Those two managers maybe understand football a bit more than you and me.
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- 6
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I never said I hope he plays poorly. I said his performances will prove his worth, and if they are anything like the past month and most of last season it won't amount to alot.
You're clearly refusing to acknowledge Lingard's contribution. Cleverley was mostly a creative player, a playmaker and attack minded player. In his first few England games he was played as an attacking midfielder and he picked up impressive stats against minnows like Moldova and San Marino. I remember people bemoaning the fact that Hodgson and Moyes played him in deeper positions in midfield, claiming he was being 'held back'.
His stock plummeted when he failed to make a mark under Moyes and even worse under LVG who simply didn't rate him and loaned him out at 25. Lingard is only in his second full season at United as a first team regular (and he only got regular starts in the second half of 2015/16 when LVG gave up on Memphis) yet he's already done more than Cleverley did in his four seasons as a United first team player including his loan to Villa.
Not very odd. Cleverley signed that contract under Fergie who would've probably been happy to let him see it out like he let Anderson do his. LVG came in and immediately sent him on loan to Villa with a view to a permanent deal. Mourinho has sanctioned Lingard's deal so he clearly rates him unless something else happens
Lingard and Cleverley same fight, both sh***
Just hope that Jesse stays on the stands with his insta and making videos here and there.
Always amaze me how he's a professional footballer since he's so limited
Just hope that Jesse stays on the stands with his insta and making videos here and there.
Always amaze me how he's a professional footballer since he's so limited
It's an extremely odd way to argue actually. I couldn't care less who the deal was signed under, the point is that it makes no difference whatsoever and doesn't mean that Lingard will be here long-term. If you think a player signing a new deal means anything in this day and age, then you're extremely naïve.
You have no idea what you're talking about. The mighty Loublaze who once made 114 posts in a Tyler Blackett thread banging on about how great he is, clearly knows more than us idiots who can't see how brilliant Lingard is.
Far from naive. Im under no illusions about how things are in this new era. A contract extension still shows how much a club value a player at that moment even though things can change very quickly
It still means feck all and it's funny that poster brought up Cleverley and how he's gone, when Lingard is now in a similar position (new contract but still loads to prove) at a very similar age. Lingard's entourage are in their rights to look for a new deal as he's pretty much a first team player now.
Lingard still has a long way to go to win over a lot of people and rightly so. If you're happy with what he produces then I'm genuinely baffled.
I was wrong about Blankett and I could be wrong about Lingard, but most of you people are dismissing his contribution so far. Lingard is starting in big games though, and under two different managers. I think his longterm prospects at United are much brighter, obviously now.
It means fvck all that a manager and club sanction an improved four year double your money contract? It's a vote of confidence FFS. As I said, things can change quickly, but an improved contract will always be a taken as a vote of confidence in a player and an inidicator of where they stand with the club as far as importance goes at that moment in time
I can't take your opinions seriously since your staunch defensive of Blackett. A player who somehow contrived to look clueless in the SPL.
In all seriousness though; what Lingard has shown as an attacking player for us isn't near enough. The argument that others haven't been good enough is irrelevant, for me. Sometimes I look at Lingard and think "yeah grand, he can be a good squad player" and other times, he looks beyond horrendous. His bottom level is far too low.
No one knows what will happen with him but I'm just baffled at anyone who believes what he has shown is good enough for us, going forward we need better than him unless he starts showing serious consistency.
Totally agree you're spot on Robbie Boy I hope Lingard comes good but performance after performance he just proves he's average at best. Not good enough and will have a career level of Tom Cleverly Darren Gibson (Good career but not United first 11 quality long term)
So I was wrong about a player, big deal. I was also a big supporter of Fletcher and Carrick during periods of their careers at OT when they were scapegoated and deemed not good enough for United, Smalling too. I don't see what bringing up old debates about different players has anything to do with Lingard
I think we all know Lingard won't ever be Ronaldo, and perhaps he shouldn't be a star player for us, but he's good enough to be a squad player - can fill all the attacking options to a decent standard, loves the club and works hard every game. Yes he needs to work on his final ball and getting into goal scoring positions, but every club need players like him. O'Shea was the defensive Lingard in my eyes, and he did alright through his career.
I think he's attacking a series of posts about Tyler Blackett right? Not sure how you see that as a personal attack.
Calling someone an "insufferable arse" though....
Lingard is here to stay in the short-term immediate future.
He's not the only player who's playing badly, nor is he our worst performer for the season so far.
So while criticism of his performances where warranted is natural, criticising him just because you personally dislike him is pointless.
If he puts in terrible performances even when we're doing well - then yes, pitchforks should be out and he should be sold as soon as possible.
However we're not at that point, and therefore as a squad player he's fine. Mourinho wants him to stay, so how about we support our players?
He's not the only player who's playing badly, nor is he our worst performer for the season so far.
So while criticism of his performances where warranted is natural, criticising him just because you personally dislike him is pointless.
If he puts in terrible performances even when we're doing well - then yes, pitchforks should be out and he should be sold as soon as possible.
However we're not at that point, and therefore as a squad player he's fine. Mourinho wants him to stay, so how about we support our players?
I think he's attacking a series of posts about Tyler Blackett right? Not sure how you see that as a personal attack.
Calling someone an "insufferable arse" though....
Shamwow and Loublaze go hand in hand, The Lingard brothers. I wouldn't even rise to it mate.
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Edit: deleting this and other posts
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Yeah as I said in the second paragraph "in all seriousness". I wasn't being entirely serious would you believe. I just happen to remember you being a staunch Blackett fan.
You and that other poster get way too heated in here. feck me.
I think he's attacking a series of posts about Tyler Blackett right? Not sure how you see that as a personal attack.
Calling someone an "insufferable arse" though....
Aye. Reported the post. It was extremely OTT. Not sure why he gets so worked up in here. Odd.
I love Lingard. Like other's said, he's the modern O'Shea or Phil Neville.
Aye, doesn't make a fuss and puts his all in with the occasional bit of magic.
Yeh. He might not all that, but every big clubs need this type of player on their squad. And he's still young and might surprise us in the future.
I think this is why he's so easy to scapegoat.
He still seems to be developing so it would be a shame not to see where he can go with it. Especially considering he's already been putting in some good, match winning (and cup winning!) performances.
I have a few friends who go home and away watching Derby. They never rated Lingard in the Championship.
Good football brain, can't cross, can't dribble, finishing generally poor apart from the odd moment
Good football brain, can't cross, can't dribble, finishing generally poor apart from the odd moment
It's funny to think that the only piece of silverware that we have won since Fergie is largely down to Jesse Lingard.
Yeah he was fairly poor during that loan spell. I remember Ince looked flights ahead of him. Poor is probably harsh but he didn't stand out.
Cleverley genuinely looked great on loan in the Championship when he was 18/19 and he didn't even turn out to be good enough.
Lingard has definitely improved since then but nowhere near enough.
he's invisible today! not good enough
His running and space creation were badly missed tonight..
Really funny that. And no he wouldn't of made a difference tonight before anyone suggests it.
His major contribution to the team, something that loads of idiots on here don't understand,is creating space for other players - tonight there was nothing of the sort from any of our expensively built team, so i beg to disagree.
The other factor that he brings is passion, which was also missing.
Ah the old 'creates space for others' reasoning. If that is all he can contribute though then what good is that? The problem is we have a serious lack of creativity in the side, something he has little of. And players in league one have passion, doesn't mean they should be starting for United either.
All our creative players need space - did you watch the match tonight - team stayed narrow and the centre of the pitch was just blocked off. In these situations you need to create space by drawing other players out. Lingard does this incredibly well - just about every pundit from India to Seattle has seen this but it seems beyond your grasp. As for passion, how much of that did you see on the pitch tonight ? & who plays in league one ? You a PSG supporter ?
We did play very narrow tonight and that's why I'm not sure that Lingard would of made any difference at all. If a player like Mkhitaryan was rarely involved in the game then what chance does Lingard have? Even if Lingard was making his famous runs and creating space, if they were out wide it would of been pointless because we rarely used the width at all. That is where we went wrong tonight tactically IMO, well that and the fact we never actually have anyone in the box as Zlatan comes and stays far too deep and Rooney is too slow to get there.
PSG fan? Where does that come from
Nvm
Thanks for the in depth analysis.
Didnt get a chance to watch the match tonight but sounds like he might have made a difference.
Thats like saying Lee Martin was Fergies greatest player!
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