Jorginho

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He's a brilliant, brilliant player but as others have said: Not sure he's a good fit for us. I could see him do a Mkhitaryan.
 
Bit worrying when people think we’re better off not signing quality players because there’s an impression they won’t flourish at the club. Seems to be a reoccurring thought on here at the moment.
 
Rawls said:
If we want to get the best out of Pogba, José will have to play a 4-3-3 IMO. We could go one of two ways: either buy more of a controlling CM or buy more of a Box-to-Box midfielder. I'd say that José is much more likely to go for the B2B option, seeing as he has generally preferred counter-attacking approaches to more possession-based approaches. If anything, José should concentrate on buying a Herrera-Plus CM i.e. a midfielder who is stylistically similar to Herrera, but is more technically proficient. There are quite a few good options off the top of my head, although some may be very expensive; Allan, Saul Niguez, Goretzka are all good examples, with Saul being the best of the three. IMO, this sort of midfielder can generally adapt to any approach; Allan for example is very comfortable in possession for Napoli, but you could imagine him being equally effective in a more defensive approach.
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My big concern with having no controlling CM is that it makes the CL a difficult proposition, top teams don't play without one bar Atleti, but their style of football is soul destroying even compared to Jose's, and the other issue is that we do have possession in the bulk of our PL games whether Jose likes it or not, as most teams sit back and want to play on the counter against us as we are the supposed top side, so it's hard to play counter in most of our games.
If he does go the box to box route then I agree on Goretzka and Saul, the former being on a free would be an added bonus, we've also been linked to Kovacic who I think could be a good option in the role, he's got a bit of everything.
 
SS said:
Isn't he fairly poor at actually defending? I remember a poster (maybe Invictus) pointing out he wasn't very athletic and his tackling was average. He wouldn't look as good in a team like ours as we don't have a possession-based system.
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Doesn't Mourinho want wingers so that he can play a more possession oriented football?
 
Mourinho said in his press conference that we need to replace Carrick in the summer. Could this guy be that man.
 
I’d love him. If we don’t sign him we need someone like him.
 
Rawls said:
Jorginho is a wonderful player to watch; however, him transferring to United under José would unfortunately be neither a good move for the player nor a good move for the club.

Firstly, Jorginho can only play in one style of play: a highly-structured, possession-oriented set-up. If you were to ask him to play in a counter-attacking set-up, you would fail to get the best out of him considering that he's not particularly adept at sitting back out-of-possession for long periods of time. In that sense, you could draw some comparisons between Jorginho and Busquets in that both of them can only play in one style of play.

Secondly, Jorginho shares another thing in common with Busquets in that both of them can only really play in a 4-3-3, and moreover, both of them can only play as the deepest-lying midfielder in a midfield-three. Jorginho lacks the natural athleticism to play further up the pitch; in no way shape or form is he a CM, he is a regista.

Thirdly, Jorginho has thrived at Napoli as the central hub of their build-up play. Napoli's style of play is based on getting several players close by to each other in order to (a) create quick passing options, (b) to draw the opposition out from deep blocks, and (c) to make the opposition's pressing less effective. Napoli's highly-structured attacks allow Jorginho to have a defined role within the team, and allow the other Napoli players to also have a clear and coherent idea of what they are to do in possession (Like City under Pep, and Dortmund last season under Tuchel to a somewhat lesser extent).

Unfortunately, the three necessities just mentioned (Can't play in a classic counter-attacking set-up, must be the deepest-lying midfielder in a 4-3-3, and must play in a highly-structured set-up) would likely not be available to Jorginho at United under José. In the biggest matches of the season, José reverts to a deep, counter-attacking set-up. Moreover, United this season have mainly deployed a midfield-two, so buying Jorginho (In either January or the summer)would likely necessitate a move to a midfield-three. However, both Jorginho and Matic can only play as the deepest-lying midfielder in a 4-3-3; asking either of them to play as more of a CM would be a remarkably foolish move. Thirdly, José's sides have never been highly-structured in possession vis-a-vis Pep' sides or Sarri's sides. Asking Jorginho to play in an unstructured set-up would be a waste of time for a very intelligent player, and would be a waste of resources for a very big club.

Qualitatively-speaking, Jorginho should be the type of player we are looking for. Admittedly, his ceiling may not be as high as the ceiling of someone like Pirlo; however, there are very few deep-lying midfielders around right now IMO who are definitively better than him. What's more, he has only recently just turned 26, which is relatively young for a regista.

However, Jorginho at United under José would not be a good move for either the player or the club. Hypothetically-speaking, Jorginho would be a terrific fit at United if José were to be replaced at the end of the season by someone like Sarri or Tuchel. That's an entirely hypothetical situation however; for as good a player as Jorginho is, him coming to United under José would neither benefit him nor the club.
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Maybe we're heading to a 4-3-3 formation. That will take the best out of Pogba too.
 
Matic is a holding player. He will sit back, win the ball and act like an anchor player in most occasions. Pogba on the other hand is perfect as the most advanced midfielder in a 3 men midfield. We need someone to link Matic with Pogba and Jorginho can be that man.
 
Where does Jorginho usually play?DLP or the Central Midfielder
 
We've been crying out for a player in the iniesta/silva mould for so long now. Someone who can interchange with Pogba in the no 8 and no 10 positions. Any ideas who that could be?
 
devilish said:
Matic is a holding player. He will sit back, win the ball and act like an anchor player in most occasions. Pogba on the other hand is perfect as the most advanced midfielder in a 3 men midfield. We need someone to link Matic with Pogba and Jorginho can be that man.
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Jorginho is also a holding player, so I don't see him being a good fit.
 
devilish said:
He did used a 3 men central midfield at inter (cambiasso, motta and stankovic)
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Oh so long ago. He’s pretty much stuck with the 4231 at Madrid, Chelsea, and us since.
 
Mani said:
So he sit at the base?Don’t we have Matic for that role.
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Yes. I dont get what people are posting here about playing Jorginho-Matic-Pogba in a midfield three. It would be him or Matic in the line up.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Oh so long ago. He’s pretty much stuck with the 4231 at Madrid, Chelsea, and us since.
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Didn't he play a 4-3-3 in his first spell at Chelsea as well with Makelele, Essien, Lampard and then Lampard, Obi Mikel and Ballack? Both sides are more similar to the current United side with Pogba in the Lampard role and another B2B midfielder to go along with Matic.

If I recall correctly he played a diamond in midfield at Porto with Deco, Costinha, Maniche and Mendes.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Didn't he play a 4-3-3 in his first spell at Chelsea as well with Makelele, Essien, Lampard and then Lampard, Obi Mikel and Ballack? Both sides are more similar to the current United side with Pogba in the Lampard role and another B2B midfielder to go along with Matic.

If I recall correctly he played a diamond in midfield at Porto with Deco, Costinha, Maniche and Mendes.
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Again, oh so long ago. Every example is before he took over Madrid. Since then, 4231 is his desired formation.

I really hope he reverts to a 4-3-3 too — but I think he’s hellbent on maintaining a midfield duo with a number 10 ahead of them.
 
Jorginho and Savic would be great additions to the team. Scholes made a very good point that Mourinho needs to stop playing Pogba deep and having him play long balls because that's not his game. Pogba needs to be played in the Lampard role. 4-3-3 is our best formation to go with. It gives us balance as well as connects the midfield to attack. We do NOT need a No. 10. We need wing play and width.

First and foremost, we need to build our team around Pogba and we need to get the best out of him. We played his best football at Juve
Pogba - Pirlo - Vidal (with Pirlo playing deep lying playmaker)

Jorginho would essentially be our Pirlo
Vidal is an all action box to box midfielder. He's not a DM. He attacks and defends with equal tenacity. That's where Savic comes into play or for that matter Matic could also play that role.

Pogba - Jorginho - Savic/ Matic is a strong midfield. It also gives us enough rotation that we require to keep the team fresh.
 
If we could somehow get Jorginho that would be excellent but dealing with their owner might be a headache. Napoli play through the lines if Jorginho comes here he will not only up the tempo in our final third passing but also play those risky passes our players are scared of playing. A three man midfield of Matic, Pogba and Jorginho with Matic as the DM with both players on either side of him would be perfect.
 
SS said:
Jorginho is also a holding player, so I don't see him being a good fit.
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Jorginho is hardly a Matic though. He used to play as a box to box player but he was moved as a regista by Sarri who loves an attacking minded side. Now being a regista is quite a bitch of a role. He's expected to dictate tempo and deliver those hollywood passes that a Pirlo would give, however he's also to be very aggressive and hardworking in his game. Jorginho's agent had once said that his player can run 12km a game which suggest that he wouldn't look too shabby in a box to box midfielder role.

My only concern is his built. Jorginho might have the inches (5ft11) but he's somehow lightweight. I think he's got what it takes to replace Carrick however he won't be able to replace Fellaini.
 
Just buy all the players with names that end with "ho". One of them is bound to turn out like ronaldinho
 
The Dortmund curse is nonsense, Weigl would be an ideal Carrick/Matic replacement.

DWelbz19 said:
Again, oh so long ago. Every example is before he took over Madrid. Since then, 4231 is his desired formation.

I really hope he reverts to a 4-3-3 too — but I think he’s hellbent on maintaining a midfield duo with a number 10 ahead of them.
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He should have never bought Pogba if he wanted to play 4-2-3-1, anymore than you'd buy Neymar and ask him to play as a target man #9. The other thing I don't get with the 4-2-3-1 he used at Real and Chelsea 2.0 is that he had to revert to 4-3-3 in every big game and shunt his #10 wide or drop them.
 
Jose likes to counter but teams at OT don't give us that option. We need to sign someone that can do something with possession. If we want to swap them out in games where we wish to counter then fair enough
 
DannyCAFC said:
Jorginho is better than Weigl right now in my opinion, though Weigl might have more potential and is probably better suited physically to the PL.
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Agreed. Jorginho is currently one of the top midfielders imo
 
luke511 said:
We've been crying out for a player in the iniesta/silva mould for so long now. Someone who can interchange with Pogba in the no 8 and no 10 positions. Any ideas who that could be?
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Lanzini seems the only available one I can think of. Not sure we need that sort of player, we could stick to our roots and opt for a side midfielder instead. Someone to finally take over from late 00's Giggs.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Is this guy better or Weighl (!)?
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About the same level, perhaps Weigl is slightly better from a technically perspective but its no weakness of Jorginho. The German is just really brilliant aith the ball at his feet. Personally prefer Neves over either as he's a better passer and Imo better athletically over either. They both have strong short passing games but aren't ones for the more expansive ones, Neves on the other hand is.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Lanzini seems the only available one I can think of. Not sure we need that sort of player, we could stick to our roots and opt for a side midfielder instead. Someone to finally take over from late 00's Giggs.
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I'd say we need a player like that more than anyone at the moment, players like that are what win you the big games against the technically gifted sides. Pogba is our like for like for KDB, we just need a like for like for Silva.
 
Looks very similar to carrick. Deep lying playmaker, makes an average of 95 passes per game (!!) With a 90% completion rate. Seems to play good through balls as well.
 
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