Lingard again last night showed why he has no business being a starter at a top club. Completely missing. That's a re-occuring problem with him unfortunately. He has been good in pre-season (especially against the MLS sides, Probably his level), and give him his due he is always good in pre-season. But that could be down to him having superior fitness to the players just getting back into the swing of things. I fully expect Lingard to be a regular starter this season, and that doesn't bode well at all for our chances of challenging for the league.
14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 13
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
Agreed. Players like Lingard, Fellaini and Blind just lack the quality to be a consistent starting line-up player and won't develop into 1 either. Dump them and get someone who at least has the potential to grow to the level we need. Fellaini is lucky that he has his power and heading ability, but it's no surprise we can't set up a decent attack when Fellaini and Lingard are playing in midfield. Yesterday we instantly started to play better when Pereira came on. Much better movement without the ball and a far better understanding of the game when he has the ball as well.
I like the lad, but he's basically an automatic starter here, none of this 'squad player' business (the likes of Martial and Mkhitaryan are the squad players in reality). Generally, if he's fit, he starts. I have a problem with that. That's as far as my problem with him extends though.
Martial started the same number of games as Lingard in the league last year. Same amount of sub appearances. Mkhi 3 less starts, 2 more sub appearances.
A non goal scoring or assist making attacker! Why would anyone have a problem?
Mkhi - 2544 mins
Martial - 2517 mins
Lingard - 2208 mins
So the player who plays the least is an automatic starter in your eyes and those who play more are only considered squad players? Incredible logic.
Someone made this great point earlier that if his playing time is your problem then take it to the threads of Mikhitaryan and Martial who are not able to offer compelling reasons to be a solid part of our first XI. If people like these stink the place far too often, what option does our manager have to change them with someone who atleast puts in more effort, is defensively sound, and once in a while can create something good. What Jose could do is to find an upgrade, which I think he is trying to do with Perisic - i.e., a squad player who can be an alternative to when the first team players go missing, which is far too often.
Not sure what their injury records were like too. I recall Jesse starting throughout pre-season, before getting injured and missing the first month. When fit, he was put straight into the starting XI for the derby. Mkhitaryan was bad, Jesse was worse. Both were hooked at half time. Mkhi was ostracised while Jesse was rewarded with more games. The others obviously had spells in the team too, and perhaps on the whole played more mins (that they were fit and available for), I don't go to sqawkwa or wherever before every point I make on here. I certainly have no recollection of Jesse being left out of match day squads for prolonged periods like the others were when they were fit.
It's quite telling that this forum has reached the point where it's somehow acceptable to have Lingard over the likes of Martial. Mourinho has practically brainwashed most on here and all we hear now is hardwork, tracking back and all that stuff while what's most important for attacking players have become second requirements.
People have been fed this nonsense and gladly ate it.
Players with abilities to do things with the ball and make things happens(especially if given proper management and same patience as any workhorse out there by Mourinho) have become scapegoat and people don't want to have none of that while running around, working hard with very little footballing skills have become the go to things people want to see. Talk about accepting whatever a manager throws out there irregardless of it being reasonable or not.
People have been fed this nonsense and gladly ate it.
Players with abilities to do things with the ball and make things happens(especially if given proper management and same patience as any workhorse out there by Mourinho) have become scapegoat and people don't want to have none of that while running around, working hard with very little footballing skills have become the go to things people want to see. Talk about accepting whatever a manager throws out there irregardless of it being reasonable or not.
True Martial might have even started slightly more but i think Lingards starts increased as the season went on while Martials might have decreased, based on that trend it's fair to speculate that he might well start more games than Martial and/or Mkhitaryan this season. Which is a worrying thought.
I think he'll have a good season this year - I am more concerned about Mkhi to be honest. Lingard always looks lively but is refining decision making and needs to add a bit of guile to his game - would like to see him start crossing more though now we have Lukaku playing on the shoulder. He will never be a world class player but
Mkhi just drops off the face of the earth when not on form - seems so hot and cold in big games.
Mkhi just drops off the face of the earth when not on form - seems so hot and cold in big games.
People consider Lingard to be an squad player and accordingly expectations are lower than players like Martial who are supposed to be our key attacking players. Why is this so difficult to understand? And what evidence is there to show mismanagement by Mourinho? He showed enough patience and gave Martial a number of chances to prove himself in the first couple of months. Martial needs to rise upto the challenge and make himself undroppable from our team. And if you are failing to do so with competition like Lingard, you have only yourself to blame.
Lingard missed the least amount of games from injury. So basically you state things as fact which are completely false. Got you. Fact is the other two were fit less often and still played more often than Lingard so in no way is he an automatic starter and they are squad players. Not to mention when you add in Mata and Rashford who played more than the 3 of them then Lingard isn't even close to being an automatic starter. Bar Young and Shaw who had long spells out Jesse was the least played player in the main squad. So again, not even close to being an automatic starter. Maybe next time you should try checking one of those sites to see your post is completely wrong.
Jesse was injured for 3 games last season. The first three. That's it. out of 35 games he was fit for he started 15.
The problem with that logic is that Lingard offers absolutely no compelling reason whatsoever to play ahead of Martial or Mkhitaryan but he still gets to play quite a lot. It seems that he deserves to play by default while the others must prove themselves.
And of course playing better than Lingard is NOT considered to be a compelling reason to play them! No, they need to be consistently great! At this point people usually say, like @CG1010 above, that people consider Lingard a squad player and therefore expectations are lower. Which is a pretty fecking stupid reason, if you think about it: it basically means that it's okay that he plays like shite because we know he can't do better. Those who CAN do much better, however, need to prove themselves worthy of being selected ahead of him for some reason. It's all quite baffling.
Lingard IS NOT a squad player, he is a starter. He started most games toward last season tail's end and he's clearly being set up as a starter with the coming season approaching(unless something happens).
Martial has been mismanaged and I won't go too much into that given this isn't the appropriate thread.
And as to your point about Martial failing to displace Lingard, well that seems quite impossible at this point with Mourinho preferring Lingard regardless of his performances. Lingard started something like 8 straight games toward the tail's end of last season despite him putting in bad performances in each and every single one of them beside one(which was the Chelsea game).
When you have one player given continuous chances despite serving mediocrity while the other get benched for 4, 5 games after 1 average game than you know they aren't being treated similarly. Heck people are aware of this hence the tired excuse about X or Y players runs a lot( despite being utterly unproductive).
That goes without saying - Martial needs to step up his game. He has a lot more in his locker than just cutting in and looking for the pass, and should be involved in more goals. This could be the season that defines him.
Lingard on the other hand (our so called Wembley specialist) has far more leeway as he is a useful non-complaining squad member who would do what his manager asks of him. He needs to contribute far more, setting up people and scoring a few himself. About time he started repaying all the faith that this club has shown in the lad.
Starts last season:
Mata 33
Rashford 30
Mkhi 30
Lingard 28
Martial 28
Lingard is as much a starter as the others, he got less minutes for being hauled off for being ineffective for most of the time
Mata 33
Rashford 30
Mkhi 30
Lingard 28
Martial 28
Lingard is as much a starter as the others, he got less minutes for being hauled off for being ineffective for most of the time
Pretty much.
And even in case when the latter prove themselves, they have to put in a scintillating performance to have a chance to play ahead of a Lingard who puts in an average or bad performance. And in case they don't blow the roof in the following game, Lingard is called back and they(Martial in particular) get benched for many games before having another chance to do something. Meanwhile the season is going by and Lingard is being picked in the starting line up from the back of 4-5 consecutive bad performances.
There it is. Lingard shouldn't be considered a squad player when he's clearly a starter.
And the ironic thing about that list is that out of all those players listed, beside Mata(which I'm not sure) Martial had been the most productive despite being the least trusted while Lingard the least productive. And this is despite Martial never getting the same leeway and second chances as the other ones, especially Lingard and Rashford. yet he gets criticized more than anyone else(obviously because Mourinho opened that can of worms and everyone just want to be on his side).
@Santoryo, @Paul the Wolf, @Ninja7Red
You all make very good point and I agree for some part, but let's look flip side.
Tell me why you think Lingard play more or as much game as Martial or Mikhi? We all know both Martial and Mikhi are better player than him and I am sure Jose also know.
So why you think he play as much game as Martial and Mikhi?
You all make very good point and I agree for some part, but let's look flip side.
Tell me why you think Lingard play more or as much game as Martial or Mikhi? We all know both Martial and Mikhi are better player than him and I am sure Jose also know.
So why you think he play as much game as Martial and Mikhi?
On footballing ability the other 4 are clearly streets ahead of Lingard and all 4 can produce a moment of inspiration at any time - if Lingard starts as many games this coming season we have a problem.
Was hoping last season it was to gee up the others in Jose's style of management and his first year getting to know the players - am worried that as Lingard has started all 5 of the pre-season matches, last season's trend may continue.
Not been in the Lingard thread for a while.
Seems the same people repeating the same opinion over and over.
What is the motivation for this?
Is it some kind of incantation, that by saying he's not good enough a thousand times, you get to pick the team?
Seems the same people repeating the same opinion over and over.
What is the motivation for this?
Is it some kind of incantation, that by saying he's not good enough a thousand times, you get to pick the team?
So all 5 of them are starters?
And if those who defend him a thousand times, Lingard might actually turn into a good player, we can always hope
He's done well in pre-season so far, isn't that what everyone wants?
It seems like some fans prefer to moan about a players past performances, as justification for not giving them praise when they do, do well.
I'm convinced some people don't actually care if he improves, because they simply don't like him.
That's my theory anyway.
People have far too much time to complain about individual players repeatedly.
I've actually given up trying to defend him. Not because my opinion has altered, but because I have experience of arguing with people, who think winning an argument means repetition, until the other person gives up.
"Yay! I win!"
No thanks.
I admire the persistence though. It could achieve so much if applied to achieve an actual purpose.
Yeah this opinion that it's fine for Lingard to produce very little because other players are not playing out of their skin is a bit baffling.
I wonder if they ever analyse why they do it.
I don't think he is saying all 5 of them are starters. Mkhi and Martial were not named in the squad for multiple weeks last season whereas Lingard was. They were being dropped due to them putting in poor performances which was not applying to Lingard for some reason as he was being named in the XI or squad after doing the same.
People have a problem with treatment being given to Lingard, all of our attackers had better productivity than Lingard last season and it was not due to the fact they played more minutes than him. Lingards stats don't match up with our other attackers in wide areas and yet he has started all 5 of our preseason games this summer. It doesn't bode well for us, we need more quality that is why I'm in favor of signing Perisic even if Inter are demanding £48 million.
I stayed out of his performance thread in the latter part of last season and I intend to stay out of it during the coming season and have only come in at the start of this season to refute the rubbish that is spouted.
Unless he has a remarkable improvement in his footballing ability nothing is going to change in my opinion of him so I will be soon out of this thread and will come back only if he proves me wrong to congratulate him. See you in the 2018/2019 Lingard performance thread repeating the same things over and over again..
It's a mystery for sure. United fans having a problem watching a player be a regular for the team despite having conclusively proven beyond any doubt that he has nothing to offer in attack, even against the lower placed teams.
It's the thread for Lingard's 2017/18 performances, but instead of giving him praise for being one of the best players on tour so far, they are still stuck on him playing ahead of Martial & Mhiki last season.
It's pointless to me, but hey, if they have the time for it, why not.
We had a better scoring rate with Lingard on the pitch than without last season so also not exactly hampering our attack is he?
I was a big critic of Lingard last season and still don't think he is good enough to be here, but I was happy to give him credit when he played well. Last night he wasn't good though, and unfortunately it was a familiar problem of Jesse's in that he goes missing in key games. Got to take the rough with the smooth. Unfortunately it is generally rough with Lingard and i'm just hoping he comes good this season, I really do, As he looks like he is going to be a starter and we need more than 1 goal and a few assists from one of our main attacking outlets or we can forget Top 4.
He contributed 1 goal and 2 assists. That is horrendous stats. So i'd argue he is a huge problem. But hey, Let's just hope he does better this season.
It's quite telling that the likes of Martial couldn't completely displace a guy who had like 5 goals last season.
Is that not the point though?
Why feel the need to refute anything, when you have made your thoughts clear on numerous occasions?
What do you think you are achieving?
It is a performance thread. People should express their opinions on the last game, but these threads turn into a Groundhog Day experience, of stats and opinion over a player's career here.
It isn't a performance thread at all.
Maybe we need a "Why I don't like Lingard" thread, to take the vitriol and counter-extreme praise from this one.
It's the work rate Lingard offers that gets him into the team. Creating space, finding space, offering himself to receive a pass, tracking back, pressing, making sure he gets forward to contribute to counter attacks. He's not as good as Martial but he offers more overall by taking a lot of pressure off his teammates
I'm not even Lingard fan but the the problem with those bashing him and calling for Martial to start is they think that he's a super talent that we should carry Martial because of what he produces in the final third. Its just not the case. He blows hot and cold game by game, his finishing and crossing are both erratic and he spends too long on the fringes of the game to effect it.
It might all change with Lukaku. Jose might decide that he can carry Martial's lack of movement and work rate because Lukaku has the pace and presence in the box to get on the end of his crosses and has better finishing than Zlatan.
I like Lingard and defend him loads but he really should not be a starter. He's the least talented and the least productive of our attacking players and that should conclusively reflect in game time. If he's starting the same number of games as the rest then we'll have a similar season to the last.
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