We excelled with players like Fletcher and O'Shea because their lack of quality was compensated by the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo.
Even an out of form Martial is better than Lingard.
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We excelled with players like Fletcher and O'Shea because their lack of quality was compensated by the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo.
Even an out of form Martial is better than Lingard.
I think you're being harsh here. I think O'Shea and certainly Fletcher brought qualities of their own, though to be fair were obviously playing second fiddle to our top quality players.
Also Lingard's cross for Zlatan's first goal against West Brom is better than anything Martial's done in a good while.
Do you wanr Martial to start the next match? As Lingard did nothing vs Sunderland.
I think with both players in peak form Martial is better, no question. However I think Martial's been a largely out of form this year and needs some good man management to get him back on track.
As for who plays next time I'm pretty unconcerned either way. Both will get plenty of game time in the coming weeks and both have more to give us (Martial much more so than Lingard of course).
I think people are a little prone to the extremities of both sides of the Lingard argument. I also think a lot of people have differing expectations, and thus hold 'what he actually brings/does' to different metrics.
To me, he is a very valuable squad player who's willing to sit on the bench until called upon. He does a few things well, but nothing especially well. His attributes can make him useful for very particular situations. For example in yesterday's game, we knew that Sunderland will sit back for prolonged periods. Rather than utilising a direct 'beat your man and attack the space' dribbler (ala Martial, who also hasn't been in good form) against a deep sitting stubborn defence, Lingard was used to run around, move the ball here to there - recycle possession for others so to speak. In the second half as things got less congested, it was Martial time.
Against in-form West Brom away, it was his ability and willingness to run in behind (and everywhere else) that made him more useful than a significantly less mobile Mata. If Mhky was fit he'd obvs go in ahead of both - he sort of infuses what both players bring anyway.
He's not winning any Ballon D'ors, but he's a very good squad player that has his uses.
To me, he is a very valuable squad player who's willing to sit on the bench until called upon. He does a few things well, but nothing especially well. His attributes can make him useful for very particular situations. For example in yesterday's game, we knew that Sunderland will sit back for prolonged periods. Rather than utilising a direct 'beat your man and attack the space' dribbler (ala Martial, who also hasn't been in good form) against a deep sitting stubborn defence, Lingard was used to run around, move the ball here to there - recycle possession for others so to speak. In the second half as things got less congested, it was Martial time.
Against in-form West Brom away, it was his ability and willingness to run in behind (and everywhere else) that made him more useful than a significantly less mobile Mata. If Mhky was fit he'd obvs go in ahead of both - he sort of infuses what both players bring anyway.
He's not winning any Ballon D'ors, but he's a very good squad player that has his uses.
I think most people accept him as a squad player and haven't an issue with him in that role. I don't. I'm happy for him to be on the bench, starting infrequently depending on opponents, competition, injuries, rotation etc. You need players like Lingard in the squad. I think it just rubs people up the wrong way when they observe a poor performance and get told that it wasn't a poor performance because of stat X, Y and Z. Or when it's suggested that Lingard looking poor is no different to someone else looking poor, despite the fact that someone else has an entire career as a top-level, quality player at domestic, continental and international level for years behind him.
My average rating for him this season on that banner at the top btw is 7.5, not including the last game which I haven't marked yet. So far from being too harsh on him, I like him more than most of you ******s
My average rating for him this season on that banner at the top btw is 7.5, not including the last game which I haven't marked yet. So far from being too harsh on him, I like him more than most of you ******s
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Guessing you give him a 10 every time he assists or scores in a game? Which still leaves me puzzled since that happens very rarely(0 goals, 2 assists in 10 PL games, 3 goals, 0 assists in 6 CS,EL,LC games)I think most people accept him as a squad player and haven't an issue with him in that role. I don't. I'm happy for him to be on the bench, starting infrequently depending on opponents, competition, injuries, rotation etc. You need players like Lingard in the squad. I think it just rubs people up the wrong way when they observe a poor performance and get told that it wasn't a poor performance because of stat X, Y and Z. Or when it's suggested that Lingard looking poor is no different to someone else looking poor, despite the fact that someone else has an entire career as a top-level, quality player at domestic, continental and international level for years behind him.
My average rating for him this season on that banner at the top btw is 7.5, not including the last game which I haven't marked yet. So far from being too harsh on him, I like him more than most of you ******s
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He'll be a brilliant player when he's 47
Reckon he'll need to reach 60 at least for composure and control to set in.
Couple of big swings and misses for humour there.
He's been good, not sure what the fuss is. I'm really glad to have him around as a backup/squad player.
Once Fletcher was actually ready to start for us he played well and at his peak from like 2009-2011 he was very, very good.
O'Shea, though, sure.
If Martial had Lingard's workrate and attitude, he would be nailed on for a spot in the starting XI every week.
I'm surprised you don't like Lingard. He's technically very sound.
Think some of the criticism for the game against Sunderland is over the top, And I have been a huge critic of the guy. Am I convinced he should be at the club for years to come? Not entirely. I think as a squad player he is fine but should not be starting the amount of games he does. At least we have Mhki back fit again now as the gulf in quality in comparison is vast.
He is a solid 6/10 player who works really hard on the pitch and will pop up with occasional goals and assists. He seems to be happy to be an option from the bench. I don't see what the problem is here.
This poster thinks every player who starts for United should be at a Barcelona or Real Madrid starting 11 player level. Im not surprised he doesn't rate a solid backup player
Stop being a Lingard apologist and a 'true fan' badge chaser, he did nothing all game and shackled the entire team from playing. Lingard hate rhetoric
Shackled the entire team. Mental.
You know all players have bad games right? And he wasn't even bad, just didn't do much. So much drama.
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Didn't see the Sunderland game but he looked ok in the highlights.
Absolutely! Just watched the 1st half sober for the first time, and he really impressed me. Always takes on his man, goes forward and most often finds teammates with those small, clever passes.
Yeah well stop hating our local lads you shit fan I bet you're from Asia or America making idiot comments like that.
TBF there are many British based fans making shit comments
Lingard as a squad player brings more to the team now than Rooney and Rooney earns $300k a week. Let that sink in.
Something I've heard many people say about Lingard is that "you'd never see Barca, Bayern or Madrid using a player like this, we need better quality to be at their level". Funny thing is the somewhat debatable best team in the world at the moment Real Madrid have who I would consider as literally the Spanish equivilent of Lingard; Lucas Vazquez, playing consistent minutes over players like James Rodriguez.
I think the argument is that a player like Lingard wouldn't be a first eleven player for them, as he has been with LVG and the beginning of this season. Which is fair enough really, Vasquez isn't first choice for Madrid. He's playing consistently because Bale is out with a longterm injury at the moment.
Vazquez was getting solid gametime when Bale was healthy though wasnt he? Although correct me if im wrong. He played in the CL final too. I dont think Jesse is a first 11 player for us either, I think Mourinho uses him situationally with varying results (WBA vs City) and wouldn't ever start if we were fielding plainly our best team.
I do understand the argument, I just think Lingard is a good squad player and I'm surprised people get so heated over him.
I agree with this, but currently we aren't as settled as Real Madrid are, and the players who should be taking Lingard's place aren't consistent.
We've seen an improvement in Mkhi, some glimpses from Mata and not that much from Martial - until these players are playing well every single week Lingard is going to continue to get minutes, as he should.
Competition is healthy.
But is there any serious problem with Lingard starting over Mkhi whislt Mkhi is coming back from injury? Lingard and Martial dont really compete for the same position (even if he starts over him).
Long term he wont be a first choice starter, but with the games coming thick and fast, he will start games as rotation will be needed.
Long term he wont be a first choice starter, but with the games coming thick and fast, he will start games as rotation will be needed.
The Lingard criticism is so over the top. He's a good squad player and nothing more. If Zlatan or Pogba or Herrera or Mkhi had slipped in that ball that backheel which put Ander in on goal people would be creaming themselves over how genius it was. In Lingard's case he gets flogged for not having end product in 1 game a week after playing the ball of the season in to Zlatan which gave him a goal on a silver platter.
Squad players aren't going to light things up every time they play. That's why they're squad players and why we expect Mkhi, when fully fit, and Martial and Rashford, when on form, to start over the likes of Lingard and to some degree Mata. That doesn't mean Lingard is shite and isn't "good enough", just that he's not as good as the players we're expecting to produce at a starting XI level.
Squad players aren't going to light things up every time they play. That's why they're squad players and why we expect Mkhi, when fully fit, and Martial and Rashford, when on form, to start over the likes of Lingard and to some degree Mata. That doesn't mean Lingard is shite and isn't "good enough", just that he's not as good as the players we're expecting to produce at a starting XI level.
Who here other than Scholsey is criticizing Lingard ?
Nah, if you're not from greater Manchester sod off
To be fair there’s plenty here who think he’s not ”United material”, can’t be arsed to find them all though. At least @SirScholes (I can see a pattern here) thinks he’s useless.
He's alright as a squad player but no chance would you want Lingard starting a significant amount of games like he did last year. He isn't good enough for that, as we saw last season. Thankfully we have a miles better player in Mkhitaryan this season.
I don't hate the guy, he has his uses even if they are few. I just feel like if he wasn't an academy product most people wouldn't defend him as much despite not delivering or performing to a high enough level. If it was Memphis playing like that he would get slaughtered on here.
Nobody is suggesting him to be a first team player.
The point is that we have a squad for a reason, so in times of injury, lack of fitness, loss of form etc Lingard is a capable back up that can come in when required.
Our very own manager does. Seems to think Lingard is better than Martial. No wonder we are 6th
Are you this repetitive in real life?
Quite likely people who are deluded enough to think clubs actually have world class players at every position.
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