Why only few games in Italy national team?
Jorginho
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Him and Matic in the same midfield would be an unmitigated disaster imo.
As others who watch Italian football have mentioned he’s a very inflexible player. He needs to be at the base of a midfield 3 with 2 other players that are box-to-box and very efficient is quick one-twos and pass and move game.
He doesn’t have the speed or stamina or overall athleticism to be a box-to-box player and equally Matic is not very useful further up the pitch. His physical limitations is what really worries me about making it here as DLP.
A midfield of Pogba-Jorginho-Pereira might work. So he could be used in theory be used in rotation with Matic, but then we’re getting him to be a backup. In which case I’d rather have Herrera for the back up DM role and invest in another good box-to-box CM to have along with Pogba and Pereira next year.
As others who watch Italian football have mentioned he’s a very inflexible player. He needs to be at the base of a midfield 3 with 2 other players that are box-to-box and very efficient is quick one-twos and pass and move game.
He doesn’t have the speed or stamina or overall athleticism to be a box-to-box player and equally Matic is not very useful further up the pitch. His physical limitations is what really worries me about making it here as DLP.
A midfield of Pogba-Jorginho-Pereira might work. So he could be used in theory be used in rotation with Matic, but then we’re getting him to be a backup. In which case I’d rather have Herrera for the back up DM role and invest in another good box-to-box CM to have along with Pogba and Pereira next year.
They’d always be willing to sell for a good price. They’re not rolling in it.
Some weeks before be called for Italy to the last games of the wc qualifiers, he was in talks with the Brazilian coach Tite to know about his chances to be in the Brazilian nt but apparently Tite doesnt want to change his line up so close to the world cup, according to Brazilian media.
So i dont know if he was waiting a decision from Brazil nt or he just was not in the plan of the Italian coach before.
Italy has been very mismanaged recently.
Few questions:
1A. Is this guy a one hit wonder / how many comparable seasons has he had in the past to the one he’s having now?
1B. Why is Napoli willing to sell him if he’s as advertised and how much are they looking to get in return for his sale? / is there even any genuine reports out there linking him to United or is it just heresay?
2A. He’s a DM just like Matic...would both be able to start in a midfield 3 along with Pogba? If so, assuming Matic is the one to play DM, is Jorginho even capable / have experience further up as a CM to play beside Pogba and away from his usual DM role?
2B. If that’s the case, why even risk getting him for what I’m guessing would be a considerable amount of money and bank on him to play his off-position, as a starter, in a new league which he’ll have to adjust to on top of figuring out a new position, all while expecting him to complete and solve our midfield? Isn’t that a bit ridiculous to expect all that to align for it to work out on United’s end? Wouldn’t it be smarter to just get a proper CM instead to play alongside Pogba, someone like Sergej Milinkovic-Savic, who’s a better player than Jorginho who would be the better and more obvious fit?
...He’s also 4 years younger than Jorginho (26) and many say he has the potential to be the next best midfielder in the world along with being the impact player he already is at this moment in time. And just looking at things from a Mourinho POV, Jorginho seems off since he’s rather small for José’s liking at 5’10” whereas SMS comes in at 6’3”.
Idk if it’s just me but Jorginho would just seem like a “meh” signing no different to Mikhi or most we’ve signed since SAF left. United have shelled out tons of money and gotten very little output from the players in return. I have this gut feeling Jorginho would be more or less that. He’s definitely not a world class player and he’s not young enough where he won’t significantly improve to develop into such a player. United need world class talent so I’d much rather prefer SMS who has that potential and is the better now player, plus would actually fit the CM role whereas Jorginho would unnecessarily be asked to learn it and play it at a high level which I’m afraid he wouldn’t be able to aka succeed let alone meet expectations. Despite Savic being a CM unlike Jorginho (DM), defensively he’s better than the latter, along with being physically stronger, better at moving the ball around (dribbling+passing), and he has a much much better shot. Savic isn’t slow by any means but the only thing Jorginho might have on him is top end speed and that having to due with the considerable height differential as well.
Imo would be a bit of a head scratcher to get Jorginho when Savic could be had at the same ballpark and actually fit the position at a near world class level from the very get-go. Jorginho is a DM so that alone is a red flag whereas SMS is a CM and has played DM before and has enough skill+quality to be able to do so if Matic goes down or whatnot. Makes even more sense looking at it that way whereas Jorginho we’d be working with backwards by telling him to play CM when it’s not even his natural position. Don’t know if it’s just me but all signs point to getting a natural CM like Savic who’d actually be suited to play the position, who’s younger, better in just about every category, very close to being world class, and able to play DM (versatility) if Matic gets a knock. I just think he’d be the perfect link up man between Pogba and Matic to completely solve the midfield and unfortunately for Jorginho he may not even be a fit for the role he’d be asked to play so I just don’t get spending and risking money on him when there are better and much more suited players out there at around the same price range.
1A. Is this guy a one hit wonder / how many comparable seasons has he had in the past to the one he’s having now?
1B. Why is Napoli willing to sell him if he’s as advertised and how much are they looking to get in return for his sale? / is there even any genuine reports out there linking him to United or is it just heresay?
2A. He’s a DM just like Matic...would both be able to start in a midfield 3 along with Pogba? If so, assuming Matic is the one to play DM, is Jorginho even capable / have experience further up as a CM to play beside Pogba and away from his usual DM role?
2B. If that’s the case, why even risk getting him for what I’m guessing would be a considerable amount of money and bank on him to play his off-position, as a starter, in a new league which he’ll have to adjust to on top of figuring out a new position, all while expecting him to complete and solve our midfield? Isn’t that a bit ridiculous to expect all that to align for it to work out on United’s end? Wouldn’t it be smarter to just get a proper CM instead to play alongside Pogba, someone like Sergej Milinkovic-Savic, who’s a better player than Jorginho who would be the better and more obvious fit?
...He’s also 4 years younger than Jorginho (26) and many say he has the potential to be the next best midfielder in the world along with being the impact player he already is at this moment in time. And just looking at things from a Mourinho POV, Jorginho seems off since he’s rather small for José’s liking at 5’10” whereas SMS comes in at 6’3”.
Idk if it’s just me but Jorginho would just seem like a “meh” signing no different to Mikhi or most we’ve signed since SAF left. United have shelled out tons of money and gotten very little output from the players in return. I have this gut feeling Jorginho would be more or less that. He’s definitely not a world class player and he’s not young enough where he won’t significantly improve to develop into such a player. United need world class talent so I’d much rather prefer SMS who has that potential and is the better now player, plus would actually fit the CM role whereas Jorginho would unnecessarily be asked to learn it and play it at a high level which I’m afraid he wouldn’t be able to aka succeed let alone meet expectations. Despite Savic being a CM unlike Jorginho (DM), defensively he’s better than the latter, along with being physically stronger, better at moving the ball around (dribbling+passing), and he has a much much better shot. Savic isn’t slow by any means but the only thing Jorginho might have on him is top end speed and that having to due with the considerable height differential as well.
Imo would be a bit of a head scratcher to get Jorginho when Savic could be had at the same ballpark and actually fit the position at a near world class level from the very get-go. Jorginho is a DM so that alone is a red flag whereas SMS is a CM and has played DM before and has enough skill+quality to be able to do so if Matic goes down or whatnot. Makes even more sense looking at it that way whereas Jorginho we’d be working with backwards by telling him to play CM when it’s not even his natural position. Don’t know if it’s just me but all signs point to getting a natural CM like Savic who’d actually be suited to play the position, who’s younger, better in just about every category, very close to being world class, and able to play DM (versatility) if Matic gets a knock. I just think he’d be the perfect link up man between Pogba and Matic to completely solve the midfield and unfortunately for Jorginho he may not even be a fit for the role he’d be asked to play so I just don’t get spending and risking money on him when there are better and much more suited players out there at around the same price range.
He would have been perfect if we didn't have Matic, or if he could play further up the pitch.
We lack a player like him in the team, but since we have Matic, I think we would be better off with someone that plays an advanced position and a bit more dynamic - Modric, De bruyne, Rakitic and Verratti to an extent.
He's not being the greatest and only began to show consistency when Sarri replaced Benitez and played a system that suits him, which kind of shows he only fits in a specific system. Last season, Sarri rotated him and Allan with Zielinski and Diawara, but this season, he's been the pick in midfield alongside Hamsik.
The Mirror, Sun, MEN and many other papers have reported it. I don't know if there's any truth in it - it's being quoted at 40m. I don't know if Napoli are willing to sell, if they are, then they have a very capable replacement in Diawara, a DLP-DM hybrid, waiting in the wings.
Yes, he do have the experience of playing as a CM, but like I mentioned, he was nothing special until Sarri moved him nominally to a DM role where he's flourished.
He lacks the athleticism to play in an outright advanced role in a 433, so I don't think he'd make a good combination with Matic especially when you consider the fact that Pogba is not really an AM, so I doubt a double DM team could work, but it might work.
@Mcking appecriciate the response!
And yea doesn’t seem like he’d be the fit we’re looking for as your comments only further suggest that. If anything it’d just add to the mediocrity from the previous years. I’m wishing and hopeful United move past that as José has recently mentioned by biting the bullet and just getting quality guys. Why cheap out at £40M and knowingly settle for less in an average player when you can pay up £10M-15M or so more and get a top quality guy who’d actually be a fit and is on the verge of being world class? Cmon United, let’s not feck this up and start being smarter.
And yea doesn’t seem like he’d be the fit we’re looking for as your comments only further suggest that. If anything it’d just add to the mediocrity from the previous years. I’m wishing and hopeful United move past that as José has recently mentioned by biting the bullet and just getting quality guys. Why cheap out at £40M and knowingly settle for less in an average player when you can pay up £10M-15M or so more and get a top quality guy who’d actually be a fit and is on the verge of being world class? Cmon United, let’s not feck this up and start being smarter.
I think you are wrong. Him and matic could be perfect alongside eachother and in rotation. He could release Pogba too. It is like that partnership we had with scholes and carrick where two number6's helped out in defense and were extremely good play-makers.
Jorginho is a very good passer, probably the best in italy. His passes are usually forward and he is very difficult to close down. If someone could post him vs matic vs Kroos vs Busquests in that squakwa comparison thingy it would be great.
Here is the comparison AVERAGE PER GAME
Jorginho-------Matic-----Fernandinho ----Kroos----Busquests
Forward Passes- 61.19--------45.82-------55.23--------47.54-----47.81
Backward pass- 32.13--------20.95-------.28.77-----------25.69-----22.44
Total passes- 93.75--------67.00--------84.68---------73.46-----70.37
Succesful pass- 84.44--------57.32------76.23---------67.08-----63.69
Chances created- 1.19---------00.50--------0.64----------2.0--------0.50
Key passes- 1.00---------0.45---------0.50----------1.92-------0.37
Posession score- 21.20--------4.50--------15.12---------21.02----- 14.78
Interceptions- 1.56---------1.91---------1.55-----------0.62--------1.56
Tackles won- 1.44---------1.05---------0.86----------1.31--------1.69
You can see he is a possession magnet and also he makes good interceptions and tackles. He has only played 16 games(same as kroos/Sergio) and done better in many stats. I think this could be a great signing for us, also perfect age as he just turned 26.
This as well.
United simply aren’t in a position to take on such an unnecessary risk by dishing out a considerable amount of money when he wouldn’t solve much for our team. There are other positions of need that money can go towards in a much more efficient manner and yea I just don’t see this. Pretty much nothing adds up from his position to working in a mid3 with Matic to not being able to play CM as an impact player. I would be pretty pissed off if this is what United settle for. Like why even bother? Makes virtually no sense. This is what we have to move away from and start bringing in legitimate quality that suits our team/manager/formation needs.
Well, you really confessed your love for Savic there. Have you watched Jorginho play? Anyway, there's a lot of things I agree with that post and a lot of things I disagree with too.
You could argue that Savic would suit us better, but maybe Jose has a plan?
The current Savic is not better than the current Jorginho, looking from a pure footballing perspective. Savic, although more mobile than Jorginho, relies on his physique and ball-shielding rather than his feet when dribbling, which enables him to barge through opponents, something Jorginho doesn't have. Savic though, is no patch on Jorginho technically. Although Savic is a good shooter and good at hitting through balls that at times come off or doesn't come off. Jorginho doesn't shoot a lot as he plays in a deep position but certainly betters Savic in the latter and passes far more precisely, why having excellent close control and a better delivery. He's better at playmaking, with better vision and on-the-ball variety. He's like a poor man's Pirlo compared to Savic who is a poor man's Pogba.
You also said Savic can replace Matic when he's indisposed. Sure, Savic is pretty good defensively, but that limits to one-on-one defending. Positionally, he's awful compared to Jorginho who has top notch positioning and reads the game far better from a defensive perspection.
Asking Savic to play at DM will make asking Pogba to play at DM look like top notch decision making. Savic is not even a CM, he's an AM and like Pogba, requires to be freed from defensive duties. He will certainly play more advanced than Pogba if he joins too.
All in all, Savic has the potential to reach a high level, but so does Jorginho in the rt system.
Those stats are the ones he got playing at the base of a three man midfield though, a position that is probably unavailable in our team right now.
If we sign him, Pogba and Matic's presence means we will defo play a 433, so there's no comparison with the Carrick/Scholes partnership when we played 442, unless we will play Pogba at No.10 were he's poor at.
Playing a two-man DM mean you will need a bonafide No.10 who is willing to stay high up the pitch for more than 80% of the game, which Pogba is not. He will keep dropping deep to find space, meaning we will have three midfielders on the defensive, more often than not.
Don't get me wrong, Jorginho is a good player in the right system, but a
Jorginho Matic
Pogba
midfield doesn't look balanced.Yes, another very good shout. There are many out there that would suit like-; Weigl, Savic, Goretzka, Fabinho, Kroos, but can we get any of them, or has Mourinho someone else in mind like:- Dier, Dendoncker, or someone who have been scouted that we have never heard of. We will have to wait and see.
I'm pretty sure both of those were scouted for the Matic role. Dier is not a real CM and he'll have no real interest in him now.
———-Matic———
—Kovacic—Pogba—
Do it.
—Kovacic—Pogba—
Do it.
This would be pretty much perfect.
Pogba-Jorginho-Matic IMO could work, I think you're under-selling Matic's ability to be involved in the attacking phases high up the pitch, he's not a creative midfielder but he's extremely comfortable and accomplished on the ball and would definitely be able to contribute to the build-up.
I think the main problem is that Jorginho's lack of physicality, especially on the counter, would probably be shown up more in the PL than it is in Serie A, and he would likely need Matic sitting alongside him, protecting him. That places undue emphasis once again on Pogba to be the sole attacking presence from midfield.
They can't be that poor surely, they bought higuin for huge money a season or two back.
Not poor, but they're hardly rich either. They'll sell if we offer them what they want
I recommended this guy last year. He reads the game so damn well.
Does Kovacic feature lots for RM?
They would probably sell for the right price, but not to us.
I'm dreaming.
Is he similar to Carrick?
He's played 4 league games this season, starting just once against Barcelona. He's started 2 Champions league games and once in the copa de ley with a sub appearance.
Overall:
La liga 4
UCL 2
Copa de ley 2
Super copa 2
CWC 1
He's played only about 500 minutes all season (only about 150 in the league), so no he doesn't play very much.
Would be an ideal signing. Only 23 as well, I for some reason had him down as 26 or something.
RM would want £80m since it is us though, only to turn around and sell him to Liverpool for £40m.
RM would want £80m since it is us though, only to turn around and sell him to Liverpool for £40m.
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Just watching him now for Napoli, he reminds me of Carrick. He's pulling all the strings, like a focal point. Short passes, midrange passes and long passes are all on point with good weight and precision. Almost always forward passes.
Are you talking about kovacic because jorginho is 26
Don't get my hopes up ffs
Talking about Kovacic, sorry to derail the thread.
He looks good from a passing viewpoint. I'll see if I can getter a better understanding of his defensive nous and awareness in the 2nd half.
He's played the least minutes of all Madrid's midfielders with 148 in the league, so Madrid should be open to selling.
He'd be the perfect 3rd midfielder for us and would comfortably be our most comfortable player on the ball. Last season, he completed 59 take-ons @ 82% completion.
No, Zidane labels him as the heir of Modric, Madrid won't selling him.
What did you expect him to say? "He's not very good, we will sell him"? If he's Modric's heir, why is Zidane playing Cabellos ahead of him?
Huh? When did Zidane want to play Cabbelos ahead of Kovacic? Kovacic and Cabbelos played 530+ minutes each in all competitions.
Yes, Kovacic have played a total of 533 compared to 531 for Ceballos. But if you exclude the Supercopa, the Supercup and CWC, then Ceballos have played 521 minutes compared to Kovacic's 335. In the league, Ceballos also have played a total of 6 games and 2 starts which amounts to 186mins compared to Kovacic who have played a total of 4 games and a solitary start for a total of 145mins. He might not even have started if Zidane didn't need him to man-mark Messi.
Surely a 23yearold 'Modric heir' should do better?
It's obvious Ceballos is ahead of him in the pecking order. Kovacic has the least mins of any Real Madrid midfielder in competitive games this season.
I'd prefer Kovacic but I'd take Jorginho over Savic, we don't need another large CM with an intermittent passing game.
No issues mate
Well, kovacic would be awesome but i think we need some players now. Herrera is hopeless and without pogba we are clueless. I will never understand why we are so dormant in January
Carrick is retiring and Matic has no competition. IMO he should be one of two CM's we sign
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