Jean-Clair Todibo | signs for West Ham on loan with option to buy

sounds like a good age profile. Needs just a little seasoning behind varane, but not ridiculously young where we couldnt really count on him this season. If we swap maguire for him and then mctominay for a different mid what a window.
 
Rolaholic said:
He was very raw back then and lost out to Araujo, who's blossomed into one of the best in the world, while Pique was also still a starter. That plus the constant managerial upheaval made it not the best situation for his developement.

He's developed nicely back in France and has all the tools to be a top CB long term.
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I see his a french international as well so hopefully we can get this one done and he proves to be good competition for Varane and Lisandro.
 
@JPRouve @kouroux is this kid done with his formative development? I.e a complete game (no obvious weaknesses) and ready for his shot at a big club with all the pressure and expectations that come with it?
 
Fortitude said:
@JPRouve @kouroux is this kid done with his formative development? I.e a complete game (no obvious weaknesses) and ready for his shot at a big club with all the pressure and expectations that come with it?
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He wasted development time due to his move to Barcelona, while he doesn't have obvious weaknesses he still has room for improvement when it comes to his reading of the game with and without the ball. Personally I don't think that joining a club to be a backup is a good move for him.
 
JPRouve said:
He wasted development time due to his move to Barcelona, while he doesn't have obvious weaknesses he still has room for improvement when it comes to his reading of the game with and without the ball. Personally I don't think that joining a club to be a backup is a good move for him.
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Cheers. So he needs all the PT he can get, still? Not a surprise for a 23-year old.

Like the look of him, but the profile doesn’t seem the best match.
 
He'd get plenty of opportunities with the amount of matches we play each season

The likes of Maguire, Lindelof and even Shaw all got a bunch of minutes last season in spite of not being first choice.

The manager said as much



If Citeh can manage 4 starter quality CB's, they added yet another for a record fee, we definitely can.

He would also offer a natural succession plan for Varane as he gets older
 
Rolaholic said:
He'd get plenty of opportunities with the amount of matches we play each season

The likes of Maguire, Lindelof and even Shaw all got a bunch of minutes last season in spite of not being first choice.

The manager said as much



If Citeh can manage 4 starter quality CB's, they added yet another for a record fee, we definitely can.

He would also offer a natural succession plan for Varane as he gets older
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Pretty much. He will be a long term option if he comes in
 
Fortitude said:
Cheers. So he needs all the PT he can get, still? Not a surprise for a 23-year old.

Like the look of him, but the profile doesn’t seem the best match.
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If I was his advisor I would tell him to pick game time over nearly anything else unless we are talking about a life altering contract. Otherwise Todibo should be the highest rated young french defender today ahead of Saliba but he made the bad move to Barcelona when he was 18 and didn't benefit from a stable development system, in spite of that he has put himself back on track when he joined Nice.

If ETH's idea is to have three starters and rotate them then he is a solid option but coaches rarely work like that with their CBs.
 
JPRouve said:
If I was his advisor I would tell him to pick game time over nearly anything else unless we are talking about a life altering contract. Otherwise Todibo should be the highest rated young french defender today ahead of Saliba but he made the bad move to Barcelona when he was 18 and didn't benefit from a stable development system, in spite of that he has put himself back on track when he joined Nice.

If ETH's idea is to have three starters and rotate them then he is a solid option but coaches rarely work like that with their CBs.
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We have to work like that because Varane can’t play 3 games a week.
 
JPRouve said:
If I was his advisor I would tell him to pick game time over nearly anything else unless we are talking about a life altering contract. Otherwise Todibo should be the highest rated young french defender today ahead of Saliba but he made the bad move to Barcelona when he was 18 and didn't benefit from a stable development system, in spite of that he has put himself back on track when he joined Nice.

If ETH's idea is to have three starters and rotate them then he is a solid option but coaches rarely work like that with their CBs.
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Varane makes this almost a necessity. He missed a lot of games due to injury but also Ten Hag had not to start in a lot of games to keep him fit.
 
Mickeza said:
We have to work like that because Varane can’t play 3 games a week.
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The issue for the player is what happens if Varane is fit for 5 months? Do you maintain the rotation or do you put Todibo on the bench for the better part of 5 months?
 
JPRouve said:
If I was his advisor I would tell him to pick game time over nearly anything else unless we are talking about a life altering contract. Otherwise Todibo should be the highest rated young french defender today ahead of Saliba but he made the bad move to Barcelona when he was 18 and didn't benefit from a stable development system, in spite of that he has put himself back on track when he joined Nice.

If ETH's idea is to have three starters and rotate them then he is a solid option but coaches rarely work like that with their CBs.
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Yeah aligns with my thoughts in terms of utilisation; if he comes here, it’ll be interesting to see how we look to develop him.
 
JPRouve said:
If I was his advisor I would tell him to pick game time over nearly anything else unless we are talking about a life altering contract. Otherwise Todibo should be the highest rated young french defender today ahead of Saliba but he made the bad move to Barcelona when he was 18 and didn't benefit from a stable development system, in spite of that he has put himself back on track when he joined Nice.

If ETH's idea is to have three starters and rotate them then he is a solid option but coaches rarely work like that with their CBs.
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Given we're in the UCL he'll play a lot. Varane can't be use twice a week every week.
 
JPRouve said:
The issue for the player is what happens if Varane is fit for 5 months? Do you maintain the rotation or do you put Todibo on the bench for the better part of 5 months?
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Varane’s minutes will be managed to keep him fit. Even if he was fully fit for 5 months - which seems a pipe dream - he won’t be playing 2 games in 4 days - he’ll be rested.
 
JPRouve said:
The issue for the player is what happens if Varane is fit for 5 months? Do you maintain the rotation or do you put Todibo on the bench for the better part of 5 months?
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Varane record since he arrived suggests his game time needs to be managed.
 
JPRouve said:
The issue for the player is what happens if Varane is fit for 5 months? Do you maintain the rotation or do you put Todibo on the bench for the better part of 5 months?
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I think there would be plenty of rotation, especially when the UCL starts up. Varane couldn't play 3 games a week last season.
 
this would be a really good deal - proactive defender - good on the ball

share minutes with Varane this season - then take over as starter from next. Varane's minutes will need to be managed anyway.
 
So; Mount, hojlund, Amrabat, onana & this lad most likely scenario come end of august: are we happy ?
 
My point is about the mindset of the coach, ETH isn't a "rotator", if his favored players are fit, he plays them until they are not fit any opinion built around a different idea is either based on wishful thinking or ETH completely changed an habit that he had since his Utrecht days. I totally understand the fact that people think that Varane lack of fitness may force the manager's hands but if you are asked to sign a 5 years contract you don't do it based on the hypothetical fitness of someone else, you do it based on how the club and manager proactively intend to use you.

That's why I make a difference between Todibo being a predetermined member of a starting rotation and being the cover for a player that is presumed to be injured often.
 
El-Manos said:
So: Mount, hojlund, Amrabat, onana & this lad most likely scenario come end of august: are we happy ?
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In a window that could also see Maguire, Fred, McTominay, Bailly, Jones, VDB, Telles, Elanga, De Gea and Taunzebe all leaving? That's nothing short of incredible tbh.
 
Ballache said:
Great window even if I have my reservations on Mount. He's a good player but I'm not sure how he fits in but we shall see.
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Sort of my view as well. Hard worker and makes excellent runs into the box. Needs to finish those “easy chances” though. Time will tell.
 
JPRouve said:
My point is about the mindset of the coach, ETH isn't a "rotator", if his favored players are fit, he plays them until they are not fit any opinion built around a different idea is either based on wishful thinking or ETH completely changed an habit that he had since his Utrecht days. I totally understand the fact that people think that Varane lack of fitness may force the manager's hands but if you are asked to sign a 5 years contract you don't do it based on the hypothetical fitness of someone else, you do it based on how the club and manager proactively intend to use you.

That's why I make a difference between Todibo being a predetermined member of a starting rotation and being the cover for a player that is presumed to be injured often.
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He does rotate when he trust his options. Malacia played a lot even with shaw presence. There was also rotation between the likes of Sancho, Garnacho, Martial(when fit). Awb and Dalot in the second half of the season. He just didn't trust the likes of Maguire, Mcfred hence he avoided playing them and rightly so.
 
Trex said:
He does rotate when he trust his options. Malacia played a lot even with shaw presence. There was also rotation between the likes of Sancho, Garnacho, Martial(when fit). Awb and Dalot in the second half of the season. He just didn't trust the likes of Maguire, Mcfred hence he avoided playing them and rightly so.
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None of these are rotations. AWB virtually didn't play for the first part of the season and Dalot barely played during the second part of the season. Sancho, Garnacho and Martial also didn't rotate, Martial was the starter when fit while Sancho played when other options were injured and Garnacho got cameos and very few starts.
 
Yeah Varane isnt a certainty for the season by any means, he is showing signs of wear with his injuries. Also the games at Anfield/Villa Park when teams went at us with ridiculous pace on the counters, our CBs were toyed with.

We need the profile of a young quick centre half who can step in and do Varane's job when he is unavailable or off his game, and be ready to replace him long term. IMO Todibo fits that profile perfectly
 
JPRouve said:
My point is about the mindset of the coach, ETH isn't a "rotator", if his favored players are fit, he plays them until they are not fit any opinion built around a different idea is either based on wishful thinking or ETH completely changed an habit that he had since his Utrecht days. I totally understand the fact that people think that Varane lack of fitness may force the manager's hands but if you are asked to sign a 5 years contract you don't do it based on the hypothetical fitness of someone else, you do it based on how the club and manager proactively intend to use you.

That's why I make a difference between Todibo being a predetermined member of a starting rotation and being the cover for a player that is presumed to be injured often.
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Not good enough to challenge Varane? Varane is experienced and all that, but not exactly great on the ball. Not that fast either anymore.
 
andersj said:
Not good enough to challenge Varane? Varane is experienced and all that, but not exactly great on the ball. Not that fast either anymore.
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You are underestimating Varane, very few players will challenge a fit Varane and none of them are french.
 
JPRouve said:
None of these are rotations. AWB virtually didn't play for the first part of the season and Dalot barely played during the second part of the season. Sancho, Garnacho and Martial also didn't rotate, Martial was the starter when fit while Sancho played when other options were injured and Garnacho got cameos and very few starts.
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If this todibo guy is any good he'll play. There'll rotation between league and UCL games and the cup fixtures as well. My question is does he have the potential to be varane successor if his body continue to fail him?
 
Trex said:
If this todibo guy is any good he'll play. There'll rotation between league and UCL games and the cup fixtures as well. My question is does he have the potential to be varane successor if his body continue to fail him?
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He has the potential but he needs to play. And no being good enough isn't something that applies to CBs or goalkeepers, managers tend to not touch these positions unless they have to, there are few exceptions one involving Varane with Real Madrid but it's not the norm.
 
JPRouve said:
He has the potential but he needs to play. And no being good enough isn't something that applies to CBs or goalkeepers, managers tend to not touch these positions unless they have to, there are few exceptions one involving Varane with Real Madrid but it's not the norm.
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How often does a team play it ideal 11. Not very often. Are you French? You seem to be looking out specifically for the player interest and I think I'm looking at it more from a united POV.
 
Trex said:
How often does a team play it ideal 11. Not very often. Are you French? You seem to be looking out specifically for the player interest and I think I'm looking at it more from a united POV.
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I'm looking at the player because I was asked about the player development but in general I look at what benefit players when we are talking about young footballers that are still developping because clubs will throw them away at the first opportunity and fans will blame them at the first opportunity. I have a strong dislike with this tendency that fans have when they don't care about a player situation until it affects their team when we reach that point they target the player.
 
Varane plays enough games to be available throughout the season but I wouldn't consider him reliable. The idea should definitely be to replace him within the next 18 months. Get rid of Maguire for the rumored 37M and bring in the replacement for 30M it's good business. Also if the manager intends to use a system with 3 in the defense there's a viable option without comprising losing the left back putting Shaw in their for cover. It was actually the change in formation (3-2-4-1) that altered City's fate last season, looked a totally different team.
 
JPRouve said:
I'm looking at the player because I was asked about the player development but in general I look at what benefit players when we are talking about young footballers that are still developping because clubs will throw them away at the first opportunity and fans will blame them at the first opportunity. I have a strong dislike with this tendency that fans have when they don't care about a player situation until it affects their team when we reach that point they target the player.
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See I'm Nigerian and I'm quite happy for Osimhen to remain at Napoli and at least consolidate last season before going for something bigger so I get it. But as a united fan I see the need to bring in a Maguire replacement and Varane's long term successor, I don't think its a bad role to occupy at all.
 
El-Manos said:
So; Mount, hojlund, Amrabat, onana & this lad most likely scenario come end of august: are we happy ?
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Well I am more than happy.

Mount + Amrabat (+ Mainoo) > McFred + VDB
Onana > declining De Gea
Hojlund > Weghorst
this lad > Maguire at United
 
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