Jarrad Branthwaite

[SilentWitness]

Exactly! The way they’re going on it’s as if they’ve got prime Baresi on their hands. Also if he’s as good as they say why is no one else queuing up to drop £70m down on the table?

It's not really like that at all. It's more the fact that he's one of our only high potential sellable assets and he ticks a lot of boxes for the PL in that he's English and HG. When a club doesn't want to sell a player, the price is going to be high and when the club is also seemingly over the PSR issues, the price is going to be of a value which is a too good to turn down type deal. We obviously have set that price as our too good to turn down value.

We don't want to sell and we don't care if other people think he's good or not. He's been great for us and therefore we will keep him until we get that too good to turn down offer.

 

[devilish]

Not a chance.

Why not? He played as LB before, he's reasonably fast and he's got an excellent distribution of the ball. On the other hand he's not very good in air which is a bigger issue as CB then as a LB + he lacks that physical frame that most EPL defender has. Between Jarrad (6ft4 and by far the best in air out of the lot), De Ligt (very good in air but the slower of the lot) and Martinez it does look a non brainer to me. Martinez will play in a similar role to what Blind (5ft11) played at Ajax and tiny Timber play at Arsenal.

 

[RuudTom83]

Would Everton not be interested in any of Maguire/Lindelof/AWB?

I know the usual response of wages will be an issue, but I'm sure a solution could be found especially when those 3 only have 1-2 seasons left on their contracts.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Why not? He played as LB before, he's reasonably fast and he's got an excellent distribution of the ball. On the other hand he's not very good in air which is a bigger issue as CB then as a LB + he lacks that physical frame that most EPL defender has. Between Jarrad (6ft4 and by far the best in air out of the lot), De Ligt (very good in air but the slower of the lot) and Martinez it does look a non brainer to me. Martinez will play in a similar role to what Blind (5ft11) played at Ajax and tiny Timber play at Arsenal.

Because Martinez best position is at CB and his ball playing ability is lost at LB. He doesn't have the speed or attacking nouse to be playing as a left back that needs to get up and down the wing.

His height hasn't really been much of an issue and he doesn't need a 'physical frame'. He's never once been bullied off the ball and 99% of the time he has won his physical duels.

What is the point in moving a player that is best played at CB. Shoehorning him at LB would be a massive mistake.

Martinez would not play a role similar to Blind at Ajax because that ETH doesn't want United to play like Ajax.

 

[devilish]

Not a chance Martinez moves to LB



Because Martinez best position is at CB and his ball playing ability is lost at LB. He doesn't have the speed or attacking nouse to be playing as a left back that needs to get up and down the wing.

His height hasn't really been much of an issue and he doesn't need a 'physical frame'. He's never once been bullied off the ball and 99% of the time he has won his physical duels.

What is the point in moving a player that is best played at CB. Shoehorning him at LB would be a massive mistake.

- Having a 5ft9 CB defending corners is an issue. The guy is shorter then Gary Neville. In his absence inches must come from somewhere else which, most of the case, involve McT. We can't keep on playing players just because they are tall. It's silly.
- Physicality is an issue as well. He might not be bullied but having to constantly go head to head against 6ft3 players is taxing on the body.
- Martinez had played as LB, ETH had played with converted CB as full backs (Blind) and tiny Timber is playing as LB. To move Jarrad as LB with his 6ft4 frame would be stupid. Hence if he comes then Martinez moves as LB.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

It's not really like that at all. It's more the fact that he's one of our only high potential sellable assets and he ticks a lot of boxes for the PL in that he's English and HG. When a club doesn't want to sell a player, the price is going to be high and when the club is also seemingly over the PSR issues, the price is going to be of a value which is a too good to turn down type deal. We obviously have set that price as our too good to turn down value.

We don't want to sell and we don't care if other people think he's good or not. He's been great for us and therefore we will keep him until we get that too good to turn down offer.

That’s completely understandable, he’s your prize asset and obviously you’ll want to keep hold of him. You’ve set a price that will either turn clubs off or give you a very big payday if they’re willing to bite. I just get the sense from that other Everton poster that they’re almost pissed off that we’re not just caving in and bowing to Everton’s demands like we may have previously.

 

[croadyman]

If we are going for Branthwaite, I wouldnt be suprised if we stop pursuing a LB, since he can also play there.

Still feel we need to sign LB as Malacia has been out for a year and Shaw is constantly getting injuries

 

[The holy trinity 68]

- Having a 5ft9 CB defending corners is an issue. The guy is shorter then Gary Neville. In his absence inches must come from somewhere else which, most of the case, involve McT. We can't keep on playing players just because they are tall. It's silly.
- Physicality is an issue as well. He might not be bullied but having to constantly go head to head against 6ft3 players is taxing on the body.
- Martinez had played as LB, ETH had played with converted CB as full backs (Blind) and tiny Timber is playing as LB. To move Jarrad as LB with his 6ft4 frame would be stupid. Hence if he comes then Martinez moves as LB.

Sigh. You sound like Carragher. Martinez proved in the season before his injury and even in games such as the FA Cup final that his height doesn't even matter. What he is good at far outweighs the issue of his height.

If Branthwaite comes, I can guarantee he will be a rotation option not a starter, and Martinez will play at CB when fit.

Martinez is one of the best CB's in the world, and top 3 ball playing CB. Martinez is too good at being a ball playing CB to be shifted out to the left .

Also did you just ignore the point that ETH himself has even said he won't play like Ajax in the PL, so no Martinez would not play the role of Blind.

 

[croadyman]

That’s completely understandable, he’s your prize asset and obviously you’ll want to keep hold of him. You’ve set a price that will either turn clubs off or give you a very big payday if they’re willing to bite. I just get the sense from that other Everton poster that they’re almost pissed off that we’re not just caving in and bowing to Everton’s demands like we may have previously.

Yeah there is no doubt under the previous structure (well if we can call it that) we would have probably caved and paid the £70m Everton want

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

Sigh. You sound like Carragher. Martinez proved in the season before his injury and even in games such as the FA Cup final that his height doesn't even matter. What he is good at far outweighs the issue of his height.

i thought this argument was killed off already, people forget that probably the greatest club side ever, Peps Barca had Mascherano at CB and he is even shorter than Lisandro, if you are good enough you are tall enough.

 

[Maluco]

Club need to learn from predecessors and move on quickly in these situations. There is so much ground to cover.

We need, as in non-negotiable, 2 CBs, 2 CMs and an attacker at the very least. It could be argued that an RB/LB is on that essential list too.

Money is tight and the squad needs a lot of work. 70 million pounds on one player isn’t feasible, Everton aren’t up for negotiating and don’t need to sell, so time to walk away.

Get de Ligt, Ugarte and Zirzkee done and start to look at other options and think about players we can get fees for.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Club need to learn from predecessors and move on quickly in these situations. There is so much ground to cover.

We need, as in non-negotiable, 2 CBs, 2 CMs and an attacker at the very least. It could be argued that an RB/LB is on that essential list too.

Money is tight and the squad needs a lot of work. 70 million pounds on one player isn’t feasible, Everton aren’t up for negotiating and don’t need to sell, so time to walk away.

Get de Ligt, Ugarte and Zirzkee done and start to look at other options.

You have to imagine that’s probably what they are doing to be fair.

 

[croadyman]

Club need to learn from predecessors and move on quickly in these situations. There is so much ground to cover.

We need, as in non-negotiable, 2 CBs, 2 CMs and an attacker at the very least. It could be argued that an RB/LB is on that essential list too.

Money is tight and the squad needs a lot of work. 70 million pounds on one player isn’t feasible, Everton aren’t up for negotiating and don’t need to sell, so time to walk away.

Get de Ligt, Ugarte and Zirzkee done and start to look at other options.

Haven't heard any serious talk whatsoever of us signing 2 CM's, however that might be due to the fact it's dependent on selling a couple

 

[Uncle Mainoo]

Think we will get him at the backend of the window after he kicks up enough of a fuss.

It’s worth holding out and not walking away. We are covered by purchasing De Ligt.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

i thought this argument was killed off already, people forget that probably the greatest club side ever, Peps Barca had Mascherano at CB and he is even shorter than Lisandro, if you are good enough you are tall enough.

Sadly these disproven narratives will always continue if someone wants to use the narrative to fit their argument.

 

[croadyman]

Think we will get him at the backend of the window after he kicks up enough of a fuss.

It’s worth holding out and not walking away. We are covered by purchasing De Ligt.

Yeah or go for pure LCB like Inacio at Sporting

 

[Maluco]

Haven't heard any serious talk whatsoever of us signing 2 CM's, however that might be due to the fact it's dependent on selling a couple

I would assume the club is maintaining the posture that Casemiro is in their plans so the Saudi’s pay a big fee. I would also like to see McTominey sold because he doesn’t contribute as a midfielder.

It would be a big mistake to go into such a long season expecting Mainoo (and Garnacho) to play so many games. We definitely need another option in midfield. It just wasn’t functional last season.

 

[sparx99]

Not a chance Martinez moves to LB.

A lot of players have been nominally playing LB but they tuck into a back three. The same way City use Gvardiol or Ake at LB.

 

[sparx99]

Still feel we need to sign LB as Malacia has been out for a year and Shaw is constantly getting injuries

Malacia & Shaw should both be back though and Amass is considered a huge prospect. If we did sign another LCB like Branthwaite then worst case we would have cover in Shaw, Malacia, Amass, Dalot, Martinez and Branthwaite who could all play there.

 

[Uncle Mainoo]

Yeah or go for pure LCB like Inacio at Sporting

In principle it makes sense but he’s more suited to the left side only from what I can see even when paired as a 3.

On the other hand Branthwaite can play left and right. Not sure as part of a 3 but I think he would give us more flexibility than Inacio. I think a British defender is also more of a requirement if we purchase De Ligt. It’s important to have that core.

 

[davidmichael]

Good. If we went into next season with Martinez, de Ligt, Branthwaite, Evans and Kambwala as our CB options it’d be ideal.

Move Lindelof and Maguire on.

This is my thinking too as De Ligt and Martinez would be the first choice pair with Branthwaite first choice back then Kambwala and Evans also around to fill in but anything that’s brought in for Maguire and Lindelof would be profit as both have had their transfer fees paid off in full and I reckon they’d bring in a combined £50 million.

 

[caid]

Apparently we've told you its £70m in one lump now or £90m over 3 years.

neither of which you can afford i presume

Doubt it. Not without a pile of sales for good prices which we aren't very good at. I think theres too many options in the 50m range for us to go that far anyway.

 

[croadyman]

In principle it makes sense but he’s more suited to the left side only from what I can see even when paired as a 3.

On the other hand Branthwaite can play left and right. Not sure as part of a 3 but I think he would give us more flexibility than Inacio. I think a British defender is also more of a requirement if we purchase De Ligt. It’s important to have that core.

Yeah he definitely offers flexibility

 

[El-Manos]

Apparently we've told you its £70m in one lump now or £90m over 3 years.

neither of which you can afford i presume

Afford ? I’m sure they can afford it. Whether they should pay that is a different matter altogether.

 

[croadyman]

I would assume the club is maintaining the posture that Casemiro is in their plans so the Saudi’s pay a big fee. I would also like to see McTominey sold because he doesn’t contribute as a midfielder.

It would be a big mistake to go into such a long season expecting Mainoo (and Garnacho) to play so many games. We definitely need another option in midfield. It just wasn’t functional last season.

Yeah I would hope McTominay is sold too so we can free up space for two midfield signings

 

[devilish]

Sigh. You sound like Carragher. Martinez proved in the season before his injury and even in games such as the FA Cup final that his height doesn't even matter. What he is good at far outweighs the issue of his height.

If Branthwaite comes, I can guarantee he will be a rotation option not a starter, and Martinez will play at CB when fit.

Martinez is one of the best CB's in the world, and top 3 ball playing CB. Martinez is too good at being a ball playing CB to be shifted out to the left .

Also did you just ignore the point that ETH himself has even said he won't play like Ajax in the PL, so no Martinez would not play the role of Blind.

We were discussing a scenario where one between the 3 CBs ends up as a LB. That's a reasonable scenario to explore considering that Jarrad and De Ligt would probably cost us around 90m between them which leaves little money for a LB as well. I also believe that we can exclude the idea of having a 50m-60m new signing sitting on the bench. He's probably the most expensive player we're buying this summer and he was our no 1 target as CB.

Martinez and De Ligt have similar characteristics. They are excellent passers of the ball, they are aggressive and they are born leaders. De Ligt is better in air at 1.8 in aerial duels but on those terms he's more of a Saliba then a Maguire. Martinez on the other hand is slightly quicker. The main concern (and almost everyone is speaking about it) is the lack of pace this CB pair will have and how they would struggle in aerial duels. That's why Jarrad makes it the ideal partner for either of them. He's extremely mobile, he's tall and he's physical. His weakness (ie passing) will be covered by either of them really.

So why would Martinez move as LB rather then De Ligt?

- unlike Martinez, De Ligt had never played as LB
- he offers far better aerial cover then Martinez did. A De Ligt-Jarrad combo will release us from having to play a tall midfielder.

 

[caid]

We were discussing a scenario where one between the 3 CBs ends up as a LB. That's a reasonable scenario to explore considering that Jarrad and De Ligt would probably cost us around 90m between them which leaves little money for a LB as well. I also believe that we can exclude the idea of having a 50m-60m new signing sitting on the bench. He's probably the most expensive player we're buying this summer and he was our no 1 target as CB.

Martinez and De Ligt have similar characteristics. They are excellent passers of the ball, they are aggressive and they are born leaders. De Ligt is better in air at 1.8 in aerial duels but on those terms he's more of a Saliba then a Maguire. Martinez on the other hand is slightly quicker. The main concern (and almost everyone is speaking about it) is the lack of pace this CB pair will have and how they would struggle in aerial duels. That's why Jarrad makes it the ideal partner for either of them. He's extremely mobile, he's tall and he's physical. His weakness (ie passing) will be covered by either of them really.

So why would Martinez move as LB rather then De Ligt?

- unlike Martinez, De Ligt had never played as LB
- he offers far better aerial cover then Martinez did. A De Ligt-Jarrad combo will release us from having to play a tall midfielder.

Why not Jarrad at LB?
Anyway i think this one is done and dusted. I dont see us having the budget to tempt them even if we wanted to. We shouldn't want to when players like De Ligt are half the price.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Scares me every time I see this bumped! Please no signing this guy. Who on earth is scouting for United these days?

 

[cpleigh]

That’s completely understandable, he’s your prize asset and obviously you’ll want to keep hold of him. You’ve set a price that will either turn clubs off or give you a very big payday if they’re willing to bite. I just get the sense from that other Everton poster that they’re almost pissed off that we’re not just caving in and bowing to Everton’s demands like we may have previously.

I'm not pissed off. I don't want to sell him.
What's pissed us off is a low ball bid then trying to use the press to say he's agitated etc and your minority owner trying to give it the Tony soprano act.

How would you react if real Madrid came in with a £25m bid for mainoo and then used the press and Perez started saying stuff like..

'european football needs to be careful not to annoy us cos we are bigger than everyone'

 

[cpleigh]

Afford ? I’m sure they can afford it. Whether they should pay that is a different matter altogether.

Doubtful with PSR and the other glaring issues in your side.

 

[Solius]

Doubtful with PSR and the other glaring issues in your side.

It’s being reported than as of the new financial year we’ve lost the ‘worst’ one of the three year rolling period so we are decent again. People who’ve analysed it have said we could spend up to 400m (amortised obviously) if we wanted. So it’s likely we could afford it if we really wanted but we’re clearly changing tack this summer and not being baited into paying over the odds.

 

[caid]

I'm not pissed off. I don't want to sell him.
What's pissed us off is a low ball bid then trying to use the press to say he's agitated etc and your minority owner trying to give it the Tony soprano act.

How would you react if real Madrid came in with a £25m bid for mainoo and then used the press and Perez started saying stuff like..

'european football needs to be careful not to annoy us cos we are bigger than everyone'

Yeah Ratcliffe comes off as a bit of a knob. Hopefully he'll shut up and disappear into the background now others are in place. The 2nd part of your post sounds pretty standard fare for Real, they'd go further and call it slavery though.
I don't think 35-45 is a low ball offer though. In a world where De Ligt is 45 that sounds pretty fair. I guess i'd expect to pay loads of random extortionate extra's on top for United tax, PL to PL tax, English player tax. But i dont think any of them are especially fair or reasonable. That's your prerogative obviously - you have no good reason to be fair or reasonable.

 

[devilish]

Why not Jarrad at LB?
Anyway i think this one is done and dusted. I dont see us having the budget to tempt them even if we wanted to. We shouldn't want to when players like De Ligt are half the price.

I've already explained why in previous posts. Please read them up if you're still interested. Basically its down to aerial prowess and pace, something that De Ligt and Martinez combo do not provide to a high level as a pairing

 

[Teja]

I've already explained why in previous posts. Please read them up if you're still interested. Basically its down to aerial prowess and pace, something that De Ligt and Martinez combo do not provide to a high level as a pairing

What do you make of the Inacio links? They seemed to have died down now but I thought he'd be the prototype LCB / LB type player that you're describing. I assumed we'd make a 3 with Martinez in the middle to use his passing ability with Inacio and whoever we got for the right center back (De Ligt it turned out) as the defenders who covered the wide spaces.

You could make the three like: Inacio -- Martinez -- De Ligt or Martinez -- Branthwaite -- De Ligt but I think the former better suits the players. It's also a straight swap whenever Shaw is fit so we don't need to chop and change the dynamic to get him in the side.

 

[caid]

I've already explained why in previous posts. Please read them up if you're still interested. Basically its down to aerial prowess and pace, something that De Ligt and Martinez combo do not provide to a high level as a pairing

Yeah, sorry. I dont think it'll happen so i'll just let it go.

 

[Leftback99]

Sadly these disproven narratives will always continue if someone wants to use the narrative to fit their argument.

When clearly we are weak on set pieces and Ten Hag himself admits Martinez isn't strong at heading then it does nothing to disprove the 'narrative'.

 

[devilish]

What do you make of the Inacio links? They seemed to have died down now but I thought he'd be the prototype LCB / LB type player that you're describing. I assumed we'd make a 3 with Martinez in the middle to use his passing ability with Inacio and whoever we got for the right center back (De Ligt it turned out) as the defenders who covered the wide spaces.

You could make the three like: Inacio -- Martinez -- De Ligt or Martinez -- Branthwaite -- De Ligt but I think the former better suits the players. It's also a straight swap whenever Shaw is fit so we don't need to chop and change the dynamic to get him in the side.

I don't watch Portuguese football enough to give an educated opinion on this however I don't think that ETH wants a 3 CB defense. I very much doubt that anyone wants to touch Shaw at this point in time either. He's been injured for far too time at this point.

Many underestimate how important someone whose good in air is in the EPL. Liverpool has absolute beasts in Van Dijk (3.8) in aerial duel won, Konate (3.1) and Quansah (2,3). Arsenal has Saliba (6ft4), White (6ft1), Tomiyasu (6ft2) and Magalhães (6ft3). City aren't as imposing but most of their defenders are 6ft+ tall. The converted CB is not a novel thing either. ETH did it at Ajax, Arsenal look set to do it with Timber (Ben White can play as CB as well) etc.

I believe that ETH had ignored that aspect at first. Martinez (5ft9) and Malacia (5ft7) were introduced in a high line defense that poorly suited the only beast we have in aerial duels (ie Maguire). That placed too much pressure on Varane, Shaw and Dalot with only Varane being 6ft3. With Shaw gone due to injury more pressure ETH had to choose between compromising the high line thus reintroducing Maguire or play McT to help out. Either option was a poor solution to the problem.

In my opinion this issue is now being addressed. De Ligt is 6ft2 and is better in aerial duels then Varane is. Casemiro is set to be replaced by another 6ft player in Ugarte. If we add Jarrad then we'll getting a 6ft4 CB whose better n aerial prowess then the likes of De Ligt, Varane and Stones let alone the likes of Martinez. Hence why I can see us returning for Jarrad. He offers a certain mobility and ability in aerial duels none of our current defenders can provide. He would also end our reliance on McT as well.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I don't watch Portuguese football enough to give an educated opinion on this however I don't think that ETH wants a 3 CB defense. I very much doubt that anyone wants to touch Shaw at this point in time either. He's been injured for far too time at this point.

Many underestimate how important someone whose good in air is in the EPL. Liverpool has absolute beasts in Van Dijk (3.8) in aerial duel won, Konate (3.1) and Quansah (2,3). Arsenal has Saliba (6ft4), White (6ft1), Tomiyasu (6ft2) and Magalhães (6ft3). City aren't as imposing but most of their defenders are 6ft+ tall. The converted CB is not a novel thing either. ETH did it at Ajax, Arsenal look set to do it with Timber (Ben White can play as CB as well) etc.

I believe that ETH had ignored that aspect at first. Martinez (5ft9) and Malacia (5ft7) were introduced in a high line defense that poorly suited the only beast we have in aerial duels (ie Maguire). That placed too much pressure on Varane, Shaw and Dalot with only Varane being 6ft3. With Shaw gone due to injury more pressure ETH had to choose between compromising the high line thus reintroducing Maguire or play McT to help out. Either option was a poor solution to the problem.

In my opinion this issue is now being addressed. De Ligt is 6ft2 and is better in aerial duels then Varane is. Casemiro is set to be replaced by another 6ft player in Ugarte. If we add Jarrad then we'll getting a 6ft4 CB whose better n aerial prowess then the likes of De Ligt, Varane and Stones let alone the likes of Martinez. Hence why I can see us returning for Jarrad. He offers a certain mobility and ability in aerial duels none of our current defenders can provide. He would also end our reliance on McT as well.

I've not watched much of de Ligt so I cannot say for sure based on the eye test but statistically Varane is streets ahead, which is why your comment here is surprising because you've used a lot of stats.

Agree with the general sentiment of needing more physicality and aerial prowess though.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I would assume the club is maintaining the posture that Casemiro is in their plans so the Saudi’s pay a big fee. I would also like to see McTominey sold because he doesn’t contribute as a midfielder.

It would be a big mistake to go into such a long season expecting Mainoo (and Garnacho) to play so many games. We definitely need another option in midfield. It just wasn’t functional last season.

What’s a big fee?

The league has never paid more than £25m for anyone over 30. They will not start with Casemiro.

 

[Baneofthegame]

What’s a big fee?

The league has never paid more than £25m for anyone over 30. They will not start with Casemiro.

Neymar?