[CG1010]

How long do we have to wait for this potential to show other than the odd glimpse. People remind us that he's been at United for 17 years - you would think after all that time at United other than his loan spells he would have improved considerably by now.
If he turns out to be a good (doesn't have to be world class) player for us all well and good but I just don't see how that will happen and he's had plenty of opportunity.

Of course he should have shown it for the first team when he was 7 also. No? Then why is his 17 years at United relevant? He has done reasonably well for the first team (in spurts!) to be thought of as a squad player for future. That is all I am saying.

 

[Kag]

I get the point but he didn't make a single senior start under Ferguson, in fact I'm not sure he ever played under him.

For me it's that he's a United player, in his mid 20s and the expectation bar still seems be as if he's fresh from the maternity ward and someone's slapped a pair of boots on him. I accept he's a decent squad player and have no wish to see him go. But on the same time I'm not going to be in awe of average performances like an over enthusiastic parent of an obese child who's managed to throw a ball.

He should be judged with his peers not made exceptions for because he comes from the academy. If you do that then he's easily one of the weakest players in the team. Does that mean it's fine to hate him? No. But it does mean we should stop overstating how good his performances are because of some loyalty to the traditions of the club we think he represents. He's a player, not the living embodiment of the Busby Babes. It should be okay to say "he's quite average" in comparison with most others around him. People are afraid to IMO.

Spot on, this. It happens with Fellaini and Young, too. There's a general awareness that they're largely shite, and they receive praise for the most rudimentary of performance. If Fellaini keeps the ball ticking over and puts himself about a bit then he's had a good game. If Young over hits a few crosses to the back post and looks dangerous then he's been great. Lingard isn't expected to score goals or consistently make a difference and I don't think that's fair on the other players we have. Mkhitaryan, Martial, Rashford, as well as the likes of Herrera and Pogba in midfield, are all expected to deliver in every game they play. The bar is set higher for these guys.

 

[kr0nix]

I'd like to see him play 90 minutes against Pool, if only for the chance of a celebration with Pogba that will seriously wind up the Scousers.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Of course he should have shown it for the first team when he was 7 also. No? Then why is his 17 years at United relevant? He has done reasonably well for the first team (in spurts!) to be thought of as a squad player for future. That is all I am saying.

I haven't said he should have been brilliant from day one, but after 17 years of learning the trade here, if he was going to be a good enough player for us, he should have shown it by now other than a handful of good appearances. If he was 19 or 20 there'd be plenty of scope for improvement and not so much criticism, but he isn't.
I'd say even last season's performances were better than this season so don't see any progress there. This season in the games he has started our record is W7 D3 L2, without him starting it is W14 D3 L3.

This subsequent debate started because of the suggestion of the new salary and contract. We don't know whether it's true or not, but just if it was true it would make him unsellable and be paid higher than better players who are regular first teamers.

He should not be a starter, if he is willing to be a low paid squad player to make a few appearances off the bench and start a few cup games against lower opposition, then much less of a problem but he should never start ahead of Mkhi, Martial, Mata, Rashford or even Rooney in his position if at least two of those are available.
Any of those mentioned get on the ball and you're expecting them to try something, a dribble a cross, a surge into the box, something even if it doesn't come off.
Lingard gets on the ball and 8 or 9 times out of 10 he'll try the simple option, no risk which usually involves a pass backwards. Exactly what LVG seems to have brainwashed into him.
Remember Mourinho a month or two back mentioning that some members of the team needed adapt more to his style, I think Lingard's struggled the most although he has more freedom of movement, that hasn't led to him being more effective except the one cross he made to Zlatan which we'll be reminded about forever.

I hope he does brilliantly and proves me wrong, I have severe doubts but all I care about is the success of United

 

[Robbie Boy]

I feel he's stagnated since last season which is a shame. I expected so much more from his this season.

 

[kundalini]

Hit the bar

 

[NinjaFletch]

Joint third worst rated United player in a game where he came on, looked bright, and hit the bar...

The hatred of Lingard is quite bizarre.

 

[Ephrem]

It clearly shows some people wont accept him . Their mind and brain don't work when it comes to Lingard .

 

[izec]

He should do that more often, that bit of play was great.

 

[Lawman]

It clearly shows some people wont accept him . Their mind and brain don't work when it comes to Lingard .

Yet you are subjective? Face it Lingard is one of the poorest players in the squad.

 

[AR87]

Yet you are subjective? Face it Lingard is one of the poorest players in the squad.

Probably but he played well today in his brief cameo. Him making runs off the balls was useful in a match where we were a bit too static in the 2nd half and weren't clever enough to open them up with our movement.

 

[Ephrem]

Yet you are subjective? Face it Lingard is one of the poorest players in the squad.

Did I said he is not ? He is a squad player and did well today . But still he is our third worst player according to the cafe . Thats just blind hate rather than properly criticizing his performance..

 

[Robbie Boy]

Did I said he is not ? He is a squad player and did well today . But still he is our third worst player according to the cafe . Thats just blind hate rather than properly criticizing his performance..

Think you're massively overreacting here. It's only ratings, I mean it's hardly that big of a deal. It's not as if this thread was bumped with people complaining about him.

I think you're looking for something that isn't there really.

 

[Devil may care]

He was ok, decent strike that hit the bar.

 

[pocco]

It was a good hit, but he has a good one every now and then. The rest of the time he's missing piss easy chances.

 

[Scholesy]

No wonder we are 6th when we have Lingard coming on and Martial unselected.

 

[Lawman]

No wonder we are 6th when we have Lingard coming on and Martial unselected.

That's hard to fathom to be fair

 

[Loublaze]

No wonder we are 6th when we have Lingard coming on and Martial unselected.

Bullshit as usual from you

 

[Loublaze]

Looked very bright when he came on today. Should be starting against Hull

 

[OzKangarooney]

Best sub for sure, got into the game instantly, hit the post, tee'd up rooney with the header, helped up the tempo. Hate how people do ratings based on how they feel about a player

 

[Jaybomb]

Not sure what people have against him. He is a better winger than Martial in my opinion.

Martial is a good inside forward but as an old fashioned winger that runs up and down and crosses the ball in? Jesse is better for that role in my opinion. We need that in some games. Today was one of them.

 

[King.of.Red]

Best sub for sure, got into the game instantly, hit the post, tee'd up rooney with the header, helped up the tempo. Hate how people do ratings based on how they feel about a player

agree. he played well as a sub against stoke, 7/10 performance I think. I like his movement. just a shame, his long shot hit the bar, it was great shot.

 

[NK86]

Not sure what people have against him. He is a better winger than Martial in my opinion.

Martial is a good inside forward but as an old fashioned winger that runs up and down and crosses the ball in? Jesse is better for that role in my opinion. We need that in some games. Today was one of them.

No he is not a better winger. He hardly stays on the wing and is always coming inside while crowding the place. I genuinely doubt you have seen either Martial or Lingard play if that is your assessment.

Lingard is far from a winger for us anyway. He floats around in pockets of space and tries to get into goal scoring positions. Martial stays wide and actually tries to beat his man there. Amazing how you have got this the other way round.

 

[Jaybomb]

No he is not a better winger. He hardly stays on the wing and is always coming inside while crowding the place. I genuinely doubt you have seen either Martial or Lingard play if that is your assessment.

Lingard is far from a winger for us anyway. He floats around in pockets of space and tries to get into goal scoring positions. Martial stays wide and actually tries to beat his man there. Amazing how you have got this the other way round.

Lingard can hit better crosses than Martial and offers more workrate down the flank.

 

[ti vu]

Was very good coming on. Should have more play time this game. Mourinho really messed up big time today with his tactic. Fellaini on his on did not have a bad game , but this game didn't require his role. We need that extra attacker to make run behind Stoke, movement in pocket of space. Rashford, Rooney and especially Lingard offered that coming on. The subs was held back for too long. Fortunate enough that it worked in the end and we saved a point and the unbeaten run.

Lingard was unlucky with his effort. Was a nice shot.

 

[shield]

Played well. Came on and added much needed energy. Very good shot. Unlucky to hit the post.

 

[Lawman]

Was very good coming on. Should have more play time this game. Mourinho really messed up big time today with his tactic. Fellaini on his on did not have a bad game , but this game didn't require his role. We need that extra attacker to make run behind Stoke, movement in pocket of space. Rashford, Rooney and especially Lingard offered that coming on. The subs was held back for too long. Fortunate enough that it worked in the end and we saved a point and the unbeaten run.

Lingard was unlucky with his effort. Was a nice shot.

Hard to agree with this, Fellaini was playing well and doing what he does. When he was on we were creating a lot of chances. It was not his poor finishing that was at fault.
When he went off Stoke were defending a lead so it was completely a different game when Lingard came on (I would like to see the general opinion of his performance if we didn't get the late goal) as I thought both Rooney and Lingard weakened us, Rashford made the impact in my opinion and it makes me think Martial from the start should have happened but obviously we are not privy to the reasons why not.

 

[Verminator]

Hard to agree with this, Fellaini was playing well and doing what he does. When he was on we were creating a lot of chances. It was not his poor finishing that was at fault.
When he went off Stoke were defending a lead so it was completely a different game when Lingard came on (I would like to see the general opinion of his performance if we didn't get the late goal) as I thought both Rooney and Lingard weakened us, Rashford made the impact in my opinion and it makes me think Martial from the start should have happened but obviously we are not privy to the reasons why not.

I don't understand the highlighted bit. Stoke were defending an early lead up until the 94th minute.

 

[ti vu]

Hard to agree with this, Fellaini was playing well and doing what he does. When he was on we were creating a lot of chances. It was not his poor finishing that was at fault.
When he went off Stoke were defending a lead so it was completely a different game when Lingard came on (I would like to see the general opinion of his performance if we didn't get the late goal) as I thought both Rooney and Lingard weakened us, Rashford made the impact in my opinion and it makes me think Martial from the start should have happened but obviously we are not privy to the reasons why not.

You got me wrong. I am not blaming his Fellaini, but Mourinho's use of physical no 10 role instead of a technical attacker with pace to run behind Stoke defenders.

Stoke always aim from a scrappy game from the start, but they couldn't create much if anything at all bar the fluky chance. This game with Fellaini's no 10 role. Zlatan dropped back more, but had a bad game. With Zlatan drop back we need more runners and more movement. Instead we stuck with Fellaini making obvious run centrally (understandably due to his role and ability). Mata drifted inside too much. Mkhi sticks wide more but also prefer cuting inside leaving us with Valencia as primary wide player. Blind couldn't get up the pitch quick enough nor has the pace to beat Johnson in foot race.

Disagree. Rooney and Lingard definitely help opening up the right wing more after Rashford did with the left. We transited to final third better. Before we're slow down by Stoke pressing with the lack movement in the final third. Enough bodies (Fellaini contributed) waiting for final ball, but lack movement in transiting.

 

[NK86]

Lingard can hit better crosses than Martial and offers more workrate down the flank.

Lingard does not hit better crosses. One beautiful cross doesn't prove that. By the account even Rojo hits wonderful crosses so he must be a better winger.

Lingard is as far from a proper winger as can be. He hardly stays out wide unlike Martial. Plus workrate does not mean he is a better winger. I am really confused here as to why the points you made justify the earlier post of yours.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Think he needs start more often in these sort of games. His movement against a similar team (WBA) was one of the reasons we beat them with ease.

 

[Lawman]

I don't understand the highlighted bit. Stoke were defending an early lead up until the 94th minute.

Jose picked the team at 0-0 and when Jesse came on we had changed our tactics accordingly

 

[Paul the Wolf]

For those who are worried about his rating, I haven't seen the full match yet and have not yet rated anybody - will rate each player on his merit after I have watched the full match.
No-one gets over-rated or under-rated by me just because of their name.

I must say though when I see comments like "Lingard hits better crosses" and "Lingard should start on Thursday" - just NO

 

[Rado_N]

For those who are worried about his rating, I haven't seen the full match yet and have not yet rated anybody - will rate each player on his merit after I have watched the full match.
No-one gets over-rated or under-rated by me just because of their name.

I must say though when I see comments like "Lingard hits better crosses" and "Lingard should start on Thursday" - just NO

Are you saying you think there's people eagerly anticipating your ratings of players from the game?

 

[King.of.Red]

Think he needs start more often in these sort of games. His movement against a similar team (WBA) was one of the reasons we beat them with ease.

I think Lingard plays better as sub than starter and it's his clever movement that can become a weapon for Jose in these sort of games especially after the stamina of our opponents have been reduced.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Are you saying you think there's people eagerly anticipating your ratings of players from the game?

I shouldn't think so, but I note a few comments about people deliberately under-marking Lingard, perhaps he gets low ratings because he's not a very good player.

 

[Rado_N]

I shouldn't think so, but I note a few comments about people deliberately under-marking Lingard, perhaps he gets low ratings because he's not a very good player.

There's also a lot of people who are blinded by preconceived notions as is obvious from reading this thread.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

There's also a lot of people who are blinded by preconceived notions as is obvious from reading this thread.

There are a lot of people blinded by preconceived notions from both sides of the argument, some say that he can't do anything right and some say that he can't do anything wrong.

 

[Robbie Boy]

There are a lot of people blinded by preconceived notions from both sides of the argument, some say that he can't do anything right and some say that he can't do anything wrong.

Yup.

 

[Verminator]

Jose picked the team at 0-0 and when Jesse came on we had changed our tactics accordingly

But the quote is not about the start of the game.

When he went off Stoke were defending a lead so it was completely a different game when Lingard came on.

Not that I really care.