Jesse Lingard | Seoul singer

Pogue Mahone said:
Whether it's deserved or not, Lingard, Rashford and Pogba (honorable mention to Sancho) have ended up as United's equivalent to Liverpool's spice boys. Although the Liverpool lot were probably better footballers, come to think of it.
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I'd say the Liverpool lot were definitely better footballers.

We've wasted hundreds of millions in transfers on utter shit and that's probably the major reason for the mess we're now in but I also think having the likes of Lingard in the first team squad for 6 or 7 years is another reason. He had one period of 2 or 3 months in the 17/18 season where he played well consistently and scored goals and other than that he was blatantly never good enough.

He was never lazy though, I never thought he had the ability to play for us but it wasn't a case of him strolling around the pitch like Sancho and Rashford did.
 
Pickle85 said:
Agreed. I think Lingard is a prat but he's not destroyed United's culture. Nor have Rashford or Pogba. They're a symptom not a cause. Like casemiro and Ronaldo were symptoms of us spending crazy sums on over the hill former greats, not a cause. In another universe in which Rashford is managed by a Klopp or a Pep (or a fergie obviously but he was retired) and not given insane wages so soon he has a longer, more successful united career and is loved by united fans everywhere.
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It was a complete failure to sign pretty much anyone of an appropriate personality to lead the club on the pitch.

Vidic was Fergie's last captain, and he left one year after Fergie did. After that we gave it to Rooney for a bit, which possibly wasn't the worst choice, but it seemed very much like Fergie had planned on letting him leave in the summer of 2013, and he was definitely on the decline.

Then Carrick had the captaincy for a season, but only made 2 league appearances all campaign, then Valencia, who only made 6 league appearances, then Young, who left in the January window.

It wasn't until almost 7 after Fergie's retirement that we had our first non-Fergie captain. If we'd had anyone but De Gea and Jones left from Fergie's last squad, we'd have probably given it to them.
 
Pickle85 said:
I guess it's a bit chicken and egg, but I'd argue that a preexisting culture let them get away with it.
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Rockets Redglare said:
I don’t remember Lingard ever being accused of being a poor trainer.
He was disliked for being an annoying prat, but as far as I’m aware he always put the effort in.
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Certainly not focused, Lingard. Was busy making his social media videos when close to kick offs or on training days.

The other two had issues bothering to turn up on time.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Lingard always seemed pretty fit and could run for days. That wasn't the problem.
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Lingard was a limited footballer who became way too important to the side because of a failure to properly invest in the squad.

Under Fergie he'd have had a season or two in and around the first team, maybe hit double figures for appearances once, then been sent packing to a mid-table side.
 
Rooney said that after Fergie he left he found players dancing after defeats. He didn't mention Jesse but I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the people he was talking about.

Lingard didn't lack effort in the same way Sancho and Rashford did nor did he kick up a storm in training. His own level deteriorated towards the end of Mourinho's spell, but it's the club's fault for not moving him on as he was a local lad and protecting his value bla bla bla...

I do think he lacked the heart and mentality of a winner, when the chips are down you need someone who want joke around but put the hard graft in and give the others a kick up the backside.

His FA Cup final goal was amazing and I thank him for that but he was a product of what's been wrong with the club since Fergie left.
 
horsechoker said:
Rooney said that after Fergie he left he found players dancing after defeats. He didn't mention Jesse but I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the people he was talking about.

Lingard didn't lack effort in the same way Sancho and Rashford did nor did he kick up a storm in training. His own level deteriorated towards the end of Mourinho's spell, but it's the club's fault for not moving him on as he was a local lad and protecting his value bla bla bla...

I do think he lacked the heart and mentality of a winner, when the chips are down you need someone who want joke around but put the hard graft in and give the others a kick up the backside.

His FA Cup final goal was amazing and I thank him for that but he was a product of what's been wrong with the club since Fergie left.
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I think this is ultimately quite telling:



He wasn't there to win, he was there for a good time.
 
Alex99 said:
I think this is ultimately quite telling:



He wasn't there to win, he was there for a good time.
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roy-keane-really.gif
 
Alex99 said:
I think this is ultimately quite telling:



He wasn't there to win, he was there for a good time.
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This is what most MU fans mean with "ruined the culture of our team" off course it's an exaggerating statement, them alone didn't ruin it. But this "let's just have fun" mentality has no place in a team like MU, imo.
 
Always irks me a little when people say that he didn’t have the talent to play at this level. He did. But he fell into a hole of depression and fan led toxicity because they didn’t like his dance. He has never wronged the club and by all accounts he’s a nice lad. I can’t understand the pelters that he gets from our fans.

Tell you what, he’d have been a star had he played for Amorim



Damn not loading. In YouTube look up “Jessie Lingard best Manchester united goals” and choose the top 10 compilation
 
Obviously Lingard, Rashford, Pogba and co are not responsible for destroying the club's culture, nobody ever said they were.

What has been said ad infinitum here, but never particularly well articulated by pundits or the press, is that they are the products of a club with a rotten culture. Massively lacked professionalism, lacked grit, lacked winners mentalities, too obsessed with their brand images and with gaming and so on and so forth... not like that makes them bad people, just bad elite sportsmen.
 
golden_blunder said:
He scored in more than 1 cup final. Seemed to perform more often than not
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The problem with Lingard (and it's not exclusive to him) is how often he'd be completely anonymous in the league.

We've not really had much issue turning up in cup games.
 
Alex99 said:
The problem with Lingard (and it's not exclusive to him) is how often he'd be completely anonymous in the league.

We've not really had much issue turning up in cup games.
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Sure, consistency. And I’m not gonna argue that we should have kept him. I’m glad that he got out when he did.

I just think it’s over the top abuse he gets. For what? Doing silly little dances.
 
golden_blunder said:
Always irks me a little when people say that he didn’t have the talent to play at this level. He did. But he fell into a hole of depression and fan led toxicity because they didn’t like his dance. He has never wronged the club and by all accounts he’s a nice lad. I can’t understand the pelters that he gets from our fans.

Tell you what, he’d have been a star had he played for Amorim



Damn not loading. In YouTube look up “Jessie Lingard best Manchester united goals” and choose the top 10 compilation
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I was thinking the other day Lingard of the past would have slot into this team quite nicely. His movement into the box was always very good.

That said he was and is the wrong type of character. You don't end up fading away as he has done if you're a serious determined professional.
 
I think Lingard gets a bad rap for putting himself in the public eye and being part of a lacklustre United side. However, as a footballer he always gave his all. He had decent technique, could run for days, good movement off the ball and scored some important goals in cup finals. He was a solid squad player pushing for starts, nothing more and nothing less.
 
Alex99 said:
I think this is ultimately quite telling:



He wasn't there to win, he was there for a good time.
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JBG said:
This is what most MU fans mean with "ruined the culture of our team" off course it's an exaggerating statement, them alone didn't ruin it. But this "let's just have fun" mentality has no place in a team like MU, imo.
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This is the mindset of a lot of football fans, take one thing and understand it as if x = y and there are no grey areas or nuances in life.

In life there are lots of nuances and not everything is literally black and white.

Having fun does not mean he doesn’t take his job seriously, wouldn’t you be having fun at every available moment that you can?

You act as if playing for Man Utd should be 100% intensive and 100% laser focused at all moments and if you aren’t, you’re a waster who doesn’t deserve to be there.

Life doesn’t work like that, if you do live like that you’ll be very unhappy and not able to enjoy what you do have because you’re always looking for the next thing.

I’d rather my players have fun and play football, by no means (because I’m sure there will be no naunce applied to this) do I mean take the piss, but go out and enjoy your football, have fun and win the game.
 
Smores said:
I was thinking the other day Lingard of the past would have slot into this team quite nicely. His movement into the box was always very good.

That said he was and is the wrong type of character. You don't end up fading away as he has done if you're a serious determined professional.
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A lot of footballers fade away with nothing to do with being a determined professional. Dele Ali for example was the golden boy of the English national team at one time.
Lingard was another who suffered from depression and personal circumstances of his family. Throw social media on top and the toxicity that brings. Yes he could have come off it and kept his head down but he was a young lad playing football.
 
UnitedSofa said:
This is the mindset of a lot of football fans, take one thing and understand it as if x = y and there are no grey areas or nuances in life.

In life there are lots of nuances and not everything is literally black and white.

Having fun does not mean he doesn’t take his job seriously, wouldn’t you be having fun at every available moment that you can?

You act as if playing for Man Utd should be 100% intensive and 100% laser focused at all moments and if you aren’t, you’re a waster who doesn’t deserve to be there.

Life doesn’t work like that, if you do live like that you’ll be very unhappy and not able to enjoy what you do have because you’re always looking for the next thing.

I’d rather my players have fun and play football, by no means (because I’m sure there will be no naunce applied to this) do I mean take the piss, but go out and enjoy your football, have fun and win the game.
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Off course I love to have fun, but to me winning is fun in competition.. so that's my mindset. If I'm not winning, I'm not having fun. But I'd do my best to try and win and afterwards if we didn't win I'd be pissed off and try to work hard to not make that happen again, not dance or act like a child who won the "be a MU player for a day" lottery.
 
golden_blunder said:
Sure, consistency. And I’m not gonna argue that we should have kept him. I’m glad that he got out when he did.

I just think it’s over the top abuse he gets. For what? Doing silly little dances.
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You seem to really like Lingard, but I just don't think he ever had it, and lots of fans picked up on that.

He wasn't particularly professional, nor does it appear that he's actually that driven.

Whatever gifts he had/has as a footballer were shown incredibly infrequently.

He does get a lot of over the top stick, but he's not the only player/ex-player to do so. We've just got a lot of shit fans.

UnitedSofa said:
This is the mindset of a lot of football fans, take one thing and understand it as if x = y and there are no grey areas or nuances in life.

In life there are lots of nuances and not everything is literally black and white.

Having fun does not mean he doesn’t take his job seriously, wouldn’t you be having fun at every available moment that you can?

You act as if playing for Man Utd should be 100% intensive and 100% laser focused at all moments and if you aren’t, you’re a waster who doesn’t deserve to be there.

Life doesn’t work like that, if you do live like that you’ll be very unhappy and not able to enjoy what you do have because you’re always looking for the next thing.

I’d rather my players have fun and play football, by no means (because I’m sure there will be no naunce applied to this) do I mean take the piss, but go out and enjoy your football, have fun and win the game.
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For a lot, Lingard did take the piss though. He wasn't an Anderson-type acting a bit of a clown during title celebrations, he was just generally letting everyone know he was a muppet during some pretty bleak seasons by constantly broadcasting it on social media. The "JLingz" brand stuff certainly didn't help either.
 
Scandi Red said:
Off-pitch clownery aside, Lingard never struck me as lazy or inconsistent in the same manner as Pogba, Rashford and Sancho. He always made an effort and it's (ironically) lazy to lump him in with the rest of them.
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18 months without a goal/assist i believe. Left for Forest and ended up on the bench there. Trademarked a goal celebration for a player who bareley scores
 
Alex99 said:
Lingard was a limited footballer who became way too important to the side because of a failure to properly invest in the squad.

Under Fergie he'd have had a season or two in and around the first team, maybe hit double figures for appearances once, then been sent packing to a mid-table side.
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This is it exactly. How we used to be. Bring in a young player from the academy. Mix them with the first team, then off they went for a profit. Unless they were good enough. Fantastic strategy in so many ways.
It was Woodward and his "philosophy" of we can buy anyone that destroyed everything we have been about. And retaining players for value at wages that make zero sense. Glazers didn't help either.
 
It was always a stupid narrative.

A bigger factor in what killed our culture for me was average players overstaying here by doing the bare minimum.

Under SAF players like Becks, RVN, Stam, Butt, Kanchelskis, Cole and many others were sold when they still had something to offer. These were winners but SAF didn’t care about sentiment save for a few players. He always knew the squad needed to be kept on its toes.

Since he’s left the number of players that have overstayed their welcome by at least 3 seasons is incredible.

Valencia
Young
Shaw
Phil Jones
Lindelof
Maguire
Rashford
Mctominay
Fred
Martial
Mata
DDG
Bailly

All of these players should have been sold a lot sooner. Some even got new contracts after being past their best. This is what killed the club more than anything, the complacency and keeping average players in the squad for many years.

I think it’s absolutely crazy that Shaw is in his 11th season here and that Lindelof is in his 8th. That’s as many or more than any of the players under SAF in my first paragraph.
 
Ed Woodward destroyed the culture of this club. Not sure if I’d lump the Glazers in there - I think they were just clueless and left it all to Woodward to run. The moment Ed took over, we became directionless, visionless on the field and were more interested in commercial ventures then being successful on the field. Statements like “Disneyland” and “we can do things others can only dream of in the transfer market” basically summed up why the culture eroded. Not the players that came afterwards. They were just a symptom of the deep rot that set in, that came right from the top.
 
Alex99 said:
You seem to really like Lingard, but I just don't think he ever had it, and lots of fans picked up on that.

He wasn't particularly professional, nor does it appear that he's actually that driven.

Whatever gifts he had/has as a footballer were shown incredibly infrequently.

He does get a lot of over the top stick, but he's not the only player/ex-player to do so. We've just got a lot of shit fans.



For a lot, Lingard did take the piss though. He wasn't an Anderson-type acting a bit of a clown during title celebrations, he was just generally letting everyone know he was a muppet during some pretty bleak seasons by constantly broadcasting it on social media. The "JLingz" brand stuff certainly didn't help either.
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I have nothing against him and I find it silly to dislike someone because you don’t like the dance he does (not you personally). As evidenced by this thread. I’d argue that not liking someone doing a dance is more immature than actually doing a dance
 
Ish said:
Ed Woodward destroyed the culture of this club. Not sure if I’d lump the Glazers in there - I think they were just clueless and left it all to Woodward to run. The moment Ed took over, we became directionless, visionless on the field and were more interested in commercial ventures then being successful on the field. Statements like “Disneyland” and “we can do things others can only dream of in the transfer market” basically summed up why the culture eroded. Not the players that came afterwards. They were just a symptom of the deep rot that set in, that came right from the top.
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Woodward, Joel Glazer and Matt Judge are pretty much the sole 3 responsible for establishing player power culture and for ruining our wage structure.
 
El Jefe said:
It was always a stupid narrative.

A bigger factor in what killed our culture for me was average players overstaying here by doing the bare minimum.

Under SAF players like Becks, RVN, Stam, Butt, Kanchelskis, Cole and many others were sold when they still had something to offer. These were winners but SAF didn’t care about sentiment save for a few players. He always knew the squad needed to be kept on its toes.

Since he’s left the number of players that have overstayed their welcome by at least 3 seasons is incredible.

Valencia
Young
Shaw
Phil Jones
Lindelof
Maguire
Rashford
Mctominay
Fred
Martial
Mata
DDG
Bailly

All of these players should have been sold a lot sooner. Some even got new contracts after being past their best. This is what killed the club more than anything, the complacency and keeping average players in the squad for many years.

I think it’s absolutely crazy that Shaw is in his 11th season here and that Lindelof is in his 8th. That’s as many or more than any of the players under SAF in my first paragraph.
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Spot on.
 
AB_89 said:
I think Lingard gets a bad rap for putting himself in the public eye and being part of a lacklustre United side. However, as a footballer he always gave his all. He had decent technique, could run for days, good movement off the ball and scored some important goals in cup finals. He was a solid squad player pushing for starts, nothing more and nothing less.
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He pissed over the likes of Donny to be fair.

Moved from Lingard to Donny to Sabitzer to Mount, they are all very similar players in the role they are best in, Lingard was comfortably the best of them in what he showed for the club.

That half season at West Ham he was one of the form players in the country, wonder if he looks back on that and thinks what might have been, was it just a spurt of form or did he play with an intensity that was lacking previously, something to prove?
 
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