[Verminator]

I was a big critic of Lingard last season and still don't think he is good enough to be here, but I was happy to give him credit when he played well. Last night he wasn't good though, and unfortunately it was a familiar problem of Jesse's in that he goes missing in key games. Got to take the rough with the smooth. Unfortunately it is generally rough with Lingard and i'm just hoping he comes good this season, I really do, As he looks like he is going to be a starter and we need more than 1 goal and a few assists from one of our main attacking outlets or we can forget Top 4.

Like cup finals?

 

[villain]

I was a big critic of Lingard last season and still don't think he is good enough to be here, but I was happy to give him credit when he played well. Last night he wasn't good though, and unfortunately it was a familiar problem of Jesse's in that he goes missing in key games. Got to take the rough with the smooth. Unfortunately it is generally rough with Lingard and i'm just hoping he comes good this season, I really do, As he looks like he is going to be a starter and we need more than 1 goal and a few assists from one of our main attacking outlets or we can forget Top 4.

I haven't watched the game from last night, but from what I can see most players didn't play well enough, especially in midfield with only Pogba being the stand out player? Plus it's Barcelona, we're not there yet.

I could be wrong, but I don't see that as reason to single Lingard out specifically, if that's the case.

Personally I'm more disappointed in the likes of Martial because he's capable of doing the spectacular but more often than not, doesn't. That's why I think Jose picks Lingard & Rashford over him.
I'd prefer a player who is limited by his ability but doesn't let his effort or work rate drop, than a player who has unlimited ability and sulks when things don't go his way.

 

[jking948]

@Santoryo, @Paul the Wolf, @Ninja7Red
You all make very good point and I agree for some part, but let's look flip side.
Tell me why you think Lingard play more or as much game as Martial or Mikhi? We all know both Martial and Mikhi are better player than him and I am sure Jose also know.
So why you think he play as much game as Martial and Mikhi?

This is the point. Jose Mourinho knows more about football than literally every member of this forum. He has more experience playing it, managing it, and appreciating it than anybody who posts here. So, maybe instead of complaining, we think about why Mourinho chooses to play Lingard?

To me, Martial supposedly does one thing at an elite level: score. He is mediocre everywhere else on the pitch; and frankly, his scoring leaves a lot to be desired. He generally aims too high in an effort to get past the keeper's shoulder, this results in goal kicks. Further, a lot of times he over-dribbles and misses out on good shot opportunities.

Thus, while Martial is still technically a better scorer than Lingard, maybe it is because Lingard does other things more consistently?



Lingard is outstanding at recycling the ball, he does not take shots that he shouldn't, he is a great dribbler, plays well in hold-up (important for when Mourinho wants to park the bus), is a great pivot for Pogba (see the play with Martial against Real Madrid), and he does not turn the ball over.

Lingard maintains possession, ensures an attack continues forward, can play on either side or up the middle, and brings great energy. I really do not understand all the frustration.

 

[bubbles_]

I think he's great. I can't really place why, apart from his great movement. He's everywhere though. Endless fecking energy and he's been one of the highlights of this tour. Long live Jesse Lingard.

 

[Nick7]

I don't think he is saying all 5 of them are starters. Mkhi and Martial were not named in the squad for multiple weeks last season whereas Lingard was. They were being dropped due to them putting in poor performances which was not applying to Lingard for some reason as he was being named in the XI or squad after doing the same.

People have a problem with treatment being given to Lingard, all of our attackers had better productivity than Lingard last season and it was not due to the fact they played more minutes than him. Lingards stats don't match up with our other attackers in wide areas and yet he has started all 5 of our preseason games this summer. It doesn't bode well for us, we need more quality that is why I'm in favor of signing Perisic even if Inter are demanding £48 million.

So how is Lingard a starter and others aren't if he has the joint least starts among the 5? A more trusted squad player, sure.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Like cup finals?

See, This is the only thing Lingard defenders have to cling on to life to, and boy do they make sure they do that. Yes, he scored important goals in the finals and I was very happy he did. But please enlighten me and tell me what good games he has had against Top 4 sides? I'd say 1 against Chelsea when the whole team played well.....

In fact, Don't. Most people without rose tinted glasses on know he hasn't been anywhere near good enough, so let's just hope he plays as good this season as he has done against the MLS sides in pre-season.

 

[limerickcitykid]

He contributed 1 goal and 2 assists. That is horrendous stats. So i'd argue he is a huge problem. But hey, Let's just hope he does better this season.

He got 5 goals and 3 assists in all comps. It isn't very good but there is more to offer than directly scoring or assisting which clearly Mourinho thinks. Despite him not directly scoring much we still score more with him on the pitch than without so he isn't hampering our attack and is offering something to the team without having to directly score which still helps our attack.

 

[Adisa]

When last did we buy a player who's best position is on the right?
It's the only reason he starts games.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I haven't watched the game from last night, but from what I can see most players didn't play well enough, especially in midfield with only Pogba being the stand out player? Plus it's Barcelona, we're not there yet.

I could be wrong, but I don't see that as reason to single Lingard out specifically, if that's the case.

Personally I'm more disappointed in the likes of Martial because he's capable of doing the spectacular but more often than not, doesn't. That's why I think Jose picks Lingard & Rashford over him.
I'd prefer a player who is limited by his ability but doesn't let his effort or work rate drop, than a player who has unlimited ability and sulks when things don't go his way.

To be fair, apart from Pogba and De Gea pretty much everyone else was quite poor, So i'm not saying Lingard was terrible or going overboard. The reason for concern is that a familiar issue re-occured with Lingard which unfortunately we have seen before far too many times. But hey, same as Fellaini, Carrick and Blind whose limitations were also exposed.

I just want Lingard to take a game by the scruff of the neck and impose himself a bit more. Whether that's a goal or a key assist (like the West Brom game for example).

 

[Verminator]

See, This is the only thing Lingard defenders have to cling on to life to, and boy do they make sure they do that. Yes, he scored important goals in the finals and I was very happy he did. But please enlighten me and tell me what good games he has had against Top 4 sides? I'd say 1 against Chelsea when the whole team played well.....

In fact, Don't. Most people without rose tinted glasses on know he hasn't been anywhere near good enough, so let's just hope he plays as good this season as he has done against the MLS sides in pre-season.

Why are you acting the arse?
You said he goes missing in key games. That is what I responded to.
Unless you did that to provoke that response, with the aim of replying how you did, I don't understand your incredulity.

 

[Nighteyes]

Despite him not directly scoring much we still score more with him on the pitch than without so he isn't hampering our attack and is offering something to the team without having to directly score which still helps our attack.

I'm sorry but bringing up such stats is pointless. For how many of those goals was Lingard even involved? It's utterly ludicrous.

 

[Nighteyes]

When last did we buy a player who's best position is on the right?
It's the only reason he starts games.

His best position is on the left or through the middle.

 

[edcunited1878]

Plain and simple, his goals and assist output must improve in order for United to be anywhere near the top if he's going to play as a starter or come on from the bench. He's solidified his selection in the squad but he needs to increase his output just like Mkhitaryan, Martial and Rashford in the league.

 

[villain]

To be fair, apart from Pogba and De Gea pretty much everyone else was quite poor, So i'm not saying Lingard was terrible or going overboard. The reason for concern is that a familiar issue re-occured with Lingard which unfortunately we have seen before far too many times. But hey, same as Fellaini, Carrick and Blind whose limitations were also exposed.

I just want Lingard to take a game by the scruff of the neck and impose himself a bit more. Whether that's a goal or a key assist (like the West Brom game for example).

I can see that, I don't think that's his role in the squad though - so maybe your expectations will always fall short?
Out of all of our great teams in the past how many were really capable of taking the game by the scruff of the neck individually? Rooney, Ronaldo, RVP all come to mind of recent history, outside of that I don't think we have had too many people like that in years.
Martial did it a few times in LVG's second season, Rashford too, but they're not consistent either. Pogba has the ability but he hasn't shown it yet in a competitive match.
I just don't think it's Lingard's place to do that.

I think Jose seems him as the link between defence & the last line of attack, he's there to pull defenders out of position and stretch play to open up space for the likes of Mhiki, Lukaku, Rashford (those who will take the game by its neck) etc to attack.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I'm sorry but bringing up such stats is pointless. For how many of those goals was Lingard even involved? It's utterly ludicrous.

It isn't pointless at all because it proves that those who claim he ruins our attack are wrong. If Jesse's low direct output was so detrimental and harming the team then it would be impacting the team's scoring, of which it doesn't. What's ludicrous is thinking you have to be directly involved in scoring or assisting to be offering something to the team. Something which Mourinho obviously doesn't believe and why he is more than happy to play Lingard.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Is that not the point though?
Why feel the need to refute anything, when you have made your thoughts clear on numerous occasions?
What do you think you are achieving?

It is a performance thread. People should express their opinions on the last game, but these threads turn into a Groundhog Day experience, of stats and opinion over a player's career here.
It isn't a performance thread at all.
Maybe we need a "Why I don't like Lingard" thread, to take the vitriol and counter-extreme praise from this one.

I only came in here again to refute the rubbish spouted by his defenders and on and on it goes, still more rubbish continues to be spouted, so that means that his defenders can say anything they like (which is nothing to do with his last game ) but no-one is allowed to dispute what they are saying.

If you want an opinion on his last game against Barcelona, it was a typical Lingard performance, running about aimlessly, taking up wrong positions and contributing next to nothing, happy?

 

[Verminator]

I only came in here again to refute the rubbish spouted by his defenders and on and on it goes, still more rubbish continues to be spouted, so that means that his defenders can say anything they like (which is nothing to do with his last game ) but no-one is allowed to dispute what they are saying.

If you want an opinion on his last game against Barcelona, it was a typical Lingard performance, running about aimlessly, taking up wrong positions and contributing next to nothing, happy?

I have given up repeating myself on Lingard's positives.
People defend him against generalisations like your's (typical Lingard) with their own generalisations, and round and round we go again.

He had me shouting at the tv last night, with some of his mistakes, so I don't think he played well (though he was in the better half of the performers).

Until there is a better alternative he will play.
I'm more worried about Mhiki, who was bought to bench him, back when £28m was a lot of money.

 

[Nighteyes]

It isn't pointless at all because it proves that those who claim he ruins our attack are wrong. If Jesse's low direct output was so detrimental and harming the team then it would be impacting the team's scoring, of which it doesn't. What's ludicrous is thinking you have to be directly involved in scoring or assisting to be offering something to the team. Something which Mourinho obviously doesn't believe and why he is more than happy to play Lingard.

Nope. It's a completely meaningless stat which takes into account no context which is vital for for such vague stats. How many of those goals that we scored where Lingard was on the pitch actually involved him at all? Technically, he was on the pitch when we scored at OT in the derby. We didn't score after he was subbed off. So even though he was absolutely terrible and 2nd worst player on the pitch, the fact that goal we scored had feck all to with Lingard and the fact that we played a lot better in the 2nd half you're putting this own in the positive column for Lingard.

As a squad player he's fine. As a regular starter he's just taking the place of more talented and more importantly more productive players.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I have given up repeating myself on Lingard's positives.
People defend him against generalisations like your's (typical Lingard) with their own generalisations, and round and round we go again.

He had me shouting at the tv last night, with some of his mistakes, so I don't think he played well (though he was in the better half of the performers).

Until there is a better alternative he will play.
I'm more worried about Mhiki, who was bought to bench him, back when £28m was a lot of money.

But that's the whole point, it is typical, 9 out of 10 of his performances are like last night, week in week out but he still starts. Mkhi has had some poor games and he was poor last night but Mkhi would be dropped immediately whereas Lingard will be given several more chances.
Lingard played quite well against LA Galaxy but when will be the next time.
Hope that Mkhi in his second season will be better but he still contributed far more than Lingard did last season.

I don't care which players perform for United but they have to and not given special dispensation because they are a local lad or an academy product.
If they play for United they have to perform whoever they are , whether they cost nothing or £100million.

 

[Home&Away]

I was a big critic of Lingard last season and still don't think he is good enough to be here, but I was happy to give him credit when he played well. Last night he wasn't good though, and unfortunately it was a familiar problem of Jesse's in that he goes missing in key games. Got to take the rough with the smooth. Unfortunately it is generally rough with Lingard and i'm just hoping he comes good this season, I really do, As he looks like he is going to be a starter and we need more than 1 goal and a few assists from one of our main attacking outlets or we can forget Top 4.

Did I miss something yesterday? Was it a friendly or a cup?

 

[devips]

This is the point. Jose Mourinho knows more about football than literally every member of this forum. He has more experience playing it, managing it, and appreciating it than anybody who posts here. So, maybe instead of complaining, we think about why Mourinho chooses to play Lingard?

To me, Martial supposedly does one thing at an elite level: score. He is mediocre everywhere else on the pitch; and frankly, his scoring leaves a lot to be desired. He generally aims too high in an effort to get past the keeper's shoulder, this results in goal kicks. Further, a lot of times he over-dribbles and misses out on good shot opportunities.

Thus, while Martial is still technically a better scorer than Lingard, maybe it is because Lingard does other things more consistently?



Lingard is outstanding at recycling the ball, he does not take shots that he shouldn't, he is a great dribbler, plays well in hold-up (important for when Mourinho wants to park the bus), is a great pivot for Pogba (see the play with Martial against Real Madrid), and he does not turn the ball over.

Lingard maintains possession, ensures an attack continues forward, can play on either side or up the middle, and brings great energy. I really do not understand all the frustration.

Great post. Spot on.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

This is the point. Jose Mourinho knows more about football than literally every member of this forum. He has more experience playing it, managing it, and appreciating it than anybody who posts here. So, maybe instead of complaining, we think about why Mourinho chooses to play Lingard?

To me, Martial supposedly does one thing at an elite level: score. He is mediocre everywhere else on the pitch; and frankly, his scoring leaves a lot to be desired. He generally aims too high in an effort to get past the keeper's shoulder, this results in goal kicks. Further, a lot of times he over-dribbles and misses out on good shot opportunities.

Thus, while Martial is still technically a better scorer than Lingard, maybe it is because Lingard does other things more consistently?



Lingard is outstanding at recycling the ball, he does not take shots that he shouldn't, he is a great dribbler, plays well in hold-up (important for when Mourinho wants to park the bus), is a great pivot for Pogba (see the play with Martial against Real Madrid), and he does not turn the ball over.

Lingard maintains possession, ensures an attack continues forward, can play on either side or up the middle, and brings great energy. I really do not understand all the frustration.

@verminater - see what I mean

 

[J-Stander]

This is the point. Jose Mourinho knows more about football than literally every member of this forum. He has more experience playing it, managing it, and appreciating it than anybody who posts here. So, maybe instead of complaining, we think about why Mourinho chooses to play Lingard?

To me, Martial supposedly does one thing at an elite level: score. He is mediocre everywhere else on the pitch; and frankly, his scoring leaves a lot to be desired. He generally aims too high in an effort to get past the keeper's shoulder, this results in goal kicks. Further, a lot of times he over-dribbles and misses out on good shot opportunities.

Thus, while Martial is still technically a better scorer than Lingard, maybe it is because Lingard does other things more consistently?



Lingard is outstanding at recycling the ball, he does not take shots that he shouldn't, he is a great dribbler, plays well in hold-up (important for when Mourinho wants to park the bus), is a great pivot for Pogba (see the play with Martial against Real Madrid), and he does not turn the ball over.

Lingard maintains possession, ensures an attack continues forward, can play on either side or up the middle, and brings great energy. I really do not understand all the frustration.

You missed out the simple fact that he's not very good at football.

 

[redsunited]

When last did we buy a player who's best position is on the right?
It's the only reason he starts games.

This. 2009 Antonio Valencia
Had he not been sold, Nani would still be the best right winger in United.

 

[Verminator]

@Paul the Wolf see what I mean?

You missed out the simple fact that he's not very good at football.

And around we go again.
I hope you can admit that when Lingard is not playing well, he is still more use than Mhiki when he disappears completely? Same with Martial, which is why Jose picks him.
His highs may not be as high, but his lows are nowhere near as bad. (Except once against City, but again Mhiki out stunk him.)

 

[Paul the Wolf]

@Paul the Wolf see what I mean?

And around we go again.
I hope you can admit that when Lingard is not playing well, he is still more use than Mhiki when he disappears completely? Same with Martial, which is why Jose picks him.
His highs may not be as high, but his lows are nowhere near as bad. (Except once against City, but again Mhiki out stunk him.)

We go round again because I totally disagree with you, we may as well play with 10 men in the poor games Lingard plays ie 90% - 90% of Mkhi's games aren't poor and even the City match Lingard was even more atrocious than Mkhi against City only matched by Taibi's performance some years ago.

Referring to that post I quoted, in which world is Lingard outstanding at anything, it's beyond believable that people can possible think that way about such a crap player. I've said it before but of all the hundreds of players I've seen play for United no-one who is this poor has managed to con a manager into playing him so much.

 

[stevoc]

This is the point. Jose Mourinho knows more about football than literally every member of this forum. He has more experience playing it, managing it, and appreciating it than anybody who posts here. So, maybe instead of complaining, we think about why Mourinho chooses to play Lingard?

To me, Martial supposedly does one thing at an elite level: score. He is mediocre everywhere else on the pitch; and frankly, his scoring leaves a lot to be desired. He generally aims too high in an effort to get past the keeper's shoulder, this results in goal kicks. Further, a lot of times he over-dribbles and misses out on good shot opportunities.

Thus, while Martial is still technically a better scorer than Lingard, maybe it is because Lingard does other things more consistently?



Lingard is outstanding at recycling the ball, he does not take shots that he shouldn't, he is a great dribbler, plays well in hold-up (important for when Mourinho wants to park the bus), is a great pivot for Pogba (see the play with Martial against Real Madrid), and he does not turn the ball over.

Lingard maintains possession, ensures an attack continues forward, can play on either side or up the middle, and brings great energy. I really do not understand all the frustration.

Sometimes he has a good dribble but i wouldn't call him a good dribbler let alone a great one. Giggs was a great dribbler. Sometimes his hold-up play is good but more often than not he loses possession a lot.

That video gives a great summary of things that Lingard is good at sometimes, but not on nearly a consistent enough basis.

Lingard's biggest problem is he isn't a winger he would be much better centrally. But he isn't good enough to play there for us, if he played for another club regularly in the middle he would be able to display his best qualities on a much more consistent basis.

 

[Verminator]

@Paul the Wolf as I said earlier, I've done all possible permutations of this discussion. I'm not getting drawn in again.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Why are you acting the arse?
You said he goes missing in key games. That is what I responded to.
Unless you did that to provoke that response, with the aim of replying how you did, I don't understand your incredulity.

I apologise if it came across as being arsey mate, I definitely wasn't. I was saying it in the context of this season is a fresh start for Lingard and I have hundreds of posts (well it feels like it anyways) talking about Lingards poor season last year and feel like a stuck record. I'm hoping for the best for this season. We need him to deliver more than ever.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I can see that, I don't think that's his role in the squad though - so maybe your expectations will always fall short?
Out of all of our great teams in the past how many were really capable of taking the game by the scruff of the neck individually? Rooney, Ronaldo, RVP all come to mind of recent history, outside of that I don't think we have had too many people like that in years.
Martial did it a few times in LVG's second season, Rashford too, but they're not consistent either. Pogba has the ability but he hasn't shown it yet in a competitive match.
I just don't think it's Lingard's place to do that.

I think Jose seems him as the link between defence & the last line of attack, he's there to pull defenders out of position and stretch play to open up space for the likes of Mhiki, Lukaku, Rashford (those who will take the game by its neck) etc to attack.

You make some points and I get what you are saying. But for me if you are playing as an attacker for Manchester United, a club built on attacking foundations, then you have to deliver offensively. Whether that is goals or assists. I'm under no illusions, Lingard isn't a Ronaldo, in fact not even a Nani. But he has to deliver more for us when the chips are down, and that is how we will finish higher in the league. If this season goes in a similar fashion to last in which Lingard is starting so many games and not getting goals or assists then we will be nowhere near winning the league IMO.

 

[villain]

You make some points and I get what you are saying. But for me if you are playing as an attacker for Manchester United, a club built on attacking foundations, then you have to deliver offensively. Whether that is goals or assists. I'm under no illusions, Lingard isn't a Ronaldo, in fact not even a Nani. But he has to deliver more for us when the chips are down, and that is how we will finish higher in the league. If this season goes in a similar fashion to last in which Lingard is starting so many games and not getting goals or assists then we will be nowhere near winning the league IMO.

That's fair, I'd definitely love to see Lingard do big numbers particularly in the league this season - all of our attacking players need better numbers if we're to challenge for the title
I have confidence that he will do better though, I think he has adapted to Mourinho's way of playing more quickly than most, and that will put him in a good position. I just want us to get a defensive midfielder so we can play a 2-man midfield and have 3 players behind Lukaku who are comfortable rotating positions and floating in and out of space. That link up play, one touch football is where the likes of Mata, Mhiki, Lingard & Martial do well in.
Right now they'e being asked to do more defensive work than they should be doing which is making our entire play more disjointed.

One thing I like about Lingard is that he's fearless, and that's a quality that you either have or you don't - and it's so underrated especially when you play for a club our size. He has the heart and mental strength to play for United, probably because he joined so young, but he doesn't let any challenge intimidate him.
We need more players like that, if every player had the confidence of a Pogba, Ibra, Lingard or a Bailly we would have won the title already.
I like Smalling a lot, my favourite defender, but he's too meek sometimes. Same with Shaw, Martial & Mhiki, they're too meek. If all 4 of those players had the confidence that Lingard has, they wouldn't divide opinions like they do now, and we would have finished at least second last season.

We need more players who play with their chest puffed out, or play with some swagger, looking & acting like a champion is half of it, there's a psychological advantage at play when you have belief & confidence in yourself, I think that's what Mourinho is trying to instil into Shaw, Martial & Mhiki, it's what he has benefited from his whole career so he knows it works - and Lingard has that, thats why he'll continue to play.

 

[jking948]

Sometimes he has a good dribble but i wouldn't call him a good dribbler let alone a great one. Giggs was a great dribbler. Sometimes his hold-up play is good but more often than not he loses possession a lot.

He completed 87.9% of his passes this year, was only disposed .9 times per match, per WhoScored. WhoScored also notes his strengths are passing (especially short passes and through balls) and holding onto the ball. Perhaps he is not a great dribbler. That was an overstatement on my part. But I would say "good" is a fair statement. Statistically, he doesn't lose possession a lot.

That video gives a great summary of things that Lingard is good at sometimes, but not on nearly a consistent enough basis.

Sure, Lingard is not a perfect player. Nobody said he was. But he is a good dribbler, he takes control of the ball, is good at hold-up play, plays with energy, etc.

Lingard's biggest problem is he isn't a winger he would be much better centrally. But he isn't good enough to play there for us, if he played for another club regularly in the middle he would be able to display his best qualities on a much more consistent basis.

-He played on the attacking right midfield eleven times last season with an average rating of 6.93.
-He played as a right wing in the 4-3-3 seven times with an average rating of 6.65 (by far his lowest).
-He played as an attacking left midfielder three times with an average rating of 7.01 (his highest).
-He played as a left wing in the 4-3-3 two times with an average rating of 6.85.
-And he played once as a striker, with a rating of 6.58.

His season rating on the attacking right midfield wing was higher than Mkhitaryan and Marcus Rashford.

His season rating on the attacking left midfield wing was higher than Martial, Ashley Young, and tied with Rashford.

He is clearly worse in the 4-3-3. He gets worse the closer up the pitch he plays. He is good as an attacking midfield player in the 4-2-3-1, whether on the wing or up centrally, arguably better and more versatile than any of our other options.

I see literally zero evidence why he is worse as a winger than our other options in the 4-2-3-1, 4-2-2, or 3-5-2. He is not as dynamic of an offensive player, but he does the little things much better.

 

[Footyislife]

For all the Lingard haters, you only have to look at Park Ji Sung and his role. Every squad needs a workhorse. Now I don't think people dislike Lingard (local lad, works hard etc.) but rather how he's being used:

Park Ji Sung was deployed strategically to great effect and surrounded by the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Nani, and Giggs. Lingard isn't surrounded by similar quality. He's deployed as one of the 3 forwards in a defensive minded team. When that forward only manages to secure 1 goal and 2 assists in 20 games it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why we are in 6th place. His final ball, touch, and finish in tough pressure situations are lacking 9/10 times. If you watch the Real Madrid game he didn't contribute to 1 quality chance besides getting the ball fed to him for a sitter any of us could have scored.

Mourinho knows far more than we do about coaching and football. But the game of football is unpredictable and complex. Managers get paid to make educated guesses on what will happen. Doesn't mean they are always right. The tactics video said Lingard is used to recycle possession, get ball movement, press etc. But if we have the likes of Ander, Pogba, and Mkhi playing, and they can do all those things well, it begs the question why you'd sacrifice one of your forwards to do the same thing? The crux of the issue here is Mourinho creates defensive stability, but sacrifices attacking creativity and spacing. Then he blames his players for the lack of goals.

When you play a defensive forward like Lingard, he can't really beat the FB 1v1 and tends to roam inwards leaving Valencia the as a wingback. It creates an overload on the left side of the pitch, but plenty of space on the right. Now if Valencia was Messi, that would be great. But Valencia is only mediocre going forward. Instead, our best creative wide player (Martial/Rashford) on the left wing is probably going to face a double team and compressed pitch. What's even worse is that Mourinho doesn't let the LB commit forward to the byline for defensive stability since he allows Valencia to do so on the right. And that LB can't cross either. So now unless your LW is Ronaldo, Neymar, Messi, Sanchez, Bale, or Hazard they aren't going to do too well in those circumstances.

You want your best creative players (Pogba, Martial, Mkhi, Rashford) to be placed in 1v1 situations. Our team is not built for that, instead, its built to create space for Valencia and Lingard. None of us have Mourinho's knowledge or pedigree, but we can all spot the issue behind our blunt attack. If you don't have the best forwards and need it for your tactics you go buy them. If you can't buy them, then you adapt and build the team around creating advantageous matchups for your key creative players. Mourinho focuses far too much on neutralizing opponents with the players he currently has. 0% chance to win the PL with Lingard as our starting forward.

 

[Viral United]

On footballing ability the other 4 are clearly streets ahead of Lingard and all 4 can produce a moment of inspiration at any time - if Lingard starts as many games this coming season we have a problem.
Was hoping last season it was to gee up the others in Jose's style of management and his first year getting to know the players - am worried that as Lingard has started all 5 of the pre-season matches, last season's trend may continue.

You are right, Lingard should used as squad player and if he started more game we are in trouble.
But we are not trouble because Lingard but because our supposed starter players has shit season again and we can't rely on them.

 

[Viral United]

This is the point. Jose Mourinho knows more about football than literally every member of this forum. He has more experience playing it, managing it, and appreciating it than anybody who posts here. So, maybe instead of complaining, we think about why Mourinho chooses to play Lingard?

To me, Martial supposedly does one thing at an elite level: score. He is mediocre everywhere else on the pitch; and frankly, his scoring leaves a lot to be desired. He generally aims too high in an effort to get past the keeper's shoulder, this results in goal kicks. Further, a lot of times he over-dribbles and misses out on good shot opportunities.

Thus, while Martial is still technically a better scorer than Lingard, maybe it is because Lingard does other things more consistently?



Lingard is outstanding at recycling the ball, he does not take shots that he shouldn't, he is a great dribbler, plays well in hold-up (important for when Mourinho wants to park the bus), is a great pivot for Pogba (see the play with Martial against Real Madrid), and he does not turn the ball over.

Lingard maintains possession, ensures an attack continues forward, can play on either side or up the middle, and brings great energy. I really do not understand all the frustration.

Good post.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

He completed 87.9% of his passes this year, was only disposed .9 times per match, per WhoScored. WhoScored also notes his strengths are passing (especially short passes and through balls) and holding onto the ball. Perhaps he is not a great dribbler. That was an overstatement on my part. But I would say "good" is a fair statement. Statistically, he doesn't lose possession a lot.



Sure, Lingard is not a perfect player. Nobody said he was. But he is a good dribbler, he takes control of the ball, is good at hold-up play, plays with energy, etc.



-He played on the attacking right midfield eleven times last season with an average rating of 6.93.
-He played as a right wing in the 4-3-3 seven times with an average rating of 6.65 (by far his lowest).
-He played as an attacking left midfielder three times with an average rating of 7.01 (his highest).
-He played as a left wing in the 4-3-3 two times with an average rating of 6.85.
-And he played once as a striker, with a rating of 6.58.

His season rating on the attacking right midfield wing was higher than Mkhitaryan and Marcus Rashford.

His season rating on the attacking left midfield wing was higher than Martial, Ashley Young, and tied with Rashford.

He is clearly worse in the 4-3-3. He gets worse the closer up the pitch he plays. He is good as an attacking midfield player in the 4-2-3-1, whether on the wing or up centrally, arguably better and more versatile than any of our other options.

I see literally zero evidence why he is worse as a winger than our other options in the 4-2-3-1, 4-2-2, or 3-5-2. He is not as dynamic of an offensive player, but he does the little things much better.

WhoScored isn't the basis for everything you know. It can be quite easy to manipulate stats when you keep passes simple etc. And the match ratings, who's ratings is that based on and why is that being taken as gospel when majority of United fans seen he was rubbish last season?

 

[Ubermensch]

I don't understand people saying the issue is mhiki and martial failing to wrestle playing time away from lingard as this seems to shoot the 'he's a good squad player' defence.

Good squad players are supposed to step up,contribute, make you forget that the big names aren't shining. The issue is I haven't seen that from Lingard, so does he still deserve that title? To reiterate, our level of squad player should be 14 goals son, willian, sterling,coman, asensio. In fact, I'd argue mata is the ultimate level of squad player we need.

 

[Ole90+3]

Lingard is outstanding at recycling the ball, he does not take shots that he shouldn't, he is a great dribbler, plays well in hold-up (important for when Mourinho wants to park the bus), is a great pivot for Pogba (see the play with Martial against Real Madrid), and he does not turn the ball over.

Lingard maintains possession, ensures an attack continues forward, can play on either side or up the middle, and brings great energy. I really do not understand all the frustration.

These points are just plain wrong. If Lingard is a great dribbler then he doesn't express it anywhere near enough. He very rarely takes on his man; this is either down to a lack of confidence (which you clearly feel the opposite of) or he's just not that good a dribbler.

Lingard is a big culprit of dilly dallying on the ball when there are options in front of him, to the point of those options then becoming unavailable and forcing a sideward/backward pass.

 

[Mcking]

The problem is not Lingard. We all agree he is not a very good footballer and shouldn't be starting for us, but he plays to his strength almost on a consistent basis. The problem is the players(Martial, Mkhi) who are supposed to be the starters are yet to show any form of consistency or ability to displace him. Sheer talent alone shouldn't make Martial start over Lingard; it will unfair to the Lingard. Unless Martial shows consistency to match his talents, then Lingard will keep starting.

 

[Siorac]

The problem is not Lingard. We all agree he is not a very good footballer and shouldn't be starting for us, but he plays to his strength almost on a consistent basis. The problem is the players(Martial, Mkhi) who are supposed to be the starters are yet to show any form of consistency or ability to displace him. Sheer talent alone shouldn't make Martial start over Lingard; it will unfair to the Lingard. Unless Martial shows consistency to match his talents, then Lingard will keep starting.

Why though? Martial and Mkhitaryan are far, far more productive than Lingard. You can argue, yes, that Lingard makes the most of his ability on a more consistent basis than those two but those two have far more ability and are more productive. They contribute more to the team even with their inconsistency than Lingard with his consistent mediocrity.

Let's turn it around, again: what did Lingard show to displace Martial and Mkhitaryan? Because he gets a similar amount of opportunities despite contributing significantly less.