game etc...but as the game changes, many stay behind. Its what has happened to Mourinho unfortunately.
Just like players out of their physical prime going to China and places like that, its also probably the logical next step for Mourinho.
Dont think he"ll be coaching at a high level again, certainly not in one of the big league.
Stick a fork in him...he's done.
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Considering our club has been becoming more and more like Liverpool since Fergie retired, it only makes sense that our forum keep pace. Welcome to the future.
Also, one thing Im surprised no one is bringing up but Im sure many will start bringing it up with time....Kovacic didnt want want to sign for United because he didnt want to play for Mourinho. Doubt people get it what a blow that is.
But if his first game is any indication and why wouldnt it be, he will be one of the best players in the league and a perfect midfielder for years to come. You want the next Modric? Well, thats the guy. And he didnt want to come here because he didnt want to play for Mourinho.
But if his first game is any indication and why wouldnt it be, he will be one of the best players in the league and a perfect midfielder for years to come. You want the next Modric? Well, thats the guy. And he didnt want to come here because he didnt want to play for Mourinho.
I am amazed that people are still pushing this "we haven't spent enough money" narrative. You are right to criticise the Glazers, and if United had owners like City's owners then they would probably have spent more.
But...let's go from back to front. United have the best goalkeeper in the world. Real Madrid really wanted him. Their reserve keeper has 94 caps for Argentina.
Both of the starting centre-backs against Brighton were signed by Mourinho for £30 million+. They also have Jones and Smalling, who are both experienced England internationals. Even Rojo has had his moments, and isn't bad for your fifth choice centre back! Shaw was the most expensive teenager in world football when he was signed. Valencia is very highly regarded by Mourinho, and he didn't give any indication that he wanted to sign a full-back anyway, he wanted to replace the centre-backs that he'd signed himself.
Pogba was the world's most expensive player when signed. He's still the most expensive player in the Premier League. Fred cost over £50 million, Matic cost over £40 million, Mata was signed for nearly £40 million, Herrera cost £30 million. Mourinho also moved heaven and earth to keep Fellaini. And then they've got Pereira who is now involved again.
Sanchez was signed on an absolutely massive deal, Martial was the most expensive teenager in the world when signed, and will cost close to £60 million depending on clauses. Rashford is another player in that ballpark in terms of value. Ditto Lingard.
Lukaku cost £85 million, and is the most expensive forward in the Premier League.
This is a good and expensive team. Potentially good. If you can't make a team out of that then you are failing as a manager. Let alone should that team be losing to Brighton, and not only losing but torn apart in the first-half, and flattered by a 2-3 scoreline.
But...let's go from back to front. United have the best goalkeeper in the world. Real Madrid really wanted him. Their reserve keeper has 94 caps for Argentina.
Both of the starting centre-backs against Brighton were signed by Mourinho for £30 million+. They also have Jones and Smalling, who are both experienced England internationals. Even Rojo has had his moments, and isn't bad for your fifth choice centre back! Shaw was the most expensive teenager in world football when he was signed. Valencia is very highly regarded by Mourinho, and he didn't give any indication that he wanted to sign a full-back anyway, he wanted to replace the centre-backs that he'd signed himself.
Pogba was the world's most expensive player when signed. He's still the most expensive player in the Premier League. Fred cost over £50 million, Matic cost over £40 million, Mata was signed for nearly £40 million, Herrera cost £30 million. Mourinho also moved heaven and earth to keep Fellaini. And then they've got Pereira who is now involved again.
Sanchez was signed on an absolutely massive deal, Martial was the most expensive teenager in the world when signed, and will cost close to £60 million depending on clauses. Rashford is another player in that ballpark in terms of value. Ditto Lingard.
Lukaku cost £85 million, and is the most expensive forward in the Premier League.
This is a good and expensive team. Potentially good. If you can't make a team out of that then you are failing as a manager. Let alone should that team be losing to Brighton, and not only losing but torn apart in the first-half, and flattered by a 2-3 scoreline.
Totally agree.
On a side note, listening to his interviews after the game is it me or has his attitude changed a bit this season so far? I wouldn't say he was positive, but he refused to get negative quite a few times and even mentioned that he doesn't want the press to get him to say negative things. Someone must have come down on him a bit after his antics last season.
Great comment. A plus. Would read again.
Well put.
Keep your head firmly buried under the sand
He can't get his biggest signing to play according to his wishes. What more do we need to know!
This team can not perform without automatisms. The lack of attacking structure gets us no where in attack.
We'll never get there with Jose either.
I wonder how long it'll take Woodward to pull the plug if it truly unravels with Jose.
The England national team is better coached than Manchester United. Never thought I'd say that.
And England are actually a decent example to highlight our shortcomings. Their personnel is nothing special. But they play cohesive, organised and fluid football. Sure they come unstuck against better teams as you'd expect but they generally play as well as well as the sum of their parts.
The point is that you don't need the best players in every position to play well as a team. And it appears as though Mourinho needs just that. Another 70 million CB to complete the picture. Another 100 million attacker to finish the product. It shouldn't be required to play good football.
And England are actually a decent example to highlight our shortcomings. Their personnel is nothing special. But they play cohesive, organised and fluid football. Sure they come unstuck against better teams as you'd expect but they generally play as well as well as the sum of their parts.
The point is that you don't need the best players in every position to play well as a team. And it appears as though Mourinho needs just that. Another 70 million CB to complete the picture. Another 100 million attacker to finish the product. It shouldn't be required to play good football.
I'd rather it happen now but I think end of season when we don't win anything and either miss out on top 4 or just about get it while playing poorly.
The new coaching team is all but waste then. Nothing has changed.
He is just past it. We've got some amazing individuals but it always feels like as soon as they get to United, they forget to play football.
That is not a coincidence because if you look at the likes of KDB and Salah and many others, they became really great after Mourinho.
I'm sure the same will happen here as soon as we get rid of him. You will see flair players looking amazing. Its time to get rid of him. The sooner the better.
That is not a coincidence because if you look at the likes of KDB and Salah and many others, they became really great after Mourinho.
I'm sure the same will happen here as soon as we get rid of him. You will see flair players looking amazing. Its time to get rid of him. The sooner the better.
Out of all bigger sides we have the most archaic/old fashioned tactical set up. So it's not unsurprising for us to look the worst coached.
That won't be enough either if we had gotten that and still looked poor.
Then they'll(the Jose defenders) say we need players like Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo etc.
I have no clue how anyone can defend him at this point.
Sarri came into Napoli and applied his positional play without much investment(they sold their best attacker in Higuain) and essentially zero world class players. It took some time, but by the time he left Napoli, he truly stamped his mark on the team.
But Jose always needs more players. The notion that was spreading through the forum that if we had gotten Toby A. - we'd start building out from the back was nonsensical.
We've spent so much money and we literally look a kick-about team in the park. 11 strangers playing together for fun.
And then to make it worse, our 2 biggest rivals have managers to elevate their teams and employ a clear structure.
I have no idea why people thought it'd serve up major changes.
Jose has shown no ability to change.
Probably.
Zero faith in Woodward overseeing these footballing decisions. He waited so long to sack Moyes/Van Gaal when the rot had set in.
I highly doubt Woodward would sack Jose mid-season.
Why was it Non sensical? He is a better defender and better passer. Jose depends on solid defenses with his mediocre attacking coaching.
Because Jose Mourinho has never ever actively looked to build out from the back with any of his teams.
A change in personnel doesn't change how he views the game.
At least he would have been defensively solid and commanded the area, as he can read dangers well in advance .
5h on goal difference though so it's not like we were long way behind and we've since signed Pogba and Lukaku who are miles better than the options we had back then not to mention Sanchez. The problem is the rest of the league have all signed fantastic managers so Jose is nothing special compared to them.
If anyone thinks Jose needed a new CB to beat Brighton, then this tweet puts things in perspective:
I'd argue that's a worse backline than the one we had yesterday. Not that difficult for Liverpool though, is it?
The easiest way to identify a good manager is to look at the performances of the players before, during, and after their time under that manager. I can't think of anyone in our squad apart from Lingard who has improved under Mourinho. On the other hand, numerous players have regressed or stagnated. Martial, Pogba, Rashford, Shaw, Alexis and many more have all looked worse or no better than they did at previous clubs or under LVG.
The players just look lost when trying to attack. Just look how aimless our center backs are when they get the ball in comparison to the deliberate and incisiveness of their counterparts at Liverpool, City, and Spurs. It isn't just down to the lack of ability from the players. Lindelof was highly regarded on the ball and we rarely see anything from him apart from a short pass to a center mid or a pass to the fullback/center back. I would love to know how many passes our center backs have completed to our forwards and wingers in comparison to other top clubs because I doubt it happens more than once or twice a game. You don't see the midfielders of other teams constantly dropping deep to pick up the ball from defense because they have a clear system of how to play the ball from the back with coordinated movement to open up spaces. When our midfielders get the ball, there are then 11 players between them and the goal and the only options are the front 3. This isn't even addressing the fact that we aren't any better once we do actually manage to get the ball in and around the box where we pretty much rely on moments of individual brilliance or opponent mistakes.
The players just look lost when trying to attack. Just look how aimless our center backs are when they get the ball in comparison to the deliberate and incisiveness of their counterparts at Liverpool, City, and Spurs. It isn't just down to the lack of ability from the players. Lindelof was highly regarded on the ball and we rarely see anything from him apart from a short pass to a center mid or a pass to the fullback/center back. I would love to know how many passes our center backs have completed to our forwards and wingers in comparison to other top clubs because I doubt it happens more than once or twice a game. You don't see the midfielders of other teams constantly dropping deep to pick up the ball from defense because they have a clear system of how to play the ball from the back with coordinated movement to open up spaces. When our midfielders get the ball, there are then 11 players between them and the goal and the only options are the front 3. This isn't even addressing the fact that we aren't any better once we do actually manage to get the ball in and around the box where we pretty much rely on moments of individual brilliance or opponent mistakes.
He's trying to do that now, hence the Baily and Lindelof combo but he's doing that because he's out of ideas and has no plans to catch City so, he's throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Reminds me of Moyes and his formation changes.
the blind faith/loyalty i have seen expressed for this guy by some United fans is so puzzling to me
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