Joao Felix
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We need creators, yes — don't think anyone would disagree with that assertion!
But I think Félix's scoring tendencies will get stifled if he plays with the combination of Martial and Rashford because he will be expected to a greater degree of unselfish creating for them (which wouldn't be ideal because he should have a more aggressive role). Keep regurgitating old examples, but players like Del Piero/Dybala/Litmanen (part scorers and part creators like Félix) reached some of the best form of their careers with no more than 1 predominant scorer ahead of them — all other attackers were either creators (Zidane) or wingers than maintained width (Overmars) or work-horse strikers than were tactically thorough (Mandzukić) — which gives us a decent idea of the type of balance Félix will need to realize his full potential.
I'll probably cop a fair bit of flack for saying this but if we are to sign him, one of Martial or Rashford needs to be moved on. As a duo, their skill set isn't particularly broad or symbiotic in the grand scheme of things, and neither is suited to a disciplined role — and while Félix is a capable creator, he should be a proactive executor rather than a constant facilitator for the other two. IMO, Something like Félix + Rashford + Sancho (who's an incisive playmaker/passer already and will add goals to his game in due time) would be a better template for the future because you'll have a really good mix of invention and movement to go with a fair bit of directness. Agree with the touch, timing and understanding bit, his vision of the game is refined for a young attack — very perceptive and well-rounded.
He's got a deceptively hard shot,this Felix.
Overall I'm liking what I see.Not sure how he fits with our current team,though obviously we still dont know what Ole's intention is for next season and beyond.
Overall I'm liking what I see.Not sure how he fits with our current team,though obviously we still dont know what Ole's intention is for next season and beyond.
That hattrick ruined any chance we had of signing him now.
We need creators, yes — don't think anyone would disagree with that assertion!
But I think Félix's scoring tendencies will get stifled if he plays with the combination of Martial and Rashford because he will be expected to a greater degree of unselfish creating for them (which wouldn't be ideal because he should have a more aggressive role). Keep regurgitating old examples, but players like Del Piero/Dybala/Litmanen (part scorers and part creators like Félix) reached some of the best form of their careers with no more than 1 predominant scorer ahead of them — all other attackers were either creators (Zidane) or wingers than maintained width (Overmars) or work-horse strikers than were tactically thorough (Mandzukić) — which gives us a decent idea of the type of balance Félix will need to realize his full potential.
I'll probably cop a fair bit of flack for saying this but if we are to sign him, one of Martial or Rashford needs to be moved on. As a duo, their skill set isn't particularly broad or symbiotic in the grand scheme of things, and neither is suited to a disciplined role — and while Félix is a capable creator, he should be a proactive executor rather than a constant facilitator for the other two. IMO, Something like Félix + Rashford + Sancho (who's an incisive playmaker/passer already and will add goals to his game in due time) would be a better template for the future because you'll have a really good mix of invention and movement to go with a fair bit of directness. Agree with the touch, timing and understanding bit, his vision of the game is refined for a young attack — very perceptive and well-rounded.
Grest post.
Out of interest, do you think he'd work paired with a more traditional striker ala Jovic / Piatek?
Either way, imagine in a couple of years having an attacking stable of: Martial, Rashford, Felix, Greenwood, Lingard, Sancho.
Theatre of dreams material right there.
No problem. He can do that playing for Portugal.
We need creators, yes — don't think anyone would disagree with that assertion!
But I think Félix's scoring tendencies will get stifled if he plays with the combination of Martial and Rashford because he will be expected to a greater degree of unselfish creating for them (which wouldn't be ideal because he should have a more aggressive role). Keep regurgitating old examples, but players like Del Piero/Dybala/Litmanen (part scorers and part creators like Félix) reached some of the best form of their careers with no more than 1 predominant scorer ahead of them — all other attackers were either creators (Zidane) or wingers than maintained width (Overmars) or work-horse strikers than were tactically thorough (Mandzukić) — which gives us a decent idea of the type of balance Félix will need to realize his full potential.
I'll probably cop a fair bit of flack for saying this but if we are to sign him, one of Martial or Rashford needs to be moved on. As a duo, their skill set isn't particularly broad or symbiotic in the grand scheme of things, and neither is suited to a disciplined role — and while Félix is a capable creator, he should be a proactive executor rather than a constant facilitator for the other two. IMO, Something like Félix + Rashford + Sancho (who's an incisive playmaker/passer already and will add goals to his game in due time) would be a better template for the future because you'll have a really good mix of invention and movement to go with a fair bit of directness. Agree with the touch, timing and understanding bit, his vision of the game is refined for a young attack — very perceptive and well-rounded.
I agree that if he is bought Martial will be on his way out, or maybe Lukaku. His time is running out and he’s been inconsistent since arrival. Don’t really know what you’re going to get from him on a given night so wouldn’t mind moving to a new younger up and comer.
RW is needed which will likely be Sancho. Sanchez has no place here regardless. If we are to get Felix, means Martial or Lukaku will be gone, although I could see Felix for next season and holding off on moving Tony/Rom until the following summer.
Felix ——— Rashford - Sancho
(Martial) —- (Rom) -—(Jesse)
Gives us options without having to force a current player out. Can give Martial a last chance. If he proves himself consistent and reliable, wouldn’t mind moving Rom although I do like the physicality element he brings which none of the others really have. And then Mason can take the leftover spot so it’s filled internally.
Why not keep both Rashford and Martial and rotate them? Not only would we have depth, but we could switch up our formations and tactics depending on the players on the pitch. Imagine being able to get Sancho too. We'd be spoilt for choice.We need creators, yes — don't think anyone would disagree with that assertion!
But I think Félix's scoring tendencies will get stifled if he plays with the combination of Martial and Rashford because he will be expected to a greater degree of unselfish creating for them (which wouldn't be ideal because he should have a more aggressive role). Keep regurgitating old examples, but players like Del Piero/Dybala/Litmanen (part scorers and part creators like Félix) reached some of the best form of their careers with no more than 1 predominant scorer ahead of them — all other attackers were either creators (Zidane) or wingers than maintained width (Overmars) or work-horse strikers than were tactically thorough (Mandzukić) — which gives us a decent idea of the type of balance Félix will need to realize his full potential.
I'll probably cop a fair bit of flack for saying this but if we are to sign him, one of Martial or Rashford needs to be moved on. As a duo, their skill set isn't particularly broad or symbiotic in the grand scheme of things, and neither is suited to a disciplined role — and while Félix is a capable creator, he should be a proactive executor rather than a constant facilitator for the other two. IMO, Something like Félix + Rashford + Sancho (who's an incisive playmaker/passer already and will add goals to his game in due time) would be a better template for the future because you'll have a really good mix of invention and movement to go with a fair bit of directness. Agree with the touch, timing and understanding bit, his vision of the game is refined for a young attack — very perceptive and well-rounded.
Suddenly Lukaku is to be kept by these guys and martial is the one to be sold
We have sanchez & Lukaku to be replaced before needing to sell martial at all.
He's the kind of talent that you get no matter what, no matter if it fits the current team or not because tactics can be changed, but getting a talent like that after his first big transfer is going to be massively more difficult. I've been singing his praises for a while and I think he's a must-have for any team looking to contend in the foreseeable future.
I made that post on the thought that both Lukaku and Sanchez would be gone.Suddenly Lukaku is to be kept by these guys and martial is the one to be sold
We have sanchez & Lukaku to be replaced before needing to sell martial at all.
He’s the one isn’t he? He’s been looking amazing this season. Only thing is real are probably about to start hoovering up talent again.
11 vs 11 in Germany the history will be different. He needs to develop at Benfica before leaving. Good fundamentals but needs more games at European level to improve.
Is he not a more technically gifted Lingard? or a faster and more agile Mata? That's what we need. Why? Pogba is playing higher up centrally because we do not create and so he can't drive up our midfield more. Joao Felix is young and is potentially a star, that's what united traditionally go for. Sancho, Rashford and Joao Felix would be the youngest and best attacking group.
Furthermore, all the top teams in Europe have a no.10 and so he would have more game time at United.
Furthermore, all the top teams in Europe have a no.10 and so he would have more game time at United.
I agree. He's a generational talent. I really hope we're trying at the very least. Mind, he'd probably fit better into a 4231 so in the unlikely event we'd acquire him, Pogba is either off or needs to play in a midfield 2.
But that would be a sideway move then, you need to add these great talents without losing your world-class players. Granted, Pogba's world-class talent doesn't shine as much as it could at United, he's part of this symptom of inconsistency that's permeating throughout the team, but I think having a guy like Felix would be huge in helping Pogba be more effective. There's plenty of ways to make these two work together IMO.
Yes, don't see why not, mate...their respective skill sets could be quite complementary as long as they forge a decent personal understanding. e.g. If you swap Félix/Jović with Haller/Seferović, the balance of the respective attacks/midfields of Frankfurt and Benfica would still be quite sound, even though Félix isn't as consistently good as Haller at this moment in time.
Mostly because I think Greenwood is a very exciting prospect and can fulfill one of their roles in the near future, and will also be a considerably cheaper option (which appeals to me as a stickler for fiscal responsibility). To add, while rotational roles sound good in theory, the method often serves to have a stunting effect on players because their rhythm and automatism can be disrupted — and sooner or later you will have to prioritize one player as the starter, which will upset the other if he's ambitious enough (ref. Benzema/Higuaín at Madrid). United shouldn't be afraid to let players go if we can procure suitable replacements (this is obviously key to everything because I wouldn't advocate getting rid of one of our better forwards if we can't sign Félix and Sancho) or improve the overall mechanics of the attack.
How would you see that function? At best I could see Felix playing as a false nine, or right of Rashford, with interchanging movement. Unless Pogba is willing to mature a bit and take on some responsibility as a dynamic box to box player. Moot point in all probability, he's probably got a host of potential suitors.
This is what needs to happen. Not least because you cant completely change your team based on one 19 year old signing, regardless of his potential.
Also unsure how having another very young player in first team is going to affect us short term. We're struggling as it is up front.
Well, his coach Lage says he is going to stay for next season. Anyway he is the closest thing we have similar to a player we had here during the 90’s, João Pinto.
Another player for Fernando Santos to be wasted for Portugal, a classic.
Another player for Fernando Santos to be wasted for Portugal, a classic.
Want.
This kid has the lot.
This kid has the lot.
Fully agree, specially it’s not like we have a worldclass XI which work perfectly under the current tactic. We can change it overnight really, and as you said he looks like the real deal. We should definitely be into him.
Another Renato Sanches?
Completely different players.
Actually his look reminds me on Roque Santa Cruz when he was young. Whereever he plays - the girls will be after him.
he reminds a little of Kaka appearance wise.
Unlike the hype about Renato Sanches(glorified Jonjo Shelvey) Joao Felix is the real deal.
I hate that Benfica have this kind of player in their ranks top top talent.
If Sporting had him we would be going nuts but since we are rivals the whole of the Sporting Forum think he is not that good.
The truth is Felix is THAT good. 15 goals in his maiden season and an important player for Benfica and a EUROPEAN Hattrick.... feck me I hate this...
I hate that Benfica have this kind of player in their ranks top top talent.
If Sporting had him we would be going nuts but since we are rivals the whole of the Sporting Forum think he is not that good.
The truth is Felix is THAT good. 15 goals in his maiden season and an important player for Benfica and a EUROPEAN Hattrick.... feck me I hate this...
Truth is sadly Sporting Forum now you are almost forbidden to say anything remotely positive about a rival player. If you say this kind of thing you’re called traitor, corrupt or lamp.
Anyway I usually don’t value too much stats coming from the domestic league because scoring vs Tondelas of this life shouldn’t be used as a metric for nothing.
But it’s difficult to say he doesn’t have talent, I don’t like to praise much my scouting abilities
but I am not surprised with this, based on the fact I already said here before he was playing for their first team that he has different qualities than the other guys he played against at under 19 level.What he is doing now is what he was doing last season at the final stage of the under 19’s League, where he scored a ridiculously total of 15 goals where the second best had half of that.
I watched him live at Alcochete playing against us and I already said here multiple times he is the Joao Pinto of our days, thinks faster than the others and on top of that has a great relationship with scoring goals.
He isn’t better than João was with the same age but probably will be better because one day he will play on stronger leagues.
My fear with him (and I am saying this related with Portugal not Benfica) is that with the ridiculous pressure and high fees associated with a certain agent who owns everything in the country if not the world is the fact he might not be ready yet to deliver.
He should stay at least one more season with them, and he has to play on central areas, basically Lage is great to develop him because he comes from youth football background, worked there, his brother also works on their Academy.
Hate to say but this days they are doing everything right there and they invested massively there.
Of course we will need to reinvest on Alcochete and Porto has always control over the North to recruit players.
This to say, playing for Benfica with those papers like a Bola, Correio da Manhã and the Gestifute hype machine a lot of pathetic propaganda will come.
But as someone who doesn’t support them and actually always said Sanches was a normal player worse than Neves for the youth teams, I have no problem in saying this one has high potential with great fundamentals.
The rest will come naturally, unless he has bad luck with injuries.
I agree with everything you just said (wow that’s a first). I also always said Renato Sanches was bang average but no one listened.Truth is sadly Sporting Forum now you are almost forbidden to say anything remotely positive about a rival player. If you say this kind of thing you’re called traitor, corrupt or lamp.
Anyway I usually don’t value too much stats coming from the domestic league because scoring vs Tondelas of this life shouldn’t be used as a metric for nothing.
But it’s difficult to say he doesn’t have talent, I don’t like to praise much my scouting abilities
What he is doing now is what he was doing last season at the final stage of the under 19’s League, where he scored a ridiculously total of 15 goals where the second best had half of that.
I watched him live at Alcochete playing against us and I already said here multiple times he is the Joao Pinto of our days, thinks faster than the others and on top of that has a great relationship with scoring goals.
He isn’t better than João was with the same age but probably will be better because one day he will play on stronger leagues.
My fear with him (and I am saying this related with Portugal not Benfica) is that with the ridiculous pressure and high fees associated with a certain agent who owns everything in the country if not the world is the fact he might not be ready yet to deliver.
He should stay at least one more season with them, and he has to play on central areas, basically Lage is great to develop him because he comes from youth football background, worked there, his brother also works on their Academy.
Hate to say but this days they are doing everything right there and they invested massively there.
Of course we will need to reinvest on Alcochete and Porto has always control over the North to recruit players.
This to say, playing for Benfica with those papers like a Bola, Correio da Manhã and the Gestifute hype machine a lot of pathetic propaganda will come.
But as someone who doesn’t support them and actually always said Sanches was a normal player worse than Neves for the youth teams, I have no problem in saying this one has high potential with great fundamentals.
The rest will come naturally, unless he has bad luck with injuries.
Also I agree with another point you made. Felix needs to stay one more year in Benfica(at least). It would be important in his development and allow him to go up a level and improve his over all game. He will become stronger not just physically but mentally as well ( vai ficar mais maduro para poder dar o salto).
And lastly...ughh I just hate that they have a talent like this ...
Not the first but ok. Yep checked now he scored 15 and the second one had 7, of course this season the more ridiculous stat is that kid Fabio Silva from Porto who is only 17 and has 9 in 6 games where the second one Embalo who is one year older and still a talent half of that.I agree with everything you just said (wow that’s a first). I also always said Renato Sanches was bang average but no one listened.
Also I agree with another point you made. Felix needs to stay one more year in Benfica(at least). It would be important in his development and allow him to go up a level and improve his over all game. He will become stronger not just physically but mentally as well ( vai ficar mais maduro para poder dar o salto).
And lastly...ughh I just hate that they have a talent like this ...
I know that inside Alcochete they are gradually changing things but youth football takes time to change everything.
On top of that we are on the same area as them while Porto has the entire North to recruit.
What puzzles me is that I see good players coming like mushrooms on our youth teams but the standard of our goalkeepers is underwhelming, always the same problems in Portugal.
Anyway this topic is Felix and yes he certainly will be part of the senior NT for now, completely useless him or Bruno Fernandes under Santos will look as shit as Bernardo Silva, Cancelo, Guedes and the others.
The only one who rises on the middle of that crap is a certain 34 year old freak.
Enough, sick and tired of bashing Santos, it will be a great joy for me when he retires, of course the incompetents on the Federation might think about Mourinho and I know you would like that, better not discuss this again.
Felix now.
He is precisely what we lack. The ideal upgrade on Mata
Colour me convinced.
Let's get this kid! Bagging the best talents in Europe is crucial.
I've seen him in just one match and can say he's much better than Renato Sanches I honestly was never impressed by Renato even in Euro 16 where he won the best young player award, he never convinced either technically or in decision making. Felix yesterday was all of the opposite, great at moving the ball and also, most importantly, making the right decisions.
I honestly was never impressed by Renato even in Euro 16 where he won the best young player award, he never convinced either technically or in decision making. Felix yesterday was all of the opposite, great at moving the ball and also, most importantly, making the right decisions.Players with no stand out athletic ability rarely make the top5 (for the people saying he will reach this level).
The difference between him and Renato Sanches is that Sanches is utter shite.
So Messi and Maradonna had outstanding athletic ability? 2 best players I've ever seen, both short arses, neither blessed with outstanding pace, neither going to out muscle opponents.
No he isn't we don't need another right winger, who isn't very effective as a right winger!
I'd guess if we go for him, it'll be a Pogba replacement..
I really like this kid, shades of Rui Costa. He's the real deal.
Of course Messi and Maradona had outstanding athletic ability. Messi was extremely quick when he was younger and had a low gravity which meant that he could utilize his technical qualities to essentially be impossible to stop by a single (or multiple) defenders.
As for our squad, I do think we need one central attacker to improve on Mata and Lingard. I'd add a an AM/SS and a right winger both who have to have great technical qualities.
For me neither Messi or Maradonna will be remembered as players who relied on athletic ability as footballers. A low centre of gravity isn't anything an athletic footballer requires, speed and strength are. Both were/are technically blessed players, who have outstanding awareness.
As Messi is no longer as rapid as he used to be, seems odd how he's still probably the best player in the world, if his athletic ability was so vital to his game?
Too good to be true that we get this guy.