Jarrad Branthwaite


I think the tweet is slightly misleading. Van Nistelrooij said that Branthwaite along with several other players allowed him to play a higher defensive line. And he does mention that Branthwaite is a strong defender and can defend in 1v1s quite well and he also mentions Branthwaite being good enough on the ball.

I watched the game and Branthwaite did his job but Ajax dominated the ball in possession and if I'm not mistaken they had over 60% off the possession. And the PSV CB who was most active in possession was a player called Ramalho. And it was very obvious to see that the Ajax CBs were technically superior in possession. Jurrien Timber especially was the stand out CB on the pitch as far as ability on the ball is concerned. I think that's the level we should look for on the ball

I don't have a issue with Branthwaite as far as what he can do out of possession. He's got the pace and power to win duels but the question mark over him is his ability on the ball for a team that wants to dominate the ball against the opponent's press. I think for the money Everton will want, there's better options around Europe who tick both boxes as far being strong in the duel and also having higher potential ability on the ball.

If you want to dominate the game on the ball, then go out and sign players who are showing a high technical ability on the ball without compromising on pace and athleticism. Those players are out there imo and I believe we should look for solutions who tick all the boxes as far as his we want to dominate the ball with and without the ball.
 
@SilentWitness

Mate, Ive been watching some highlights of Brantwaithe.

If i had to compare him to a ex United player it would actually be Nemanja Vidic.

He seems like a defender who is physically a complete monster who is going to get down and dirty to block 'the attack'. Slide tackling, progressive tackles, using his head etc.

I feel like people might be wanting the next Rio Ferdinand though and may not be seeing the benefit for that Vidic type defender.

Do you agree? He can make passes but he isnt Lisandro Martinez either, he is more there for the defensive ability than the ball playing ability.

Seems like a Vidic with the height of Mertersacker - which is actually quite scary!
Id actually have Martínez down as being more like Vidic. So we do need to find another Ferdinand. Martinez is a warrior like Vidic, he has that hardness about him. Ain’t afraid to put his body anywhere.
 
I think the tweet is slightly misleading. Van Nistelrooij said that Branthwaite along with several other players allowed him to play a higher defensive line. And he does mention that Branthwaite is a strong defender and can defend in 1v1s quite well and he also mentions Branthwaite being good enough on the ball.

I watched the game and Branthwaite did his job but Ajax dominated the ball in possession and if I'm not mistaken they had over 60% off the possession. And the PSV CB who was most active in possession was a player called Ramalho. And it was very obvious to see that the Ajax CBs were technically superior in possession. Jurrien Timber especially was the stand out CB on the pitch as far as ability on the ball is concerned. I think that's the level we should look for on the ball

I don't have a issue with Branthwaite as far as what he can do out of possession. He's got the pace and power to win duels but the question mark over him is his ability on the ball for a team that wants to dominate the ball against the opponent's press. I think for the money Everton will want, there's better options around Europe who tick both boxes as far being strong in the duel and also having higher potential ability on the ball.

If you want to dominate the game on the ball, then go out and sign players who are showing a high technical ability on the ball without compromising on pace and athleticism. Those players are out there imo and I believe we should look for solutions who tick all the boxes as far as his we want to dominate the ball with and without the ball.
I always find your posts interesting. I am curious would you consider Jean-Clair Todibo one such CB?
He is right sided from memory but i feel we need both a LCB and a RCB this summer.

Thanks
 
He's very young. I have doubts, think i might give more credit to tarkowski of the pair but think he could be a very good option to have. The price needs to be right. Its risky and were not in a great position to be taking gambles. I'm not sure he'd be on my radar at all if everton weren't broke and you weren't looking through their squad for bargains.
I'd like us to get 2 centre backs and he'd be the less important of the 2 as well. He'd be more depth where as i'd be hoping / expecting the other guy to start every week.
 
Id actually have Martínez down as being more like Vidic. So we do need to find another Ferdinand. Martinez is a warrior like Vidic, he has that hardness about him. Ain’t afraid to put his body anywhere.
Tobido would be the Ferdinand in this scenario. Though I don't think INEOS want their first transfer to be from a team they already own. Optics and all.
 
I always find your posts interesting. I am curious would you consider Jean-Clair Todibo one such CB?
He is right sided from memory but i feel we need both a LCB and a RCB this summer.

Thanks
I have mentioned Todibo on here many times over the years. The first time I mentioned him as a potential signing was when he was playing for Toulouse as a teenager. I think he's definitely got the ability to be a very good player for a team that wants to play out from the back and also defend higher up the pitch in 1v1 situations. He's a very strong channel defender with good technical ability and can also be utilised as a RB who can invert inside and form a 3 man back-line when we're in possession. I wanted us to sign him in the summer transfer window of 2023, as the quoted post below mentions.

I first mentioned Todibo on here when he was still playing for Toulouse as a teenager. He ended up at Barca, and in his own words (tweet below) he let himself down at Barca, but is now a more mature player.

I don't think Varane should be a undisputed starter in a years time. I think there's better suited players who we should target for the way ten Hag wants to play. And Todibo does fit that profile and at 23 years of age I think it's now time for him to once again back his ability to compete with Varane for a place in the first 11.



I think the criticism people have of him is his lack of ability in the air. And even that can be improved imo. But as far as how the game has developed in England in the last 5 to 10 years, aerial ability for a CB isn't as important as it once was. Arsenal the season just gone had a CB pairing who were pretty average when it comes to winning aerial duels, but they had the best defensive record in the league.

I think as far as I'm concerned, we should focus on improving our ability on the ball by signing players who have the ability in possession. Ideally you sign a CB who ticks all the boxes and is also aerially dominant, but we might not have that option, and the options might be a choice between a player who is aerially and physically dominant vs a player who is aerially average but physically and technically of a potentially high level. In that scenario the choice for me is the player who is physically and technically of a high level and we can then work around that. If you as a team don't have the capability to control the game in possesion then you're weak technically and will find yourself defending aerial balls far more than a team who is technically capable on the ball. Keeping the ball at a high level is a form of defence that we don't have at the moment but that could change with a good transfer window.

If you draw a circle around the two CBs and the two deeper midfield players. Those positions will need to have a high technical level in possession and also have the ability to control the game in large spaces when playing higher up the pitch. And when you have strong technical players and also strong duellers in those positions, then the GK, Fullbacks, attacking mids and forwards will all bounce off those players. Because when you raise the technical, physical and athletic level in the aforementioned positions at CB and deeper midfield, it will create a stability for the team as a whole to function well as a team where we can then play the game higher up the pitch with the high press being backed up by the players behind them and also have a more fluid build up phase from the back.
 
Its probably already been quoted here in this thread but Stephen Howson had a spot on analysis about some of the flaws he sees in Branthwaite's game. I personally am not sold and think there's better value in prospects like Todibo and Scalvini in Italy. (My preferred cb to partner the Butcher.)
 
A lot comes down to how we want to play moving forwards. Not so much who the manager is, but how we want to play. So I think we will need to sign players who have a lot of the characteristics we want, whilst also having a certain amount of versatility to adapt to different tactical set ups.

We have seen this year that a lot of teams, including some very good ones, have often deployed one or even two cbs in full back positions, because they often shift to 3 at the back during build up, allowing the other full back to push up and provide width; or have one sliding over to make a three at the back, and the other pushing into defensive midfield.

We’ve seen City, for example, often deploy up to four CBs at once, with Gvardiol and Stones sliding over or pushing into DM. Arsenal have played White at RB all season, for the same reason, and he’s been a revelation. As they signed Timber to primarily play as that technical CB in an inverted RB role, roaming into defensive midfield. I also believe it’s why they wanted Martinez, with many reporting they saw him as a LB that would slide over as an auxiliary CB, and/or push into an inverted deep midfield position.

So I think it is good for us to build a squad that allows us to have that sort of flexibility in modern defensive set ups. Having a left sided CB not only acts as cover for Martinez, but it allows Martinez to play that LB/CB/DM role that I think would suit him perfectly. Leaving Dalot to push up high and stay wide on the other side. Martinez has that reading of the game, aggression, and technical on the ball ability that makes him a perfect fit for such a role.

So if we were to sign Brsnthwaite and a more affordable rcb like Todibo, we could go with a back four that was balanced, solid, versatile tactically, and technically proficient in Dalot, Todibo, Branthwaite, and Martinez. I think it plays to the strengths of everyone. You also then have natural cover at LB and LCB in Shaw and Malacia. And RB and Rcb in AWB, Maguire & Kambwala.id expect Lindelof or Maguire to go, depending on fees/wages etc, and in an ideal world you’d upgrade your rcb and back up left back and right back options; but we aren’t likely to be able to do all that in one summer. But just getting in Todibo and Branthwaite dramatically improves our options and versatility in defence. It also brings in players with plenty of potential upside left, with great age profiles.
 
Jarrad Branthwaite is worth 40m max, what has he done? is he an established international? What experience has he in European football? The relatity is if he wasn't English and hyped by the British press then he'd be way down people's list.
 
Jarrad Branthwaite is worth 40m max, what has he done? is he an established international? What experience has he in European football? The relatity is if he wasn't English and hyped by the British press then he'd be way down people's list.

To be honest - three quarters of our fan base want nearly all our english/british players being sold.

1. Rashford
2. Sancho
3. Greenwood
4. Wan Bissaka
5. Maguire
6. Mctominay
7. Shaw as back up in the squad to a new LB

It wouldnt surprise me if Ineos were looking for some British players since we are a British club.

Wharton, Gray, Guehi, Branthwaithe etc.

Seems like the same stuff that was said about Rice.
 
£40 max and 80k (current 40k) a week until he earns a better contract.
 
The quote is similar to Stone’s transfer fee with inflation considered, but how his ball control and passing compare with Stone? Anyone watching him shares some thoughts?
 
He's an odd signing to pair with Martinez as they don't necessarily compliment each other's game well.
Branthwaite (top 18% header win rate) is good in the air not great, Maguire (top 5% header win rate) and Varane (top 1% header win rate) are truely elite In the air. Of course Branthwaite is only 21 and could improve this aspect of his game, but right now, can't expect him to make up for Martinez's (bottom 1% win rate) deficiency in this area, leaving us aerially vulnerable.
The 2nd issue is, they're both left footed. Now I know Branthwaite played RCB before and is decent with his right foot, however, it's just not playing to his strength and I wonder how well he is passing will hold up in that role, under intense pressing.

He'd be a good signing as LCB because he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses, is an excellent duel winner and is young enough to almost guarantee he'll get even better in the future. However, LCB isn't the starting position we're recruiting for...or is it???
Ironically, he might compliment Maguire better than he does Martinez.
 
Its probably already been quoted here in this thread but Stephen Howson had a spot on analysis about some of the flaws he sees in Branthwaite's game. I personally am not sold and think there's better value in prospects like Todibo and Scalvini in Italy. (My preferred cb to partner the Butcher.)

I watched the video he done a few selective clips it was hilarious where was the good clips for balance? He could have done an analysis of his stats at PSV v last season. I guess the results wouldn’t have suited his narrative.

The most glaring omission in the video, is he does not assign a market value to Branthwaite.

“I don’t think he’s worth x“ ok mr stats man based on what? give me an evaluation of the centre half market in the premier league then add home grown premium. Stones + inflation, Fofana Maquire etc.
 
There’s absolutely no point on having a ‘ball-playing’ keeper if the CBs are not good enough on the ball to make use of that style of play.
Martinez transforms us as a team, almost like having an extra midfielder when in possession.
 
To be honest - three quarters of our fan base want nearly all our english/british players being sold.

1. Rashford
2. Sancho
3. Greenwood
4. Wan Bissaka
5. Maguire
6. Mctominay
7. Shaw as back up in the squad to a new LB

It wouldnt surprise me if Ineos were looking for some British players since we are a British club.

Wharton, Gray, Guehi, Branthwaithe etc.

Seems like the same stuff that was said about Rice.
You can't compare Rice and Branthwaithe, one was proven WC where Branthwaithe is not .
Branthwaithe would be a good buy at 40m but a crazy buy at anything else, similar to the price we should have paid for Harry, instead of the inflated price we paid.
I have no problem with keeping some of the English players as squad players but they have no devine right to play due to where they are from. Rashford, Mct, Shaw and Mct won't be leaving this season imo. We have plenty of outstanding English talent coming through.
 
Jarrad Branthwaite is worth 40m max, what has he done? is he an established international? What experience has he in European football? The relatity is if he wasn't English and hyped by the British press then he'd be way down people's list.

This is where we will see INEOS because this transfer stinks. We should go in with £35m and they quote us £60 plus and we walk away, let them deal with their money problems another way.

We have seen alot of players over the years that have a perceived very good season, they get hyped and the price tag is false. Last season Evan Ferguson played well and Brighton wanted 100m, this season no one talking about him.

We dont even need a starting LCB.
 
@SilentWitness

Mate, Ive been watching some highlights of Brantwaithe.

If i had to compare him to a ex United player it would actually be Nemanja Vidic.

He seems like a defender who is physically a complete monster who is going to get down and dirty to block 'the attack'. Slide tackling, progressive tackles, using his head etc.

I feel like people might be wanting the next Rio Ferdinand though and may not be seeing the benefit for that Vidic type defender.

Do you agree? He can make passes but he isnt Lisandro Martinez either, he is more there for the defensive ability than the ball playing ability.

Seems like a Vidic with the height of Mertersacker - which is actually quite scary!
Those type of defenders have gone out of fashion for a reason, and the Rio type is what teams look for.
 
Id actually have Martínez down as being more like Vidic. So we do need to find another Ferdinand. Martinez is a warrior like Vidic, he has that hardness about him. Ain’t afraid to put his body anywhere.
I wouldn't say he's like Vidic at all tbh, he's fast and aggressive, more like a CB version of Rafael.
 
I have mentioned Todibo on here many times over the years. The first time I mentioned him as a potential signing was when he was playing for Toulouse as a teenager. I think he's definitely got the ability to be a very good player for a team that wants to play out from the back and also defend higher up the pitch in 1v1 situations. He's a very strong channel defender with good technical ability and can also be utilised as a RB who can invert inside and form a 3 man back-line when we're in possession. I wanted us to sign him in the summer transfer window of 2023, as the quoted post below mentions.



I think the criticism people have of him is his lack of ability in the air. And even that can be improved imo. But as far as how the game has developed in England in the last 5 to 10 years, aerial ability for a CB isn't as important as it once was. Arsenal the season just gone had a CB pairing who were pretty average when it comes to winning aerial duels, but they had the best defensive record in the league.

I think as far as I'm concerned, we should focus on improving our ability on the ball by signing players who have the ability in possession. Ideally you sign a CB who ticks all the boxes and is also aerially dominant, but we might not have that option, and the options might be a choice between a player who is aerially and physically dominant vs a player who is aerially average but physically and technically of a potentially high level. In that scenario the choice for me is the player who is physically and technically of a high level and we can then work around that. If you as a team don't have the capability to control the game in possesion then you're weak technically and will find yourself defending aerial balls far more than a team who is technically capable on the ball. Keeping the ball at a high level is a form of defence that we don't have at the moment but that could change with a good transfer window.

If you draw a circle around the two CBs and the two deeper midfield players. Those positions will need to have a high technical level in possession and also have the ability to control the game in large spaces when playing higher up the pitch. And when you have strong technical players and also strong duellers in those positions, then the GK, Fullbacks, attacking mids and forwards will all bounce off those players. Because when you raise the technical, physical and athletic level in the aforementioned positions at CB and deeper midfield, it will create a stability for the team as a whole to function well as a team where we can then play the game higher up the pitch with the high press being backed up by the players behind them and also have a more fluid build up phase from the back.
I know that you’ve probably got stats to back it up but Gabriel has always looked useful in the air scored a few from corners.

Todibo, I have an issue with pairing him with Martinez in the PL. unless we are moving to 3 at the back with someone in the middle of them who can win those headers. Otherwise it will always be a vulnerability for us
 
90mil? Yeah right :lol:
These guys supposedly need to sell by end June for PSR?
If so wel get it done for a fair price or move on quickly. They aren't in any position to hold us ransom, they'd be desperate to negotiate not us.
 
We have a great relationship with Everton. We give them player after player for dirt cheap, and they rinse us dry for anyone we look to buy in return.
 
If someone wanted to sign Garnacho, how much would people expect clubs to pay? I doubt it would be 40m.

People seem to think that clubs like Palace, Everton, Brighton etc. should just bend over and let other clubs take all their assets with no issues. Valuations of 60m+ by Everton, Brighton, Palace etc. for their players that are young and good aren't just because of their quality, it includes all other facets that they add in terms of worth. As always, there is a middle ground that can be met and a club that will be willing to pay the fee.

Prior to Stones moving to City there were bids from Chelsea in the 20-30m range and they were told promptly to up that or it's a no. We held firm and got double from City.
 
No problem with the media running this all summer, but it should be a very short meeting at United, Everton want a huge fee, cool, cross him off the list of potential targets.

It's a complete waste of time.

Next!
 
He looks a decent defender who puts a shift in and technically pretty good…but he’s often sliding in, on the floor, last ditch stuff. Might be he’s paying in a wank team but the prices being quoted are non-sensical.
 
I have mentioned Todibo on here many times over the years. The first time I mentioned him as a potential signing was when he was playing for Toulouse as a teenager. I think he's definitely got the ability to be a very good player for a team that wants to play out from the back and also defend higher up the pitch in 1v1 situations. He's a very strong channel defender with good technical ability and can also be utilised as a RB who can invert inside and form a 3 man back-line when we're in possession. I wanted us to sign him in the summer transfer window of 2023, as the quoted post below mentions.



I think the criticism people have of him is his lack of ability in the air. And even that can be improved imo. But as far as how the game has developed in England in the last 5 to 10 years, aerial ability for a CB isn't as important as it once was. Arsenal the season just gone had a CB pairing who were pretty average when it comes to winning aerial duels, but they had the best defensive record in the league.

I think as far as I'm concerned, we should focus on improving our ability on the ball by signing players who have the ability in possession. Ideally you sign a CB who ticks all the boxes and is also aerially dominant, but we might not have that option, and the options might be a choice between a player who is aerially and physically dominant vs a player who is aerially average but physically and technically of a potentially high level. In that scenario the choice for me is the player who is physically and technically of a high level and we can then work around that. If you as a team don't have the capability to control the game in possesion then you're weak technically and will find yourself defending aerial balls far more than a team who is technically capable on the ball. Keeping the ball at a high level is a form of defence that we don't have at the moment but that could change with a good transfer window.

If you draw a circle around the two CBs and the two deeper midfield players. Those positions will need to have a high technical level in possession and also have the ability to control the game in large spaces when playing higher up the pitch. And when you have strong technical players and also strong duellers in those positions, then the GK, Fullbacks, attacking mids and forwards will all bounce off those players. Because when you raise the technical, physical and athletic level in the aforementioned positions at CB and deeper midfield, it will create a stability for the team as a whole to function well as a team where we can then play the game higher up the pitch with the high press being backed up by the players behind them and also have a more fluid build up phase from the back.
Comprehensive as always, Thanks
 
Who is responsible for identifying our transfer targets this summer?

It’s been Ten Hag the last 2 years. Still him?
 
If someone wanted to sign Garnacho, how much would people expect clubs to pay? I doubt it would be 40m.

People seem to think that clubs like Palace, Everton, Brighton etc. should just bend over and let other clubs take all their assets with no issues. Valuations of 60m+ by Everton, Brighton, Palace etc. for their players that are young and good aren't just because of their quality, it includes all other facets that they add in terms of worth. As always, there is a middle ground that can be met and a club that will be willing to pay the fee.

Prior to Stones moving to City there were bids from Chelsea in the 20-30m range and they were told promptly to up that or it's a no. We held firm and got double from City.
I actually agree with this, if you think we can get a promising English CB for 40m they’re in dream land.

60 will end up being a starting point for him.