Attract world class multiple ucl winners but somehow Leao is above our level.
Joao Felix / on loan to Chelsea
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Attract world class multiple ucl winners but somehow Leao is above our level.
More importantly, how many times Rafael Leao has scored more than 10 goals in a season. Beyond our level
I watch a lot of Spanish football, and what im talking about is definitely not his game.
This. Haller is a big lad so people tend to think of him as a classic 9 and that's how westham used him and failed. At franfurt he was the one linking their fantastic front line, when he left westham his ability as a link up striker was utilised once more.
Joao Felix is an interesting one. Despite the fact that Atleti was not and is not a great fit for him, his game has developed since he's been under Simeone. Could he lead the line as #9 for Man Utd? Potentially. Felix has become more of a 9.5 since he moved to Spain and less an all purpose generic attacker. For his size he's not bad with his back to goal. However, for what it would cost I'm not sure he's the right target. Unless it was some kind of swap deal for Cristiano Ronaldo.
I get the Martial comparison but from what I’ve seen peak Martial is a fair bit quicker than Felix, has no issue staying high and can offer a threat in behind. I’m not convinced with Felix at all - he’ll come very deep like Ronaldo into Bruno’s space - he doesn’t stay high occupying centre backs because he doesn’t have the pace or strength to hold them off. His goalscoring record is also pretty poor. Huge risk for the likely fees we’re talking about - has he ever played as a lone striker in his career? I think we need an Osimhen rather than a Felix - or if we do want a link player just get Kane next year who also scores feck tons of goals. Having said that every time I’ve seen Felix play against us I’ve left thinking he’s a future superstar. So who knows. Plus there could be a deal to be done - fallen out with Simeone, wants to leave, is barely making sub appearances, 2.5 years on contract and could be pivotal for Mendes in us letting Ronaldo leave.
You are usually a very good poster but that’s such a senseless assessment by you from start to finish. Still giving you the benefit of the doubt though that you aren’t on a wind up.
A) Leao isn’t an established superstar already you are claiming him to be so to say united can’t attract him when we signed nothing but superstars with far bigger gravitas than him in the last decade is honestly laughable.
B)Couldn’t afford Felix? Now if there is anything we excel at, i wonder what that is? It actually has been our undoing, throwing bucket loads of money at every opportunity at every decent to world class player. You know why ? Because we can AFFORD it.
C) wrong and wrong.
I haven’t seen enough of Felix, but is he a little light weight?
It’s interesting with Ten Hag and strikers. He is pragmatic, yes, but what does he prefer?
At Go Ahead, in the more kick and run second level, he used tall and strong Marnix Kolder as a ‘kapstock’, a target for long out balls.
At Bayern, with a much more possession capable team, he used 193 cm but comfortable on the ball Gerrit Wegkamp the most.
At Utrecht, punching from below in the Eredivisie, big strong Sebastian Haller became the preferred choice.
At Ajax, he had the talent Dolberg and an ageing Huntelaar at first. He put Dolberg (albeit with a few inconvenient injuries) in the back seat, got in Dusan Tadic (a no 10/wide forward) and shifted between using Huntelaar and Tadic as a 9/false 9 I believe. Then he brought in Haller again and returned Tadic permanently to the wing. He seemed more interested in Brobbey than Dolberg as talents go.
At United, if the most confirmed rumours are to be believed, he was interested in Nunez and Arnautovic.
To me this looks like if he can, he prefers a strong striker, good in the air, high working drive off the ball, competent yet not necessarily brilliant in the build up. This doesn’t really exist at United. Ronaldo can be a target for long balls, but his press is almost nonexistent. Martial and Rashford are better, yet still weak in this aspect, and Rashford as a target striker is nowhere near yeat. Martial has the physical attributes, but have as you imply more in common with Tadic than Haller, and Ten Hag brought in Haller at Ajax while he had Tadic as a striker option, because he preferred Haller as a 9 and Tadic on the side.
To me, this doesn’t sound like a manager that would have Joao Felix as his main target as a striker. He would probably be able to use Felix, but to claim, as the post I was answering, that Felix fit Ten Hag’s Utd team ‘like a glove’ seems ill founded to me.
What are you smoking bro?
United could attract Varane and Casemiro. Who tf is this Leao guy compared to them?
Thats what i saw with Haller at Ajax and Frankfurt. I think we need the link up (Martial ilk) to play fluid football and penetrate into the box more like ETH Ajax. That way, the whole frontline will be more potent and goals will be share amongst them instead of trying to get the renew popular #9. One more thing Adisa pointed out is that we are not that dominated to the point of carrying the like of Haaland in our team.
In England where 6 of those goals were in the qualifying rounds of the EL.
The fact is Martial has scored that season 17 goals from open play in the PL which is still the best record of any United forward post-Fergie and at a better rate than Jimenez.
His entire posting on this thread is either a massive troll or utterly stupid. At some point, it wasn't worth replying to either way.
You do realize that there is no actual pattern here outside of Ten Hag using the players that the team had or players that the DOF brought. That's the thing about him, he is pragmatic and flexible.
Also Felix and Martial are the same size which is also the size of Tadic. Which brings us to the most important point, after actually coaching the team who did he pick as his striker? Someone like Martial or someone like Nunez?
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I wouldn’t say no to him but he doesn’t really solve our striker issue, does he? Although we know the cnut can head a ball.
God, the shite being spewed on page 15 is impressive.
Why do I keep reading this? When has he shown world class potential (like an Aguero/Leao/Dembele)? He runs into walls, passing is nothing special, can’t interchange on the wings, hardly scores and apparently has clashed regularly with coaching staff.
He’s a decent player who can do a job for a Europa Conference team but not a title challenger. Unless he is a late bloomer.
Ok so to clear things up because the “not at his level part” seems to be the thing winding people up the most.
Naturally United right now are not as attractive as they were in the past (hence why I put not as his level), yes they were able to bring varane and casemiro but those were older guys who already accomplished it all and are on the way “down” in their career trajectory. Getting guys with huge Potential who are on the way up is very hard unless your one of those clubs competing now. Hence why Mbappe, and Haaland would not come to United and if VINI JR became available he also most likely would not come to United and Leao is right behind those three names. It’s the sad reality but it is the truth at the moment. So I hope I cleared that part up at least as I feel was taken out of context.
Secondly Leao is going to be cost big money (which United have) but I believe he wants to go to a club who both competes for league titles and possibly has CL winning ambitions. Leao (and I know this from experience ) is a cnut and he’s about to feck Milan big time (hence not signing a renewal) and he’s not going to go to a club which likely won’t be winning a EPL on the next years.
As for the Martial post, I’m sorry fellas but I stick by that. United wants to come back to the top and it won’t be with players like martial. His last few years have been very poor, e 27 and he is not a guy who consistently scores (the main function of a striker) yes his link up play is ok but nothing more. Someone here said he was a “very very good finisher” I’m sorry but if that was the case you would not have hit 20 goals only one time in your career. It won’t be now where the magically turns into a 30 goals a season striker or even a consistent one at that matter.
I get it he is a United player and the new toy back from loan AND you desperately need someone for that position so you want him to be the guy but if Martial played for liverpool or Tottenham their would be meme threads about him and none of you would want him to join United. Your looking at it through different lenses. That’s my opinion.
Now as for Felix, he’s still only 22 and has the potential. He also would be much more affordable right now as his stock is low. Could he end up being a martial? Yes of course but at his age and with his talent these are the gambles United should be making at the right price.
Back then most of United signings were on potential and not ready made stars and that paid huge dividends for them.
Naturally United right now are not as attractive as they were in the past (hence why I put not as his level), yes they were able to bring varane and casemiro but those were older guys who already accomplished it all and are on the way “down” in their career trajectory. Getting guys with huge Potential who are on the way up is very hard unless your one of those clubs competing now. Hence why Mbappe, and Haaland would not come to United and if VINI JR became available he also most likely would not come to United and Leao is right behind those three names. It’s the sad reality but it is the truth at the moment. So I hope I cleared that part up at least as I feel was taken out of context.
Secondly Leao is going to be cost big money (which United have) but I believe he wants to go to a club who both competes for league titles and possibly has CL winning ambitions. Leao (and I know this from experience ) is a cnut and he’s about to feck Milan big time (hence not signing a renewal) and he’s not going to go to a club which likely won’t be winning a EPL on the next years.
As for the Martial post, I’m sorry fellas but I stick by that. United wants to come back to the top and it won’t be with players like martial. His last few years have been very poor, e 27 and he is not a guy who consistently scores (the main function of a striker) yes his link up play is ok but nothing more. Someone here said he was a “very very good finisher” I’m sorry but if that was the case you would not have hit 20 goals only one time in your career. It won’t be now where the magically turns into a 30 goals a season striker or even a consistent one at that matter.
I get it he is a United player and the new toy back from loan AND you desperately need someone for that position so you want him to be the guy but if Martial played for liverpool or Tottenham their would be meme threads about him and none of you would want him to join United. Your looking at it through different lenses. That’s my opinion.
Now as for Felix, he’s still only 22 and has the potential. He also would be much more affordable right now as his stock is low. Could he end up being a martial? Yes of course but at his age and with his talent these are the gambles United should be making at the right price.
Back then most of United signings were on potential and not ready made stars and that paid huge dividends for them.
Beyond our level
Also, in response to your most recent post, we are as attractive now as we have been at any other point post Ferguson. We will be competing for titles very soon.Tbh that's a dumb point, Mbappe and Haaland won't join so Leao won't join. That doesn't make any sense.
Felix who will be 23 in 10 days is a 22 year old, Martial who will be 27 in 40 days is a 27 year old already, amazing how people play with ages depending on what they want to highlight.
Anyways Felix is a good player with lot of potential, that's something most would agree. Your posts on Leao is laughably poor and didn't make any sense. Judged Martial on goals and never spoke about Rafael Leao's goal scoring record. Wonder why.
Leao is not a striker he is a winger….he had double digit in goals and assists last season and is on track for the same this season. All while being considered the best player in the whole league at 22 and being the key player to Milan’s league title win.
Let’s not start that comparison game.
I didn’t see Felix age but if he’s 23 in 10 days then yes he is already 23 in my book….even then still young.
Like I said if Martial played for liverpool nobody here would be defending him.
Also about your first point, what I’m saying is he is in that upper bracket of young players in the world.behind the other 3.
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Leao was 14G 12A last season
This season he is at 6G 9A in 15 games.
He is a winger not a striker. Those are very very good numbers and based on current stats he is improving…
Wow, the number of double downs on shit takes is impressive. I wonder who had most goals at age 22 out of Leao, Felix and Martial.
I see where you're coming from though I think Martial has undisputed talent but lacks workrate.
Jimenez doesn't have the same talent but works his socks off.
In the ideal world we'd have a best version of the two - Martial's talent and Jimenez' workrate.
I wonder whose has better individual seasons by 22?
Nonetheless we are talking about martial right now and what he has shown since 22.
Hey maybe I end up being wrong and martial becomes an absolute stud. If that happens I will be here to say I was wrong.
However I very much doubt that will happen.
"If Martial played for Liverpool". If Leao wasn't Portuguese, you wouldn't be defending him. So?
Martial was also winger, he played as CF only in 2-3 seasons and this has nothing to do with Martial. Not sure about comparing them, apart from you maybe no one did.
And now the assists are posted. It's funny how different ages or different stats for different people. Wonder why only goals was posted for Martial and Goals + assists for Leao.
Again, Leao is obviously good player but all these "How many times player x scored 20 goals" is hilarious take when trying to big up Leao when he scored more than 10 goals once in his career and somehow coming up with laughably poor "he is beyond ManUtd's reach".
He's 26 until he's 27
I'm not sure, Martial banged in 17 goals and was our best player as a 19/20 year old, haven't followed the others careers.
Martial is a striker for United…..so yes that matters quite a bit I would imagine.
Leao being Portuguese has nothing to do with anything. I’m going off of pure quality which one has and the other….is alright but not for a competing United.
In my top 5 favorite players in the world right now only one is Portuguese want to guess who? I’ll give you a hint….it’s not Leao
I rate Leao because he’s good and not because of his nationality. He could be Japanese and I would still say he’s top class. Kind of like this Georgian guy from Napoli who I think is fecking brilliant.
Dalot?
Martial played most of his career as a winger for ManUtd or a mix between winger and CF. Also Martial or Leao are not wingers, they are wing forwards and in most clubs they score lot of goals. We are not talking about 90s here where wingers run to byline and whip in crosses.
Again, I dont think there is anyone who would argue against "leao is a good player" posts, it's the over the top hyperbolic "he is beyond ManUtd level" posts, it's laughable. When the players we signed are mentioned, you will just come up with list of excuses and again, not able to sign Mbappe and Haaland has 0 relevance to signing Leao. It's like signing clubs can't afford Messi, Ronaldo so they can't sign Di Maria.
Bingo
It’s a matter of opinion.
I don’t rate Martial and you do that’s fine.
I don’t think Leao would sign for United at the moment unless it was a $$$ offer he could not refuse. If Madrid, United, Bayern, PSG, all offered Leao the same exact contract United would be last on his list between those clubs at the current moment. That is what I mean by “not United level”. He would naturally join a competing club. So their is nothing laughable or hyperbolic about it if you understood exactly what I mean.
Naturally especially for Leao cause he is a cash cow cnut if United give him a blank check and the others don’t it’s different.
Again, this has nothing to do with Martial and I don't even know if anyone is even interested in any comparisons.
ManUtd won't sign Leao as that's the position that's lower in their priority. Madrid also won't sign Leao, doesn't mean Leao is beyond Madrid's level.
Bold part, nice cover up. Fair enough if you meant that, will be interesting to see how many would believe that. It sounds like backtracking.Also it's not just Leao, even if all 4 clubs try to sign French B league player, they will still pick Madrid.
I think the issue is that you questioned Martial's talent or skill. There's a lot of things that Martial can be criticised for, but that is the one thing that can't be questioned. In terms of pure ability he should basically be a slightly worse Benzema. That's what is so frustrating with him as, other than his debut season and 19/20, he hasn't reached anywhere near the level that he really should have.
It's his workrate, his consistency, his mental toughness, and now his injury proneness that can certainly be doubted. And those are the things that have stopped him becoming the player he should have, not his ability.
If you want to say it’s a cover up then go ahead.
All you have to do is re read everything I wrote. When saying “current United” or saying in a “real United” or talking about him wanting a “competing team”. Clearly that is talking about the current level of clubs.
For example if this was prime United in 2008 with Ferguson then that is completely different. But it isn’t.
Like I said before I have Leao right behind Vini Jr. in the best U23 players, that’s a top tier player list.
How is this a Martial vs Leao debate right now?
Leao would be awesome too, but I'm not sure why the two are being compared, let alone in a Felix thread.
In all honesty, a front three consisting of all them would be amazing, I'm not sure how well Leao could get accustomed to the right wing, but as player types I would love to see it. They'd also fill the gaps in midfield left by Bruno when necessary. Perhaps someone who's more of a runner would be necessary with two of those three, but either way it would be one heck of a team in PES
Leao would be awesome too, but I'm not sure why the two are being compared, let alone in a Felix thread.
In all honesty, a front three consisting of all them would be amazing, I'm not sure how well Leao could get accustomed to the right wing, but as player types I would love to see it. They'd also fill the gaps in midfield left by Bruno when necessary. Perhaps someone who's more of a runner would be necessary with two of those three, but either way it would be one heck of a team in PES
It’s not supposed to be one. My initial post I guess got under the skin of most so I’m explaining both of my points,.How is this a Martial vs Leao debate right now?
Leao would be awesome too, but I'm not sure why the two are being compared, let alone in a Felix thread.
In all honesty, a front three consisting of all them would be amazing, I'm not sure how well Leao could get accustomed to the right wing, but as player types I would love to see it. They'd also fill the gaps in midfield left by Bruno when necessary. Perhaps someone who's more of a runner would be necessary with two of those three, but either way it would be one heck of a team in PES
Roonster then brought up Leaos numbers and inadvertently started comparing both him and martial.
The off topic should be done now and we can talk about where Felix is going again.
I dont think anyone really rates Martial. He could be useful possibly. Your right not to rate him, just for the wrong reasons.
The Leao statement was and remains dumb to be honest. Theres no universe where them 4 clubs offer the same contract and if he moves we're probably one of his more likely destinations. 2 clubs in world football being preferable doesn't mean much and is a fair bit of a climb down from 'beyond their level'.
Yeah that's not true, maybe you should go back and read the post again.
I asked very simple question, if you are using goals to judge players, then why are you not using it for other players. You posted goals and assists, so I asked simple question again, why is goals used for one player and goals + assists used for other. Apart from you, no one is interested in any comparison. All I asked for is consistent logic.
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Fair enough.
Like I’ve said my point with the Leao statement was similar to for example the Kenny daglish or Roy hodgens era of Liverpool where no elite talent would join them.
United squad is much better then in that era but you see what I mean.
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