Jean-Clair Todibo | signs for West Ham on loan with option to buy

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I don't see the issue.

Could be what...60 games? As a player you would always back yourself as well. There's an opening there. Whether it's to outcompete Varane quite simply, because at the end of the day he hasn't been faultless, or if it's to pick up the additional fixtures Varane can't play, there's more than enough chance.

ETH will probably rotate Varane if he thinks he has a good option. He's not thick, he knows if a player can handle it like Bruno or whether it's best to have a consistent rotation to get the best out of the personnel. Last season you couldn't not play Varane as he didn't have the same trust in the CB rotations, with his own signing he would have.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Well I am more than happy.

Mount + Amrabat (+ Mainoo) > McFred + VDB
Onana > declining De Gea
Hojlund > Weghorst
this lad > Maguire at United
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More so than just being better footballers overall, they're more suited to the managers vision allowing for his ideas to be implemented.
 
Trex said:
See I'm Nigerian and I'm quite happy for Osimhen to remain at Napoli and at least consolidate last season before going for something bigger so I get it. But as a united fan I see the need to bring in a Maguire replacement and Varane's long term successor, I don't think its a bad role to occupy at all.
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It has nothing to do with his nationality. I said the same thing about Hojlund and I say the same thing about every single player that needs game time.
 
JPRouve said:
You are underestimating Varane, very few players will challenge a fit Varane and none of them are french.
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I think you are overrating him then. I think Saliba is comfortably better. Not only on the ball (where the difference is huge).
 
JPRouve said:
It has nothing to do with his nationality. I said the same thing about Hojlund and I say the same thing about every single player that needs game time.
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You don't think Hojlund would play? I'll be surprised if he doesn't and I mean starts. See the minutes Weghorst got. Again I think Todibo would play. Has ETH signed any player and not given him game time? Do you think we can get to City level using the same 11 three times a week? That's without factoring injuries?
 
JPRouve said:
He has the potential but he needs to play. And no being good enough isn't something that applies to CBs or goalkeepers, managers tend to not touch these positions unless they have to, there are few exceptions one involving Varane with Real Madrid but it's not the norm.
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I really think this may be Varanes last season as the starter at CB
 
Trex said:
You don't think Hojlund would play? I'll be surprised if he doesn't and I mean starts. See the minutes Weghorst got. Again I think Todibo would play. Has ETH signed any player and not given him game time? Do you think we can get to City level using the same 11 three times a week? That's without factoring injuries?
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People were suggesting that Hojlund should only be seen as a backup to a clear starter, that's not good for a player like Hojlund who is an ascending curver in terms of his development and game time, his focus should be on being used as a starter. The same applies to Todibo for different reasons, Todibo wasted important years due a premature move to Barcelona, he put himself back on track by joining Nice and getting all the minutes that he needed but he is still not the finished product and should be very careful about his next move, he can't put himsself in a situation where he isn't a starter or seen as a starting level player, not at this point of his career.
 
JPRouve said:
People were suggesting that Hojlund should only be seen as a backup to a clear starter, that's not good for a player like Hojlund who is an ascending curver in terms of his development and game time, his focus should be on being used as a starter. The same applies to Todibo for different reasons, Todibo wasted important years due a premature move to Barcelona, he put himself back on track by joining Nice and getting all the minutes that he needed but he is still not the finished product and should be very careful about his next move, he can't put himsself in a situation where he isn't a starter or seen as a starting level player, not at this point of his career.
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Let's use Varane's career as an example he wasn't always a starter with Pepe and Ramos ahead. But he eventually succeeded Pepe and established himself as a starter for Madrid. I think if Todibo has high potential it could go in a similar manner with him eventually succeeding Varane. I think he'll get many minutes even now already.
 
Trex said:
Let's use Varane's career as an example he wasn't always a starter with Pepe and Ramos ahead. But he eventually succeeded Pepe and established himself as a starter for Madrid. I think if Todibo has high potential it could go in a similar manner with him eventually succeeding Varane. I think he'll get many minutes even now already.
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Varane is an exception not the rule, he is one of the few examples that I was referring to and he was 18 years old not 23. He had time in his favor and he had an "understading" on gametime which is rare. If you want a more typical example, you have Todibo himself.
 
JPRouve said:
Varane is an exception not the rule, he is one of the few examples that I was referring to and he was 18 years old not 23. He had time in his favor and he had an "understading" on gametime which is rare. If you want a more typical example, you have Todibo himself.
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Either way it seem like he'll be Maguire's replacement so we'll see how that plays out.
 
JPRouve said:
The issue for the player is what happens if Varane is fit for 5 months? Do you maintain the rotation or do you put Todibo on the bench for the better part of 5 months?
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If we play 3 games a week is it feasible to make sure Todibo is playing at least once? Preserve Varane and Todibo gets playing time?

In writing it makes sense, but in reality can it work?
 
JJ12 said:
If we play 3 games a week is it feasible to make sure Todibo is playing at least once? Preserve Varane and Todibo gets playing time?

In writing it makes sense, but in reality can it work?
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My point is about ETH planning for something like that and the player getting that kind of agreement from him. I'm not suggesting that it's impossible but that the player should aim for it and get it from the club otherwise he is putting himself in a bad situation because United has a starting pairing and teams tend to not break it for the sake of breaking it. The same would have been true for Kim and it may be a reason why he picked someone else.
 
JJ12 said:
If we play 3 games a week is it feasible to make sure Todibo is playing at least once? Preserve Varane and Todibo gets playing time?

In writing it makes sense, but in reality can it work?
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It can work if he is good enough. I’m afraid I have no idea how good he is or what sort of defender we’d be getting.

But in principle I think we need a guy who is good enough to compete with Varane and get ahead of him sometimes if Varane’s fitness or level drops. Being good enough to play one game in three should be the minimum ask. The question has got to be: is he good enough? (I suppose that’s what you were asking in a roundabout way.)
 
Rolaholic said:
He'd get plenty of opportunities with the amount of matches we play each season

The likes of Maguire, Lindelof and even Shaw all got a bunch of minutes last season in spite of not being first choice.

The manager said as much



If Citeh can manage 4 starter quality CB's, they added yet another for a record fee, we definitely can.

He would also offer a natural succession plan for Varane as he gets older
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My view exactly. EtH thinks and talks exactly as I hope he would. His philosophy on the modern game and managing the football side of the club is perfect imo.
 
Rolaholic said:
He was very raw back then and lost out to Araujo, who's blossomed into one of the best in the world, while Pique was also still a starter. That plus the constant managerial upheaval made it not the best situation for his developement.

He's developed nicely back in France and has all the tools to be a top CB long term.
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He's also spoke how he was immature and not ready back then and has taken steps to grow up more
 
JPRouve said:
My point is about ETH planning for something like that and the player getting that kind of agreement from him. I'm not suggesting that it's impossible but that the player should aim for it and get it from the club otherwise he is putting himself in a bad situation because United has a starting pairing and teams tend to not break it for the sake of breaking it. The same would have been true for Kim and it may be a reason why he picked someone else.
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Yeah, I get it fair point. Is he good enough to compete with Varane? Or is Varane still too good/Todibo not quite ready for that?
 
I just don't understand who people want to make up a squad. Should every back up be some veteran player that doesn't need minutes? How is that good squad building?

Todibo may become a star here, or maybe he becomes another Lindelof. But there's 0 doubt he's an upgrade on Maguire and clearly has better potential than VL while backing up our first choice CB that tends to be quite injury prone and nearing 30. Not to mention his profile as a player is exactly what we are looking for. For the price it's a no brainer.
 
On 18 September 2022, he was sent off in a match against Angers after nine seconds, the fastest red card in Ligue 1 history.
 
Andy_Cole said:
On 18 September 2022, he was sent off in a match against Angers after nine seconds, the fastest red card in Ligue 1 history.
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Just searched for the clip. It was a very, very harsh decision considering there are other defenders near him during the incident. Then again, my interpretation might be based on outdated rules.
 
Todibo definitely has the ability to beat Varane out for the RCB spot imo. The only doubt one would have is about how quickly Todibo adjusts to the EPL.

But as far as having the attributes to succeed in a team that wants to play out from the back, Todibo ticks more boxes than Varane and imo and is also potentially superior to the current Varane when it comes to defending the channel in 1v1 situations.

I do think there's things in Todibo's game that require refinement, but I think it's potentially a very good signing with a view to taking over from Varane in the mid to long-term, aswell as being a rotation option for now.
 
Fortitude said:
@JPRouve @kouroux is this kid done with his formative development? I.e a complete game (no obvious weaknesses) and ready for his shot at a big club with all the pressure and expectations that come with it?
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He's at a stage where he has to start, him as a backup would be a waste of his potential. I'd say he is ready to start at a mid level club (competing for Europa league places for instance).
 
kouroux said:
He's at a stage where he has to start, him as a backup would be a waste of his potential. I'd say he is ready to start at a mid level club (competing for Europa league places for instance).
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Cheers. You guys concur and it should be of note as I doubt anyone else has seen anywhere near as much of him as you two.

Not apprehensive about the player, but nurturing and developing him, given that need for absolute maxed PT, is a concern.
 
JJ12 said:
Yeah, I get it fair point. Is he good enough to compete with Varane? Or is Varane still too good/Todibo not quite ready for that?
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A fit Varane is far better. And it's not because Todibo isn't good,, Todibo could be very good in the future but it won't happen without playing a lot.
 
We need better than Lindelöf. Lindelöf to me is not a serious third option. There is just too much a lack of class after Martinez/Varane. So Todibo is welcome.
 
JPRouve said:
My point is about ETH planning for something like that and the player getting that kind of agreement from him. I'm not suggesting that it's impossible but that the player should aim for it and get it from the club otherwise he is putting himself in a bad situation because United has a starting pairing and teams tend to not break it for the sake of breaking it. The same would have been true for Kim and it may be a reason why he picked someone else.
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I agree and didn't see sense in the Kim signing, but Kim is at a higher level, more proven, and 3 years older. Todibo is at the perfect age to come in and be an important squad player, maintain the level for us when Varane is absent, and we play enough games where he'd get his games while he adapts to the league. With Varanes injuries and fitness needing managing, he doesn't play every single game. They would very likely alternate games before long, Varane starting the occasional back to back opponent depending but Todibo would get his fair share, adapt to the league in a less pressure situation, learn from Varane, and then Varane is 6.5 years older. Turns 31 this coming season and has repeated muscular injuries, so it's not like you can reliably say he'll be fine for years. A rotation situation for a season or 2 before Todibo takes over is pretty reasonable, by which time Todibo would be what, 25?
 
I have to admit that I've only heard about Todibo but I've never actually seen him play. Is he any good? Does he have any similarities to any well known defender?
 
I don't think Todibo would immediately take Varane's number 1 spot the way Kim would have, but I do think he's a very strong backup and he's a good age to replace Varane in a year or 2. Considering they already know each other from the national side, Varane would probably be a great role model for him also. Varane can't play 2 games in a week either, so we need strong backups (Lindelof is probably strong enough tbf, but any injury would cause problems). I don't think I've ever seen him play there, but I could see Todibo being able to play rb considering how good he is on the ball. Anyone know if he's ever played there?
 
Varane is class. But he's also in his 30s, has had injury issues and isn't the best on the ball.

Ideally we don't want back-up for him, we want someone who can challenge for and eventually win that RCB place. Which will invariably be someone who currently seems too good to just be back-up, because they won't be coming here to just be back-up.

As always City's level of depth is the reference point here.
 
Prodigy24 said:
I have to admit that I've only heard about Todibo but I've never actually seen him play. Is he any good? Does he have any similarities to any well known defender?
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He's quite similar to Martinez in a lot of ways. If you look past the fact he's much taller and right footed.
 
Stobzilla said:
He's quite similar to Martinez in a lot of ways. If you look past the fact he's much taller and right footed.
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Martinez's passing is on a whole different level compared to Todibo. Todibo's passing is more risk free and simple, nothing compared to the kind of passes Martinez can play.

But Todibo is a lot faster
 
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