Jean-Clair Todibo | signs for West Ham on loan with option to buy

Rojofiam said:
Can you name these players?
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Frimpong and Vanderson are two players clubs were already looking then there is Henrichs thats just off the top of my head.

Quite obviously you overrate Dalot thats fine
 
Rojofiam said:
1. I didn't say he was better, only that I'd start the season with Branthwaite at LCB and then see what needs to be tweaked. You also need to understand that there's no real "starting back four", or "starting 11", as it's very rare that your best possible team starts week in, week out, without changes.

2. Shaw is great, just injury prone. You can't really "upgrade" on him qualitatively. If we cannot manage him better than previously (I hope we can, if Ineos make changes to the medical department), then there's still a few world class years in him.

3. Dalot has improved significantly, and has been the opposite of "inconsistent" this season.

A Shaw-Dalot pairing is one of the best full back duos out there, if the former can improve on his availability, and the latter keeps up this season's level. We will need to buy new full backs in the next couple of transfer windows, but "upgrading" is the wrong term IMO. It would be difficult to upgrade on them.
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Luke Shaw isn't suddenly going to become less vulnerable to injuries and is already showing signs of physical decline. It would be wise to go after a young player who can take his place. His contract runs till 2027, it would be smart to move him on in a couple of years.
 
Cassidy said:
Frimpong and Vanderson are two players clubs were already looking then there is Henrichs thats just off the top of my head.

Quite obviously you overrate Dalot thats fine
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You're quite obviously underrating Dalot's current level if you think these players are better than him.

Put Frimpong in a back 4 and RedCafe will call him one of the worst signings in the clubs history after a few weeks
 
dubplate warrior said:
Frimpong would take our offensive game to a completely new level. In fact I'm pretty sure we were heavily linked with him but didn't have the money.
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If we move to a back five, he would be one of the best signings we could make this summer

If we are planning to put him into a back four, we're basically going to put his reputation in tatters by October
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
I'm interested to know what back line you'd like to see us start with next season, because there's no way ten Hag will be paying 60M+ for what will effectively be a squad player, especially when we have other priorities.
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Where's the white text?
 
matherto said:
Where's the white text?
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No white text needed.
Do you think ten Hag will spend 60M plus on a back up to Martinez? People will say he's two footed - great stuff, but he's stronger with his left, and so I believe if we're to replace Varane and potentially Maguire's position in the squad, then a right footed centre should be who we are targeting.
 
dubplate warrior said:
Luke Shaw isn't suddenly going to become less vulnerable to injuries and is already showing signs of physical decline. It would be wise to go after a young player who can take his place. His contract runs till 2027, it would be smart to move him on in a couple of years.
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Isn’t that (potentially) Harry Amass though?

Unless club thinks Shaws injuries will now be regular/lengthy, hoping he can get through next season then we start to integrate Amass… assuming he continues on the trajectory he has done.

Would rather spend funds elsewhere if we can and not block an in-house youth player.. if they’re good enough, the more the merrier as already know club
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Isn’t that (potentially) Harry Amass though?

Unless club thinks Shaws injuries will now be regular/lengthy, hoping he can get through next season then we start to integrate Amass… assuming he continues on the trajectory he has done.

Would rather spend funds elsewhere if we can and not block an in-house youth player.. if they’re good enough, the more the merrier as already know club
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Forgot about him. As you'll agree you never know with young players, genuine question and I don't mean to derail an already derailed thread, but how good is he?
 
Cassidy said:
Your statement is false. There are RBs out there better than Dalot who we could look to target. Football exists outside of the PL
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Why would you do that and spend crazy money on a position where he is a contender for our player of season.

I'm so glad that you stay behind a keyboard and not in a decision making capacity.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Isn’t that (potentially) Harry Amass though?

Unless club thinks Shaws injuries will now be regular/lengthy, hoping he can get through next season then we start to integrate Amass… assuming he continues on the trajectory he has done.

Would rather spend funds elsewhere if we can and not block an in-house youth player.. if they’re good enough, the more the merrier as already know club
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Shaw
Malacia
Martínez
Amass in 1-2 years

It just doesn't make sense to blow 70m+ on a top class left back, when there are so many higher priorities elsewhere in the squad

A cheap punt on some promising, but unproven player is totally fine. I mean a deal similar to Malacia.
 
Rojofiam said:
If we move to a back five, he would be one of the best signings we could make this summer

If we are planning to put him into a back four, we're basically going to put his reputation in tatters by October
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Shows how much you lack knowledge of the player
 
Cassidy said:
Shows how much you lack knowledge of the player
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Frimpong plays as a right wing back in a back five for Leverkusen and his defensive responsibilities are nothing compared to what a Premier League right back has to deal with as part of a back four.

Buying players who excel in a certain environment, and then throwing them into a completely different system, and then being surprised as to why they don't look half as good as they did for their previous teams is a mistake we've repeatedly made in the last 10 years. I could probably give you an example of it from every single transfer window since 2013.

Frimpong is an amazing player in the right system. I'm all for signing him if we're going to give him the environment to succeed.
 
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Rojofiam said:
Frimpong plays as a right wing back in a back five for Leverkusen and his defensive responsibilities are nothing compared to what a Premier League right back has to deal with as part of a back four.

Buying players who excel in a certain environment, and then throwing them into a completely different system, and then being surprised as to why they don't look half as good as they did for their previous teams is a mistake we've repeatedly made in the last 10 years. I could probably give you an example of it from every single transfer window since 2013.

Frimpong is an amazing player in the right system. I'm all for signing him if we're going to give him the environment to succeed.
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He didn't play football before Leverkusen and has always played in a back 5 according to you.
 
dubplate warrior said:
Forgot about him. As you'll agree you never know with young players, genuine question and I don't mean to derail an already derailed thread, but how good is he?
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On form/last year/his age, he’s a very good prospect and should make a PL player. Not sure what level though as 16-18 is a huge and important jump both for ability but importantly, physical growth… he’s small at the moment and don’t know if that’s his genetics or age.

Im sure he’ll make a pro player but don’t know about level (for context, two years ago, I was pretty sure about Garnacho and 100% certain on Mainoo).

But I wouldn’t be spending money on a LB yet until we have a better idea on Amass’ progress and Shaws injuries (back to my previous point/post)… we’ve got other areas to sort. CH and a forward i.m.o.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
No white text needed.
Do you think ten Hag will spend 60M plus on a back up to Martinez? People will say he's two footed - great stuff, but he's stronger with his left, and so I believe if we're to replace Varane and potentially Maguire's position in the squad, then a right footed centre should be who we are targeting.
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He spent 60M on Mount. I can believe he’d do it again.
 
matherto said:
He spent 60M on Mount. I can believe he’d do it again.
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Mount was signed to go straight into our midfield. Unfortunately, Mount has been injured for large parts of this season, but there's no doubt, Mount, when fit, will be part of our midfield three, as he was at the start of the season.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Mount was signed to go straight into our midfield. Unfortunately, Mount has been injured for large parts of this season, but there's no doubt, Mount, when fit, will be part of our midfield three, as he was at the start of the season.
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this is a very interesting opinion considering all the rumors of a MF addition and Mainoo's importance.
 
aeh1991 said:
this is a very interesting opinion considering all the rumors of a MF addition and Mainoo's importance.
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It's hardly an opinion if it happened. Did ten Hag not start a midfield three of Mount, Bruno and Casemiro against Wolves? He did, and I believe if Mainoo didn't get injured during pre season, we'd have probably seen Mainoo, Mount and Bruno.

As it stands, Mount has been injured most of the season, but I still believe, if ten Hag is manager next season, he'll start with Mount.

I think all that changes is finding a replacement for Casemiro.

Most games:

Bruno - Mount
Mainoo

Tougher games:

Bruno - Mainoo
New CDM​
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
It's hardly an opinion if it happened. Did ten Hag not start a midfield three of Mount, Bruno and Casemiro against Wolves? He did, and I believe if Mainoo didn't get injured during pre season, we'd have probably seen Mainoo, Mount and Bruno.

As it stands, Mount has been injured most of the season, but I still believe, if ten Hag is manager next season, he'll start with Mount.

I think all that changes is finding a replacement for Casemiro.

Most games:

Bruno - Mount
Mainoo

Tougher games:

Bruno - Mainoo
New CDM​
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Let's talk again in a few months
 
Any news about us still interested in him at all?
 
aeh1991 said:
Mount will feature more often if he gets fit, giving us tactical flexibility. But he won't become a clear starter. We'll play Bruno, Mainoo and the new DM in most games.
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That may well be the case next season but initially it was ten Hag's plan to play Mount with Bruno and Casemiro/Mainoo.
 
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JohnnyLaw said:
I don’t think it is. Especially with Shaws, Martinez’ and Malacias ongoing injury problems.
And Martinez isn’t an option at left back, this is only an idea because people want to shoehorn Branthwaithe. ETH said previously that he doesn’t have the running power to play in midfield and the same is most likely true for LB.

Martinez/Shaw and Hernendez/Malacia with Shaw coming being first choice to come on for either and Malacia coming in for the odd game when we need to rotate. I think this is the smoothest way to proceed, we have quality in depth and most players also stay content.

Bringing in Branthwaithe would add stability and quality in depth to our CB area and I’d be very happy to have him, but we’d be left short on quality LBs and have two high profile players in direct contention.
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We need to purchase a left footed cb who is a natural at fullback. Or vice versa.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Can Shaw not play that role, and then we can focus on a natural left back?

New LB/Shaw - Martinez/Shaw - New RCB/Lindelof - Dalot/Wan-Bissaka
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I'm not sure you can squad plan on the basis of Shaw's availability. He's like a nice added extra when available, but it's not often enough for a top club. It's sub 50% of the time I think, over his career? Bonkers.
 
Lu Tze said:
I'm not sure you can squad plan on the basis of Shaw's availability. He's like a nice added extra when available, but it's not often enough for a top club. It's sub 50% of the time I think, over his career? Bonkers.
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Hence why he wouldn't be first choice anymore. Alternatively, we sell him, but that won't be happening in the summer.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Can Shaw not play that role, and then we can focus on a natural left back?

New LB/Shaw - Martinez/Shaw - New RCB/Lindelof - Dalot/Wan-Bissaka
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Exactly. Players like Theo Hernandez, Miguel Gutierrez, Fran Garcia, Rayan Aït-Nouri.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Can Shaw not play that role, and then we can focus on a natural left back?

....
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He can't. He is already injury prone. The entire point is to get in a player who can upgrade Lindeloff, yet cover Martinez and Shaw to equal degree. Addressing depth issues by adding a single player. If for example we had such a player this season. We wouldn't have missed Martinez, Shaw and Malacia so desperately.
 
aeh1991 said:
Exactly. Players like Theo Hernandez, Miguel Gutierrez, Fran Garcia, Rayan Aït-Nouri.
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Those are specialists. They don't actually solve anything. You'd rather bring in 2 cbs. A right sider equally confortable at right fullback. And a left side equally comfortable at left back. Like a City I feel our backline would then have actual depth.


For example: (hypotherically)If we had a defence in which:

Dalot. + AWB (RB/LB)
Todibo (Rb, RCB)
Martinez(Lcb, Lb, dm)
Kambwala (rcb, lcb)
Hincapie (Lcb,Lb)
Shaw(Lb, Lcb)
malacia (lb)
You'd have cover incredible depth in defence & would hardly suffer when key men like
say AWB, Malacia, Shaw & Martinez got injured like this term

ie dalot todibo Kambwala hincapie

That's my line of thinking anyway
 
So aside from hypothetical squad planning, what are the odds of us actually going for this guy and getting him?
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Those are specialists. They don't actually solve anything. You'd rather bring in 2 cbs. A right sider equally confortable at right fullback. And a left side equally comfortable at left back. Like a City I feel our backline would then have actual depth.


For example: (hypotherically)If we had a defence in which:

Dalot. + AWB (RB/LB)
Todibo (Rb, RCB)
Martinez(Lcb, Lb, dm)
Kambwala (rcb, lcb)
Hincapie (Lcb,Lb)
Shaw(Lb, Lcb)
malacia (lb)
You'd have cover incredible depth in defence & would hardly suffer when key men like
say AWB, Malacia, Shaw & Martinez got injured like this term

ie dalot todibo Kambwala hincapie

That's my line of thinking anyway
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Hincapie would be a good idea. However, I don't agree getting a specialist wouldn't solve anything since we could plan with one fix LB, while Luke can cover LB and LCB. If Luke can be rested more often, hopefully he will have less injuries issues.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
He can't. He is already injury prone. The entire point is to get in a player who can upgrade Lindeloff, yet cover Martinez and Shaw to equal degree. Addressing depth issues by adding a single player. If for example we had such a player this season. We wouldn't have missed Martinez, Shaw and Malacia so desperately.
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Of course we'd miss them. Every team in Europe would struggle if their two left backs and left centre back were to get injured, regardless of squad depth.

Let's have a look at the top three in the EPL, as they possibly have the strongest squads:

Arsenal

White/Timber - Salbiba/White - Gabriel/Kiwior - Zincheko/Kiwior

Cedric and Tomiyasu

Man City

Walker/Lewis - Dias/Stones - Akanji/Ake - Gvardiol/Ake

Gomez

Liverpool

TAA/Gomez - Konate/Matip - Quansah/Van Dijk - Robertson/Tsimikas

Bradley

Man Utd

Dalot/Wan-Bissaka - Varane/Maguire - Lindelof/Martinez - Shaw/Malacia

Kambwala and Evans

Now, as I said before, I get that Shaw is injury prone, and maybe it is time to part ways with him, but no one would have foreseen the amount of injuries we've had put up with, especially in the same area, and as you can see above, any team would struggle if they had to put up with that.

Going into next season, I think a RCB and LB will be enough.
 
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