For my money we'd be wise to bag both.
Jorginho
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That's the narrative from worrisome United fans who want to believe that to make themselves feel better yeah
Anyone who actually watches Liverpool interviews or listens to the manager or actually thinks about last summer and January, knows that it's obviously not true and it's really not hard to prove. First off in the summer we bid £66m for Keita, bid £65m for Lemar and we were willing to spend £65m on Van Dijk. We paid £35m for Ox, £40m for Salah and £8m for Robertson all while telling Coutinho he wasn't going anywhere. Secondly in January after buying Van Dijk we offered Coutinho a £250k contract and captaincy to stay, why would we do that if we'd already spent his money...? Thirdly if it couldn't be any clearer, our manager actually came out and said "We will get all the money" when asked about the Coutinho money dismissing the rumour that the money had already been spent on Van Dijk and Keita. He's not an idiot and there's no way he would say that if it wasn't true.
In terms of FFP, we've spent what, £8m net on average the last 5 seasons? Splashing out £150m net one summer wouldn't breach it as we're very financially stable right now and this influx of UCL quarter final money is only going to improve that stability. We may not have the resources to do that year in year out like you and City but we certainly can afford to do it a couple of times and you're being naive if you don't think we can.
I'd go into all the details on why that investment from the owners will be so beneficial to them as well as the club but I really can't be bothered. Long story short, investing in the squad increases the club value in itself never mind increasing our chances of trophies massively which also increases the club value. They'd very quickly get their money back and more through club value as well if we won something because of it. They've already nearly quadrupled our club value mainly through off field means, now it's naturally time to do it on field as well.
George is decent but not what we need.
The only thing Jorginho and Savic has in common is their workrate. Jorginho is less physically imposing then Savic. He's slightly more hardworking though and his passing is top notch. Savic is a hardworking version of Pogba. Similarly to Pogba he's built like a tank with less dribbling skills but a way better eye for goal as compared to the French man. Savic's only weakness is actually Jorginho's greatest asset (ie his top notch passing ability)
William's son?
Which saw them relegated. Legend my arse!
Hadn’t really watched Jorginho til Friday night and wasn’t impressed at all, think if we’re after that type of midfielder then one of Kroos or Thiago is who we need to target with Verratti as third choice.
Thiago and, in particular, Kroos, are much better players. The problem is one of availability.
This is the reply from deluded Liverpool fans who thinks FSG is here to spend big and win.That's the narrative from worrisome United fans who want to believe that to make themselves feel better yeah
Anyone who actually watches Liverpool interviews or listens to the manager or actually thinks about last summer and January, knows that it's obviously not true and it's really not hard to prove. First off in the summer we bid £66m for Keita, bid £65m for Lemar and we were willing to spend £65m on Van Dijk. We paid £35m for Ox, £40m for Salah and £8m for Robertson all while telling Coutinho he wasn't going anywhere. Secondly in January after buying Van Dijk we offered Coutinho a £250k contract and captaincy to stay, why would we do that if we'd already spent his money...? Thirdly if it couldn't be any clearer, our manager actually came out and said "We will get all the money" when asked about the Coutinho money dismissing the rumour that the money had already been spent on Van Dijk and Keita. He's not an idiot and there's no way he would say that if it wasn't true.
In terms of FFP, we've spent what, £8m net on average the last 5 seasons? Splashing out £150m net one summer wouldn't breach it as we're very financially stable right now and this influx of UCL quarter final money is only going to improve that stability. We may not have the resources to do that year in year out like you and City but we certainly can afford to do it a couple of times and you're being naive if you don't think we can.
I'd go into all the details on why that investment from the owners will be so beneficial to them as well as the club but I really can't be bothered. Long story short, investing in the squad increases the club value in itself never mind increasing our chances of trophies massively which also increases the club value. They'd very quickly get their money back and more through club value as well if we won something because of it. They've already nearly quadrupled our club value mainly through off field means, now it's naturally time to do it on field as well.
First of all, just because you made bids for Keita, Lemar, VVD and etc, doesn't mean you are going to get all of them. For all we know, it could just be a Arsenal style PR stunts throwing in bids who everyone knows won't be accepted but they could at least come out saying: "hey, at least we tried". Think Mbappe.
Secondly, just because your club said Coutinho isn't going anywhere doesn't mean that was the narrative back then? Where is the boy now? Ffs, your club said Suarez won't be going anywhere too. FSG most likely spent the Countinho money in advanced knowing he is leaving. On the 250k contract matter, probably an attempt to save face and letting the supporters know we did our best to keep the player.
Thirdly, coming out saying we will get all the money doesn't imply anything. It could merely be a statement saying the fee would be re-invested back into the team and not being taken by the owners. You must be really naive to think that what is spoken to the media is 100% true.
The last paragraph just highlights your naivety on the matter. FSG is here to make money first then win trophies. Investing in the team would no doubt increase the value of the team, but the question is, how much money is needed and how much return would they get from that investment?
Since you are so confident on Liverpool spending big this summer, be sure to come back when the transfer market opens.
Yeah hes the deluded one. Your argument is basically that every statement and sign of intent from the club and manager in the last year is actually all a bluff and they are lying about everything. I mean you could be right but it sounds like you're grasping at thin air to be honest. I think Liverpool will invest prettt solidly this summer and keep hold of Salah.
When did I say Liverpool won't invest? My argument is that Liverpool won't be spending that big as he would like them to.
They've said that Suarez and Coutinho isn't for sale. Look how that turned out. I won't be surprised if Salah is next.
I wonder if he could do well in a right-sided B2B role and get even more assists that way, or if signing him means we´ll never move on from 4-2-3-1. Anyway, he can be a great Matic replacement in a few years too. Getting him and SMS in would be astute business, them rotating 3 positions with Matic and Pogba. Pereira and McTominay for back-up.
Honestly couldn't have put it much better than @BarcaSpurs, I think we know who the deluded one is here seeing as everything you've said is basically conspiracy theories based on those same stories you're claiming I'm naive for believing. :') Literally everything I've said is sourced from very reliable sources ie Melissa Reddy and Paul Joyce and then typically backed up by TIA and Liverpool Echo.
If we made bids it's pretty clear the money was there and we haven't spent that money since so clearly it must still be there. Our club said Coutinho wasn't going anywhere in the summer and I'm pretty sure he didn't go anywhere then. Different people involved now since Suarez so pretty pointless comparison tbh. So by your logic us offering him £250k a week to stay was more likely a £207m (£142m + 5 year contract at 250k a week) game to keep the supporters happy than a genuine offer because he's a world class player? And you're calling me deluded :')
Well I'm glad we agree on that because that particular £142m hasn't been re-invested back into the squad yet hence my point of we have a good chance of spending £200m+ this summer with summer sales included.
Right... seeing as my entire job is based around business optimisation and business strategy (I'm a Business Consultant at McKinsey) I'm pretty sure I'm not naive when it comes to optimising business value. But anyway before I said I couldn't be bothered to explain why it would be so beneficial for them to invest but you know what just for you I'll take a few minutes as maybe it'll help educate you a little. Typically club valuations are based on 5 key components: profitability, club popularity, sporting potential, broadcasting rights and stadium ownership. By investing heavily in the squad you increase sporting potential massively and if you purchase the correct nationality players you also have a good chance of improving club popularity as well. Mo Salah is a prime example for that as there's been a huge increase in popularity for the club in Egypt. Say for example they decided to spend £70m on Pulisic our popularity in America would increase quite significantly which therefore improves club popularity and in turn increase club value. I don't know exact figures but investing heavily in the squad (say £200m) would probably only cost the owners half that because straight off the bat the sporting potential of the club increases, increasing the club value. Then assuming the club managed to secure regular UCL football and get a trophy or two, profitability goes up as revenue will increase; club popularity and sporting potential will also likely increase as well and so again club value will increase. They'd make their money back and more in no time whatsoever with a bit of club success.
FSG are here to make money before trophies I completely agree but reality is getting trophies and constant UCL makes them way more money. FSG haven't ever taken a dime out this club to the best of my knowledge, any profit it makes is reinvested in some manner. Their profit will come from selling this club and right now if they sold it for it's value they'd make around 800m on their initial investment. It's no coincidence the 4 most successful clubs in the entire world are the 4 most valuable clubs. I'm not denying it's a risk for them investing heavily, but in my view the potential rewards for them massively outweigh the risk factor involved. In my honest opinion them not investing much is far more risky than them investing heavily. With how competitive this league is we could quite easily drop out top 4 next year if we don't strengthen appropriately and if that happens we will without a doubt lose our best players, likely our manager and some of the club value as well.
Don't worry I'll still be around come summer. However I do want to add I've never said we will 100% spend that amount of money just that we could if we wanted to. What I said originally was this: "It really wouldn't shock me to see a £200m+ summer spend from us this summer assuming all our targets are available for "reasonable" prices.". Apologies it's such a long response.
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I never mentioned your club had no money. I was trying to say making multiple bids does not equate to you getting all of them. Are you telling me if all those bids were accepted, your club would be buying all the aforementioned players?
Coutinho was forced to stay and looked how long you guys managed to hold on to him? It was made public he handed in a transfer request and tried to forced a move. Kudos for hanging onto him for another 6 months. Offering him 250k a week was an attempt to keep the player. Are you telling me that it wasn't a move to keep everyone happy? When did i ever say he wasn't a good player deserving 250k? Show it to me please.
It seems you have problem reading when i've said twice that the 142 was most likely spent on VVD and Keita. Best case is you're left with 142 - VVD fee. Since you are adamant your club is going to spend 200+m, make sure to drop back here when the transfer market opens up.
Right, so i'm suppose to take your word that is your job? Alright, assume is true, I find it shocking that despite you making such claims, you lack the ability to read. I've never said Liverpool would not be investing, i've never said that investing in the team would not raise the team's value. I'm doubting how far FSG is willing to go to get that small edge. Bear in mind, this is not investing in some bottom of the table team where 100m investment would be huge for them. Furthermore, you keep going around how investing heavily is a good thing and also admits that FSG would be making profit selling the club. Can you point to me someone who is willing to pay 1b for Liverpool? I don't see many and this is why i believe FSG would not be investing heavily.
What has this absolute tripe got to do with Jorginho?
Well it's really not tripe but my apologies.
Sorry.
Not going to respond to all of this due to it being pointed out this isn't the appropriate thread but as I said before which you clearly didn't read, I'm not adamant we will, what I said in my original post was "It really wouldn't shock me to see a £200m+ summer spend from us this summer assuming all our targets are available for "reasonable" prices." and this was in relation to a GK (Alisson), CB, regista (Jorginho) and a young forward (Pulisic, Lemar etc.).
As with all transfer news I’ll belive it when I see it, but he probably the player I have been most excited about us been linked with since Griezmann.
Really good player.
Really good player.
That's the narrative from worrisome United fans who want to believe that to make themselves feel better yeah
Anyone who actually watches Liverpool interviews or listens to the manager or actually thinks about last summer and January, knows that it's obviously not true and it's really not hard to prove. First off in the summer we bid £66m for Keita, bid £65m for Lemar and we were willing to spend £65m on Van Dijk. We paid £35m for Ox, £40m for Salah and £8m for Robertson all while telling Coutinho he wasn't going anywhere. Secondly in January after buying Van Dijk we offered Coutinho a £250k contract and captaincy to stay, why would we do that if we'd already spent his money...? Thirdly if it couldn't be any clearer, our manager actually came out and said "We will get all the money" when asked about the Coutinho money dismissing the rumour that the money had already been spent on Van Dijk and Keita. He's not an idiot and there's no way he would say that if it wasn't true.
In terms of FFP, we've spent what, £8m net on average the last 5 seasons? Splashing out £150m net one summer wouldn't breach it as we're very financially stable right now and this influx of UCL quarter final money is only going to improve that stability. We may not have the resources to do that year in year out like you and City but we certainly can afford to do it a couple of times and you're being naive if you don't think we can.
I'd go into all the details on why that investment from the owners will be so beneficial to them as well as the club but I really can't be bothered. Long story short, investing in the squad increases the club value in itself never mind increasing our chances of trophies massively which also increases the club value. They'd very quickly get their money back and more through club value as well if we won something because of it. They've already nearly quadrupled our club value mainly through off field means, now it's naturally time to do it on field as well.
Okay good luck with that FSG
Matic is not a along term option. Jorginho will replace him as we go from being a static to a dynamic midfield three. That's what we need.
What is going on here? Thought there might have been some update or info, nope just pointless waffle about how rosy the Liverpool garden is.
That's the narrative from worrisome United fans who want to believe that to make themselves feel better yeah
Anyone who actually watches Liverpool interviews or listens to the manager or actually thinks about last summer and January, knows that it's obviously not true and it's really not hard to prove. First off in the summer we bid £66m for Keita, bid £65m for Lemar and we were willing to spend £65m on Van Dijk. We paid £35m for Ox, £40m for Salah and £8m for Robertson all while telling Coutinho he wasn't going anywhere. Secondly in January after buying Van Dijk we offered Coutinho a £250k contract and captaincy to stay, why would we do that if we'd already spent his money...? Thirdly if it couldn't be any clearer, our manager actually came out and said "We will get all the money" when asked about the Coutinho money dismissing the rumour that the money had already been spent on Van Dijk and Keita. He's not an idiot and there's no way he would say that if it wasn't true.
In terms of FFP, we've spent what, £8m net on average the last 5 seasons? Splashing out £150m net one summer wouldn't breach it as we're very financially stable right now and this influx of UCL quarter final money is only going to improve that stability. We may not have the resources to do that year in year out like you and City but we certainly can afford to do it a couple of times and you're being naive if you don't think we can.
I'd go into all the details on why that investment from the owners will be so beneficial to them as well as the club but I really can't be bothered. Long story short, investing in the squad increases the club value in itself never mind increasing our chances of trophies massively which also increases the club value. They'd very quickly get their money back and more through club value as well if we won something because of it. They've already nearly quadrupled our club value mainly through off field means, now it's naturally time to do it on field as well.
He did say he wouldn’t spend that much on players like United and then spent £75m on VVD. So he has contradicted himself before so you never know.
Times change, he didn't need to spend like United did then to compete, market changed massively last summer. He clearly tried to stick by his morals but realised he'd be left behind if he did. Klopp is happy to change with the times and admit his mistakes unlike some managers...
I haven’t heard Klopp admit anything in this regard. In fact all he gave was a rather pathetic remark about how they didn’t set the market. Well I didn’t see them giving Coutinho away for free and his original comment in relation to Pogba was he’d rather build a team on the cheap. Pogba and Man Utd are none of his business either.
Taking a thread off topic
I think we'd all rather build a team on the cheap if we could assuming it was still competitive but as I said before, the market changed. But either way as I've previously been told today, this is a Jorginho thread not a Liverpool or Klopp one so lets leave this here unless it somehow relates to Jorginho.
Another reminder that this is the Jorginho thread.
I still don't think he's the right fit. A good player, but Napoli's system helps him shine. I'm sceptical if he could translate those performances here.
It's a shame he's not going to the WC, then we'd get a better look at him in a different system with Italy.
Still think he is basically what you’d expect Carrick to play like if he was Brazilian. Haven’t seen that much of him this season but last season saw quite a bit and he just reminds me of Carrick but with Brazilian flair.
Would be decent if we played a certain way as a DM but like most have said think he’d be deployed more like a Herrera or Mctominay in a 3.
Would be decent if we played a certain way as a DM but like most have said think he’d be deployed more like a Herrera or Mctominay in a 3.
I agree with this for you guys. From what I’ve seen of him recently to get the most out of him he needs to play as the deepest midfielder of a 3 and needs one of the other midfielders to be a defensively astute box to box. I don’t really feel like him being partnered with Pogba and Matic would get the best out of him. I think Verratti would make a lot more sense for you guys or Thiago. Both would be far more expensive though.
As you said it’s Napoli’s system which gets the best out of him and it’s exactly why I think he’d be far better suited to our style as Keita and Allan are very similar players and he would replace Henderson at the base of our midfield just like he’s playing for Napoli and the third player in our midfield would likely be someone more attack minded like Oxlade or Lallana ie similar to Hamsik. Of all the potential transfers this summer for us, he’s probably the player I want the most.
I watched a youtube discussion last night about him as a potential signing and the Carrick comparisons were made there as well. Never seen him play but that's good enough for me WANT!!
I feel like he would be played just as deep as Matic, sort of like when we play McTominay, Matic and Pogba. It's a lopsided 3 as McTominay and Matic hold and Pogba goes.
Never seen him play.
We need midfielders who are good on the ball. Technically supreme. Who can counter press and help in ball retention.
If he fits the bill then "we go for it"
We need midfielders who are good on the ball. Technically supreme. Who can counter press and help in ball retention.
If he fits the bill then "we go for it"
Yeah the one thing I would say is I’m not sure if he is as defensively astute as Carrick or as accurate a passer. He is however quite tenacious and tries a lot more riskier passes. Also at times has some pretty fancy footwork.
I’m not really convinced he’d be the right player for Jose ball but at this point it doesn’t really matter anymore.
People keep talking about the dynamic jorginho would have with pegboard matic. I would have assumed people would have anticipated pogba being gone next season, that's how I've read it anyway. Mourinho seems to have no faith in him.
#JorginhoWatch
Starting vs England tonight.
Starting vs England tonight.
Pogba is going no where. He needs time to mature and provide consistent performances. If we start selling our world class players, that would be stupid. Having Pogba in the team attracts interest from other world class players.
With that being said, Jorginho is good but I'm not sure if he's the one that would fit Mourinho's idealogy. I would like to have Jorginho and Fabinho in the team. They would easily elevate our team with Pogba leading the charge. If Fabinho can make Bakayoko look good, he's make Paul look amazing by taking care of the defensive side of things along with Jorginho. Jorginho and Fabinho could cost us 100m in total and we could use the remaining 100m to get Douglas Costa for the right wing and shore up our defense with the rest. I think LB would be high up on the list. Tuanzebe needs to be given a chance at CB and TFM could be rotated with Valencia.
I don't see the 3 of them suiting each other really. Jorginho is the pivot in a 3 man mid. The deep lying playmaker. Not sure how great he'd be in a 2, at least not next to either of Matic (not mobile/attacking enough) or Pogba (not defensive enough). Herrera also too much of a ball winner. Would need like a pure box to box like Vidal or something to play next to Jorginho in a 2. In a 3, having both him and Matic makes it too defensive IMO. Next to Pogba, I'd feel we still needed more of a box to box to balance that. Don't think he's defensive enough on his own to cover for Pogba, so it'd need the 3 mid.
Anyway, don't think he'll leave, I'm sure it'll be fine long term between all them and it's just a little rut we're collectively in. Not that anyone would bid the 150m at least that it'd probably require for us to let go of pogba this soon.
I assumed he played for Brazil. Now I see him playing for Italy against England. It's his name, so he plays for Italy right got it! 
Has Brazilian heritage though iircI assumed he played for Brazil. Now I see him playing for Italy against England. It's his name, so he plays for Italy right got it!
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