he isnt Fellaini level but he is also very poor so relatively he is "shit" in my opinion.
John Stones
- Thread starter ottosec
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he isnt Fellaini level but he is also very poor so relatively he is "shit" in my opinion.
yeah, that initiated our little convo here....
Jones' biggest problem is his fitness. I actually think if he stays fit and gets a regular run in a decent setup he is better defensively than Stones fair bit.
Remember Jones was marking Ronaldo and Bale out of games younger than Stones. Problem in perception terms is his injury and stop start form as a result.
Only if he could overcome that like Smalling has now, he'd be very very good. Statwise when he plays he comes out quite well now anyways.
Remember Jones was marking Ronaldo and Bale out of games younger than Stones. Problem in perception terms is his injury and stop start form as a result.
Only if he could overcome that like Smalling has now, he'd be very very good. Statwise when he plays he comes out quite well now anyways.
Look, noone has called him shit. You opinion on Jones doesn't really matter when we're talking about what other people have said.
Unless of course, the answer to this is in the affirmative,
Do you think Jones is shit?
That price is ridiculous. But in context to the market that the sale occurs, it isnt .
We would be paying for a lot of intangibles.
- EPL tv deal means player prices will go through the roof as clubs can hold a hard bargain.
- He's English, so he probably is a signing for the entirety of his useful life. Unlikely to suddenly have a dream to play for Madrid, or join a rival.
Also no acclimatization issues.
- He's among the best young defenders in the world. And almost all of them are full of mistakes. Even Varane that is highly rated here makes quite a lot of them.
We've set a precedent for highly rated young players with the Martial and Shaw fees.
- We are desperate for a CB, so are Chelsea, and probably City too. So it could turn into auction shootout.
We cant really sign the finished articles either. The Godin's, Boateng's, Ramos' and Silva's of this world are unbuyable.
He's too average a defender, and I don't think it's something that can be as taught as easily as everyone on here seems to think wrt to him and even McNair.
It's far easier to teach on ball ability up to an acceptable level for a defender, rather than having to teach the bread & butter for a center back up to an exceptional level.
It's far easier to teach on ball ability up to an acceptable level for a defender, rather than having to teach the bread & butter for a center back up to an exceptional level.
Lets be honest, no one has said he's the best CB in the league whatsoever.
You obviously didn't watch today's game then.
Who was saying it?
He has been a big reason for their poor defense. Their two CB's are all over the place.
One of the commentators. Not sure who it was. But he was going on about it for the opening 5 minutes. Then he spent the rest of the match sheepishly pointing out his mistakes
It always happens with English players. We are desperate for the next Bobby Moore to come along and lead us to World Cup glory. It ends up one disappointment after another. One golden generation after another.One of the commentators. Not sure who it was. But he was going on about it for the opening 5 minutes. Then he spent the rest of the match sheepishly pointing out his mistakes
Good on the ball but average at defending. I'd steer clear of this type of overhyped players.
He's 21. Easy to have up and down in games.
Plenty have had him as their defender of the season so far to be fair, while that may not directly translate into "best defender in the league"....it's not exactly a far cry from it either. Though the post Rio/Terry/Vidic/Cole era in the PL is struggling to find a legit consistent elite defender, so young guns who happen to be english are obviously going to be oversold, Stones is a fair bit less experienced than Smalling though, he's at the right place....he'd be getting mauled if he was at Chelsea and they were still 15th.
Shaw's 19 and Smalling was 21 when we signed him. They were far more accomplished at the defensive end of the game. I just don't get the same impression from him, as it was for them - where it seemed like a few loose ends in their games just need to be tied up for them to be at least very good players. For Stones there's a lot more work required.
I don't think you can survive at a top PL club without being an excellent defender first and foremost, and he's far from that yet. He'll probably move this summer, but it'll probably be much better for him to stay at Everton for another season. He won't be afforded the same patience when there's more on the line - same happened to Jones & Smalling who quickly found themselves moved out to RB.
He did a very similar tackle against Stoke and wasn't penalized.
Just adds stock to the fact that he isn't that good and comparisons to Rio are overboard. Actually, comparisons to Rio are fair in the sense of concentration lapses and overconfidence - I actually think Stones is better on the ball than Rio was - but even at this young age when it came to the rudimentary elements of defending, Ferdinand was at a higher level than Stones currently is. Likewise the comparison @Skills is making with Shaw/Smalling, there's more than just a bit of ironing out the creases for Stones to be doing.
He's probably hugely talented. Enough posters whose opinions I respect here do seem to think so. Not seen enough myself to say either way. But if someone called Sterling the best attacker in the PL, I'd find it equally strange.It always happens with English players. We are desperate for the next Bobby Moore to come along and lead us to World Cup glory. It ends up one disappointment after another. One golden generation after another.
I rate the guy highly but he's going through patchy form at the moment. It wouldnt change my opinion of us signing him though.
He will probably go to Chelsea or City I think.
Worth pointing out Smalling had 12 league appearances when we signed him. Stones has 87.
He won't though, it's all a pipe dream with Jones now, I don't think he will ever become a top defender, one for injuries and two he isn't intelligent enough to be a top player (harsh but true).
Stones and Smalling is the future England CB pairing IMO. Stones has been a bit iffy the last few games but I firmly believe that he wouldn't look out of place at Barcelona where he has been linked. In fact for them it would be a fantastic signing given his age and the fact he could learn from the likes of Pique.
There's no way Barca would pay almost 80mil euros for a defender.
The Spanish two dont do that
He's some of the best young defenders along with Varane, Marquinhos, Laporte, Gimenez, Mustafi, Rugani, Zouma, etc. So, I rate Stones highly.
However, I slightly prefer to sign Laporte. We just need to play his release clause and he would be cheaper than Stones.
However, I slightly prefer to sign Laporte. We just need to play his release clause and he would be cheaper than Stones.
Real spent big money on Pepe, Ramos, Coentrao, Samuel and Barca spent big on Alves, Chygrynskiy and were willing to spend big on Thiago Silva. It will probably not happen though.
For a highly rated defender he's astonishingly shite at defending.
His other main asset seems to be pratting around pointlessly with the ball because he thinks he's better at football than he is.
Just seems to be the latest English player to be hhyped up for absolutely no actual reason to me. Of about the last 10 players this has happened to, maybe 2 have any real actual level of talent.
His other main asset seems to be pratting around pointlessly with the ball because he thinks he's better at football than he is.
Just seems to be the latest English player to be hhyped up for absolutely no actual reason to me. Of about the last 10 players this has happened to, maybe 2 have any real actual level of talent.
Really don't see the big deal with this guy
I think he has lots of potential but I'd be worried for any young defender under Martinez. I don't think he is coaching the rights things into them. Under a different manager I think you'd see a real player develop.
His composure on the ball when under pressure is fantastic, not many CB's take the risks he does and get away with it - perhaps for a good reason though.
Defensively though he still needs a lot of work, makes rash challenges plenty of times and doesn't seem to handle powerful strikers very well. Great reader of the game though and usually intercepts well.
He could quite happily step into our CB positions against easier opposition, him and Blind throwing passes forward would be orgasmic for LVG.
Defensively though he still needs a lot of work, makes rash challenges plenty of times and doesn't seem to handle powerful strikers very well. Great reader of the game though and usually intercepts well.
He could quite happily step into our CB positions against easier opposition, him and Blind throwing passes forward would be orgasmic for LVG.
In today's day and age you pay for potential. Just the way it is
You're suggesting LvG will stay next season.
Him and Blind together would be shit, both not real defenders. They would get bullied by every 2nd striker in the league. Him and Smalling on the other hand
You thought Smalling was already accomplished when we signed him? Funny, because I'd have thought most of us barely knew what he was like
30 mil euros at most.
80 million is Top 10 striker in the world territory.
I dont think they rate that highly either, and they also have more options.
Whenever I've seen him play, he's been poor/average. Not getting the hype. They always concede goals and he usually makes mistakes.
I don't. He did a nice job in midfield against Madrid, when his job was to foul Ozil, but as far as I can remember it was Rafael who dealt with Ronaldo. Bar in the first half when both Ronaldo and Ozil toyed with him, he was very good for the other three halves of the tie.
Never saw anything special in Jones. Even if he stays fit forever, he should be a fourth choice or so for a top team. He is technically poor (similar to Smalling), prone to making needless fouls and prone on making mistakes. In addition, to not being great at defending. And of course, not actually being fit for most of the season.
Stones isn't better at defending (heck, he is worse), but he has brilliant technique, is younger, and is fit most of the time.
That's very unfair, he did a great job at the Bernabeu just like Welbeck did a job on Alonso. Without those 2 we would have been beaten for sure. Credit where credit is due, he did keep him quiet.