I am pretty confident Arteta will play Nketiah as striker. Imagine if you are Nketiah who has been promised to share minutes with Jesus and also as his back up, and then the manager sign another player ahead of you.
Joao Felix / on loan to Chelsea
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Loan is perfect for us. We need depth and EtH can assess if he can fit his system and deliver in the crunch, without a dumb outlay.
A swap loan deal for VDB could be a good deal for us so long as Atletico still cover his wages.
Real wanted VDB before we purchased him so he was probably viewed as fitting well into the Spanish style of football.
We would be able to see if Erik rates Felix first hand and Atletico would be getting a player that was instrumental in Ajax being a force in European football not so long ago.
Win, Win for both clubs.
Real wanted VDB before we purchased him so he was probably viewed as fitting well into the Spanish style of football.
We would be able to see if Erik rates Felix first hand and Atletico would be getting a player that was instrumental in Ajax being a force in European football not so long ago.
Win, Win for both clubs.
He's played as a 9 a lot of the times for AM in a tumescent defensive system and still poached goals, so I would say yes he can play as one but it's versatile enough to play behind the striker. If it's between gakpo or felix it's felix all day long. We will look like clowns if we pass up on Felix and buy Gapko instead who isn't even a bonafide no 9 with far less proven ability
Oh trust me when I say I'm not keen on Gapko at all - based on what I've seen of him. Not a number 9 either
Loan for 8m might sound good — but it’s a bit disingenuous.
Without an option to buy a loan can be pretty risky. You are basically developing and showcasing someone else’s asset.
I know many are sceptical about that. There has been a notion of like ‘we are not the farm team for anyone’.
But at the same time, Arsenal did it with Martin Odegard and it worked out great for them. Maybe in reality a loan without option to buy isn’t as bad as some maybe fear. If Felix does well for us, he will want to stay here. Nobody else can buy him without getting his signature. Felix is surely not more than a 50-60m player. What do you do if Felix is great here and AtM asks for 125m? Like to some extent that is AtMs problem. Felix won’t be happy if they don’t sell him and he can refuse to sign for anyone else.
Without an option to buy a loan can be pretty risky. You are basically developing and showcasing someone else’s asset.
I know many are sceptical about that. There has been a notion of like ‘we are not the farm team for anyone’.
But at the same time, Arsenal did it with Martin Odegard and it worked out great for them. Maybe in reality a loan without option to buy isn’t as bad as some maybe fear. If Felix does well for us, he will want to stay here. Nobody else can buy him without getting his signature. Felix is surely not more than a 50-60m player. What do you do if Felix is great here and AtM asks for 125m? Like to some extent that is AtMs problem. Felix won’t be happy if they don’t sell him and he can refuse to sign for anyone else.
Pretty sure this can be negotiated to include a fair option to buy. If not we need to move on fast.
If hes available on those terms it should really be a no brainer. Especially if between us and Arsenal.
Relying on Nketiah to play every PL and EL game for the next 2/3 months is a recipe for disaster. We've made that mistake already, let's not repeat it.
World class talent and ability.Just needs that consistency.
Would be bonkers not to get this kid who will be available and still only 23.
Agreed.
What's the difference when we loaned Henrik Larsson to win the League?
Bayern won the treble when they loaned Perisic and Thiago. They didn't buy any of them while both helped Bayern massively.
As long as it helps us get a better position in the league and better results in this 1/2 year, I don't care if another club gets financially benefitted from this loan.
though an option (but not an obligation) to buy would be cool.
We should be doing anything to get this kid. He would be one of our best players instantly. He has incredible talent.
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Better than Rashford??
Yep. The deal makes sense for everyone, yet I cant say im particularly confident we will actually get it done.
Should be trying to beneft more from such deals. Others seem to, can't really understand why we can't or don't.
So the report has Arsenal being the favorites while we also are interested. Given the costs of the loan — 8m plus really high wages — realistically it’s either Gakpo or Felix. Not both. Since it seems more and more likely that we will get Gakpo, an assumption could be that Arsenal would get Felix.
Just speculating here, but I would not bet on that. Arsenal are just as invested in Mykhailo Mudryk as we are in Gakpo. Mudryk is a top talent who has been a bit forgotten not taking part in the WC. But he is definitely held higher than Gakpo.
We know that this report broke from Duncan Castles and we know that Castles get information from Mendes. Why would Mendes leak to Castles that Felix is available on loan, but Arsenal are the favorites. Just to keep everyone updated? Nah, from my point of view, I would guess that it’s to stir up interest. Especially from us, it would seem.
Just speculating here, but I would not bet on that. Arsenal are just as invested in Mykhailo Mudryk as we are in Gakpo. Mudryk is a top talent who has been a bit forgotten not taking part in the WC. But he is definitely held higher than Gakpo.
We know that this report broke from Duncan Castles and we know that Castles get information from Mendes. Why would Mendes leak to Castles that Felix is available on loan, but Arsenal are the favorites. Just to keep everyone updated? Nah, from my point of view, I would guess that it’s to stir up interest. Especially from us, it would seem.
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If anything we'd be devaluaing him if he came here, as I reckon AM would be thinking something around £90-£100 million for him right now? that'd would mean he'd have to come in and be just as about as good as any player in prem to warrant that sort of fee in the summer, which much as he seems a very good player, is very unlikely, even if he does and he's then too expensive to buy then we'll have had one hell of successful loan spell from a player, so short of him been a total flop there's no down side
It just seems a no brainer if it can be done, if he flops or ETH doesn't like his mentality then we send him back, if he does well and we then want to buy him then we will have a player that likely doesn't want to be tranferred anywhere else, and a more realistic idea of what he's worth.
It just seems a no brainer if it can be done, if he flops or ETH doesn't like his mentality then we send him back, if he does well and we then want to buy him then we will have a player that likely doesn't want to be tranferred anywhere else, and a more realistic idea of what he's worth.
I fear Arsenal want him more than we do.
I like the idea of a loan to be able to assess him better than just straight up breaking the bank to sign him.
Wouldn't mind a loan just to bolster the squad until the summer, but long term I'm not sure where he fits if we get Gakpo. I think we'll still need a world class #9, and then our attack will be stacked
Too offensively balanced? 
——————————Martial——————————
Rashford———————————————Antony
———————Gakpo—————————————
——————————————Bruno———————
———————————Eriksen—————————
Shaw——Lissandro——Casemiro———Felix
———————————DDG——————————
——————————Martial——————————
Rashford———————————————Antony
———————Gakpo—————————————
——————————————Bruno———————
———————————Eriksen—————————
Shaw——Lissandro——Casemiro———Felix
———————————DDG——————————
I know it was a joke, but have just fixed it for you
Too offensively balanced?
——————————Felix——————————
Rashford———————————————Antony
———————Gakpo—————————————
——————————————Bruno———————
———————————Eriksen—————————
Shaw——Lissandro——Casemiro———Dalot
———————————DDG——————————
This lad goes to Arsenal over us and I’ll be gutted.
This
So we'll see how they do comparatively. Felix by far the classier footballer. We just have to hope Gakpo's productivity survives the transition to the Prem.
I think that's likely. We're too committed to Gakpo I reckon.
So we'll see how they do comparatively. Felix by far the classier footballer. We just have to hope Gakpo's productivity survives the transition to the Prem.
I do think it will be one of Felix or Gapko, not both. I would prefer Felix but ETH seems to prefer Gapko and in fairness he is a better judge than me.
But does the math add up for Arsenal? And in addition, I’ve followed reports on Mudryk for a long time, even if he primarily is a LW, he is just the real deal, and Arsenal has been as heavily linked to him as we have been to Gakpo.
From Orstein:
Mykhaylo Mudryk
The Premier League paused for six weeks to make room for this winter World Cup with Arsenal top of the table, leaving many keen to discover if the January window will be used to help maintain what is an unexpected title bid.
Arsenal are prepared to do so if an opportunity arises that the club deem right for the long term, with the Kroenke family — their American owners — wanting to back now-sporting director Edu and manager Mikel Arteta.
Their priority target is Shakhtar Donetsk winger Mykhaylo Mudryk and sources with knowledge of the matter think there is a good chance it will happen, though nothing is agreed at present.
Shakhtar have stated their value for the highly coveted Ukraine international as €100million (£85.9m, $105.3m) – but interested parties are of the understanding that a lower fee would be deemed acceptable.
Arsenal are among the clubs in touch with both Shakhtar and Mudryk’s representatives, with the 21-year-old known to be focused on moving to the Premier League and determined to make the Emirates Stadium his destination.
Brentford had a deal worth €25million in place last summer, when he was also on Arsenal’s radar, and his stock has since risen. It will ultimately come down to the price and while the north London club may have alternative possibilities, Mudryk is their focus.
Not many teams are looking for a LW. Mudryk has pulled a Ronaldo on Shaktar and stated his desire to get out in a tell-it-all interview (with his wife on top of it all). He wanted out last summer, Shaktar kept him. Playing for Shaktar during the spring of 23’ for a mega talent like Mudryk must be close to being unthinkable. They face Rennes in the Europa League, but besides that it’s games on mostly neutral ground (Lviv) or in Poland — against completely hopeless teams (like we can all imagine the problems Shaktar D is in, but imagine the state of like Zorja Luhansk and co that have little resources to start with).
I think it was Srena that claimed that Shaktar wanted 100m for Mudryk. They have been — very — public in their demands for MM. All in all, it just comes across as posturing. They have to sell Mudryk to the highest bidder. And while surely like Villa or Brentford and the likes would ant up for him — there is nobody other than Arsenal of the better teams in the market for a natural LW who can play across the forward line and as a No 10.
Everything points towards Arsenal getting Mudryk on a bargain. Mudryk is a Gareth Bale-esque talent.
Could they get both? I can’t see it. They spent a lot in the summer. With the season they are having — all their first team kids are getting new contracts. That is a big commitment for Arsenal. Their wage bill will be smoking after it.
Could getting “just” Felix be an option for Arsenal? But then it’s just a quick fix, they still must get a long term solution, and they will loose out on Mudryk who most probably think has more potential than Felix. And Felix is on 300k a week. He would probably be behind Martinelli, Jesus, Shaka and Odegard. How does Arsenal motivate paying Felix 300k a week and Odegard 75k a week?
From Orstein:
Mykhaylo Mudryk
The Premier League paused for six weeks to make room for this winter World Cup with Arsenal top of the table, leaving many keen to discover if the January window will be used to help maintain what is an unexpected title bid.
Arsenal are prepared to do so if an opportunity arises that the club deem right for the long term, with the Kroenke family — their American owners — wanting to back now-sporting director Edu and manager Mikel Arteta.
Their priority target is Shakhtar Donetsk winger Mykhaylo Mudryk and sources with knowledge of the matter think there is a good chance it will happen, though nothing is agreed at present.
Shakhtar have stated their value for the highly coveted Ukraine international as €100million (£85.9m, $105.3m) – but interested parties are of the understanding that a lower fee would be deemed acceptable.
Arsenal are among the clubs in touch with both Shakhtar and Mudryk’s representatives, with the 21-year-old known to be focused on moving to the Premier League and determined to make the Emirates Stadium his destination.
Brentford had a deal worth €25million in place last summer, when he was also on Arsenal’s radar, and his stock has since risen. It will ultimately come down to the price and while the north London club may have alternative possibilities, Mudryk is their focus.
Not many teams are looking for a LW. Mudryk has pulled a Ronaldo on Shaktar and stated his desire to get out in a tell-it-all interview (with his wife on top of it all). He wanted out last summer, Shaktar kept him. Playing for Shaktar during the spring of 23’ for a mega talent like Mudryk must be close to being unthinkable. They face Rennes in the Europa League, but besides that it’s games on mostly neutral ground (Lviv) or in Poland — against completely hopeless teams (like we can all imagine the problems Shaktar D is in, but imagine the state of like Zorja Luhansk and co that have little resources to start with).
I think it was Srena that claimed that Shaktar wanted 100m for Mudryk. They have been — very — public in their demands for MM. All in all, it just comes across as posturing. They have to sell Mudryk to the highest bidder. And while surely like Villa or Brentford and the likes would ant up for him — there is nobody other than Arsenal of the better teams in the market for a natural LW who can play across the forward line and as a No 10.
Everything points towards Arsenal getting Mudryk on a bargain. Mudryk is a Gareth Bale-esque talent.
Could they get both? I can’t see it. They spent a lot in the summer. With the season they are having — all their first team kids are getting new contracts. That is a big commitment for Arsenal. Their wage bill will be smoking after it.
Could getting “just” Felix be an option for Arsenal? But then it’s just a quick fix, they still must get a long term solution, and they will loose out on Mudryk who most probably think has more potential than Felix. And Felix is on 300k a week. He would probably be behind Martinelli, Jesus, Shaka and Odegard. How does Arsenal motivate paying Felix 300k a week and Odegard 75k a week?
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I know it was a joke, but have just fixed it for you
Haha, actually, with Felix as a False-9 with Rashford AND Gakpo taking perfectly timed runs in behind Felix your proposed formation would be a sick offensive threat in many situations.
Hmm wonder if he'll be able to boost arsenal in a title race, probability not but fun to think about nonetheless.
8 million loan fee would be horrendous on top of all his wages. You're paying double figures for half a season where if you buy him afterwards you're not even really credited with having paid that fee because it's not structured within the deal. It's a separate deal.
Which essentially means if he has ANY adjustment period at all to the PL which isn't unlikely given his type, you have paid 13 million quid for the honour of playing this lad for half a season only to realise none of the benefit in financial terms.
We'd be on the wrong end of that deal. You need to get a fair option to buy so that it makes sense. Wondering what planet people are on to say that's good.
Which essentially means if he has ANY adjustment period at all to the PL which isn't unlikely given his type, you have paid 13 million quid for the honour of playing this lad for half a season only to realise none of the benefit in financial terms.
We'd be on the wrong end of that deal. You need to get a fair option to buy so that it makes sense. Wondering what planet people are on to say that's good.
Good post and I completely agree. Mudryk is very likely our priority and it’s really a matter of Shakhtar coming down in their demands. They also have 37m in transfer debt due soon and very little ability to generate revenue so this sale really does need to happen for them. I don’t think they can take the risk of him getting a major knee injury this spring and ruining his value.
Arsenal arguably still have needs to address at CM and backup LCB. I think those would be priorities over a Felix loan assuming Mudryk is bought.
Paying 14m to loan Felix without an option also doesn’t seem very likely for Arsenal in general. We did this with Odegaard but it only cost us 2.5m in loan fee and wages for half a season.
My guess is that Mendes is using our name to try to generate interest from other clubs.
Seems like one player too many for United if we're going for Gakpo unless the club knows a player is being sold in the summer. Felix will want lots of minutes in his loan spell which look difficult.
We paid initial £4 million loan fee and then further £6 million to extend Ighalo's loan. Tbf, we didn't cover all his wages, but only like half of it (100-150k). Still, the gap in quality between him and Felix is enormous.
Now, one bad deal shouldn't be justification for another, but it does point out that it isn't such a crazy fee as it first seems. Especially considering his talent and the deal in itself does have certain benefits. You will test the player in EPL and under ten Hag system which is great because there are some doubts in both direction. You will have a player to observe for 6 months in which you can asses his mentality as well. In short, there is no better way to get the full picture of a player. On the other hand, if he becomes success and gels with the team/ten Hag/fans regarding future transfer it is not only Atletico decision, but player's as well which would put as instantly in pole position.
Obviously the best way is to negotiate some kind of option to buy, but because of his talent I would still take the deal.
Now, one bad deal shouldn't be justification for another, but it does point out that it isn't such a crazy fee as it first seems. Especially considering his talent and the deal in itself does have certain benefits. You will test the player in EPL and under ten Hag system which is great because there are some doubts in both direction. You will have a player to observe for 6 months in which you can asses his mentality as well. In short, there is no better way to get the full picture of a player. On the other hand, if he becomes success and gels with the team/ten Hag/fans regarding future transfer it is not only Atletico decision, but player's as well which would put as instantly in pole position.
Obviously the best way is to negotiate some kind of option to buy, but because of his talent I would still take the deal.
Can’t make my mind up if he’s what we need or not.
He’s not exactly a great goal scorer but he’s a fantastic player to watch, so silky on the ball.
If Rashford can keep this forum up and keep scoring then we might get away with a more creative centre forward instead of a goal Machine type.
He’s not exactly a great goal scorer but he’s a fantastic player to watch, so silky on the ball.
If Rashford can keep this forum up and keep scoring then we might get away with a more creative centre forward instead of a goal Machine type.
Absolutely
AM can't really give a buy option without setting a fee now. They may want 100m for Felix, but clearly no-one wants to pay that, or they would likely have done so already.
Therefore, AM would have to set a price reasonable enough that a buyer would commit to.50m for instance. AM are now commiting themselves to selling for only 50m, regardless of whether Felix tears it up or not.
Makes more sense for AM to leave their options open, and not commit either party to any fixed price. Simply take the loan fee, save upon his wages and assess his value after the loan period expires.
If he tears it up, then AM can still hold out for their 100m. If he is shite, then they can simply choose to settle for less.
Therefore, AM would have to set a price reasonable enough that a buyer would commit to.50m for instance. AM are now commiting themselves to selling for only 50m, regardless of whether Felix tears it up or not.
Makes more sense for AM to leave their options open, and not commit either party to any fixed price. Simply take the loan fee, save upon his wages and assess his value after the loan period expires.
If he tears it up, then AM can still hold out for their 100m. If he is shite, then they can simply choose to settle for less.
If Castles is correct and if there's no obligation or option to buy then it points to Simeone getting the sack and Joao Felix returning to Atletico under a new coach at the end of the season. He could be also replacing Mbappe at PSG.
Or it may be that an obligation to buy is also an obligation to sell for a lower price than u may have to. Doesn't seem to make much sense to do that, whether Simeone stays or not.
If United or Arsenal agreed to pay the 8M fee but only cover half his wages, would AM really refuse for a player Simeone doesn't want around ? No club in their right mind is bailing AM out of 100M with a straight transfer.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, as they’re hard to compare as they’re different types of players. But by Felix’ age Rashford had had a couple of 20 goal seasons. The closest Felix has got to that was his debut season in the Portuguese league. He’s fancier, but I’m not sure that equates to better.
Bring him in. feck
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