No where near good enough to be a first team player. The fact that we are accommodating players of this caliber is one of the reasons why our fall from grace has been so quick. Squad player at best
14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 5
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
Lingard was playing with a midfield of Pogba and Herrera with Mata and Zlatan yet he failed to contribute despite our attack absolutely battering Burnley.
For all the misses Ibra had (and he got criticised for them) he was still vital to our creative force alongside Mata and Pogba. Lingard failed to show any ounce of creativity in such set up and free flowing football.
Lingaaaard!!!
Apart from the old 'moves around and creates space' what other attributes do you mean? Generally curious...
And no he wouldn't get into Spurs team either. All their attacking players are much better and more creative.
No one has been comparing Park and Mata. But comparison between Park and Lingard is always here. It's a lazy comparison, since Park was a much better player. He has no glaring upside to his attacking game so let's just call him the second coming of Park Ji-Sung.
Of course Lingard has some accountability in United's form, he's been a regular starter for over a year.
The FA Cup was of course good, but prior to that he didn't score or assist for like 15 games. In a front four that's unacceptable.
What's more painful is that we have players to actually fill us on the wings in Martial and Miki yet Lingard somehow manage to squeeze a spot over these guys ( least so far over Miki, Martial is injured).
Lingard is technically average and lack creativity. As part if our attacking force, creativity should be expected from him but he's got none, coupled with his nonexistent end product and we're just wasting time.
WE can't have both wings be unproductive and lack creativity and final pass in Lingard and Rashford, that's clearly too much.
Who is saying he should be a starter long term?
I think the general consensus is that he's a good squad option to have, academy product, works hard and when he does play well he has the ability to score important goals.
He hasn't been keeping anyone out of the team except maybe Mhki but a combination of injuries and lack of fitness have kept him sidelined, it's only the fans that have called for a witch hunt.
Martial, Rashford have been just as ineffective lately too but they don't get anywhere near as much vitriol.
And those attributes becomes useless if one doesn't have any end products. For all the good movements to find himself in good space and his energy, he'll simply fail to make the right pass and everything go tits up from there.
So what's the point of all those movements to find himself in favorable positions then predictably mess everything up because he lacks the skill required to be a threat in the final phase of an attack?
Some players play because they do a job. It was the case with Ashley Young for a long time on here. For me the job of a wide player is to create and score goals. Part of the reason why if you look back since 1990 we have gone from Kanchelskis > Beckham > Ronaldo > Park > Valencia > Lingard
One of the main reasons of the decline is the standard of half the team
Judging by the fact that he seemingly cannot be criticized without being labelled 'a hater' or 'witch hunt' you would think he was the next coming of Ronaldo not Kieran Richardson which is closer to reality.
He has kept Mkhi and Ashley Young out of the team who both bring more to the table. Even Memphis on his day is much better then Lingard although as things currently stand I can see why Lingard is preferred out of those two.
Martial and Rashford don't get 'as much' stick because they are much more capable players and have shown that alot more consistently then Lingard. With those 2 you feel it's just a bad spell of form whereas with Lingard you question whether he actually has the ability to be good enough. We know Martial and Rashford are.
He is being judged as a squad player, yet he plays almost every game. We're talking about him as a starter because he is one.
Martial and Rashford are 20 and 19, Lingard will be 24 next month. So of course there is more patience as their potential is sky high. Frankly I don't see Lingard improving a whole lot. He's done well with what he's got, but he's heavily limited.
So you're going to overlook his brilliant header that Heaton saved? If that alone is not some kind of contribution I don't know what it is. He also forced one other save out of Heaton in the second half with a low drive. If one of those went in this thread would have a totally different look. 1:49 and 2:46. You can also see in the rest of the video that he attempted many probing passes and was a constant outlet down the middle as a more narrow wide player. He wasn't a passenger
Mkhi as I stated before has done absolutely nothing of note to be considered a starter, his pre-season ranged from average to anonymous, his appearance against City was terrible, and he's been injured and lacking in match fitness since then.
Young did a great job against Liverpool, but ultimately he's 31, doesn't have great link up play, his crosses are pretty terrible and he plays better on the left than on the right.
Martial and Rashford may have more potential but to say that they've been playing well enough to avoid criticism is simply playing favourites.
Lingard has proved he impacts games, gets assists & can score goals, no he doesn't do it often enough to appease the people who don't like anything he does, but he does it just as frequently as everyone else in the team except maybe Mata who's probably our most consistent attacking player.
He plays almost every game because Mkhi has been injured, Mata rotates and isn't as effective on the right. Young hardly plays on the right. And Martial & Rashford have been on the left.
Yes he's almost 24 but this is his second full season in the PL along with Martial. Plus, not every player develops in the same way, some peak early, others peak later. So using age as a barometer to measure potential isn't that effective.
Until Mkhi gets match fit and can dislodge others I don't see why Lingard should be a scape goat.
And that's exactly the problem we've faced the past 3 years. We're playing players doing a job and people are content with our wingers, players who are supposed to be part of our creative force to merely produce the odd assists or goals in and there ad long as they ran a lot it's all good.
The Lingard case is the perfect example of how people have gotten confused these past few years and mistakenly thinking a winger job is to be some workhorse rather than a part of our creative force.
Lingard put shit numbers assists or goal wise and people are finding his contribution acceptable because he's academy this and that.
He's played 50 games for us and has somehow been a regular in our side but what are the numbers he gets in return? Absolutely mediocre. unacceptable.
We can't have both wingers not delivering numbers for us, it's impairing us and making us heavily rely on the creativity to solely come from the middle with useless wingers in Lingard and Rashford.
The fact that he's made 50 appearances for us with the mediocre numbers he produce in return is all anyone need to see to know why we're struggling making ground.
Get creative players on the pitch, show some patience with them and things will start looking up again.
We should stop this unecessary nonsense of playing players because they merely work hard but lack skills as in points players like Lingard, Fellaini, Rashford(on the wing) playing over the likes of Martial, Miki, Carrick etc.
It was a minimal contribution against a side we dominated. One or two incidents, from a front four player in a game United bombarded Burnley with attacks, isn't helping his case.
He often does well in the early build up, but when the onus is on him to actually create a goal, he consistently lets me down. Like 0:19 and 2:35.
He had two fine attempts on goal saved and was part of the build up in a few promising situations, including one where Zlatan missed a sitter. What else did you want him to do? He put in a good shift. I don't even see why you're blaming him for 2:35, it was the best option but the defender made a good interception. The hatred is real @Santoryo Martial is not being overlooked as you're trying to make it seem. He's been in and out with injuries and his early season form was terrible. Are you going to at least acknowledge Lingard's contribution against Burnley? Minimal or not. On another day he might have got two goals with his two attempts on goal.
Also anyone who thinks Memphis would be a better starter seriously is just talking rubbish at that point.
When was the last time Memphis had a good game for us? In fact when was the last time he scored? Or got an assist? A shot on target maybe?
When was the last time Memphis had a good game for us? In fact when was the last time he scored? Or got an assist? A shot on target maybe?
And as to those bringing in Martial to try and excuse Lingard mediocrity I'd have to simply say you lots are straw grasping.
We know for a fact that Martial is good and can put in numbers. Last year as a winger he scored 17 goals and got 11 assists. That's something I'd expect a United winger to bring to the table. Creativity and end product.
Lingard on the other hand has never come close to putting in respectable numbers even for a mid table team let alone a club the size of Man United.
If he can't deliver neither goals not assists, basically lacking both creativity and end product, what are we playing him for? To run a lot and feck up any decent dangerous threat going forward?
So just because he scores the odd goals after playing a ridiculous amount of games we should ignore that he still isn't doing it all for us?
We know for a fact that Martial is good and can put in numbers. Last year as a winger he scored 17 goals and got 11 assists. That's something I'd expect a United winger to bring to the table. Creativity and end product.
Lingard on the other hand has never come close to putting in respectable numbers even for a mid table team let alone a club the size of Man United.
If he can't deliver neither goals not assists, basically lacking both creativity and end product, what are we playing him for? To run a lot and feck up any decent dangerous threat going forward?
So just because he scores the odd goals after playing a ridiculous amount of games we should ignore that he still isn't doing it all for us?
Would Lingard get in the Barca, Bayern or Madrid squads? No, so why is he is our first choice player? Our standards are falling
@drdoityourself what was the better option to take for 2:35? The defender made a good interception. Failure to that Rashford would've had a crack at an open goal. I think you're really harsh
Rubbish. Only De Gea and Pogba would currently get into those teams and maybe Rashford. Lets be realistic.
Rubbish. Only De Gea and Pogba would currently get into those teams and maybe Rashford. Lets be realistic.
Try to point out why Lingard isn't United standard and why we shouldn't do with him, predictably get called a hater.
Some of you lots need to seriously grow up
Some of you lots need to seriously grow up
Just make the pass between the defenders. He just consistently doesn't make the last, and most important phase of play. If the angle wasn't there Mata was all alone to his right.
The thing is some people are genuinely not aware at how average a football player Lingard actually is which is why they don't understand why the guy managing to make 50 appearances for us is beyond ridiculous.
That comparison Park-Lingard is good, in the sense that they're players to balance the team, more than players to threat the opposition. There's a lot of differences between them and Park is clearly the superior player, but it's a good comparison from a "team player" perspective. And this is my problem with Lingard starting so many games. I think he can be useful when we need an extra effort and competitive nerve from the players, you know, against direct rivals or away from home against an intense team.
But when we play at home against Stoke and Burnley we need gunpowder from the offensive players as a priority, and the discipline, teamwork is still important but on a second plane. Lingard is a good player to have in the squad but he lacks the poison to be a permanent starter. And for me it's calamitous that after spending hundreds of millions all these years we depend on Lingard to break defences at home. I don't have any problem with him playing a good number of minutes along the season, but if he keeps starting every week then we failed miserably as a club.
But when we play at home against Stoke and Burnley we need gunpowder from the offensive players as a priority, and the discipline, teamwork is still important but on a second plane. Lingard is a good player to have in the squad but he lacks the poison to be a permanent starter. And for me it's calamitous that after spending hundreds of millions all these years we depend on Lingard to break defences at home. I don't have any problem with him playing a good number of minutes along the season, but if he keeps starting every week then we failed miserably as a club.
The Rashford pass was more risky but the rewards would've been higher if the ball made it to him.
What players in Bayern/Madrid would get into Barca?
The comparison with Park is horrible. Park was just about the least skillful player in the squad, including defenders. But Fergie could have instructed Park to go out and hop his entire performance and he would have done it. He was so often the diligent fixer chasing down the opposition, helping us accomodate Rooney, Ronaldo and sometimes Tevez in the same line up. Lingard is doubtless a more skillful footballer than Park but so what. Park's contribution was built on character, something we're struggling to see not just in Lingard but in a few others.
The basics still need to be worked on, particurly his short passing which isn't up to standard yet.
Sometimes he's looking to run before he's laid off the ball - and that means another move breaks down.
The movement, darting into space and running ability is admirable but what good is it if the pass you've given to a team-mate is not to his feet?
This aspect needs serious work.
Sometimes he's looking to run before he's laid off the ball - and that means another move breaks down.
The movement, darting into space and running ability is admirable but what good is it if the pass you've given to a team-mate is not to his feet?
This aspect needs serious work.
I'm not arguing he shouldn't have tried to make that pass. I do question if he has the ability to pull off a pass like that. In goal scoring positions, especially when he is the passer, he comes up short too many times.
He did it several times last season. I remember him playing a perfect through ball to Rooney putting him one on one only for him to miss when he should've scored (with his left, can't remember who it was against). He also laid one on the plate for Fellaini against West Ham I believe, complete defence splitting ball but Fellaini's shot was saved. He also did the same for Martial in the F.A cup against Everton and he (Martial) blasted over when he should've scored. Moments like that are forgotten when players on the receiving end don't capitalize
@drdoityourself I think some of those passes I mentioned can be seen in the first three minutes. The Rooney one is at 1:46, Martial at 2:30, and Fellaini at 2:44. There are several other impressive through balls in the opening 3 mins alone. Also 3:13 assist to Mata
Mkhi's performance against Hull was better than any of Lingard's this season, I noticed you conveniently forgot to mention that performance. He has been fit a month so the 'lacking match fitness' excuse is a load of crap, But i've talked about that enough in the Mkhi thread.
Young is 31, but still better. Not sure why you have brought age into it. You say his crosses are terrible but thet are still much better than Lingards, Plus Young can actually beat a man.
Lingard has scored 8 goals in 50 games for United and has only made 2 assists this season. That just isn't good enough for a club like United as much as you try to sugar coat him. The facts are clear.
Because @drdoityourself questioned whether he's capable of pulling off a killer pass so I posted that vid and pointed him to some examples. Jesus fecking christ
Mkhi's performance against Hull wasn't better than any of Lingard's this season, don't let your favouritism blind you. I love Mkhi too, have done since he first joined Dortmund, but he played some pretty passes and made some good runs in that game, nothing outstanding.
He's played 50 times including substitute appearances, scored 8 times including the Community Shield goal, and the vital FA Cup goal. Most of those appearances came last season where most of our players were playing terribly and only Mata, DDG, Martial & Rashford can say they contributed consistently. Lingard was a squad option up until the latter part of the season when he went on to link up well with Rashford & Martial in particular.
I see how you conveniently forgot that part too.
Young doesn't provide any attacking threat, he can't play one-twos, crossing is a big part of his contribution and they're poor. He doesn't play on the right side so he wouldn't even be competing with Lingard, and at 31 he's on a decline.
He's made 2 assists and scored 2 goals this season in 7 appearances, how is that a bad return?
Mkhi will eventually displace him, but for now he's not getting any games, and Mourinho is more qualified than any of us to judge a players attitude and match fitness.
In the future, Lingard will become a good squad player to have to come off the bench.
edit -
Mkhi's performance for comparison purposes.
Like I said, played some pretty passes, made some good runs, took a few wild shots, lost the ball a few times but overall nothing outstanding.
If this was Lingard, the pitchforks would be out.
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One of the complaints I see here is he is keeping better players x, y and z out of the team. How does he do it, I wonder. Does he put a gun to their heads before games begin? Or maybe he has direct links to local mafiosi?
He plays in an attacking position at a top level club. So he isn't all bad and will have his moments and that were good passes. I've found those moments too few and far between, and his final ball is not something you can depend on.
I actually don't mind him as a squad player, but since he broke through I've never seen him anything other than a regular starter. So I judge him as a regular Manchester United starter, a constant fixture of the front four. He just isn't of the required quality IMO. There are players who have the potential in this squad to improve on this position, Rashford and Mikhi so I'm hoping to see us try something else for a few weeks.
I'd argue it was. In fact tell me then which game Lingard has been better then? and the Community Shield is a glorified friendly if you are going to mention that.
Lingard started most of the games last season and this season so far. And as a forward at United you have to produce better then what he does. You can sugar coat it with the old excuse 'he creates space', But we need better. We cannot complain about sliding down the league while we have the likes of him playing in pivitol positions. Play average players, get average results.
Young is better on both the attacking and defensive end IMO. He may be on a decline but he is still better then Lingard, take of that what you want.
FWIW - I think Lingard up until a month ago started really well and looked like he had improved. But the old mediocre Lingard has returned unfortunately and it looks like this is what Lingard ultimately is. Like I said a few days ago, When he wouldn't be the stand out player in most Premier League and upper tier Championship sides that just about shows his level. Nothing personal to the guy I want him to be excellent but we have to be realistic here aswell. We need better players starting to progress. Maybe he can be a squad player if he plays aswell as he did the first few months of this season, but the current version is just not good enough if we really want to be better.
I don't see him as a starter and I don't think he currently is. With Martial struggling for fitness and consistency and Mkhitaryan still adjusting to the PL he's obviously Mourinho's best option right now with Young behind him. Rashford is wasted on the wings IMO but at least he's still getting games and experience
When people start saying Lingard is not even PL or Championship material you know its nothing but pure hate.
- Status