Joao Felix / on loan to Chelsea

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SportingCP96 said:
Fair enough.

Like I’ve said my point with the Leao statement was similar to for example the Kenny daglish or Roy hodgens era of Liverpool where no elite talent would join them.

United squad is much better then in that era but you see what I mean.
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I mean we signed Casemiro 2 months ago. Its not much of a comparison is it? Elite talent probably should be wary of joining us but 10 years on its not an issue. Would you like a list of young, highly rated, talented wingers we've bought in the last 5 minutes? I see what you were saying, its clearly not the case.
 
roonster09 said:
Yeah that's not true, maybe you should go back and read the post again.

I asked very simple question, if you are using goals to judge players, then why are you not using it for other players. You posted goals and assists, so I asked simple question again, why is goals used for one player and goals + assists used for other. Apart from you, no one is interested in any comparison. All I asked for is consistent logic.
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Because one is 27 with a large enough sample size to use those numbers because they hold more weight. We are talking about is martial good enough to be the striker/CF for Manchester United and the answer is 100% no.

You then brought up in your first post “how many times has Leao scored more then 10 goals in a season”

* you inadvertently just tried to compare them their.

Then you said why did goals matter for one and not the other. The answer to that like I told you before is one is a winger who scored 14 and was voted MVP of a top league at 22. Those numbers look to be equaled or beater this season. Also martial assist don’t look that much better in the last 3 season hence didn’t feel the need to bring those up.
 
caid said:
I mean we signed Casemiro 2 months ago. Its not much of a comparison is it? Elite talent probably should be wary of joining us but 10 years on its not an issue. Would you like a list of young, highly rated, talented wingers we've bought in the last 5 minutes? I see what you were saying, its clearly not the case.
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Fair enough.

We can agree to disagree.
 
I must admit I chuckled when a Sporting fan came on and said Leao was beyond our level, and destined for a bigger move. I can’t even be bothered to debate the preposterousness of those two statements.
 
simonhch said:
I must admit I chuckled when a Sporting fan came on and said Leao was beyond our level, and destined for a bigger move. I can’t even be bothered to debate the preposterousness of those two statements.
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As if being a Sporting fan mattered. Catch up on the posts first.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Because one is 27 with a large enough sample size to use those numbers because they hold more weight. We are talking about is martial good enough to be the striker/CF for Manchester United and the answer is 100% no.

You then brought up in your first post “how many times has Leao scored more then 10 goals in a season”

* you inadvertently just tried to compare them their.

Then you said why did goals matter for one and not the other. The answer to that like I told you before is one is a winger who scored 14 and was voted MVP of a top league at 22. Those numbers look to be equaled or beater this season. Also martial assist don’t look that much better in the last 3 season hence didn’t feel the need to bring those up.
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You are missing the point, when you big up one player and play down other by using goal stats, then the player you are hyping should have better numbers. "Leao is a winger" is a poor point, he isn't. He is a wing forward, just like how Martial is/was for around 50% of his time at ManUtd.

When you set arbitrary "20 goals" for one player, you should also apply that to other player. Otherwise you should just accept the point you are using to downplay the player is a poor one. You can rate one player and not rate other at all, it's perfectly fine but when your point is "He scored 20+ goals even once" then using the same logic, the player you are hyping score more than 10 goals once.

You can rate Martial or think he is league 1 player, I don't really care. Most ManUtd fans gave up on him and somehow he changed lot of people to change their opinions because of lack of options and his performance in preseason.

I'm not the one who compared them, like I mentioned in previous post, if you are applying some method to rate player then at least be consistent, don't come up with excuses like "he is a winger" he isn't.
 
SportingCP96 said:
United can’t attract a guy like Leao. He’s beyond their level.

However in Joao Felix this is the perfect opportunity to buy him because you would not afford him if he was playing what his Potential shows he can.

Felix is only 22 with world class potential. United have Martial…. That’s simply not good enough as he is 28 already and is hardly a good player.

Felix would fit this United team like a glove.
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We're not that shite, we seem to be on the rise too so that's certainty and exaggeration on your part.
 
Ok I’ll end the off topic.

You lot were right and I was wrong, we can go back to talking about Felix now.
 
SportingCP96 said:
United can’t attract a guy like Leao. He’s beyond their level.

However in Joao Felix this is the perfect opportunity to buy him because you would not afford him if he was playing what his Potential shows he can.

Felix is only 22 with world class potential. United have Martial…. That’s simply not good enough as he is 28 already and is hardly a good player.

Felix would fit this United team like a glove.
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Tend to agree
 
MadDogg said:
I think the issue is that you questioned Martial's talent or skill. There's a lot of things that Martial can be criticised for, but that is the one thing that can't be questioned. In terms of pure ability he should basically be a slightly worse Benzema. That's what is so frustrating with him as, other than his debut season and 19/20, he hasn't reached anywhere near the level that he really should have.

It's his workrate, his consistency, his mental toughness, and now his injury proneness that can certainly be doubted. And those are the things that have stopped him becoming the player he should have, not his ability.
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Errrr wut?
 
simonhch said:
Oh, I caught up on them. Did nothing to assuage me of the ridiculousness of the assertions.
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Awesome so your point about a "Sporting fan having an opinion" is still nonsensical GG.
 
Be interested to see him in this team but only if we could do a shrewd deal for number 9 as well
 
roonster09 said:
Tbh that's a dumb point, Mbappe and Haaland won't join so Leao won't join. That doesn't make any sense.

Felix who will be 23 in 10 days is a 22 year old, Martial who will be 27 in 40 days is a 27 year old already, amazing how people play with ages depending on what they want to highlight.

Anyways Felix is a good player with lot of potential, that's something most would agree. Your posts on Leao is laughably poor and didn't make any sense. Judged Martial on goals and never spoke about Rafael Leao's goal scoring record. Wonder why.
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28 in his first post actually.

Leao being out of our reach is laughable. First off I'm not sure he's upgrade on Sancho on the left and he still needs to adjust to PL.
Secondly he's LWF an area we're stacked.
Third I don't see City, Barca, Real, Pool, Bayern (clubs that are currently better state than us) going for him or being remotely interested in him.

He had a good season last year but he'll bite the opportunity to join us if we are interested so I'm not sure where that crap comes from.

Onto Felix he's not improving at the moment and fell behind in the pecking order in not so good Atletico side.

So far reminds me a lot of Dybala progression and I'm not sure it's a solution for us either.
 
Enigma_87 said:
28 in his first post actually.

Leao being out of our reach is laughable. First off I'm not sure he's upgrade on Sancho on the left and he still needs to adjust to PL.
Secondly he's LWF an area we're stacked.
Third I don't see City, Barca, Real, Pool, Bayern (clubs that are currently better state than us) going for him or being remotely interested in him.

He had a good season last year but he'll bite the opportunity to join us if we are interested so I'm not sure where that crap comes from.

Onto Felix he's not improving at the moment and fell behind in the pecking order in not so good Atletico side.

So far reminds me a lot of Dybala progression and I'm not sure it's a solution for us either.
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Exactly, leao is beyond our level is just deluded talk.

Also on Felix, i think he will be good addition, he is very skillful player and will suit attacking system.
 
Can he play as a number 9? I don't watch many Atletico games as they're usually boring as hell, but I've always thought on him as a striker in a front 2.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Can he play as a number 9? I don't watch many Atletico games as they're usually boring as hell, but I've always thought on him as a striker in a front 2.
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Personally I think he’d be perfect for how we play at the moment. Not an on the defenders shoulder style poacher, stylistically much closer to Martial roaming around and creating a lot of space and playing passes for Rashford, Bruno and Antony to run into whilst also having physical attributes that make him a nuisance when he does decide to get in behind or getting on to crosses.
 
The problem is. If he was available for 50-60 million then it'd be worth the risk he isn't what we need.

They'll want 100 million for him so it's not a gamble worth taking.
 
phelans shorts said:
That’s the going rate for a centre forward. Not even a quality one like Felix, that’s the rate for Darwin Nunez
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Maybe but if I am paying 100M € I want Vlahovic or Oshimen. Not a player who we are not sure can play as a no.9 as talented as he is. I just don't see how Atletico don't take a loss given how he has done there.
 
mav_9me said:
Maybe but if I am paying 100M € I want Vlahovic or Oshimen. Not a player who we are not sure can play as a no.9 as talented as he is. I just don't see how Atletico don't take a loss given how he has done there.
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Felix is better than Osimhen, who’s nothing to write home about. If he were playing for another side he may even be better than Vlahović.

There’s no doubt he can play as a centre forward at all, it’s where he made his break after all.
 
phelans shorts said:
Personally I think he’d be perfect for how we play at the moment. Not an on the defenders shoulder style poacher, stylistically much closer to Martial roaming around and creating a lot of space and playing passes for Rashford, Bruno and Antony to run into whilst also having physical attributes that make him a nuisance when he does decide to get in behind or getting on to crosses.
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I'm between those two types of strikers on one hand we've seen that Martial improves our attack but on the other we are generating a bunch of chances and not scoring enough. So not really sure what type of striker will ten Hag fancy the most.
 
SAFMUTD said:
I'm between those two types of strikers on one hand we've seen that Martial improves our attack but on the other we are generating a bunch of chances and not scoring enough. So not really sure what type of striker will ten Hag fancy the most.
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But we are scoring when Martial is on the pitch, as players are aware that they’ll have space to run into and in turn score. When we have the other guy there everyone has to stick more rigidly to their positions so he can be in the middle where he then just doesn’t bother getting forward.
 
phelans shorts said:
But we are scoring when Martial is on the pitch, as players are aware that they’ll have space to run into and in turn score. When we have the other guy there everyone has to stick more rigidly to their positions so he can be in the middle where he then just doesn’t bother getting forward.
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I agree, just looking at ten Hag story with Haller and Brobbey, he seems to fancy the more rigid physical number 9s. But I do agree our current style suits more for a "Martial's" type of striker.
 
SAFMUTD said:
I agree, just looking at ten Hag story with Haller and Brobbey, he seems to fancy the more rigid physical number 9s. But I do agree our current style suits more for a "Martial's" type of striker.
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It could well be, whatever style of striker we go for they need an element of consistency in their decisions making. It could well be that the physical option was primarily just to ease in the changeover and have a reliable focal point. We’ll obviously know better next summer.
 
phelans shorts said:
Felix is better than Osimhen, who’s nothing to write home about. If he were playing for another side he may even be better than Vlahović.

There’s no doubt he can play as a centre forward at all, it’s where he made his break after all.
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Clearly never watched Osimhen, who by the way has a 20 minute brace right now.
 
SAFMUTD said:
I agree, just looking at ten Hag story with Haller and Brobbey, he seems to fancy the more rigid physical number 9s. But I do agree our current style suits more for a "Martial's" type of striker.
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I think either type could work in the current team.

I'm leaning personally towards Osimhen who's a natural striker and seems to have more grit and fight than Felix.
 
roonster09 said:
Exactly, leao is beyond our level is just deluded talk.

Also on Felix, i think he will be good addition, he is very skillful player and will suit attacking system.
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My first post in this thread I’m fairly sure. I love Felix, he’s a baller and he seems super confident. Great age and he should be coming at a slight discount let’s say. He would be a massive pain to play against popping up everywhere finding solutions. The main worry I have is about his finishing and intensity. Is it enough to take us up a level for the money spent? I’d rather we got him than any of our rivals for sure.
 
phelans shorts said:
Personally I think he’d be perfect for how we play at the moment. Not an on the defenders shoulder style poacher, stylistically much closer to Martial roaming around and creating a lot of space and playing passes for Rashford, Bruno and Antony to run into whilst also having physical attributes that make him a nuisance when he does decide to get in behind or getting on to crosses.
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An on the defenders shoulder style poacher is much more what we need.

I'm sure Felix is better than Osimhen, generally, as from what I've seen he is a sensational player. I think Osimhen would be a better fit for what we could currently surround him with though.

It's a difficult one. Similar to de Jong, if Felix is a possibility then generally we shouldn't be looking to pass up the opportunity to bring in a player of such quality, but he doesn't truly fill a need.
 
Mepp said:
Clearly never watched Osimhen, who by the way has a 20 minute brace right now.
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Scott McTominay once scored two in the first 90 seconds of a game, so what? He shouldn’t be our centre forward either.

I don’t see anything special about him at all. Scoring 2 in 20 minutes in one game against Sassuolo doesn’t change that.
sherrinford said:
An on the defenders shoulder style poacher is much more what we need.

I'm sure Felix is better than Osimhen, generally, as from what I've seen he is a sensational player. I think Osimhen would be a better fit for what we could currently surround him with though.

It's a difficult one. Similar to de Jong, if Felix is a possibility then generally we shouldn't be looking to pass up the opportunity to bring in a player of such quality, but he doesn't truly fill a need.
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Personally, I’d much prefer this kind of player. We have plenty of players who can exploit the space an intelligent moving centre forward brings to all chip in with goals, whereas an on the shoulder passenger blunts our all round play and leaves us much more predictable and reliant on them scoring the goals. To be a player like that at the highest level and worthwhile you need to be a Haaland level freak, and I don’t see another one of them anywhere.
 
phelans shorts said:
Felix is better than Osimhen, who’s nothing to write home about. If he were playing for another side he may even be better than Vlahović.

There’s no doubt he can play as a centre forward at all, it’s where he made his break after all.
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How the feck is Felix better than Osimhen? Do you even watch football, seriously.
He had his breakthrough season and moved to Atletico the season after for over 100 million and has been shit since with few moments of brilliance.

He can't get in the first team at club and International level and before you blame it on Simeone's negative football, remember how many strikers have flourished under Simeone.
 
MUnchies said:
How the feck is Felix better than Osimhen? Do you even watch football, seriously.
He had his breakthrough season and moved to Atletico the season after for over 100 million and has been shit since with few moments of brilliance.

He can't get in the first team at club and International level and before you blame it on Simeone's negative football, remember how many strikers have flourished under Simeone.
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Alright Victor simmer down. I rate one player much higher than the other from what I’ve seen of both. Don’t take it so personally.
 
MUnchies said:
How the feck is Felix better than Osimhen? Do you even watch football, seriously.
He had his breakthrough season and moved to Atletico the season after for over 100 million and has been shit since with few moments of brilliance.

He can't get in the first team at club and International level and before you blame it on Simeone's negative football, remember how many strikers have flourished under Simeone.
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Yep, zero real evidence of Felix being better than Osimhen and especially as a striker.
 
phelans shorts said:
Alright Victor simmer down. I rate one player much higher than the other from what I’ve seen of both. Don’t take it so personally.
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I am calm as feck, my username should give you a clue. I get preferring Felix but to say Osimhen is "nothing to right home about" was just clueless.
 
Ali Dia said:
My first post in this thread I’m fairly sure. I love Felix, he’s a baller and he seems super confident. Great age and he should be coming at a slight discount let’s say. He would be a massive pain to play against popping up everywhere finding solutions. The main worry I have is about his finishing and intensity. Is it enough to take us up a level for the money spent? I’d rather we got him than any of our rivals for sure.
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Yeah I agree with your post, there is surely a risk, especially with productivity and also like you said, it would be painful to watch if he signs for our rivals.
 
To me Felix is no way near the goalscorer we need. We'd be banking on him doubling his goalscoring rate at minimum, when he also needs to adjust to the PL. There aren't enough goals with Felix at his current rate along with Bruno, Antony and Sancho/Rashford. You have to look at what we have when buying a striker - we don't have ruthless goalscoring wide players.
 
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