[El Jefe]

I don't think he's being treated unfairly here. To be an attacker for this club is a big deal and comes with a lot of scrutiny and expectation.

Looking at it objectively, you would say he's been well below the standard required. When he gets the ball there's pretty much zero excitement as you know the possibility of him doing anything exciting or creative is very low. You can't say that for our other attackers.

He needs to fix up fast or like most have said, he'll go the Cleverley route.

 

[Shamwow]

Ahhh the old agenda line. Not seen it for a few days. It isn't an agenda, he just isn't very good. Even the Lingard cousins 'LouBlaze and shamwow' don't try to defend him anymore.

How about you stop acting like a toxic piece of crap and stirring shit up? The main reason I don't bother posting on the caf much any more is because arseholes like you are so tiresome to debate with.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

How about you stop acting like a toxic piece of crap and stirring shit up? The main reason I don't bother posting on the caf much any more is because arseholes like you are so tiresome to debate with.

Sorry if I offended you. I thought you took pride in defending Lingard and enjoyed the debate. Obviously not.

 

[Shamwow]

Sorry if I offended you. I thought you took pride in defending Lingard and enjoyed the debate. Obviously not.

There was literally no reason to mention me like you did, and why do you do it? Do undermine someone else's opinion. Uncalled for and just shows what kind of person you are.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

There was literally no reason to mention me like you did, and why do you do it? Do undermine someone else's opinion. Uncalled for and just shows what kind of person you are.

I mentioned you because generally you and Loublaze are the biggest Lingard supporters and used to defend him to the death. So I mentioned the fact you guys don't even defend him anymore as he has been that bad lately. Nothing personal on you or Loublaze, not sure why you seem to be taking it so hard. I won't derail the thread so if you are really upset about it then we will speak via PM. I will say though, your last 2 posts have been alot more personal in attacking me, but hey.

 

[flappyjay]

He is in desperate need of a good performance

 

[Adam-Utd]

Running around a lot is great but you need to add end product to go with that. If he wants a starting slot in our front 4 he needs to be bringing 15 goals to the table a season, he will never reach that.

 

[luke511]

There was literally no reason to mention me like you did, and why do you do it? Do undermine someone else's opinion. Uncalled for and just shows what kind of person you are.

Grow a pair

 

[RedPnutz]

Why do you have an account here then if your view on everything presumably is: "the manager(s) knows more than me" on everything.

It can't be much fun discussing a game when all you think is that the person paid to pick the team is more qualified therefore you can't possibly have an opinion as to whether the team selection was right or wrong. Or who we should sign or sell on the basis that you don't know as much as Mourinho so presumably won't have a view on anything one way or another other than to back whatever decisions are made

Are your other 440 posts you declaring how unqualified you are to hold an opinion?

It's fun to discuss the game of course but many posts are not discussing, just dissing our own players.

 

[Robbie Boy]

It's fun to discuss the game of course but many posts are not discussing, just dissing our own players.

I mean most of us came on here after the St Etienne game (first leg) to praise his cameo. It's then fair game to criticise his performance against Blackburn which, quite frankly, was shocking. Some in here (I won't name names) genuinely get upset and abusive when he gets criticised. It's really odd.

I'll be honest, I feel he's regressed this season. He has no league goals - he hasn't gotten that many minutes but still - and his general play has actually been worse than it was last season. Right now, he's not showing enough and against Blackburn - after a good little cameo midweek - he had a chance to impress from the start and he was utterly hopeless. I want our 'squad players' to be reliable and able to produce when called upon. This season, Lingard hasn't shown he's capable of that.

 

[RedPnutz]

I mean most of us came on here after the St Etienne game (first leg) to praise his cameo. It's then fair game to criticise his performance against Blackburn which, quite frankly, was shocking. Some in here (I won't name names) genuinely get upset and abusive when he gets criticised. It's really odd.

I'll be honest, I feel he's regressed this season. He has no league goals - he hasn't gotten that many minutes but still - and his general play has actually been worse than it was last season. Right now, he's not showing enough and against Blackburn - after a good little cameo midweek - he had a chance to impress from the start and he was utterly hopeless. I want our 'squad players' to be reliable and able to produce when called upon. This season, Lingard hasn't shown he's capable of that.

Oh I think there are many posters who do give him credit where it is due. However it seems a rising trend of posters more ready and harsher to put a player down than praise efforts. Not just in Lingard thread but Zlatan and Pogba thread for example.

Lingard may have regressed, I don't know. I just think his form fluctuates which is natural given that is isn't a starter. I think it speaks well of Lingard that two managers of different styles have included him in the squad; he must be doing something right.

This so-called world class or top four or United quality that fans keep banging about is unrealistic. Since Fergie's time we have always use squad players like Lingard to complement the so-called stars. If our own homegrown academy players are seriously lacking in quality, that's a shortcoming of the club.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

This so-called world class or top four or United quality that fans keep banging about is unrealistic. Since Fergie's time we have always use squad players like Lingard to complement the so-called stars. If our own homegrown academy players are seriously lacking in quality, that's a shortcoming of the club.

We could easily fill our bench with much better players though even with our current squad so how "unrealistic" is it really?

 

[AndyJ1985]

Oh I think there are many posters who do give him credit where it is due. However it seems a rising trend of posters more ready and harsher to put a player down than praise efforts. Not just in Lingard thread but Zlatan and Pogba thread for example.

Lingard may have regressed, I don't know. I just think his form fluctuates which is natural given that is isn't a starter. I think it speaks well of Lingard that two managers of different styles have included him in the squad; he must be doing something right.

This so-called world class or top four or United quality that fans keep banging about is unrealistic. Since Fergie's time we have always use squad players like Lingard to complement the so-called stars. If our own homegrown academy players are seriously lacking in quality, that's a shortcoming of the club.

Squad player isn't a synonym for crap player though. A squad player at a big club should still be good enough to come in to the team when needed and not look like he doesn't belong there. Lingard wouldn't look out of place at Sunderland or Hull. When a player like Mata or Mkhitaryan or Martial gets injured and we need to call on our squad players, is Lingard really an acceptable replacement? Does he do anything half as well as any of them? For me it's a resounding no.

 

[manutddjw]

The most common repeated phrase in this thread is "he's a good squad player". No he's not. A good squad player is someone like O'Shea or Brown, who can fill in for Rio Ferdinand and while they aren't as good as Rio, they don't hurt the team or jeopardize the result. A good squad player is Hernandez who can start or come off the bench and help us win games. A good squad player is Park or Fletcher who can get instructions from the manager and do the job that's required of them. A good squad player isn't someone we start and 9 times out of 10 gets hauled off after 60 minutes for being ineffective.

 

[Still ill]

Again, I think his value is in the different movement, patterns of running he offers us. He can't do what Martial or Rashford does as well as they can, ditto Mata but he can cause different problems as evidenced by his game-changing cameo in last weeks first leg. Variety is the spice of a successful subs bench and ours is more valuable at the moment than any of our rivals'.

 

[RedPnutz]

We could easily fill our bench with much better players though even with our current squad so how "unrealistic" is it really?

Squad player isn't a synonym for crap player though. A squad player at a big club should still be good enough to come in to the team when needed and not look like he doesn't belong there. Lingard wouldn't look out of place at Sunderland or Hull. When a player like Mata or Mkhitaryan or Martial gets injured and we need to call on our squad players, is Lingard really an acceptable replacement? Does he do anything half as well as any of them? For me it's a resounding no.

Yes we could always replace our bench with better players, technically every team could, even Barcelona or Bayern. Barcelona could theoretically buy Mhikitaryan to sit on their bench.

I, too hope that the quality or our first team and bench on average can increase in quality. And yes there are games Lingard looks out of place but there are others where he doesn't. It could be the opponent's style or the players around him. Even Pogba doesn't look like a world beater in every game.

But it is a balance. The supposed United Way is to provide a platform for our own homegrown players and realistically, there will be a sacrifice in quality at some point. It then depends on the manager to squeeze the best performance out of them to complement the team. Of course, we could go the galactico way and just chase quality all around. We can certainly afford it.

It comes down to a matter of opinion. I don't think that Lingard is as good as Mata or Henrikh or Martial at all. But then you are saying that Lingard is 4th or 5th choice, and you wouldn't imagine him to play many games anyway. Just purely mathematics, a fourth choice winger plays 25% of games but you would expect a lot less if the guys above are playing consistently. Do we need a player that is much better?You could say what if all the players above get injured? It could happen but it's about probability.

I would like to know which player we could get that is much better than Lingard, and who is content to play only up to 20-25% of games with the potential to play a few more only if three people ahead of are injured for a prolonged period of time.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Just purely mathematics, a fourth choice winger plays 25% of games but you would expect a lot less if the guys above are playing consistently. Do we need a player that is much better?You could say what if all the players above get injured? It could happen but it's about probability.

I would like to know which player we could get that is much better than Lingard, and who is content to play only up to 20-25% of games with the potential to play a few more only if three people ahead of are injured for a prolonged period of time.

I'd give that Ashley Young fella a go.

 

[Sylar]

Its all set up for him to score a fantastic goal at Wembley... again.

 

[RedPnutz]

I'd give that Ashley Young fella a go.

I would to. But some would argue he too doesn't have enough quality and is on too-high wages.

 

[bri2013]

The most common repeated phrase in this thread is "he's a good squad player". No he's not. A good squad player is someone like O'Shea or Brown, who can fill in for Rio Ferdinand and while they aren't as good as Rio, they don't hurt the team or jeopardize the result. A good squad player is Hernandez who can start or come off the bench and help us win games. A good squad player is Park or Fletcher who can get instructions from the manager and do the job that's required of them. A good squad player isn't someone we start and 9 times out of 10 gets hauled off after 60 minutes for being ineffective.

Do you not consider a good squad player could be someone whose movement drags the opposition around for 60 minutes, tiring them out, before unleashing the quick players off the bench against tired legs?

 

[manutddjw]

Do you not consider a good squad player could be someone whose movement drags the opposition around for 60 minutes, tiring them out, before unleashing the quick players off the bench against tired legs?

No I consider that a waste of 60 minutes. His movement is excellent but if that is the best thing he is going to contribute, I'd rather start someone like Martial or Rashford who will take on the defender or Mata who can play a pass.

 

[bri2013]

No I consider that a waste of 60 minutes. His movement is excellent but if that is the best thing he is going to contribute, I'd rather start someone like Martial or Rashford who will take on the defender or Mata who can play a pass.

His movement creates spaces for other players to play in, and tires opponents out because they have to track his runs. He will never be anywhere near world class, but he is a decent squad player to have because he does a job for the team that he is asked to do.

If we had a squad full of world class players, we would have an unhappy bench.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Opinion is one thing. Agenda driven hate and drivel mongering is something else altogether.

That is a phrase of linguistic beauty. A succinctly apt way to describe this new, slightly Orwellian phenomenon. Bravo.

 

[Mourinhonista]

He's currently going through a rough patch, can happen to anyone. Of course when it happens to Ibrahimovic he'll still produce more, but Lingard is a squad player, not a starter. His off-ball movements are what sets him apart compared to the likes of Mata, Martial and Mkhitaryan, we need those runners.

Football aside, i think Lingard is very important for the dressing room. He seems always positive and gets on well with Pogba. These things do matter, i for one wouldn't try to get rid of Lingard, i think he deserves his place here. Local lad, local hero!

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

The most common repeated phrase in this thread is "he's a good squad player". No he's not. A good squad player is someone like O'Shea or Brown, who can fill in for Rio Ferdinand and while they aren't as good as Rio, they don't hurt the team or jeopardize the result. A good squad player is Hernandez who can start or come off the bench and help us win games. A good squad player is Park or Fletcher who can get instructions from the manager and do the job that's required of them. A good squad player isn't someone we start and 9 times out of 10 gets hauled off after 60 minutes for being ineffective.

A good squad player is Ashley Young, but he gets dogs abuse from alot of United fans for some reason.

 

[Robbie Boy]

His movement creates spaces for other players to play in, and tires opponents out because they have to track his runs. He will never be anywhere near world class, but he is a decent squad player to have because he does a job for the team that he is asked to do.

If we had a squad full of world class players, we would have an unhappy bench.

His movement should merely be a part of his game, not his actual game.

 

[TwoSheds]

The most common repeated phrase in this thread is "he's a good squad player". No he's not. A good squad player is someone like O'Shea or Brown, who can fill in for Rio Ferdinand and while they aren't as good as Rio, they don't hurt the team or jeopardize the result. A good squad player is Hernandez who can start or come off the bench and help us win games. A good squad player is Park or Fletcher who can get instructions from the manager and do the job that's required of them. A good squad player isn't someone we start and 9 times out of 10 gets hauled off after 60 minutes for being ineffective.

Perhaps you don't recall the shit O'Shea got from this forum throughout his time here.

Or indeed young Fletcher got up until around 24/25 (though tbf Fletch was cack for a few years until he clicked around 22/23).

We always have at least 2 players in the squad that are the whipping boys. Valencia and Young in the past, sometimes Jones, Smalling and Herrera more recently. At the moment it's Lingard and Fellaini. Tbf Fellaini's terrible but until we have a better replacement I don't see the point in shitting on him. He does his best.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

His movement creates spaces for other players to play in, and tires opponents out because they have to track his runs. He will never be anywhere near world class, but he is a decent squad player to have because he does a job for the team that he is asked to do.

If we had a squad full of world class players, we would have an unhappy bench.

His movement does not help the team , he clogs up the pitch and contributes zero 90% of the time. He doesn't tire other defenders out because there's no point in tracking him, there is almost no end product.

We do not need a complete squad of world class players, why do we have to go from a terrible player to a world class player, there are levels in between - squad players should be good, first team starters should be very good or better. We have no need to have crap players in the squad- no reason whatsoever.

 

[bri2013]

His movement does not help the team , he clogs up the pitch and contributes zero 90% of the time. He doesn't tire other defenders out because there's no point in tracking him, there is almost no end product.

We do not need a complete squad of world class players, why do we have to go from a terrible player to a world class player, there are levels in between - squad players should be good, first team starters should be very good or better. We have no need to have crap players in the squad- no reason whatsoever.

His stats at the top of the page say he has 23 appearances so far this season. He has also recently had call ups to the England squad. It's pretty clear reading through here that he has haters. Fact is, Mourinho plays him, LVG played him, and England called him up and played him. Not bad going that for a "crap" player.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

His stats at the top of the page say he has 23 appearances so far this season. He has also recently had call ups to the England squad. It's pretty clear reading through here that he has haters. Fact is, Mourinho plays him, LVG played him, and England called him up and played him. Not bad going that for a "crap" player.

In those 23 appearances what has he contributed, almost nothing
LvG played him, LvG is no longer here , was sacked for playing rubbish football and underachieving as a club by playing underachieving players, , Lingard is the epitomy of an LvG player . Under Mourinho his appearances fortunately are getting less and hopefully will dry up by the summer.
England have one of the worst teams in a long time and if they pick players like Lingard they will continue to get worse.

If you want such poor players to play for United then that's your choice, personally I would rather United win trophies and get back to the team we were before Moyes and LvG than play awful players just because they came through the academy.

It is nothing to do with hating him, he is a poor player and anyone who tries to pretend otherwise is either blind or a liar.

 

[edcunited1878]

He's a squad player. Very definition of it. You need players of his ilk within the squad. He can do a job on either wing, pick up the ball from center and drive forward at pace. Press and force turnovers.

No complaints. Fulfills instructions and sacrifices himself for the greater good of the team. He'll contribute for the team and will pop up with something spontaneously important, dare I say matching winning.

Who would you see as someone coming in and replacing Lingard? Pereira plays more centrally and many on here look for him to be another squad player as Schweinsteiger's in-house replacement. Lingard has outlasted Memphis. LVG didn't play Memphis. Mourinho didn't play Memphis. But both played Lingard, who arguably has less talent than Memphis.

 

[Hugh Jass]

He's a squad player. Very definition of it. You need players of his ilk within the squad. He can do a job on either wing, pick up the ball from center and drive forward at pace. Press and force turnovers.

No complaints. Fulfills instructions and sacrifices himself for the greater good of the team. He'll contribute for the team and will pop up with something spontaneously important, dare I say matching winning.

Who would you see as someone coming in and replacing Lingard? Pereira plays more centrally and many on here look for him to be another squad player as Schweinsteiger's in-house replacement. Lingard has outlasted Memphis. LVG didn't play Memphis. Mourinho didn't play Memphis. But both played Lingard, who arguably has less talent than Memphis.

This.

 

[bri2013]

In those 23 appearances what has he contributed, almost nothing
LvG played him, LvG is no longer here , was sacked for playing rubbish football and underachieving as a club by playing underachieving players, , Lingard is the epitomy of an LvG player . Under Mourinho his appearances fortunately are getting less and hopefully will dry up by the summer.
England have one of the worst teams in a long time and if they pick players like Lingard they will continue to get worse.

If you want such poor players to play for United then that's your choice, personally I would rather United win trophies and get back to the team we were before Moyes and LvG than play awful players just because they came through the academy.

It is nothing to do with hating him, he is a poor player and anyone who tries to pretend otherwise is either blind or a liar.

So, anyone disagreeing with your opinion is either blind or a liar? What a ridiculous, pompous thing to say. Really no point discussing it with you based on that. You have your opinion and I have mine. And I will leave it there because I am neither blind nor a liar.

 

[devips]

The funny thing is when Lingard plays well, and he does, quite often than not, you won't see the Haters within a mile of this forum. But let him have an indifferent game, each one of them will be crawling out of the woodwork and into this thread.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

The funny thing is when Lingard plays well, and he does, quite often than not, you won't see the Haters within a mile of this forum. But let him have an indifferent game, each one of them will be crawling out of the woodwork and into this thread.

Please stop with this haters rubbish - please tell me the last game he played well in - he crossed the ball, at last, in the WBA game and....

 

[luke511]

The funny thing is when Lingard plays well, and he does, quite often than not, you won't see the Haters within a mile of this forum. But let him have an indifferent game, each one of them will be crawling out of the woodwork and into this thread.

Jesus you really do have a soft spot for him don't you?

When a player is one of the main reasons why we aren't producing the goods in attack, criticism follows, deal with it.

 

[xplatformjedi]

Yes we could always replace our bench with better players, technically every team could, even Barcelona or Bayern. Barcelona could theoretically buy Mhikitaryan to sit on their bench.

I, too hope that the quality or our first team and bench on average can increase in quality. And yes there are games Lingard looks out of place but there are others where he doesn't. It could be the opponent's style or the players around him. Even Pogba doesn't look like a world beater in every game.

But it is a balance. The supposed United Way is to provide a platform for our own homegrown players and realistically, there will be a sacrifice in quality at some point. It then depends on the manager to squeeze the best performance out of them to complement the team. Of course, we could go the galactico way and just chase quality all around. We can certainly afford it.

It comes down to a matter of opinion. I don't think that Lingard is as good as Mata or Henrikh or Martial at all. But then you are saying that Lingard is 4th or 5th choice, and you wouldn't imagine him to play many games anyway. Just purely mathematics, a fourth choice winger plays 25% of games but you would expect a lot less if the guys above are playing consistently. Do we need a player that is much better?You could say what if all the players above get injured? It could happen but it's about probability.

I would like to know which player we could get that is much better than Lingard, and who is content to play only up to 20-25% of games with the potential to play a few more only if three people ahead of are injured for a prolonged period of time.

One of the better post I've seen on this forum.

In those 23 appearances what has he contributed, almost nothing
LvG played him, LvG is no longer here , was sacked for playing rubbish football and underachieving as a club by playing underachieving players, , Lingard is the epitomy of an LvG player . Under Mourinho his appearances fortunately are getting less and hopefully will dry up by the summer.
England have one of the worst teams in a long time and if they pick players like Lingard they will continue to get worse.

If you want such poor players to play for United then that's your choice, personally I would rather United win trophies and get back to the team we were before Moyes and LvG than play awful players just because they came through the academy.

It is nothing to do with hating him, he is a poor player and anyone who tries to pretend otherwise is either blind or a liar.

At least you qualified it with ALMOST.

What English player would you have instead of Jesse that plays the same role. Mind, you have to pick a winger with the same work rate, same cost, willing to accept the same minutes...yet is a better finisher and creator than Jesse. I'll wait for you to respond.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

One of the better post I've seen on this forum.



At least you qualified it with ALMOST.

What English player would you have instead of Jesse that plays the same role. Mind, you have to pick a winger with the same work rate, same cost, willing to accept the same minutes...yet is a better finisher and creator than Jesse. I'll wait for you to respond.

Someone who is a better creator and a better finisher than Lingard, wow, that's a difficult one seeing how many goals he creates and finishes - ummm. let me think - anybody, you, me , Fred the Red, the tea lady

 

[Dante]

Someone who is a better creator and a better finisher than Lingard, wow, that's a difficult one seeing how many goals he creates and finishes - ummm. let me think - anybody, you, me , Fred the Red, the tea lady

A goal/assist every 173 minutes. That's not bad.

 

[drdoityourself]

Especially after Mkhitaryan started playing more, Lingard's movement has shifted from being very good in my opinion, to causing the team troubles.

He goes infield too soon, the midfield becomes too congested and there is very little space to work with, it's especially bad for Zlatan and Mkhi who thrive in that.
Mata does it better, keeps the shape and works out where he needs to run.

Without his movement, there is very little to write about concerning Lingard. He just doesn't do anything you'd like a player in the United front four to do. He hasn't improved since breaking through which is very worrying.

And for those saying he's happy as a squad player and it's not easy to find someone like that....I'd just like to add that since Mhkitaryan won his place back it's the first time since Lingard broke through he's actually become a squad player, he was basically a starter since breaking through early last season for van Gaal and picked more often than benched early months of Jose's reign.
So we have no way of knowing if he's happy being a bit part player, it's too early for that.