Feel bad for him. You can see it coming a mile away that he’s going to get slaughtered by fans when he plays for England at the World Cup.
14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 13
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
I am quietly optimistic that he will have a good tournament.
Not a fan of Southgate but he looks like he has an actual plan on how he wants his England team to play (first manager in ages I've seen do that). And Jesse will be central to that.
I feel he may be one of England's better performers.
He struggles receiving the ball when anyone is tight to him and either gives away or falls over, watch the Chelsea cup final the ball to Rashford was a great idea and he over hit it, he’s very careless on the ball in fact i just think he has average technique for a united attacking player. I just think he’s on par with Cleverley. I saw the same type of thing (thread and opinions not skill set) with TC23. Where he got defended to the max as he was one of our own. Lingard for me is the same standard a not bad Watford player but not for United other than a squady. Just my opinion I may be wrong but I really just don’t rate him as starting 11 regular quality.
Stop talking shite. What managers rate him? He plays as our squad is lacking and once we have a better choice of players we’ll see how much game time he gets. You probably said the same about Cleverley and Gibson. No mystery here at all.
And that’s why England will be going home early. This England squad is abysmal compared to the so called golden generation when guys like Carrick and Scholes could not get a game in centre midfield.
It has nothing to do with that. He has shown that he can play well at the NT level. How his teammates perform is a different matter.
Poeple tend to either overlook this or can’t see it. He has tremendous movement and sometimes can come up with a worldie but it’s just a few components of that make player to be a United starting eleven standard. His passing as you rightly mentioned is very loose too, weight of his through balls is often so so poor and episodes that should result in simple goals end up being wasted.
I actually like him, he has right attitude and mentality fit for the club, as a bench player and in some cups he can still be utilised but he’s very far from what should be considered as being a starter in those positions for a club like ours.
Lingard is not good at physical battles, and his final pass is not reliable. I don't consider him a regular in the team either.
Another decent game for him today, especially in the first half. Usual Lingard really. Linked play, ran off the ball, played in between the lines. He and Alli were causing all sorts of problems for Nigeria.
I don’t get this it must be me as Hoddle was also praising him. I watched the game and Alli and Lingard were stone average to me. If that’s a typical game then it shows how average both them are. England will get pumped first good team they meet with these two over hyped players playing midfield. Causing all sort of problems for Nigeria I didn’t see that. I thought Kane was poor as well, Sterling was the threat but typically his final ball is very much hit or miss but he’s very dangerous all the same.
When an attacker is praised for his running off the ball, movement and similar basic footballing things you know he's had an average/shit game.
I’m out of here buddy had enough of trying to convince everyone he’s very average and at best a squad player quality.
Good squad option, reliable and hard working with a goal up his sleeve. But we won't win anything major with him as a starting 11 mainstay, in my opinion.
That’s such an ignorant post. Off the ball movement is far from “basic”. Inzaghi made a career at the very highest level based on not much more than that. Muller too.
Every manager he currently plays for.
Not buying that Pogue. Just as Jose rated Herrera last season? The manager (s) have played him (Moyes or LVG not that much) because that’s the state of our squad. Do you honestly think any these managers would have bought him? Much like Darmain, Blind, Young, Valencia, Mata, Herrera, Fellaini my belief is he’s being used out of necessity. If you rate him as a starter then fine but my belief is he’s TC23 level and by the way if TC23 was still here he’d have played a few times this season as well such is the state of our squad just now (Fellaini, Carrick, Herrera, Mata have offered next to nothing this season).
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I think the manager having to change the system said everything about the problems they faced in the first half.
Oh please enlighten me with your superior all knowing footballing knowledge.
Football is a sport where off the ball movement is created by system and coaching, every player is trained and coached for off the ball movement since the beginning. I'm not sure how far the standards have dipped for some, but good off the ball movement is something I expect every semi decent professional footballer to have.
You just took the most glaring example of a poacher striker with very limited qualities compared to other strikers of his generations who made a career of that. Pipo Inzaghi the best poacher striker I've ever seen, and yeah one of the few positions where his superior off the ball movement/nouse gave him advantage and scored tons of goals. Muller has much more to his game than that. You could have said Chicharito.
But a player who plays in Lingard's position, to be praised for his off the ball movement like some genuine quality he possesses over others, please go preach that shit to someone else.
Spot on and well said. Lingard and Alli (more so Alli) were terrible today. That said Alli has proven himself beyond a purple patch over a couple of months.
Problem is with players of this ilk, whilst movement is their best attribute, it is simply a means to a greater end:goals. With Lingard, I get the impression for him and those who support him that his movement is a satisfactory end in itself. Lingard's very average numbers are testament to that fact. If movement is your best attribute, you best have solid numbers to back it up like alli a few seasons ago.
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You should expect that. It still does not change that it is a quality, and that the level of this quality differs (like most qualities/skill/abilities). What seperates off ball movement from most other (all?) qualities is that you actually are of the ball 90 % of the game.
The way you express yourself make you sound mad and frustrated. It is hard to understand why. Is it because this is something that you find difficult to understand? A weird reaction..
I think this quote kinda sums him up. He can often do/choose a good option but then ruins it by not delivering the right type of ball. He seems to just become lazy and switch off like he thinks the hard part is done. It is frustrating, it’s kind of the same with his movement, I can’t decide if it’s smart movement or just him being a bundle of energy and finding himself in good areas by happenstance, because there are often occasions in games where he closes off space for others or just sits behind people not offering himself it’s really weird.
Watching him is like watching amateur boxing match. Lots of action, that could land occasional good punch in myriad of punches. It’s exciting to some, compare to heavyweight pro match, where punches where exchanged a lot less, but with substance.
Or Lingard this season?
Off the ball movement for Lingard should be the cherry on top of the cake when the rest of his game (the most important aspect as in passing and controlling ) will be at a good level
You don't rate Zidane?
Pogue ask yourself how many games Lingard actually effected with these goals or assists?
Plus I don’t read to much into these stats as a all encompassing end as if he had a similar playmaking skill to say a Willian then you have to factor this. Problem for us is Jesse passes the ball simple often to the player he just received it from and then makes a run away. Very similar to what Cleverly did.
You said our manager rates him but in the champions league he scored 0 goals. Out the 8 games we played he came on 3 times late on as a sub, started 3 games all which he got subbed and was an unused sub in two of the games. That doesn’t sound to me the stats of a player he rates very highly.
I have no problem understanding the importance of part of the play every pro footballer is trained and should do as bare minimum. As you said every player is more or less participating in the play without the ball. What separates very good players from average ones at the highest level is they have that understanding of the game and movement, but have genuine quality on the ball and influence the game with it.
What are you the cafe’s therapist?
The way I express myself is based on the level the discussion is conducted. When someone tries to act all knowing and brands a half argument as ignorant, I reply at the way I feel he deserves. And nothing against Lingard, I praised him when I felt he was good, in general I maintain the same opinion on him, more or less.
For some reason, not all do. We've witnessed this first hand with the likes of Martial and Rashford who have no idea how to move off the ball.
And as for Lingard, he also had 22 goals and assists this season in 36 starts.
Right off the top of my head:
Watford
Arsenal
Derby (FA)
Everton
Chelsea
Burnley
Swansea (LC)
Leicester (assists) x2
Most of those games fall under his only purple patch so far in his United career which lasted like 2 months. He was very good during that spell of the season, but ultimately you can’t only perform for two months a season at Manchester United. He has been almost completely anonymous for us since February while starting regularly. So far evidence suggests it was a one off and a lot of average players do go through the spell of form were they seem to be world beaters, you only need to look as far as Darmian and his first few months at the club.
His drop in performances is also down to being used differently. He is clearly at his best when playing the number 10 role. As the season has progressed he has been playing a bit more defensive to make a 3 in midfield and has also played off the right.
His drop in performances from those couple of months seem more in line with his career to date rather than just being a change of position. If you are talking just goals and assists then I’d agree with you but we are not are we? A bit like Alli this season if you judge him on goals and assists great but actually performances are not great. If you’re talking or thinking about him being our 10 then I’d expect them to have a bigger impact than just goals and assists. Jesse doesn’t do this nearly enough often being non existent in games and if his goal return goes back to normal (that’s his career to date 1 goal in every 7/8 games) then what do we have?
I don't think it refers only to Martial and Rashford really, Alexis has been the same, which tells a story that the problem is not solely on those two young players, but an experienced attacker who had no problems in previous clubs. I think it's due to the system the manager employs, and I'm Mourinho supporter, but most of our attack is very dysfunctional.
Lingard numbers have been great this season, which prompt me to change my opinion of him, previously I didn't think he had what it takes to even be a squad player here, now I am okay for him to have such a role and I'm glad we have another academy graduate in the squad.
Like if everyone forgot how good season for a squad player he had. He only dropped in form in the second half but we have seen that drop in performances in the whole team. Midfield with superslow Matic and off position Pogba didnt help the team either and worrying Lukaku up front and not a single LW to pick up form, how can you then judge Lingard if he plays on the right in a disjointed team, in a position where he's half the player.
I think he will have a good tounament and think Southgate will utilize him well, sacrifice his attacking input by playing him a bit defensively but from the center where he's certainly better, the whole set up might be based on a good solid defence, decent pressing and good transition to attack let's hope that Sterling and Kane will have a good torunament too, otherwise it will look a bit dull and people will find their scapegoats..
I think he will have a good tounament and think Southgate will utilize him well, sacrifice his attacking input by playing him a bit defensively but from the center where he's certainly better, the whole set up might be based on a good solid defence, decent pressing and good transition to attack let's hope that Sterling and Kane will have a good torunament too, otherwise it will look a bit dull and people will find their scapegoats..
Actually, he started 30 games and it was 21 goals and assists.
http://www.espnfc.com/player/169136/jesse-lingard?season=2017
But the thing is he is creeping more towards a starter than a squad player in appearances this season.
Plus he only dipped because others dipped? This is where I’m looking for our players to step up when others dipped not excusing them. Also are you applying the logic Jesse was as good as the likes of Matic in the first half of the season? When in fact it was more of a two month purple patch then he resumed normal output?
Pogba has what’s deemed a poor season (by many on here and in the press) yet he was as productive as Jesse and plays in a deeper position, he also influences our play more in the 90 minutes. Is it expectations as a Pogba was £89m and Jesse from the academy? As if we are looking to win things we need to start judging our 11 equally. Yeah no doubt we cannot have a squad full of £89m players I get that so I fully agree but our 11 is going to be stacked with quality to win this league and having Jesse as a regular in the 11 in my opinion is he’s not got the quality (he’s in his mid twenties now) but as a squad player fine.
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