It's a pretty dim argument, Phil Neville got more trophies than Bryan RobsonRVP:
Honours: 2001 - UEFA CUP, 2005 - FA Cup
That was my pointCompare that with Fillipo.
Javier Hernandez | 2011/12 Performances
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I don't think it's quite the no brainer you think it is and the managers selections so far this season would suggest this also. Welbecks pretty much started when fit this season.
Well that's incorrect isn't it, Wellbeck started the season because Hernandez was injured.
Fillipo was winning Champions League's though and starred in one of the 2 finals he started (MOM in one), Phil Neville to Robbo is a preeeeeeeety shite comparison.
This wasn't really the argument though, the argument was, goals are invaluable and Arsenal really would have won more trophies a few years back with a player like Inzaghi.
Well, that's another poor argument, Inzaghi's Serie A record for Milan is only about 1 in 3 while being a passenger (or impediment with his offsides) if he didn't score.
It's really not, as I said, check out Inzaghi's trophy cabinet. And are you telling me that a few years back before RVP started scoring for fun that Arsenal weren't crying out for an out and out goalscorer, because if you are, then you're more deluded than I ever imagined. You created chance after chance in many a game but had no-one to put the ball in the back of the net, creativity wasn't your problem.
Arsenal have never had a problem scoring goals (not that that's got anything to do with the merits of the players under discussion like the 'trophy' argument and your other red herrings).
First things first- i do love Hernandez. I was amazed with what did last season. But the more i watch him the more he frustrates me. I see that he is -in fact- a limted player. He is a lethal poacher, but goes invisble in many games. His link-up play, passing, first touch is ok but nothing more. He doesnt dribble past his markers, he doesnt shoot from distance and yet he scores and provides points. I never been a fan of Welbeck until this season. Imo he offers more to our build up than Hernandez, tries to beat his man in many ways thus is less predictable than our lovely Mexican. I do hope that both learn from each other-as combining them intoone player would give us a top top player. The way i see it - Danny boy should start games to tire the defense and then we should unleash Hernadez who could use his pace ans killer instinct.
I must have imaged all those games where every single viewer, commentator, pundit watched Arsenal create chance after chance and dominate without putting the ball in the net. That cost you plenty of points.
When discussing Arsenal you really aren't worthwhile storey.
What about the Liverpool and City match. He wasn't injured then when Welbeck started ahead of him.
Arsenal never had any problems with scoring goals. Before Van Persie, Adebayor, Arshavin, Fabregas etc all shared the scoring burden effectively. It's their goalkeeper and defence which has been the problem besides I'm not sure if a player like Hernandez will fit in Arsenal's style of play.
Well that's because he was in decent form, obviously. He had the chance to get into good form because of Hernadez injury.
That was only after Welbeck had returned from being a month out
It doesn't change my point.
John Hartson: Arsenal need a 25 goals a season striker | Arsenal Blog & Arsenal News
I can find another 100 examples or more of Arsenal fans, football pundits etc talking about Arsenal's need for a man to put the ball in the back of the net over the past few seasons.
You need to check the goals scored column for the last 10 league seasons rather than get carried away by listening to Chris Waddle. As I was saying this isn't anything to do with Arsenal...
I must have imaged all those games where every single viewer, commentator, pundit watched Arsenal create chance after chance and dominate without putting the ball in the net. That cost you plenty of points.
When discussing Arsenal you really aren't worthwhile storey.
Trumps my Chris Waddle with John Hartson.You'd think Hernandez would have started then if it was all about selecting the greater goal threat. We'll know a bit more in the next few weeks/months but I think it's still very much up for grabs between the two as both offer us something very different.
Nothing to do with Chris Waddle or John Hartson, it's to do with me watching games, especially home games and thinking, feck me these feckers play great stuff but don't put the ball in the back of the net. This led to many a dropped point. If you can't remember this problem yourself you're bonkers.
i'm sure hernandez will frustrate you less and less as he continues to develop. He even said in an interview his instructions are to play on the shoulder of the last defender at the moment. Ferguson has also said that he needs to improve the technical bit of his game. It will come with time. As he's integrating it, there will be some frustrating moments. He's at the right club to improve and he also the work ethic and determination to improve. Sky's the limit for this kid
His seasons been stop start as we know but what he's shown is he's the real deal. This isn't second season syndrome. He's still a young player and yesterdays goal isn't the first and won't be the last vital goal he gets for us. Yes he is limited to a degree but his goal threats as good as anyone.
Sounds a bit like a horse-faced player I used to hate (who just so happened to be an absolutely incredible striker)...
He wouldn't, at least with this current set-up. We'd have to drop a player and probably push Van Persie further back to accommodate a player like Hernandez.
Well why appeal to this sort of idiot for justification? Whatever your perception of games the facts are we score plenty of goals. Of course, this has nothing to do with Hernandez.
Ideally the rest of the team would up their game and start providing him with decent service, the lad's form is dependent on the service he gets. At the moment I think we're just trying to play certain players into form as once it clicks we'll be lethal once again.
Just to show you that there's many people who think the same.
You had plenty of 0-0's or 1-1 whilst creating dozens more chances than the opposition, that was your problem. I'm sure the stats look fine do to good wins in the games you won, it doesn't change the fact that before RVP turned superhuman an Inzaghi would've done a cracking job for you.
The reason Welbeck started that first game is irrelevant when it comes to the current pecking order. Ever since the season opener, Fergie seems to have preferred Welbeck, when both are available. We've no reason to think anything has changed his mind on this. Yesterday's performance certainly won't have.
Horse faced? How Ruud of you!
()I think Chicharito's limits as a player are overstated. Admittedly I like him but I am not blind to his fault. He is not O Fenomeno Ronaldo or the kind of striker who seems to be able to do it all but by the same token he is not some kind of goal poaching carthorse either.
I think his play with his back to goal is actually quite good for a little man and he seems to win a fair percentage of aerial balls against big defenders. I've seen him win more than a few knock downs to Rooney since he became a first XI striker. Plus, the ball does stick to him more than it used to and he wins us a fair amount of free kicks as a result e.g. vs Galati away. Every so often he pulls a great pass out of the bag e.g. vs Everton away to Welbeck which shows the player he might be with time and more confidence.
He's a young guy still getting used to the Premier League after 2 years ago coming close to quitting football cos he couldn't get into the Chivas team. Lets give the guy a break, eh? His development from that point has already been exponential. I've no doubt he'll get even better.
I wouldn't be so sure about that, in a tight game with virtually zero chances Hernandez was the match winner once again.
Horse faced? How Ruud of you!
I think Chicharito's limits as a player are overstated. Admittedly I like him but I am not blind to his fault. He is not O Fenomeno Ronaldo or the kind of striker who seems to be able to do it all but by the same token he is not some kind of goal poaching carthorse either.
I think his play with his back to goal is actually quite good for a little man and he seems to win a fair percentage of aerial balls against big defenders. I've seen him win more than a few knock downs to Rooney since he became a first XI striker. Plus, the ball does stick to him more than it used to and he wins us a fair amount of free kicks as a result e.g. vs Galati away. Every so often he pulls a great pass out of the bag e.g. vs Everton away to Welbeck which shows the player he might be with time and more confidence.
He's a young guy still getting used to the Premier League after 2 years ago coming close to quitting football cos he couldn't get into the Chivas team. Lets give the guy a break, eh? His development from that point has already been exponential. I've no doubt he'll get even better.
Finally a decent post regarding Hernandez all round game!
The point is that playing with a front five + a passenger means you don't create many chances - see Man Utd yesterday.
Hernandez wasn't the problem yesterday, our wingers were. (our attacking mid Giggs also had a very off game, the only time he did something decent, Hernandez was there to win the game.)
Horse faced? How Ruud of you!
I think Chicharito's limits as a player are overstated. Admittedly I like him but I am not blind to his fault. He is not O Fenomeno Ronaldo or the kind of striker who seems to be able to do it all but by the same token he is not some kind of goal poaching carthorse either.
I think his play with his back to goal is actually quite good for a little man and he seems to win a fair percentage of aerial balls against big defenders. I've seen him win more than a few knock downs to Rooney since he became a first XI striker. Plus, the ball does stick to him more than it used to and he wins us a fair amount of free kicks as a result e.g. vs Galati away. Every so often he pulls a great pass out of the bag e.g. vs Everton away to Welbeck which shows the player he might be with time and more confidence.
He's a young guy still getting used to the Premier League after 2 years ago coming close to quitting football cos he couldn't get into the Chivas team. Lets give the guy a break, eh? His development from that point has already been exponential. I've no doubt he'll get even better.
Said it better than I ever could
It didn't help that a few times when we did actually play some good stuff, it broke down as soon as Hernandez got the ball.
It was strange as he actually did some great little link-up early in the match, as I distinctly remember thinking around the 15 minute mark or so that his all-round play had really improved lately. But after that he struggled quite a lot at linking up with others.
We know the likes of Nani and Giggs had off games and will play a hell of a lot better. With Hernandez it is more of an actual limitation of what he is capable of. He's getting better, and obviously his strength of actually putting the ball in the back of the net is unmatched in our squad. In the majority of games that strength more than makes up for his weaknesses. But occasionally we have matches (like the final 75 minutes or so of yesterdays match) where a more rounded player would likely have helped the team as a whole play better.
He's still young and he's obviously working on it and getting better, so hopefully in a few years he'll be combining that blinding speed and goal threat with a better ability to link-up with other players.
Actually RvP scores a lot of goals. He's scored 13 goals in the league, your other 3 strikers / forwards have scored 4 in total (Walcott with 2, and Mopheads got 2 as well).
So, basically Arsenal is chugging along because RvP hasn't broken down yet and he's having the streak of his life. I expect it to end soon though. Everyone knows once winter sets in Arsenal start to fade. The gloves come out and your lot shrivel up to the challenge.
Don't forget the snoods too
He's scored 13 of our 18 PL goals away from home since he's joined and that has resulted in 8 wins, a draw and a loss. I don't care how limited he is if he continues to win us so many matches.
this works for me - limited , yes like every striker in the world. there aren't many "complete" strikers in the world right now. if he makes the keeper bend over the pick the ball out of the back of the net 20+ times a year , limited is ok with me.
I specifically said "I can't complain" to avoid comments like this. Yes, I do think he had a poor game aside from the goal, I don't think that is too outrageous of a statement. But, "I can't complain" about it because in the end he did score our winner. Just because someone scores the winning goal doesn't mean they are excused from all criticism.
He hasn't really improved outside of the box - in it he's a predator, but he'll need to show more in terms of link-up play, or else this Welbeck fella will take his place.
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