Jorginho

Status
Not open for further replies.
Matic is the typical holding player. He will stay deep, win the ball and move the ball up in an efficient manner. Jorginho is what the Italians call a Regista ie a deep lying playmaker on steroids. He's quite an engine (average 11km+ per game), he's constantly in the thick of the action (according to OPTA he's in the top 5 list in Europe with most touches of the ball) and his passing is brutally efficient (around 91% successful passing).

So were he will play? He won't be replacing Matic that's for sure. Matic is 6ft4 and is built like a brick wall. Even the most cultured of defensive midfielders (Carrick) was 6ft3. Jorginho is 5ft11 and is certainly not built to be the main defensive midfielder. What Jorginho will do is to slot right in between Matic and Pogba. The former is purely DM, the other is purely AM, Jorginho will aid both. As said he's quite an engine so he'll help Matic win the ball. On the other hand his long range passing will allow Jorginho to contribute in the creative department. Currently we can't afford not playing Matic as Herrera doesn't contribute enough in DM and Pogba's contribution at the back is rather limited (pathetic really). With Jorginho in the team we can afford playing TFM as Jorginho will surely help him out.
 
He isn't 100 million, but 50-60 euros plus 15 in bonuses is reasonable i think. If there are others interested maybe up to 75 plus bonuses though that's expensive and maybe switching to an alternative target makes more sense. I really like him, only weakness is probably his ability to win aerial challenges. But his vertical passing is so good it will help speed up our attack alot.
 
devilish said:
Matic is the typical holding player. He will stay deep, win the ball and move the ball up in an efficient manner. Jorginho is what the Italians call a Regista ie a deep lying playmaker on steroids. He's quite an engine (average 11km+ per game), he's constantly in the thick of the action (according to OPTA he's in the top 5 list in Europe with most touches of the ball) and his passing is brutally efficient (around 91% successful passing).

So were he will play? He won't be replacing Matic that's for sure. Matic is 6ft4 and is built like a brick wall. Even the most cultured of defensive midfielders (Carrick) was 6ft3. Jorginho is 5ft11 and is certainly not built to be the main defensive midfielder. What Jorginho will do is to slot right in between Matic and Pogba. The former is purely DM, the other is purely AM, Jorginho will aid both. As said he's quite an engine so he'll help Matic win the ball. On the other hand his long range passing will allow Jorginho to contribute in the creative department. Currently we can't afford not playing Matic as Herrera doesn't contribute enough in DM and Pogba's contribution at the back is rather limited (pathetic really). With Jorginho in the team we can afford playing TFM as Jorginho will surely help him out.
Click to expand...

Most detailed analysis on this matter I've seen yet and it fits perfectly with what I want to hear so I'm choosing to believe this.
 
beingshe7don said:
We were in for Seri and now Jorginho? Jorginho looks to be a Carrick replacement and would possibly play at the bottom of the pyramid in a 4-3-3 which would mean Matic wouldn't feature. Is Jose still trying to pursue a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3? Does anyone think that Pogba - Matic - Jorginho would be a great partnership?
Click to expand...

Who says Matic can`t play further forward as a cm with a cdm behind him?
 
P-Nut0712 said:
Most detailed analysis on this matter I've seen yet and it fits perfectly with what I want to hear so I'm choosing to believe this.
Click to expand...

I've never really seen Jorginho play but the bit about him being heavily involved in the game is definitely true. There was an Opta stat from a Napoli game last season where Jorginho had played 198 passes in the game. The number might not be that exactly but it was an absolutely outrageous number. I wonder if he could do the role Xavi used to play for Barceloa and dictate games from the right of a midfield 3.
 
How old is he?

If he is 29 plus then i sincerely hope we are not thinking of spending in excess of €50m on him.
 
SomeRandomPerson said:
I've never really seen Jorginho play but the bit about him being heavily involved in the game is definitely true. There was an Opta stat from a Napoli game last season where Jorginho had played 198 passes in the game. The number might not be that exactly but it was an absolutely outrageous number. I wonder if he could do the role Xavi used to play for Barceloa and dictate games from the right of a midfield 3.
Click to expand...

He'll sit nicely between the DM and AM helping them both. That's quite significant. Currently we're having to keep Pogba under restraints as we can't afford giving him too much licence to cause chaos upfront without exposing CM. Matic-Jorginho would allow him to play his natural game. It would also allow us to move Mata in a deeper CM role (ie the most attacking option in a 4-3-3 system)

4-2-3-1 is slowing becoming the new 4-4-2. That's because it leaves a gap between defence and midfield that can be easily exploited. 4-3-3 is the way to go.
 
Oaencha said:
Auba is 28 and seems to have already peaked. He also has alleged attitude issues and is causing problems for the club.

Weigl is 22, very talented and has massive potential. He is definitely worth more than Auba.
Click to expand...

He is 28 at his peak, his contract is util 2021 and he is being hailed as one of the best attackers in the world. Strikers are always worth more than attackers too.

@Nate Dogg Jorginho is 26. Don't know who is better Jorginho or Weigl but I trust Jose
 
P-Nut0712 said:
Most detailed analysis on this matter I've seen yet and it fits perfectly with what I want to hear so I'm choosing to believe this.
Click to expand...

The only fear I'd have about signing him is that he seems to have played his best football as a 6 and he'd mostly be an 8 here, though I'd also note that I could see this sort of lineup helping us blow away weaker teams at home:

------------Lukaku-------------
Sanchez-Mata/Lingard-Martial
-------Pogba-Jorginho------
-----------Back 4------------

or

-----Sanchez-Lukaku----
Martial---------------Mata/Lingard
-------Pogba-Jorginho------
-----------Back 4------------

The passing statistics are incredible, though. Exciting to think he could be our Kroos, Pogba our Modric and Matic our stronger but less mobile Casemiro in a midfield with comparable balance to that one, or Gerrard-Xabi-Mascherano
 
Rake said:
He is 28 at his peak, his contract is util 2021 and he is being hailed as one of the best attackers in the world. Strikers are always worth more than attackers too.

@Nate Dogg Jorginho is 26. Don't know who is better Jorginho or Weigl but I trust Jose
Click to expand...
He’s a good striker, no doubt about it. My original point was that Dortmund are only looking for £60m because they want to move him on. Weigl is an important player for them and it will take a crazy bid for them to sell.
 
NoPace said:
The only fear I'd have about signing him is that he seems to have played his best football as a 6 and he'd mostly be an 8 here, though I'd also note that I could see this sort of lineup helping us blow away weaker teams at home:

------------Lukaku-------------
Sanchez-Mata/Lingard-Martial
-------Pogba-Jorginho------
-----------Back 4------------

or

-----Sanchez-Lukaku----
Martial---------------Mata/Lingard
-------Pogba-Jorginho------
-----------Back 4------------

The passing statistics are incredible, though. Exciting to think he could be our Kroos, Pogba our Modric and Matic our stronger but less mobile Casemiro in a midfield with comparable balance to that one, or Gerrard-Xabi-Mascherano
Click to expand...

Yeah I've been making the point lately that we need a defensive minded midfielder that has a good passing range. Only caveat that's missing from my ideal midfielder would be the box to box engine.

The perfect midfielder for us, in my eyes, would be good engine, defensive shift and excellent passing range.

There doesn't seem to be a single player out there who ticks all 3 boxes strangely enough.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
Matic looks exhausted playing as a DM. Having him running up and down as a box-to-box would break him.
Click to expand...

Do you think it has something to do with the fact that Mourinho never rest him? Matic has over 11km per 90min as a CDM so I really don´t think it would be any problem for him to play as a right sided CM.
 
P-Nut0712 said:
Yeah I've been making the point lately that we need a defensive minded midfielder that has a good passing range. Only caveat that's missing from my ideal midfielder would be the box to box engine.

The perfect midfielder for us, in my eyes, would be good engine, defensive shift and excellent passing range.

There doesn't seem to be a single player out there who ticks all 3 boxes strangely enough.
Click to expand...

Like Gabi at his peak?
 
MasterOfMuppets said:
Do you think it has something to do with the fact that Mourinho never rest him? Matic has over 11km per 90min as a CDM so I really don´t think it would be any problem for him to play as a right sided CM.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, didn't know he actually covered that much ground, and he has played a lot without proper rest. Still don't think he would fit in that role at this point though.
 
Interesting statistic. Who scored has jorginho listed as the player with the second highest average amount of passes per game in Europe, behind only marco verratti. Jean Michael Series is something like sixth. Looks like seri is the backup plan with the news that we've been in talks with jorginhos agent. Would be an obvious carrick replacement with that skill-set.
 
devilish said:
Matic is the typical holding player. He will stay deep, win the ball and move the ball up in an efficient manner. Jorginho is what the Italians call a Regista ie a deep lying playmaker on steroids. He's quite an engine (average 11km+ per game), he's constantly in the thick of the action (according to OPTA he's in the top 5 list in Europe with most touches of the ball) and his passing is brutally efficient (around 91% successful passing).

So were he will play? He won't be replacing Matic that's for sure. Matic is 6ft4 and is built like a brick wall. Even the most cultured of defensive midfielders (Carrick) was 6ft3. Jorginho is 5ft11 and is certainly not built to be the main defensive midfielder. What Jorginho will do is to slot right in between Matic and Pogba. The former is purely DM, the other is purely AM, Jorginho will aid both. As said he's quite an engine so he'll help Matic win the ball. On the other hand his long range passing will allow Jorginho to contribute in the creative department. Currently we can't afford not playing Matic as Herrera doesn't contribute enough in DM and Pogba's contribution at the back is rather limited (pathetic really). With Jorginho in the team we can afford playing TFM as Jorginho will surely help him out.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but I don't understand why a DM has to be 6 feet tall. Jorginho is 5ft11, Xabi Alonso is 6ft tall, Busquets is 6ft2. Does an inch or two make that much of a difference especially if the player is good at reading play like Carrick.
IMHO Jorginho can play as DM giving Matic some much needed rest.He can play as #8 too but from what little I've seen of him, he isn't the most mobile, is not the best tackler, he stays deep and pings passes around, at least that's my take, maybe someone who has seen him more can corroborate.
Also didn't Mourinho say he is looking for a Carrick replacement, which means he would mostly play whomever he buys as DM.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MasterOfMuppets said:
Do you think it has something to do with the fact that Mourinho never rest him? Matic has over 11km per 90min as a CDM so I really don´t think it would be any problem for him to play as a right sided CM.
Click to expand...
Don't you think it's bit of a defensive overkill playing with two DMs and a #8-#10 hybrid.
The perfect #8 in our system would be an all rounder, a guy who can create chances and defend.
Vidal, Nainggolan, Kovacic, Alcantara, Modric, Verratti, SMS, Seri would all be very good.
A Pogba Matic Jorginho midfield would be very good if we are looking to park the bus, but then again that midfield is a bit static, no one who can run around press and chase down opposition players.
 
Sanche7 said:
I'm sorry but I don't understand why a DM has to be 6 feet tall. Jorginho is 5ft11, Xabi Alonso is 6ft tall, Busquets is 6ft2. Does an inch or two make that much of a difference especially if the player is good at reading play like Carrick.
IMHO Jorginho can play as DM giving Matic some much needed rest.He can play as #8 too but from what little I've seen of him, he isn't the most mobile, is not the best tackler, he stays deep and pings passes around, at least that's my take, maybe someone who has seen him more can corroborate.
Also didn't Mourinho say he is looking for a Carrick replacement, which means he would mostly play whomever he buys as DM.
Click to expand...

Its not just the inches but also his skillset and his build. Look at him. Does he remind you of a Roy Keane?

I've been following the EPL and the Serie A for quite some time now (3 decades?). He can play as DM in the latter but I can't see him doing the same in the former, not without additional help. Its a different role really. The typical DM will win the ball, move it to the correct channels and he will disrupt play. The regista is way less efficient in the former and much more efficient in the latter.
 
Last edited:
Sultan said:
There's enough strength with Pogba and Matic. Mata provides that technical touch.
Click to expand...
What technical touch? All Mata does is pass it backwards and sideways. We need a CM with better passing range, someone who can cut open defences.
 
Sanche7 said:
Don't you think it's bit of a defensive overkill playing with two DMs and a #8-#10 hybrid.
The perfect #8 in our system would be an all rounder, a guy who can create chances and defend.
Vidal, Nainggolan, Kovacic, Alcantara, Modric, Verratti, SMS, Seri would all be very good.
A Pogba Matic Jorginho midfield would be very good if we are looking to park the bus, but then again that midfield is a bit static, no one who can run around press and chase down opposition players.
Click to expand...

Jorginho is the slightly more defensive version of Verratti. Dont forget that matic lacks cover and will soon turn 30. He will need help soon enough

This article is a bit old but will give you a clear picture of what we are getting

https://www.football-italia.net/106177/appreciating-jorginho
 
Sultan said:
There's enough strength with Pogba and Matic. Mata provides that technical touch.
Click to expand...
Mata isn't creative enough. He just has good touches and safe short passes, but no eye for curving out opening against tight defenses. Our midfielders need to be far more expansive and creative.
 
P-Nut0712 said:
Yeah I've been making the point lately that we need a defensive minded midfielder that has a good passing range. Only caveat that's missing from my ideal midfielder would be the box to box engine.

The perfect midfielder for us, in my eyes, would be good engine, defensive shift and excellent passing range.

There doesn't seem to be a single player out there who ticks all 3 boxes strangely enough.
Click to expand...
Nainggolan, Verratti, Vidal and Barella are a few.
 
Sanche7 said:
I'm sorry but I don't understand why a DM has to be 6 feet tall. Jorginho is 5ft11, Xabi Alonso is 6ft tall, Busquets is 6ft2. Does an inch or two make that much of a difference especially if the player is good at reading play like Carrick.
IMHO Jorginho can play as DM giving Matic some much needed rest.He can play as #8 too but from what little I've seen of him, he isn't the most mobile, is not the best tackler, he stays deep and pings passes around, at least that's my take, maybe someone who has seen him more can corroborate.
Also didn't Mourinho say he is looking for a Carrick replacement, which means he would mostly play whomever he buys as DM.
Click to expand...

Makelele was 5 ft 5.. Fernandinho is 5 ft 8. So don't buy this height thing. Ever since Jose has come here, people have this real pre-occupation with height, its an obsession which needs to be nipped in the bud.
 
SS said:
Nainggolan, Verratti, Vidal and Barella are a few.
Click to expand...

The first three aren't what you'd call pure DM's, they're B2B midfielders or in Verratti's case a controlling midfielder.

For me Rabiot would be an ideal fit, but anyone from PSG is unattainable.
 
Raees said:
The first three aren't what you'd call pure DM's, they're B2B midfielders or in Verratti's case a controlling midfielder.

For me Rabiot would be an ideal fit, but anyone from PSG is unattainable.
Click to expand...
I thought he was talking about B2Bs to play alongside Matic and Pogba, but I may have misunderstood.
 
SS said:
Nainggolan, Verratti, Vidal and Barella are a few.
Click to expand...

Raees said:
The first three aren't what you'd call pure DM's, they're B2B midfielders or in Verratti's case a controlling midfielder.

For me Rabiot would be an ideal fit, but anyone from PSG is unattainable.
Click to expand...

SS said:
I thought he was talking about B2Bs to play alongside Matic and Pogba, but I may have misunderstood.
Click to expand...

No you was right and yeah I agree they are probably most suited, but most are unattainable. Verrati is going nowhere soon. I've posted in the Vidal thread saying he'd be perfect for what we need right now, although followers of the bundesliga seem to not rate him quite as highly as previously. Thiago would be ideal, but for his injury problems. And I've got to admit I've not seen Barella.
 
It feels like the lindelof deal, where it is done for the summer and just needs to be rubber stamped, expect it to go through quickly unless an absolute world class midfielder becomes available.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.