every defender has a bad day(s) , nesta , rio , vida the lot. one on one striker took it down well - if fergie benched a defender for a goal like that there'd be no defenders back there.
Jonny Evans | 2011/12 Performances
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I have to say, considering how good he was when he first broke into the team he looks more error prone.
Last night as an example he was at fault for the goal when he didnt get tight enough on his man.
He's clearly a promising player but he doesnt inspire confidence like Smalling or Jones, who to me appears a much more composed and complete player currently. It also worries me when a player goes backwards and not forwards in terms of his development, especially considering at 23 Evans should be coming into his own.
I love the arrogance to suggest that Benfica only scored because of a defensive feck up. It was a fantastically well taken goal, one that if Rooney scored we'd be gushing about his individual ability.
Evans is a very good defender and is still only 23, nowhere near approaching his peak. I find it hilarious how so many young lads who supposedley can't play football manage to forge a career at the most successful club in England.
Evans is a very good defender and is still only 23, nowhere near approaching his peak. I find it hilarious how so many young lads who supposedley can't play football manage to forge a career at the most successful club in England.
, and I'm still waiting for an answer as to what Wes Browns were and a good reason why we shouldn't sign players like Richardson & Eagles who are technically very good.
I will give you my opinion of Wes Brown's defensive abilities if you give me your opinion on Jonny Evans's. I did ask first
You would make a good scout.
Brown is quick, strong, good in the air and committed. He was let down by his concentration -at times - but ultimately, his fitness.
Evans has looked better this season than last, but he still worries me. I do still think he could do something a bit silly.
That said, he is definitely worth his place in the squad, will undoubtedly improve and actually, despite what is being said on here, I don't think there's a lot more he could've done for Cardozo's goal. He perhaps could've stepped into the through ball (hell of a pass), but he'd be risking diving in and not getting there first. The touch and finish were excellent. I don't blame Jonny.
You'd make a brilliant FM player.
What do you want me to say? He's excellent at toe taps?
Evans is a decent all round defender, versatile and last years dip in form aside has proven himself reasonably dependable (as is proven by the number of games he played as part of a tight defensive unit over 3 years).
Is he currently outstanding, world class, or someone you'd buy when playing Fifa, probably not but he is currently a decent defender, exactly the sort of option you need in a squad and he's 23 so has plenty of time on his side.
He's nowhere near as bad as people are making him out to be (costs us a goal every time he plays... please!).
As for whether Pogue would make a good scout... are you a scout? No you're on a football forum, same as the rest of us, worth baring in mind that the people who actually pick the team reckon he's a decent player.
The people raving about Jones and Smalling at the minute are the ones who will be straight on their backs as soon as they have a dip in form which they will, they're young players, it happens.
Evans is a decent all round defender, versatile and last years dip in form aside has proven himself reasonably dependable (as is proven by the number of games he played as part of a tight defensive unit over 3 years).
Is he currently outstanding, world class, or someone you'd buy when playing Fifa, probably not but he is currently a decent defender, exactly the sort of option you need in a squad and he's 23 so has plenty of time on his side.
He's nowhere near as bad as people are making him out to be (costs us a goal every time he plays... please!).
As for whether Pogue would make a good scout...
are you a scout? No you're on a football forum, same as the rest of us, worth baring in mind that the people who actually pick the team reckon he's a decent player.The people raving about Jones and Smalling at the minute are the ones who will be straight on their backs as soon as they have a dip in form which they will, they're young players, it happens.
Indeed. Evans was getting just as much praise as those 2 during our 07/08 and 08/09 seasons.
Fickle.
I am never really that impressed with Evans though, but I do think he could be as good as O'Shea or Wes Brown in future. (Mind I was more impressed with O'Shea and Brown when they first broke into our first team)
I've no intention of ever being a scout. I seem to be a better judge of a footballer than you, mind you.
Glad all thats cleared up so. Who's next?
Wasn't Rio a bit error prone in his early 20's, apparently? God I'm glad he never played for us then because if the Caf had their way, we might have never seen the world class Rio kick a ball for us.
And before some bellend accuses me of saying Evans = Rio (technically or whatever silly comparison you'd like to make), all I am trying to say is Evans showed a few seasons ago that he has an immense (very high) "top level". He's had a Carrick'esque breakdown in form over the last season, but WHY is it so difficult for some of our fans to comprehend that the least we can do is give the lad a fighting chance of regaining his form?
Yet every slip, blip, fart, shart is highlighted on here to justify a conclusion on why he should be sold. It is a squad game firstly (so there is definite use for him) and secondly, if we are a bit more patient, we could have a hell of a defender on our books.
No one is claiming he is world class and at the moment, he doesn't inspire confidence and he has a long way to go to get to his top level again (and there's doubt he ever will). But if he keeps contributing to a team who's winning medals and trophies then I don't see the reason to sell him...yet.
What are we all going to be saying when the flavour of the month - Jones, has a few cock ups? He has shown his immense potential, so why not get behind the guy and give him a chance to justify the hype?
And before some bellend accuses me of saying Evans = Rio (technically or whatever silly comparison you'd like to make), all I am trying to say is Evans showed a few seasons ago that he has an immense (very high) "top level". He's had a Carrick'esque breakdown in form over the last season, but WHY is it so difficult for some of our fans to comprehend that the least we can do is give the lad a fighting chance of regaining his form?
Yet every slip, blip, fart, shart is highlighted on here to justify a conclusion on why he should be sold. It is a squad game firstly (so there is definite use for him) and secondly, if we are a bit more patient, we could have a hell of a defender on our books.
No one is claiming he is world class and at the moment, he doesn't inspire confidence and he has a long way to go to get to his top level again (and there's doubt he ever will). But if he keeps contributing to a team who's winning medals and trophies then I don't see the reason to sell him...yet.
What are we all going to be saying when the flavour of the month - Jones, has a few cock ups? He has shown his immense potential, so why not get behind the guy and give him a chance to justify the hype?
I'm not sure if that was aimed at me (being below my post) but I'll respond anyway.
It was indeed a well taken goal, but Evans should have been tighter, therefore not allowing the player to turn. The player didn't have to do anything special to get into a shooting position, and if Rooney had scored it I would have still been criticising the defender.
Evans is clearly a talented player - but for whatever reason hasnt really come on as expected over the last few years given the heights he looked like reaching.
In my opinion Smalling and Jones, who despite being younger and less experienced look like better players at the moment and inspire more confidence.
Hopefully Evans can improve as expected and become the player we all hoped he would be and give Fergie a real headache.
Evans was showing him onto his weaker foot and it still took an excellent turn to create the space for a shot with his swinger. Not every goal is defendable.
What you seem unwilling to accept is that just because a player has a bright start, doesnt mean he will go on to become the player he might or fulfil his potential.
A lot of criticisms of players on here are justified and based on people's assesments of a particular players performance so I don't see whats wrong with that.
Some people seem to think that they're being "better red's" by not criticising players even when such criticism is warrented. If that's your opinion I'd suggest that being part of an internet forum, the whole basis of which is to allow people the freedom to express their opinions will simply annoy you.
Which is ironic, seeing as you spend most of your time on here defending the likes of Charlie Adams, Downing and Henderson from justifiable criticism based on their own assessment of their performances.
I don't agree.
I was always taught that with very quick players you try and give them a bit of space and drop of a little, but with the target men is getting passes off the groud stay goal side.
Showing him onto his weaker foot was a good idea, but he still could have been closer in my opinion.
Players make mistakes, it happens and I wouldnt hang him over it - it is of course a steep learning curve for young players and he will improve, but I would suggest that he wouldnt have got the run on a Vidic or Ferdinand in that situation.
Criticism is fine, as I say I've been less than impressed with him over the past 12 month but he's 23 ffs...
This sort of stuff...
... is the problem.
Whenever we concede a goal with Evans involved, you can see similar pattern and similar faults by him. Most of these have been mentioned before, but he better irons them out.
Has probably fallen behind Smalling and Jones already
Has probably fallen behind Smalling and Jones already
Why?
I accept other people's opinions on here and very often state that I don't expect that other people will or should share mine.
The person who's post I responded to had an opinion and I posted a response. I dont see whats wrong with that.
The reason he did not get tight enough was because he has poor balance and is slow to accelerate over short distances from a stopped state. He has quite an awkward frame on him, that's just him you can't change that. Smalling is a monster of a lad but he glides about the place, he has excellent balance which allows him to get tighter to people quicker.
Fair enough - but you are bound to get a fair amount of extreme opinions on here - its the nature of the internet.
Spot on.
This is getting silly now. We're almost moving on to the whole philosophy of a football message board.
Re-read the last few posts. You responded to someone making a reasonable observation about some of the more extreme opinions on Evans by accusing him of trying to be a "better red" and implying he was claiming that every impressive young talent is guaranteed of a bright future.
He actually said nothing of the sort. He just stressed that the learning curve for all young footballer is rarely smooth and the potential that Evans has already shown merits patience. As I said, it's ironic that you challenged him on this, seeing as you've made the exact same argument, repeatedly, about young footballers playing for one of our rivals.
If I was to sum up what we as community think about football it is that when we score it's because we are amazing and when the opposition score it's because we are shit.
edit - and often only minutes separates the two.
Wes Brown as a defender is a beast in the air, is strong as feck. In fact, if you put him against the likes of Kevin Davis, Drogba etc, he rarely lets you down. For Evans, he is basically a defender with many above average qualities. He would make a very good squad player, and that's it.
Isn't that exactly what Wes Brown was?
@RedRover (sorry bud, my quote function seems to have gone AWOL)
Well, firstly I didn't express nor imply that critcising players makes you any worse sort of fan. There are times when it just becomes apparent that players aren't up to scratch and then the criticism is justified.
What I do take a little issue with is that why on earth - if a player has shown that he could become an immense player for us (by actual immense season long performances) posters/fans aren't willing to give said player a chance? - especially if he has time to turn it around.
We live in a world where we expect every player to be world class by the age of 21 or simply, he's not good enough. Also, on your response, it was quite apprent in my original post that I stated there is justified "doubt" as to why Evans might never reach those promising levels again.
I'm not advocating that either opinions are right or wrong. Just a little patience will do.
Well, firstly I didn't express nor imply that critcising players makes you any worse sort of fan. There are times when it just becomes apparent that players aren't up to scratch and then the criticism is justified.
What I do take a little issue with is that why on earth - if a player has shown that he could become an immense player for us (by actual immense season long performances) posters/fans aren't willing to give said player a chance? - especially if he has time to turn it around.
We live in a world where we expect every player to be world class by the age of 21 or simply, he's not good enough. Also, on your response, it was quite apprent in my original post that I stated there is justified "doubt" as to why Evans might never reach those promising levels again.
I'm not advocating that either opinions are right or wrong. Just a little patience will do.
This, but its not an unfortunate trait, but its because aside from Rio he is our defender who reads the game the best. He's always the one to spot the danger, takes up superb defensive positions and is often the one sliding in at the end because he has realised the danger before anyone else. Its just unfortunate a lot of people in here don't seem to recognise that aspect to his game, because its what makes him a top class defender.
Yes, but then you said the exact same thing about Anderson just last year...shows that with a bit of patience they might just surprise you.
Also a dip in form seems beyond the realms of possibility.
No - I responded to someone who was seemed to be lumping a lot of people together (myself seemingly included) when plenty of the opinions were pretty fair and reasonable.
Indeed - and as I've said, I wouldn't write him off by any stretch of the imagination.
What may be difficult for Evans in comparison though is that he has Smalling and Jones in front of him who look like forming a strong partnership for years to come, whereas Anderson, with Scholes and Hargreaves leaving and Giggs getting on has a chance to really stake a claim.
As I said, hopefully Evans develops and becomes a top player - its a good problem to have.
That's a fair point.
I'm not as sure about this happening in football, but in other sports, young players tend to do a few things really well but not have a very well rounded game. When you stick to a few things you might look better doing them well, but as you get start to add all the other elements to your game, even though you're getting better, you may well look worse.
But once it all clicks again, like with Anderson, he looks like he magically jumped in quality.
Absolutely, we even saw this with Rooney, and he's one of the most talented and mature young players we've ever had. We saw it with Ronaldo too. It's a good point, stepping out of your comfort zone's not easy and making fundamental improvements to your game is obviously not going to be an easy process. People ignore this though, and criticise them constantly for not progressing as they expected, until finally as you say it clicks...and they move onto the next young player to criticise for doing the exact same thing, just a year or two earlier in his progression. The older people have experienced it with maybe over 100 players at this club alone...and yet their reaction's the same every time? A bit mental, IMO.
With all defenders fit I see no reason for Evans to play again. Thank you.
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