Not to the extent Lingard is being criticized. Someone claimed that Lingard's performance was the most terrible performance possible in a football game. Others have called him rubbish - when he scored the goal and was defensively solid when shifted to the wing.
14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 5
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
Not to the extent Lingard is being criticized. Someone claimed that Lingard's performance was the most terrible performance possible in a football game. Others have called him rubbish - when he scored the goal and was defensively solid when shifted to the wing.
Lignard is our new scapegoat, No matter what he do he will always shit.
Beside fans see Martial as future star, and will not or minimal question his performance.
This is the seventh post in his performance thread after the game (Mata):
People love coming in here claiming others get a free pass when it just isn't true. I thought Mata, Martial and Lingard were all utter shite but at least Lingard can say that he actually done something of note and got himself on the score sheet. I would definitely have criticised Mata until I read about his grandfathers passing; I mean surely it's understandable to you that maybe, just maybe, he had more on his mind than a game of football? As for Martial, again he was definitely criticised for his performance and rightly so. Lingard was actually praised by plenty in here after his goal too but when you only read one side of the opinions, then it's east to make an agenda, I guess.
Yes, Lingard gets plenty of criticism but unfortunately he often looks well below the standard that's required. Other players received the exact same treatment so it's not only Lingard. He's a player that will divide opinions and I don't really see what's wrong with that. Some of the criticism - like with pretty much every player - will be OTT, but if it bothers you, ignore it. Sure Zlatan was been written off as a joke during a barren spell earlier in the season and the critisisim was completely OTT; so it's hardly a case that Lingard is victimised. Clearly players like Lingard will be divisive, it's hardly earth shattering news.
He was poor on Sunday and that is the truth. You can throw in that most of the team was poor and that's fair game. Fact of the matter is, records will show that Lingard got himself a goal and fair play. By virtue of that goal alone, I would rate him higher in that match than Mata and Martial as I believe that both had very poor games.
How the feck can someone be a 'scapegoat' in a match that we just won? His recent form has been extremely poor but he got a goal on Sunday and hopefully he can get a few more before the season is out.
Re your second sentence: Considering his exploits last season when he basically carried us, is that not fair game? Martial is an excellent prospect but he has suffered with his form this season for one reason or another.
Probably because Lingard has been rubbish for 18 months (apart from a good month in August). So he is always going to get more criticism when he is in such bad form or just lacking in ability.
Mata has won us so many points that he is more entitled to have a bad game and not get as much stick, especially considering he had no part in the lead up to the game because he was at his Grandfather's funeral. FWIW - I thought they were both very poor on Sunday and a big reason we were getting overrun.
The overall play was below par but I think the importance of the goal is being understated here, if Gabbiadini still scores before half time then the second half is completely different. It's not like we played any better when he came off either (in my opinion).
That's what I'm wondering but the caf managed it.
At the time I thought "wow, two nil up but completely undeserved, good stuff". Most have acknowledged that he done better than most by getting himself a goal. However and more worryingly, his overall play looked well off the mark once again. He needs to start doing more when he gets himself starts.
The word "scapegoat" means little to me around here and is often exaggerated. Fellaini, Smalling and Lingard (to name a few) are apparently all '"scapegoats". It's a word that's thrown around like confetti. Most in here that don't rate him, are hardly going to change their opinions on him after a goal and a subpar display. That's fair enough and doesn't make him a "scapegoat" or anything like it.
Maybe it's just me but it seems like people are going at lengths to separate the goal from the display when the goal was part of the display.
Rojo would have probably got a six point something but then he got that assist for lingards goal, important moments like that sway the ratings
I don't see it, personally. For me, the people that have never rated him, still don't rate him and plenty have praised his goal. I wouldn't really expect people to change their opinions of a player they don't rate based on a goal, though. It'll clearly take a hell of a-lot more to win people over.
I do agree that the goal was definitely the important part but since this is a 'performance' related thread, it's fair game to point out that overall, he wasn't very good. Even sensible heads like @Pogue Mahone have come in here and said they thought he had a poor game. I would love to see more from Lingard but recently, he isn't showing it. For me, his best recent performance was when he came off the bench against St Etienne and helped to change the game. If I remember correctly, he then started the next game and was poor. I personally prefer him off the bench.
I said his overall play was poor but you can't look at this in isolation when he did more than Rashford who came on for him, or Martial, or Mata. We didn't play better when after he came off. We're going round in circles here anyway.
What I think we can all agree on is that it's awesome that he scored and we won our first cup under Mourinho. I hope people don't forget that amid all the negativity.
It's a single swing of his boot though. Surely you accept that it's possible to play badly and still score a goal?
Well yeah, but most (well I have anyway) have acknowledged that the team in general were woeful, for the most part. Others like Mata, Martial etc have rightly been criticised in their respective threads for subpar performances. I will reiterate though, it's fair game to say he didn't play well.
Exactly, as I mentioned earlier, when this game is looked back upon, his name will be there as a goal scorer and no one will care what his overall performance was like.
2 touches (had to control the pass Rojo blasted at him first). And I did, I said his overall play was poor but come on, goals are the hardest and most important thing in the game.
Heh. You're really desperate to give him as much credit as possible, aren't you?
I like Jesse. I hope he has a long and distinguished career at United and a lot of the stick he gets on here is undeserved. He was pants on Sunday, though. Would be in the running for the worst performance on the day. Despite a well-taken goal.
Well is what I said factually true or false? Because I could turn that around on you x10 with your reducing a goal to a "swing of the boot".
I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact Lingards over all play is so bad. He actively stops attacks and it's not like he scores every game like Kane. Ok different positions but he doesn't contribute enough in either over all play or goals which is a shame as I love the local lads doing well.
It was false. The ball wasn't "blasted at him". He's a Premier League footballer ffs. That pass wasn't even close to being struck so firmly that it would be tricky to control. As it happened, his control was a bit ropey anyway iirc.
That's how I remember it anyway (Rojo with an Anderson type pass). It's not really important if I'm wrong. I don't think you can question his control considering quality of the shot.
Check the posts here, he make one important contribution in match, still label as terrible performance.
It's not like only his form is poor, some of our players performance are poor also but still its always others fault.
He is squad player, and he is happy to be as squad player, and make good contribution in our win. Still most of post here about his position and passing rather than his goal.
I am never believer to put OTT criticism to our player. Just read post which I reply.
And that why write most of Fans think he will be our star player in future.
But in same way as you said he also poor in this season.
but still you will not see the harsh posts which is posted here.
Don't get me wrong, he was very poor in that game,
but you should give credit where it due, he make very big contribution by scoring goal in that game fair play to him.
Most of our players might wasted that chance like he did in second half.
People have praised his goal and left it at that whereas some have pointed out he played poor, and imo, both are fair enough. I personally want so much more from Lingard and believe he has it in him to play much better than he did on Sunday and also score more goals, in general.
I think it's natural for fans of any club to give certain players more leeway, specifically ones which have shown how good they can be. Lingard has never shown on a consistent basis that he can reach anything like the levels that Martial did last season.
The thing is though with Jesse is his form is very rarely good. His general form has been meh where with other players we can moan about dips in form (Martial) but that's off set by the highs. With Jesse there are very few highs.
Does anybody really believe JM...who has benched Miktaryan, Martial and Luke Shaw would be playing lingard if he was as shit as people here like to believe or does he implement the managers instructions enough to earn his trust....do we ignore that fact if it doesn't fit with our narrative ?
I don't think anyone questions his work-rate so no idea what 'narrative' you're seeing. People have questioned his quality and they are fully entitled to, imo.
It's been a long time since he's actually started a game and played well. Since that assist at West Bromwich:
Sunderland at home- Played over an hour, team leading 1-0 to a very poor David Moyes side, game ends 3-1.
West Ham away- Very poor performance, West Ham go a man down and United barely threaten, game ends 0-2 after Rashford replaces Lingard.
Hull away (League Cup)- 2-1 loss, a poor team performance. Subbed after 79 mins.
Blackburn away (FA Cup)- The team was poor, until he was replaced by the big guns.
Southampton (Wembley)- Poor team performance, he was overall poor but scored a good goal.
So is he doing his job? He's mostly being let off by saying he comes in and does a job. He's a scapegoat when the team plays poorly. There was no service from midfield you say. But is he doing a job when the team drops off? A team that has played pretty well over the last 3 months just happens to have a bad game bordering on every game he starts?
When do we start asking questions about his part of these team performances? He just isn't performing, even as a squad player at the moment. A good goal at Wembley, sure but over the course of this season he's been very, very poor.
Sunderland at home- Played over an hour, team leading 1-0 to a very poor David Moyes side, game ends 3-1.
West Ham away- Very poor performance, West Ham go a man down and United barely threaten, game ends 0-2 after Rashford replaces Lingard.
Hull away (League Cup)- 2-1 loss, a poor team performance. Subbed after 79 mins.
Blackburn away (FA Cup)- The team was poor, until he was replaced by the big guns.
Southampton (Wembley)- Poor team performance, he was overall poor but scored a good goal.
So is he doing his job? He's mostly being let off by saying he comes in and does a job. He's a scapegoat when the team plays poorly. There was no service from midfield you say. But is he doing a job when the team drops off? A team that has played pretty well over the last 3 months just happens to have a bad game bordering on every game he starts?
When do we start asking questions about his part of these team performances? He just isn't performing, even as a squad player at the moment. A good goal at Wembley, sure but over the course of this season he's been very, very poor.
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He has his squad position at this moment of time for me. I don't get much annoyed by his poor performances anymore because I see him for what he is; a bang average player that puts in a shift. Defo more miss than hit, but if he's still getting in to the team then he's fulfilling some functions that the manager asks of him. And if anything [in regards to him starting games], it's pretty indicative of a need in our squad - whether that be because others are under-performing, or simply they lack the work rate Mou needs for that position in a particular tactical setup.
Still not ideal obvs, it's glaringly obvious he isn't United quality. But then United haven't been United quality for the longest time now. Only just starting to get going.
Still not ideal obvs, it's glaringly obvious he isn't United quality. But then United haven't been United quality for the longest time now. Only just starting to get going.
Exactly, add to that the start of the season, we win our first three league games when he's injured, he "plays" against City and surprise, we lose and his display in that first half was the worst I think I've ever seen from a United player. As he gradually gets less involved in the team as the season progresses United play better, except in the games he starts as per above.
And that why he is squad player and Martial is starter,
We all know he is not good as Martial, but you have to understand there is a place for him in team.
I don't have problem with criticism for Jesse, he is poor this season and should be criticism but there is OTT criticism for him.
He score an important goal in game where our most of players play shit, give me a day off.
Another lovely goal at Wembley for him, must be some sort of record for a United player surely scoring in 3 consecutive games there?
Was expecting either Lingard and or Fellaini to start so wasn't surprised to see his name in the line up. Clearly there is a reason that Jose picked him and trusted him to start a cup final over the likes of Rooney. I don't get some of the criticism he is getting but I think he is always destined to get such. On a day where we were collectively poor with very few exceptions he still scored and helped blunt Southampton somewhat as the second half went on.
It does seem as if Lingard will be this eras version of Fletcher/O Shea etc. (not comparing the quality of the individual players) in that every time he is starting people will gnash their teeth and wring their hands in frustration despite him being picked by the coach for a very good reason.
Was expecting either Lingard and or Fellaini to start so wasn't surprised to see his name in the line up. Clearly there is a reason that Jose picked him and trusted him to start a cup final over the likes of Rooney. I don't get some of the criticism he is getting but I think he is always destined to get such. On a day where we were collectively poor with very few exceptions he still scored and helped blunt Southampton somewhat as the second half went on.
It does seem as if Lingard will be this eras version of Fletcher/O Shea etc. (not comparing the quality of the individual players) in that every time he is starting people will gnash their teeth and wring their hands in frustration despite him being picked by the coach for a very good reason.
More like this era's version of Tom Cleverley.. I'd say Blind will fall under that category of memorable squad players.
I was OK with that performance. I mean, I am I was not over the top about it, but that was a decent performance. Here comes in your regular squad player, a player who is lucky to get 1 or 2 appearances a month, and he scores a goal. A very crucial one which helped us in winning the match.
I think the entire attack suffered. Marial and Mata did not have the best of matches either. Only Zlatan was able to play well but that was only because of great individual brilliance. They pressed us a lot and our midfield were failing to transition the ball from defence to attack (partly because our defence was also very poor and seemed to panic and make awkward clearances).
So, our attackers had to track back and feed on scraps. It is too much to expect Lingard to stand out when other more able players were struggling in such a situation. He is someone who performs with the team. Quick one twos, movement, pressing. He is someone who helps others play well.
There were a few occasions where he ran with the ball ahead only to find no options to pass and our midfielders camped deep in our half. He was quickly surrounded and dispossessed . He is hardly going to go on a Messi like run.
That said, it was far from an ideal performance even from a squad player. I did not understand why he and Mata did not interchange positions during the match. I think it was because Jesse did not take the initiative but I could be wrong. Also, he regularly needs someone to play off and exchange passes. Without that option he is nullified and it is like playing with a player less. Even in the wing positions, he is willing to let the fullback take the initiative of taking on the opponent fullback.
In short, if you are judging the performance as a squad player then that was decent. Not good, but decent. But if you are judging it as performance given by first team regular then it was quite poor. I mean, Rooney is regularly blasted for performances like that and that is also when he does score a goal.
I have seen Lingard perform much better than this and must say that he needs to put in more. He did score today, but in general, his finishing has been poor this season. His crossing, strength and ball control has remained the same or has actually regressed. He has much more in his locker and he needs to start showing it.
I think the entire attack suffered. Marial and Mata did not have the best of matches either. Only Zlatan was able to play well but that was only because of great individual brilliance. They pressed us a lot and our midfield were failing to transition the ball from defence to attack (partly because our defence was also very poor and seemed to panic and make awkward clearances).
So, our attackers had to track back and feed on scraps. It is too much to expect Lingard to stand out when other more able players were struggling in such a situation. He is someone who performs with the team. Quick one twos, movement, pressing. He is someone who helps others play well.
There were a few occasions where he ran with the ball ahead only to find no options to pass and our midfielders camped deep in our half. He was quickly surrounded and dispossessed . He is hardly going to go on a Messi like run.
That said, it was far from an ideal performance even from a squad player. I did not understand why he and Mata did not interchange positions during the match. I think it was because Jesse did not take the initiative but I could be wrong. Also, he regularly needs someone to play off and exchange passes. Without that option he is nullified and it is like playing with a player less. Even in the wing positions, he is willing to let the fullback take the initiative of taking on the opponent fullback.
In short, if you are judging the performance as a squad player then that was decent. Not good, but decent. But if you are judging it as performance given by first team regular then it was quite poor. I mean, Rooney is regularly blasted for performances like that and that is also when he does score a goal.
I have seen Lingard perform much better than this and must say that he needs to put in more. He did score today, but in general, his finishing has been poor this season. His crossing, strength and ball control has remained the same or has actually regressed. He has much more in his locker and he needs to start showing it.
He recently became a squad player as his performance levels were poor but at the start of the season he got game time (in big games) in front of Martial, Mata and Mykytarin and even Rsshford. That is what can be frustrating!
That was more to do with the fact that Martial and Mkhitaryan weren't just poor in their performances, but were actually negligent with their responsibilities. Lingard was a somewhat reliable but unspectacular alternative when others were showing traits that may have contributed to lost points.
Surely everyone just sees Lingard for what he is: a reliable, hard working player who isn't the most technically gifted but fills an important squad role, whilst being happy with this role and only costing us modest resources in the process.
He is the definition of a good backup player. If he plays too much for anyone's liking it's almost certainly because other more talented players are either becoming complacent, are injured or are out of form.
Certainly there'd be a dozen players I'd be rid of before Lingard.
He was always squad player, he plays more because our starter player are more shitter then him.
He put in loads of effort on Sunday and got himself on the score sheet but in general his play was poor, especially in the first half. He keeps trying to do little 1-2s and gets his pass wrong allot of the time with his back to goal which creates a free ball in the middle of the park.
He's not a bad squad player and gets goals but it's clear his quality is lacking at the top level overall.
He's not a bad squad player and gets goals but it's clear his quality is lacking at the top level overall.
Should practice taking throw-ins rather than dance-routines with Pogba.
He has been, just been practicing them with Valencia.
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