Joe Allen to the dippers?
- Thread starter Eyepopper
- Start date
You can just sense that he hasn't gotten over the Berba and Carrick transfers. Pouncing at the every opportunity to 'shatter our delusions' 
It is a lot but they'l need to pay up as Swansea have no need to sell one of their more important players.
Not if you'd have tried to understand what he meant rather than the names he used to back his point.
fecking hell, you really really are an epic feckwit.
His point? He didn't have one worthy of the title.
Originally, I simply said that it's premature to call Allen "over-priced" at 15m compared to Kawaga at 13m. And obviously it IS premature, since for all anybody knows right now Kawaga might flop in the Prem, whilst we already know that Allen has shown very decent Prem quality ... and indeed might shine further if/when playing for a better team.
Then KM comes weighing in with some ludicrous "analogy" involving Messi .... as if Messi might not be a big success in the Prem simply because he's never played in it.
To put it another way, Kawaga might or might not succeed in the Prem (we don't yet know), but that question mark does not apply to Messi.
All ifs, buts and maybes...use your eyes, Kagawa's a class above, no matter what league he's playing in.
Do you mean he's a "class above" Allen?
Kagawa might fail in the Prem. Allen might shine further when at a better team.
Both true but surely you see how reasoning cannot be based on mights? It must be evident to anyone who's seen both play that if Club X get Kagawa for 13mil, a club Y paying 15mil for Allen is definitely overpaying.
Get over the Messi example. It was just an example to represent someone who's definitely better than the other player in question.
You can see why some people label us deluded when you've got people like KM saying Kagawa is better than Messi and Ronaldo.
Gnff.. nnng... mmmm...
You can see why people think some posters are retarded when you've got people thinking that KM meant that.
Bale is not in the same class as Messi.
Allen is not in the same class as Kagawa.
Kagawa is not in the same class as Messi.
Bale and Kagawa are of similar class.
Conclusion: Messi > Kagawa + Bale > Allen.
So Kagawa being cheaper than Allen shows how £15 million can be seen as being a lot of money. Comprende?
Bale is not in the same class as Messi.
Allen is not in the same class as Kagawa.
Kagawa is not in the same class as Messi.
Bale and Kagawa are of similar class.
Conclusion: Messi > Kagawa + Bale > Allen.
So Kagawa being cheaper than Allen shows how £15 million can be seen as being a lot of money. Comprende?
You must be taking the piss. I've no idea why you felt the need to ask something so blatantly obvious. What else could I have meant?
Notsureifserious.jpg
But my reasoning on it being premature (to say that Allen is comparatively over-priced) is not based mainly on 'mights'. It's based largely on what we already know about Allen in the Prem ... and on what we currently don't know about Kawaga in the Prem.
Well, you might have been talking in some abstract, general sense, rather than in relation to Allen.
But anyhow, the point still stands: it's premature to say that Kawaga will be a "class above" Allen in the Prem.
We do know that he's comfortably the superior player though, dont we? We already know that he's not some unknown quantity from an obscure league but one of the best players of the reigning German champions too. He might fail, sure, but the chances that he'l be a success is much higher. Sure he hasnt played in the CL whereas Allen has, but not one prem club would choose the later over Kagawa if given the chance, Pool included. So its absolutely reasonable to say they'l overpay if they fork out 15mil.
Reasons like "he hasnt played in the league" should go out of the window when talking of quality players from quality leagues in the world. Some fail but most succeed.
It's crazy to see the calibre of players Liverpool attract these days
Allen looked handy enough for Swansea but I don't think he's influential or talented enough to help them get back into the top 4
Will Liverpool be able attract another Torres/Alonso in the next few years?
Allen looked handy enough for Swansea but I don't think he's influential or talented enough to help them get back into the top 4
Will Liverpool be able attract another Torres/Alonso in the next few years?
I don't understand why you'd bother making such a simple point. Yes, if Kagawa doesn't turn out to be as good as expected and Allen turns out to be much better expected, then perhaps Allen might even look like the better signing...is that really something that you think people couldn't figure out on their own?
Kagawa's a class above Allen in the same way you could tell Modric was a class above Mark Noble, before he'd came to the league. Unless something goes drastically wrong, that's not going to change. Everything points to Kagawa being a better player at a better price.
No simply because you need to be in the CL to attract the top players. They need to get there first. Thats why the huge money Dalglish spent on buying mediocre players will hurt them bad long term. He spent a lot of money and ended up with a squad weaker than the one we had. Or atleast not with any improvement as such.
They should aim higher than Allen but they're not going to get the top talent now.
Allens has had one year in the premier league. Not exactly proven.
Well, no, actually we don't. The acid test is yet to come.
Was Charlie Adam proven in the Prem? Yeah we can all say the if's but's and maybe's. But any man and his dog can see Kawaga is a better player. £15m.. They was better off doubling it and trying the get Modric!
I'm guessing Spurs have been linked with him.
I think he'd be a really decent signing for the dippers, despite the fact they have like a million CM's none of them are really content / any good at sitting back controlling the tempo of the game.
Allen could do that, allowing Gerrard to be pushed up and play where he should be playing. We saw last year he doesn't really have the ability to play deep in a holding role, stick him in the Lampard role and watch him score goals.
He's what? 22? 23? 15m doesn't seem a bad price, he's a good player already that will improve with time and in a (prepare for lol's) better team.
Allen could do that, allowing Gerrard to be pushed up and play where he should be playing. We saw last year he doesn't really have the ability to play deep in a holding role, stick him in the Lampard role and watch him score goals.
He's what? 22? 23? 15m doesn't seem a bad price, he's a good player already that will improve with time and in a (prepare for lol's) better team.
I think he's a tidy tidy player. Think the same about Chris Brunt.
Kagawa looks good...but then so have several players in pre season in the past. Let's give him 20 or so games in the league before we start judging anything. You're right he's been excellent in the Bundesliga (the most comparable to the EPL IMO) and I can see no reason why he wouldn't continue to excel.
Anyway...Joe Allen.
Anyway...Joe Allen.
Replacement for Modric?
So, Rodgers wants to turn Liverpool into Swansea
if he continues to target mid-table players i'll be happy
if he continues to target mid-table players i'll be happy
Relax.
In my experience it never ends well when people start making "hypothetical" comparisons on here. usually decends into "you said this" - no I didn't etc.
Don't forget ex Chelsea youth players too.
Seems to be the only players he can attract.
This topic is descending into farce now.
Joe Allen's transfer fee may turn out to be a masterstroke down the line.
Bale and Kagawa are both very good football players. It's very hard to say how both will do next year.
GlastonSpur is a few years away from being irrelevant again.
Joe Allen's transfer fee may turn out to be a masterstroke down the line.
Bale and Kagawa are both very good football players. It's very hard to say how both will do next year.
GlastonSpur is a few years away from being irrelevant again.
Yep (the Kawaga = Bale hype is for the birds, so I'm done commenting further on it) ....
I think he will end up at Liverpool, probably for around 12 - 13m, will improve them and end up being decent value for the money in today's market.
Spurs fan in over rating bale shocker. Not surprised. Very good player who could become great. He's not there yet.
I've moved the Kagawa-Bale posts to the Kagawa thread. One page in and it can't even stay remotely on topic...let's try and avoid that.
At least you accept that Allen doesn't represent a tad less quality than Bale.
so what you're saying is that if he goes to Liverpool he's going to regress
I don't understand where all the hype around Joe Allen comes from. He's OK, he's tidy-ish. Liverpool's problem over the years has been buying far too many squad players who aren't top quality, and this is another one in the making. It's Charlie Adam all over again.