Jean-Clair Todibo | signs for West Ham on loan with option to buy

Adnan said:
I haven't really noticed him being weak aerially. But that could be down to me not really focusing on his aerial game.

But there seems to be a consensus among a group of people that he's weak in the air. And I'm assuming it's likely due to how his aerial game is presented on Fbref. And I'm wandering if it's a case of not knowing the difference between volume and percentage. Because the reason I say that is because if you read the article below (5 months old) it provides stats that show him to be strong aerially.

Front the article linked below: "As for aerial duels, the centre-back contests 2.5 per match with a 71.7% win rate. He has given up two fouls inside the box and averages 0.58 fouls per 90 minutes on the pitch."

https://ligue1analysis.com/jean-cla...23-data-stats-analysis-scout-report/analysis/

But I think personally, I'd rather have a CB who is a little bit weaker in the air but is strong at contesting ground duels and also has the ability under pressure to help progress play. Like the vid below demonstrates, he's very strong in 1v1 situations even against the best attackers in the world but he also provides something a little bit extra in possession. And I think at 23 years of age, he's a low risk signing with potential to grow further with good coaching.

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Yeah dont think there is any indication he is poor in the air from what I have seen, he seemed pretty comfortable dealing with crosses and stuff, will have to obviously wait to see if he can keep that going in the PL. I would say he is pretty similar to Saliba in that aspect and he hasn't be too bothered with that in his time in the PL I suppose.

The clips with Mbappe are pretty accurate, he has kept him in check or atleast given him a tougher time pretty much every time they have come across each other.
 
Based on 2 youtube videos I have seen, I thought Disasi looked better. More dominant. and better on the ball.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Based on 2 youtube videos I have seen, I thought Disasi looked better. More dominant. and better on the ball.
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This is why Youtube scouting doesn't work, not a jab at you, just a general comment. Think this bloke is a lot more convincing and promising in basically every department from watching actual games of them both.
 
As for Todibo's supposed "weakness" in the air, his success rate is actually better than Kim's (71.7% vs. 65%). As a general guide, percentages do not tell the whole story but IMO should carry more weight than the volume of aerials won. A higher percentage could be due to a better ability to pick which aerials to go for, while higher volumes could be because of how the team plays or what leagues they are in, so neither stat should be relied on too much. My impression when I watched him (which is a good while ago) was not of someone who struggles in the air though. I really liked both his ability on the ball and his ability to recover and not let people past.

Why would he be "cheap" then? I don't think Nice have ever sold anyone for a higher price (?), players are not as costly in Ligue 1 as in the PL (obviously) and he is a player who is in the process of rebuilding his reputation after "failing" at Barcelona. I think he is exciting and has the right physical and technical qualities to be good for us.
 
criticalanalysis said:
We absolutely need a defender who has really good athletic attributes. I love Varane but he is not the same player physically anymore and I feel he plays with that in the back of his mind i.e he doesn't use open his legs as much, goes into 1 vs 1 duels or gets proper touch tight to shut down attackers. He still defends at a high level due to his intelligence, stride, size, experience and aerial prowess but I worry about playing a higher line with him and Martinez at the back. I think he has a limited number of recovery sprints in his per game.

A younger more pacier player that is aggressive and can move across the pitch with regular high intensity sprints would elevate our game intangibly. Of course that's assuming the rest of his game is up to par. With the way we play Mount and Bruno ahead of Casemiro, it seems Martinez is being asked even more of his ball playing ability and venturing further higher up the pitch. That leaves us vulnerable on the counter attack, so a fast covering defender would help massively.

And also because Lindelof is not what we should be striving for as the 3rd option; he's so underwhelmingly thoroughly average across the board
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I was alluding to this previously but this is a much better breakdown of some of my concerns and observations. It’s not that I’m looking for issues, but mindful that we can address a potential issue before it becomes one.

For me the more we can take the pressure of Varane and get him playing to his optimum the better for everyone. If he has a player that can tag in and learn from him too, all the better. I can also see us improving with a more touch tight and aggressive approach with the high line Onana would support. Ie can go for the interception but recover if needed.

I agree Lindelof isn’t elite but I think he showed last season he is definitely a capable squad player. Good 4th choice hopefully.
 
Get him in, with Maguire heading out it's a proactive and smart move
 
Fortitude said:
Agree with the last sentence, but the previous; is that enough experience to come here and be ready or not in need of a lot more to become the finished article?

Rotation at CB is sparse compared to other positions and outside of managing Varane's fitness, he'd be getting tidbits relative to the permit fixture he currently is.
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But that accounts for a lot of games. Varane only played 34 games and 29 the season previous, when we play roughly 60 games per season. There's plenty of games for both.
 
Tbh I think getting Josip Sutalo for 20m Euros (Ajax seems getting there) seems like the better deal.
 
RC89 said:
But that accounts for a lot of games. Varane only played 34 games and 29 the season previous, when we play roughly 60 games per season. There's plenty of games for both.
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I think people underestimate how many games a developing CB needs to hone his craft, but! With Maguire gone, we’re going to see how the club handles this kid’s development first-hand.
 
Not against this by any means, but maybe we could just keep Bailly as 4th/5th choice? I guess Bailly probably wants out.

Would rather put the funds towards another forward, that's where we're really lacking. Also a bit of a shame Livramento went to Newcastle, that could have been a good deal for us.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
For the hospital?
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I never like to judge a player by injuries as it is so hard to tell what is a chronic problem and what isn't. But point taken.

From a pure ability perspective, Bailly is more than good enough to be a backup to Varane, Martinez, Lindelof and Shaw.
 
sincher said:
Not against this by any means, but maybe we could just keep Bailly as 4th/5th choice? I guess Bailly probably wants out.

Would rather put the funds towards another forward, that's where we're really lacking. Also a bit of a shame Livramento went to Newcastle, that could have been a good deal for us.
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Bailly's had ample opportunity to nail down a position here and it just hasn't worked out, for one reason or another.

If there's one thing I'd like us to do this season, it is to move on players who have had chances and haven't worked out. Now's the time to do it. We need an injection of fresh talent in the side, rather than still holding on to the 'maybe' fringe players who could eventually come good, but most likely won't.
 
sincher said:
I never like to judge a player by injuries as it is so hard to tell what is a chronic problem and what isn't. But point taken.

From a pure ability perspective, Bailly is more than good enough to be a backup to Varane, Martinez, Lindelof and Shaw.
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Maybe 2 or 3 years ago, he's not good enough anymore and was a train wreck for Marseille.
 
sincher said:
Not against this by any means, but maybe we could just keep Bailly as 4th/5th choice? I guess Bailly probably wants out.

Would rather put the funds towards another forward, that's where we're really lacking. Also a bit of a shame Livramento went to Newcastle, that could have been a good deal for us.
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What’s the point of keeping Bailly around even in that capacity? He’s crap, unreliable in every sense. Backups need to be fit so they can be backups.
 
Isn't Jonny Evans our replacement for Maguire? Unless Bailly is shipped out, I'd prefer the Maguire money is spent on Amrabat.
 
Red Royal said:
Isn't Jonny Evans our replacement for Maguire? Unless Bailly is shipped out, I'd prefer the Maguire money is spent on Amrabat.
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ETH still wants a midfielder and a centre half, that's why we are seeing so many players linked with moves out right now to generate the funds to buy both.
 
Red Royal said:
Isn't Jonny Evans our replacement for Maguire? Unless Bailly is shipped out, I'd prefer the Maguire money is spent on Amrabat.
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Evans is probably just here for coaching and to cover an injury crisis like the one we had at the close of last season.
 
Red Royal said:
Isn't Jonny Evans our replacement for Maguire? Unless Bailly is shipped out, I'd prefer the Maguire money is spent on Amrabat.
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True...if Maguire is as shit as everyone claims on the Cafe, then Evans is more than his equal and has already replaced Maguire.
 
His current contract runs to 2027 and only extended 9 months ago. Although with contracts these days, it’s probably loaded with clauses to go for set prices if certain clubs come in or something.
 
Red Royal said:
Isn't Jonny Evans our replacement for Maguire? Unless Bailly is shipped out, I'd prefer the Maguire money is spent on Amrabat.
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Fred + Donny money will be spent on that as has been said many times
 
Red Royal said:
Isn't Jonny Evans our replacement for Maguire? Unless Bailly is shipped out, I'd prefer the Maguire money is spent on Amrabat.
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No, Evans is done at the top level and he's currently worse than Maguire.

Amrabat money is coming from Fred and VDB's sales.
 
Todibo or Pavard? Hmmm. Quite an interesting and fun conundrum for United to have, for a change.

For me, it goes down to mentality. Yes, Pavard have won it all, very experienced and versatile type of a defensive player but Todibo is younger and hungrier for success (hopefully) after a not so successful earlier part of his career, despite playing for Barcelona. Based on his comments about his time at Barca, it seems that he has matured as a person and should be prime candidate to learn from the Rolls-Royce of a CB himself.

I am just afraid that United might buy another "duds" or "has-beens" from Bayern like the previous recent purchases, or at least Pavard won't be as hungry after having won it all. I might be wrong of course, and I would be glad to be proven wrong in this case.
 
NotQuiteManc said:
Todibo or Pavard? Hmmm. Quite an interesting and fun conundrum for United to have, for a change.

For me, it goes down to mentality. Yes, Pavard have won it all, very experienced and versatile type of a defensive player but Todibo is younger and hungrier for success (hopefully) after a not so successful earlier part of his career, despite playing for Barcelona. Based on his comments about his time at Barca, it seems that he has matured as a person and should be prime candidate to learn from the Rolls-Royce of a CB himself.

I am just afraid that United might buy another "duds" or "has-beens" from Bayern like the previous recent purchases, or at least Pavard won't be as hungry after having won it all. I might be wrong of course, and I would be glad to be proven wrong in this case.
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I understand your apprehension but Pavard is not a player Bayern want to lose, he just wants to leave. As for being a has-been, he's 27 and in his prime, can cover the CB position and RB. I'd argue he's actually a better right back than the ones we have.

Todibo looks exciting however.
 
NotQuiteManc said:
Todibo or Pavard? Hmmm. Quite an interesting and fun conundrum for United to have, for a change.

For me, it goes down to mentality. Yes, Pavard have won it all, very experienced and versatile type of a defensive player but Todibo is younger and hungrier for success (hopefully) after a not so successful earlier part of his career, despite playing for Barcelona. Based on his comments about his time at Barca, it seems that he has matured as a person and should be prime candidate to learn from the Rolls-Royce of a CB himself.

I am just afraid that United might buy another "duds" or "has-beens" from Bayern like the previous recent purchases, or at least Pavard won't be as hungry after having won it all. I might be wrong of course, and I would be glad to be proven wrong in this case.
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Would love us to get Pavard NOW then keep tabs on this guy and other CB targets for next summer when Rapha will probably leave
 
croadyman said:
Would love us to get Pavard NOW then keep tabs on this guy and other CB targets for next summer when Rapha will probably leave
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Probably the best case scenarios type of a plan, and should be pretty feasible as most top teams already have their CBs set.
 
NotQuiteManc said:
Todibo or Pavard? Hmmm. Quite an interesting and fun conundrum for United to have, for a change.

For me, it goes down to mentality. Yes, Pavard have won it all, very experienced and versatile type of a defensive player but Todibo is younger and hungrier for success (hopefully) after a not so successful earlier part of his career, despite playing for Barcelona. Based on his comments about his time at Barca, it seems that he has matured as a person and should be prime candidate to learn from the Rolls-Royce of a CB himself.

I am just afraid that United might buy another "duds" or "has-beens" from Bayern like the previous recent purchases, or at least Pavard won't be as hungry after having won it all. I might be wrong of course, and I would be glad to be proven wrong in this case.
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Both. Because why not?

Sell AWB, use Pavard there as a cover and Todibo covers for Maguire and Varane. It'd be great business and sorts our defence concerns for years.
 
izec said:
But he can play RB.

I would still go for Todibo. Do it now, dont lose time. 30m bid please
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Don't understand why him playing RB makes the difference as he is always a bit meh. Doesn't really excel at anything.

I agree on Todibo.
 
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